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And what bothers me about this is it's almost like the show is saying that Oliver will only be there for Felicity if he thinks they're going to get back together. So if a relationship is off the table, does that mean he doesn't care if they're friends? Something else that bothers me is that Oliver and Felicity had all summer to talk about things like Havenrock. We had, what, one moment of him asking her about it only for it to be brushed aside? (And that was before he knew about Billy.) There could have easily been a line from Oliver to Diggle during that video chat in 501 that he's tried to talk to her, but she won't talk to him. Or something. Felicity has said they don't have that kind of relationship anymore, but have we seen Oliver say that to anyone? Not that I can remember. He asked Felicity to talk to Rory, but he hasn't asked anyone to talk to Felicity, has he? He could have done that if he felt he was the wrong person for the job. I also think the ending of 509 wouldn't have hurt so much if we saw Oliver outside the loft before going to Susan's. If he jumped up on the balcony or stood outside the door and then decided to not go in and left. ETA: 509 also could have been fixed with Oliver texting Diggle to check on Felicity - hey, remember that friendship? Yeah, the show doesn't either - and then Diggle being distracted because he got the call that led to his arrest.

Crazy theory: The Rene/Lance scene coming up is going to be Lance hiring Rene as Oliver's security detail because, by 512, everyone's going to realize that having security willing to tell a reporter the mayor's whereabouts is a bad idea. And who better to have than someone who knows when/where Oliver's going to be sneaking off to? (The "interview" would just be for show - say, Rene walking into Lance's office at City Hall - but they'd have to talk about something, so cue Rene/Lance scene.) Of course, this means that the public is going to have to believe that Rene could protect Oliver, but we already known Star City residents aren't the smartest people.

I mean, I still believe that they're not done with O/F as a couple, but it has been bleak and is probably going to be bleak going forward. I think it's easier at this point to watch the show for what you do like.

Honestly? Even if they plan on making Oliver/Tina happen at any point, they'll probably still keep putting in a moment here and there between Oliver and Felicity to try to keep Olicity shippers around. Even if they have decided not to go back to O/F ever, I don't think they'll ever say in an interview that they closed the book on them in S4 like they did with O/L in S1 in the interviews after Laurel's death until after the series finale. Then they might say, "Oh, yeah, we told that story in S4, but..."

Yep. And if Tina's not connected, that's another storyline they're going to have to give screen time to at some point.

I'm still bitter that all we got from Felicity and Sara together in the crossover was the two walking off in The Flash episode. You know, they could have said that they were putting together a "welcome back from the dead" dinner for Sara, at the loft, with Oliver cooking. That would have been one line they could have put into an episode to at least tell us that they spent time with her when she wasn't in the field before she left.

It would be hilarious if "Carlos" is Rene, Tina sees him and goes, "Carlos?" Rene says, "Uh, yeah, I used to go by that name." Then Oliver goes, "Look, I found him! Easy. Now join the team." And that explains how quickly she joins. Same. Mainly because I don't want Tina to be another person Oliver talks to about his son that's not Felicity. I got angry about that all over again by discussion here about how he talked to Diggle and Vixen and not Felicity in 415.

That's why I think they would've been better off having the 213 hookup be a one-time thing. Or just had them casually hooking up throughout 2B, sort of a comfort thing. Instead, they wanted that awful 214 family dinner, and so they had them in a relationship in 214. I think they also wanted to tease Felicity being jealous of Sara for a bit of Olicity and then throw in the, hey, no, it's about being part of the team. Maybe even so that the "I love you" would be a big S2 finale surprise since Oliver and Sara just broke up a few episodes before. There is a lot to be bitter about for everyone involved - even tangentially - with that storyline.

No, I think she's a detective in another city (with time spent in CC). I'm just going to assume she's going to join SCPD since they're at least one detective short right now and if they say she does, bam, any questions of her job are gone. They don't even need to show her working, just have one mention of it. Maybe join the ACU too because... why not? Or the ACU is just going to disappear from the show. Otherwise, what? She's moving cities and going from some place she has a job to some place she doesn't and isn't going to get one? I'm sorry, but joining up with the GA is not worth that.

True. But I don't get recruiting someone new so soon after Evelyn's betrayal. Unless they think that by looking outside the city, there's no chance Tina could be working for Prometheus? (But imagine if she is. Imagine if Prometheus heard about her metahuman canary cry before the team did and recruited her. "You're anti-vigilantes? Well, I have this vigilante in Star City who was a killer a few years ago, etc." I'm going to assume he knew about Laurel's tech, since he knew about Black Siren and since he has Evelyn working for him. Imagine if that's why Tina joins so quickly. Maybe, since he lost Evelyn as a mole, the Black Siren dupe is a test to see if he can get someone new in with them, and if/when that fails, he has Tina as a backup. The only problem with this would be Tina working with someone who's killing people, I guess.)

The TVLine preview. Here's the stuff about Diggle:

At this point, I'm just hoping something comes out of the con that makes me think the show remembers that Felicity and Diggle are friends. That they're not overselling Felicity's storyline. That Thea has a storyline coming up that's not connected to Oliver or Lance. That Oliver ... is not an idiot? That he remembers the people who have stood by him for four years and doesn't just care about newbies? I expect we'll get nothing about Olicity (other than maybe another mention of "oh, isn't it great they're friends/partners?" even though we don't really see that on-screen). Yeah, that's the part I don't get. What's with the rush to get Tina on the team? Why not have the guys go to recruit her and she decides against it, then maybe decides to move to Star City to help as a detective after doing some research into what's going on there. She slowly starts to see that the vigilantes are actually doing good in the city and then maybe decides to join up later on in the season. Instead, it looks like there's going to be, what, one or two scenes where she's "anti-vigilante," which was a part of her character description in the casting news, and then suiting up with them? I feel like the goal is to deal with the SCPD as little as possible this season, so this is probably 100% the case. Remember when they found out Prometheus had access to evidence from the police? Did that actually go anywhere? Not that I can remember. The corrupt cops apparently all disappeared with Church (isn't that nice of them?).

Question: Have the EPs ever used "her own sort of island" to describe anything they've put Felicity through? Also, so very convenient that Tina's coming in with her own "island" story so she can "form a connection" with Oliver. Can men and women just be friends? I'd love to see that happen with Oliver and Tina. Surprise the audience and don't get them together. Come on, show. (Remember when Susan talked about Oliver needing a "friend"? I know she didn't mean it, but it would be nice to see him actually get a new one in Tina.) I did like that that preview mentioned some stuff coming up for Diggle. It actually sounds like they might not forget that the people who framed him are out there. I'm assuming that's who Colonel Walker is. I never caught the guy's name.

Imagine if first, they saw reports of women being attacked and realized they looked like Thea. Then while on patrol, one of the team saw a blonde. They then realized what DD did... That would have been a much better storyline. They could have made it an actual arc for Arrow too instead of just "need Sara alive for LoT." The episodes they felt they needed to do - on both Arrow and Flash - to set up LoT were definite low points of last year.

Yeah, that fact actually reminded me of how, in S4, they made a whole thing about how Felicity had money because Ray gave her his company and Oliver didn't. He bought that truck for the fingerprints. ("We have money now.") Then Felicity used PT to back his campaign. She bought the building so they'd have the space for the lair/for Oliver's campaign office. He needed her money to buy drugs. Etc. Honestly, after that, he should have went to her to tell her they needed something from PT and he didn't want to take it without telling her, not steal it. Which makes me wonder. Is the show saying Oliver has money again? Is Felicity using whatever money she still has to fund the team? How is that working in S5? Especially since it looks like no one else on the team has a job. (Please tell me if I missed something in the dialogue at some point.) How are any of them paying for anything? I guess Paul still has a job, so it was okay that Curtis didn't anymore? What about Rory? Rene? That could be why they made Tina a detective - to give her a job so she could afford to move cities.

I wonder if something similar is going to come up with Felicity's "darker" storyline. Maybe she turns to other people because she and Oliver have different points of view on what should and should not be done - especially if she feels like he's not giving Prometheus the focus he should. So she won't be keeping things from the team as so much as she'll be "not looping them in because of differing opinions." If they do that, they'll probably feel like they'll avoid having to spend any time dealing with any fallout from any separation of Felicity and the team. They wrapped up the 504 conflict within that episode, after all.

I wonder if the point of that - and no one subsequently suggesting proving his innocence while he was stuck being a fugitive - is so that now there can be a "Wow, why didn't any of us think about doing that/finding the real guilty people?" moment. Or just to connect Chase to the storyline. Probably the latter since he's a series regular.

What does it say about Oliver and how he's being written that it was even a possibility that he might lie about what happened to Billy? (And if he did, the show might have written it as, "Well, he didn't want Felicity to be hurting any more than she already is with Billy dead and that wasn't something she needed to know, so he was right to not tell her the truth." Then Prometheus probably would have told her - after everyone, including Chase, knew - before doing something that would draw everyone's focus.)

Yep. Especially since Felicity proved she could be trusted for years. She stood by his side after all the crap he pulled. He could have ruined her career when he made her his EA. If Ray hadn't noticed her, how long would she have been stuck in Tech whatever that store was? She went away with him after she thought he left her in a dungeon to die. And then he still chose to make the choices he has starting with 408. And then he told Samantha all their secrets. I doubt he even asked them. That could have backfired. So many of Oliver's decisions can backfire every time he makes them. 504 still annoys me because Felicity had, what, 5 seconds between finding out Oliver and Lyla were breaking Diggle out of prison and being excluded from it? Did they think she'd turn them in if they told her about their plans after that? Did they think she'd sabotage their plans once Oliver was in the prison? And in the end, she was right to question that move. Plus, Oliver lied again when he broke into PT. He hasn't learned anything. Really, I feel like his relationship with Susan should make Felicity feel like she made the right decision to not be with him. If he opens up about Russia to a reporter after Felicity mentioned in 502 that he doesn't talk about Russia... There's stalling a ship and then there's ruining it. Sometimes I feel like the writers don't know the difference.

Could you imagine if Oliver had another new LI after this and they had the "previous relationships" talk? "Well, I was engaged until I screwed that up. Then I killed my ex-fiancée's BF and got together with the reporter who was stalking me, manipulated my sister and (could have) exposed my Russian past because she was investigating me. Before that? Took my girlfriend's sister on a trip that ended with us 'dead' for five years. Oh yeah, she died and came back too. That other GF also died. Then there's the one night stand with my father's mistress, the Huntress, the woman who had my kid and had to move away..."

I don't get why it's a good thing to see Oliver opening up to someone else when he couldn't do the same with Felicity. Is she supposed to see that and go, "Yay, he could talk to this shady reporter but he couldn't talk to me last year about his son?" (FYI if they have Oliver tell Susan about William - not that I think he will - I will rage.) And while I didn't want to see Oliver doing anything like forcing Felicity into another fake wedding (I'm still annoyed about that and Diggle and Thea siding with him), I did want to see him making it clear he meant it when he said she's his "always" and didn't forget about that the moment she gave back the ring again.

They might just show Felicity working on something on her computer for a few episodes and not telling anyone what it is. Then the others will find out, we'll have that "what have you been doing/why didn't you tell us" scene and then it'll be done/pushed to the background. What I really need are spoilers about Thea, Lance and Rory. Anything at this point that has to do only with them.

I've realized what bothers me the most about using "genuine" for Oliver/Susan. Genuine = real. Felicity was with Billy - who was a good guy - for 9 episodes of S5 time and before the season began and never answered if that was "real." (I suspect the answer would have been no given her inability to call him her BF and the look to the red pen.) But Oliver is going to have a "genuine" relationship with the shady reporter after, what, 3 episodes?

I agree. But it would be nice to see him at least try to be there for them? Maybe acknowledge they're going through stuff? And not have one line asking about them cut off by someone entering the room/something else happening (like in 504). I think the problem is with the interviews/videos/spoilers being released too. Because right now we know Felicity's grieving after Oliver killed her boyfriend and has a "darker" arc coming up, Diggle's back in prison and the writers like writing for WD (still can't believe that interview), and ... Oliver's going to have a "genuine" relationship with the reporter, just believe that Laurel is alive again and go looking for Tina. They've stressed that Felicity's arc is separate from her relationship with Oliver and so far, it sounds like to them, that means that Oliver can't be involved whatsoever.

I bet they forgot all about that. Probably because they'd have to figure out a reason to explain it and just don't want to. But maybe the writers will surprise me and all this will come together in a way that makes sense and doesn't make Oliver look like a total idiot in 512. Yeah, I'm choosing to be pessimistic about Oliver helping Felicity or Diggle (past getting him Chase as his lawyer apparently). He's going to have BS, then recruiting Tina, then whatever's going to happen with Susan to deal with in 510-512. So if he is there for the two people who have stood by him through all the crap he's pulled over the last several years, I'll be pleasantly surprised. I can't help but wonder what Lance's reaction is going to be to everything (or at least what they tell him) when he gets out of rehab. Can you imagine? Say Thea tells him, "Well, one of the newbies betrayed us. So Oliver's recruiting another new person for the team. And the Laurel from another Earth destroyed the (ugly) statue the city made for your daughter" - they might have to tell him about BS or make up some lie if BS does, in fact, destroy that statue - "and Oliver's dating that reporter we warned him about and she found out that he was in Russia when he should have been on the island." "And what has Oliver done as mayor?" "Uh... I put together a holiday party in City Hall for him? Oh, and Diggle's back in jail because no one thought we should do anything about him being a fugitive."