insomniadreams88

I think my other problem with Oliver telling Susan anything is that if she's competent enough (which she should be, considering her job and the fact that she found a PI who found that Russia photo) and does enough digging, she could uncover information about the rest of the team too. She could look into the people around him and wonder, "Why is his ex-fiancee dropping by the mayor's office (502)" - for all we know, his security detail will tell her anything she wants to know -- "and why is he hanging out with these random three people at the concert and why was he MIA at the same time that his former bodyguard broke out of prison and hmm, that person has just been arrested again, so where has he been all this time?" And IIRC (I don't want to rewatch the scene), didn't he talk to her about someone doing the same job as him but differently when talking about Vigilante after earlier talking about Vigilante with her? Or something like that? I just remember thinking, "So, you're basically telling a reporter that you could also be a vigilante out there? Hmm..." His actions affect those around him - which he knows - and yet, he's still doing things that could, again, affect those around him in a negative way.

Yeah, but this could have been a time when they decided to forget about the Gotcha! moment and instead made their main character, their hero, not look stupid and actually look like someone viewers would want to root for. I still don't get why Human Target looked at Susan and thought, "Hmm, I should hook up the mayor with this reporter." Was she the only female he encountered in Oliver's life other than his sister and figured since Felicity had a boyfriend, Oliver needed a girlfriend too and she was perfect for the job? Why didn't Human Target look into Susan? I'm sure he probably could've discovered that she was digging into Oliver's life. That could have been interesting. Have Human Target warn Oliver, "Hey, this reporter is digging into you." After all, I doubt that one photo is all that there is of Oliver in Russia from back then. Imagine if instead, they had Oliver have to deal with keeping his Bratva past a secret from when he should have been on the island and learning about Prometheus at the same time and being mayor. Maybe then have him talk to Thea and wonder if he should keep Susan close - Thea could've thought it a bad idea and Oliver could've disagreed to have them on opposite sides of the argument.

But that would just be a repeat of the end of S3 when Oliver told Malcolm and not Diggle or Felicity what he was doing. Why not tell someone what he's doing? Even just Thea, since she's the one who's been repeatedly warning him. Then again, considering the show... I wouldn't be surprised. He'd still be stupid. (I don't think this is what's going to happen.)

This bothered me so much. We have no idea how Felicity even met Billy and they don't seem to think that's important enough information to tell us. We don't know how long they were dating. We know that he apparently had a key to the loft (or Felicity just never locked it because she figured people just broke in through the windows anyway?). Even though we met him in 501, by 509, she still had problems calling him her boyfriend and saying his name. At the end of the day, Billy (and TR) deserved better because he'll probably get a couple of mentions in 5B, if that. I wonder if the writers simply looked at it as, "we need to have Felicity not deal with Havenrock in 5A, so what could we have happen to her that could be a distraction and then serve as a gateway to her 5B arc? Hmm, new boyfriend is killed by Oliver because of Prometheus. Perfect!" Yet, they seem to be taking the time to establish Susan as Oliver's GF, to what? Make a possible betrayal hurt more? (The problem there is no one likes her, and I wonder if they regret having her introduction be vs. Thea now that they look back at it. Probably not. But they maybe should.)

I think the pacing is a big problem with Arrow - and has been for a while. If they wanted to fix something this season, they should have focused on that. I feel like they're stretching out Prometheus too much, a problem I had with the beginning of the season as well. Oliver didn't even know he should be worried about him until 505 when Church told him. Do we even know what Prometheus' play is going to be in 5B? I don't think we have any idea. We still don't even know if Prometheus is who they think he is based on 509. Is Evelyn still going to be working for Prometheus or disappear because her betrayal has been revealed? Are they even going to try to explain her choosing to work for him beyond what they have on-screen and in interviews? (I don't want more time spent on that than necessary, but I think they need to do something.) And now with bringing in Tina - as a new BC, a mask with some other name, a LI, hell even a detective (I wonder if we'll even see her as a detective more than once or twice as a reminder that she is one) - either they'll end up spending too much time on establishing her or too little.

I agree with this. Honestly, if Tina is going to be a LI for anyone possibly down the line, they should have done a chemistry test. It couldn't hurt. I feel the same way for any possible series regular who will be spending most of their time acting with any of the current series regulars. I think this is part of why Curtis worked so well in S4 and they wanted him back in S5 - he and Felicity had such a great, fun dynamic. The problem now in S5 is the writing for Curtis, so a chemistry test in that case wouldn't have mattered.

I wouldn't have been surprised if they had Susan working for Prometheus, therefore knew Oliver is GA, knew what he did and maybe, I don't know, Evelyn set up cameras in the lair, so she saw Oliver leave or put a tracking chip on him or something - or just called his security detail again (since that was apparently A-OK even though she's a reporter - still annoyed about Oliver not caring about that - though they probably had no idea where he was since they don't seem to care about keeping track of or protecting the mayor in a city where mayors drop like flies) - and just knew he was coming over (maybe she was staring out her window and saw him come up the front steps?) and put on the lingerie. I don't remember the last time on any show they had a female character answer the door in the middle of the night when she shouldn't have been expecting anyone, wearing lingerie - especially in the middle of winter. That's why the whole "no, they didn't have sex" clarification had to happen. And on top of the BFS tweets "explaining" the episodes? Not a good sign for a show.

I think it was because that was when Diggle was mad at Oliver and didn't want him there, which was totally okay. But then when it came to Felicity being angry later in the season, she was expected to just come around and forget because then Oliver's actions and decisions were apparently okay, as opposed to his actions at the end of S3. I will also forever be bitter that Felicity and Diggle apparently can't be friends anymore. I feel like Oliver really did get Diggle in the breakup sometimes, until they throw in a line here and there (like Diggle knowing how Felicity felt about breaking him out) or a brief scene, which, now, seems more about OTA vs newbies and keeping information from them. Remember them in S2? I miss that.

Agree with anything that gets the newbies off Arrow, but I doubt they're stupid enough to think they'd get ratings that would keep it on air longer than a week. Maybe they're testing Tina for a Birds of Prey type show? I would love to see a show with a female lead, but I really do think that there are enough Arrowverse shows on the CW right now. And I feel like I've seen a few articles about other shows the network has in development or is considering or something along those lines for there to be room for another spinoff on the schedule.

I liked Hoechlin as Superman enough to want to see him again, but I don't know about wanting a TV show. Smallville was on too recently for that, I think.

I have no idea what they could spinoff from any of the existing shows that they could think would be a good show. Maybe the magic airport that allows everyone to travel within the allotted time to wherever they need to be? (Completely joking.) They couldn't be stupid enough to think a WD spinoff would work. Something to do with ARGUS? Doubt it.

The Laurel bit especially bothers me because other than the Sara resurrection bit, necessary for LoT, I didn't mind how she was written in S4 when compared to other seasons. I wish they'd remember she had flaws and acknowledge she got past her S2 woes. (And that they hadn't written that 419 retcon. Tommy deserved so much better.) And just think how they could've shown Olicity as a stable couple with everything else going on pretty close to the same. Oliver probably wouldn't be a complete idiot in S5. That would free up so much time to actually explore some of the stories they've set up. Honestly, shows seem to be moving past the will they/won't they and keeping couples apart. Except Arrow. Procedurals are doing a better job with their couples. The Arrow writers should take note.

I don't think the LIs, at least right now, have anything to do with Olicity as a couple - especially since they seem to be stressing that Oliver and Felicity are friends right now. (At least in interviews.) I think they're more about those two as partners on the team. And the whole matter of trust. Turns out, despite spec, Felicity could trust Billy when it came to telling him she works with GA. He was a good guy. On the other hand, I don't see any point in proving Oliver was right to trust Susan after the way she was introduced with Thea and since it looks like she's gone after 512. I think if that were true, instead of things like the Russian vodka and Thea again against Susan in 509, we'd get little signs that Susan could turn around and not use what she has against Oliver.

That's the other thing - her investigation is bringing other people in. The PI gave her the photo. Are we to believe she has enough money to keep him from blabbing to someone else who might be willing to pay? And we don't know what she may have told her producer already - or someone else - before she started having "genuine" (I really hate that word describing this "relationship") feelings for Oliver.

Do we know that? I may have missed something. I thought that 510-512 might lead to Felicity doing her own thing.

You know how the point of Billy as Felicity's BF seemed to be so that Oliver would end up killing him? I wonder if the point of Susan as a LI is to have Oliver have to focus on whatever her actions lead to, driving a wedge between O/F (and further stalling a reunion or even scenes that could lead up to a reunion) because he's not focusing on Prometheus at the moment, leading to Felicity's arc and her turning to other people. He's already failed her as her fiancé and friend. Could they really have Oliver fail Felicity as her partner too? I wouldn't be surprised given the rest of S5 so far. Maybe the real reason they put Diggle back in prison (and even Lance in rehab, since he's spoken against Susan) right now is so he couldn't join Thea in pointing out Oliver is wrong to trust Susan. So, of course, nothing to do with Diggle's own storyline. And once Susan is exposed, there will be no reason to have Diggle out of the picture, so they'll find a reason to free him.

I just can't get past him dating the reporter who has been against him as mayor and those working for him. How does it look to the public that he brought her as his date to the holiday party? And will now be dating her? I guess it's fortunate no one else in the city wants to be mayor. Also, they still could've done the reporter digging into his past without him dating her. They could've even done it with O/F together. Or did they think she'd look too unprofessional (which she already does) if she tried to make a move on a man in a relationship? I want her to expose him because after we keep seeing Thea tell Oliver it's a bad idea, I want her to be right. She deserves at least that for getting stuck in this storyline. (I also still think that this could've been a better storyline if they had stuck to Thea vs Susan like it started out and not made her a LI. Thea could've been trying to handle Susan digging into her brother alone because she thought Oliver had too much going on with Prometheus. Could've given Thea something to do at least.)

That bothered me about 213 too. It felt like there should have been another scene with Felicity after the "not going to lose me" bit. Just something. Instead, it went from that to all about O/S. I think I would've been fine with the lunge if they had decided after it was a one-time thing. Both were hurting. I could understand that. But after Oliver's "I can't be with someone I could really care about" in 206 and then O/S just together in 214, it annoyed me. If Oliver wasn't jealous of Barry, someone should've made that clear while filming 208-210. He was jealous. Pretend he wasn't jealous because of romance reasons, fine (even though it came across like he was), say it was all platonic and whatever, but it was there. I will also forever be bitter that Oliver made Felicity his EA without asking her and then lost her her job and it was never addressed. Did they even discuss Arrow business in the office enough that his "reasons" for the job change made sense? Not that I can remember. I think there was more Arrow business talk at work when Oliver didn't work there, Felicity worked in IT and she didn't know he was the vigilante.

It's not on the blu-ray. I think it was just used to get people to buy the set. But they did make it seem like it would be included. Wasn't it released at the same time that other bonus features from the set were posted?

My problem with pushing an Olicity reunion back to S6 is it gives Oliver more episodes to be stupid and do more things that will make me not want him with Felicity. Also, I feel like they'll lose more fans over the summer that way. And if they make Tina a LI? Olicity fans will be mad over the summer. Laurel/comics fans will be mad if Tina is getting the GA/BC romance they wanted. I will say that I don't think they'll ever kill off Felicity. They'd sooner give EBR the deal across all shows and actually use her on a consistent basis if they didn't want her around for some stupid reason full time on Arrow.

That's why he's with the reporter! He got confused and figured she represented the city. You know, woman writing about the city = the city itself. I mean, Oliver is kind of stupid right now.

Maybe they'll do a lunge in the flashbacks.

Same sometimes. I also sometimes wonder if, after whatever it is Felicity does, she decides she needs a break and is the one to leave town after they take down Prometheus. But because he's mayor (if he still is at the end of the season), Oliver can't go with her, so they'll decide not to get them back together.

Oh I agree. It just felt like a strange choice to not show her last time and I wonder if they'll make the same decision next time. It felt too much like they went out of their way to skip her. I'm also thinking about it from the standpoint of Felicity thinking hunting down Prometheus should be priority.

What bugs me is how much time they're spending on these random LIs for Oliver and Felicity, especially since I think that if a reunion is coming, they're going to end up rushing through it or have it happen before a break (probably between seasons). They want to write away from the Olicity romance but I don't see the point of focusing on these other relationships like they are. And I will be annoyed if an episode coming up has the team having to save Susan because she got in over her head with the Bratva. With everything else going on, they'd have to take time out to deal with that. I'd be cheering for the Bratva in that case. It's not a good sign if I'm rooting against the main character of a show, but in this case, I am, because Oliver has been warned by Thea. Multiple times. I also wonder about this "genuine" relationship when most of it has to take place off-screen since CP only filmed 512. Is Oliver going to keep taking time off to go meet her? Tell the others he's going to meet Susan while they're working? (And of course they'll probably skip Felicity's reaction again.) Tell her he has mayoral business when he has to suit up as GA? He's putting all their secret identities in jeopardy with what will probably be bad lies - to a reporter - given his past with lying.