ReadMeLattice

She was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, so I trust that clinician's diagnosis. It seems accurate, but I don't know her, so won't speculate about any personality disorders, as those are highly complex and require quite a bit of prolonged observation not on television. She does have quite a bit of childhood trauma to contend with. However much I dislike her, her suffering, both externally and self-inflicted, is palpable. It's why I don't find her particularly fun to complain about, though I find her personally extremely distasteful. She doesn't appear to be seeking any therapy, nor do those around her encourage it. I doubt she ever will. It's one of the many things that makes this show immoral. If MTV truly had personal relationships with these girls as they constantly claim to, they would push Jenelle in particular to seek extensive help. Instead, I assume they encourage the opposite so that she provides more on camera drama.

Javi wouldn't have been able to shut up about that if it was even a remote possibility. This is a man who flipped out over a phone password and had a public fight about it on national TV and in front of his wife's friends. No way, no how. Certainly wouldn't have been able to swallow his pride and bitch about CrossFit instead.

Because they don't want her to be spoiled, y'all!!!!!

@Uncle JUICE, good point about the show's premise. These moms and dads would have to be busting their asses to make ends meet, but not a single one except Javi, Corey, and Kail either works or goes to school full time. They're not showing the problems of teen parents now, or the aftermath. They're just showing dysfunctional 20 somethings have MTV careers and live in huge homes.

I think Javi has a girlfriend too, right? The girl he was in bed with in his Snapchats? Once one of them breaks up with their bf/gf, they'll get back together, most likely. Wish they wouldn't. *sigh*

@NikSac, I don't doubt that it happens. I haven't known anyone whose female partner had a child with someone else, but I've known someone whose male partner did, and it was very devastating. But in this situation, there's no indication or proof of that happening, and far more proof and indications that it didn't and that they had sex, conceived, and she miscarried, like the vast majority of people in partnerships both unhealthy and healthy. People have unplanned pregnancies and planned ones with people they barely like, and certainly with their partners/spouses, constantly. Their marriage being bad indicates nothing about whether or not the child is Javi's.

@islandgal140, all of them who were last asked said 100% no. Aspyn and Logan were undecided in high school, but they are both a big hell no now. Plus, they both drink now, a huge no no in their cult.

I believe that the parents decided to contribute more money to Mariah's tuition, and she also got another scholarship and a job. If Meri contributed from her budget, I think that's perfectly fair. She had only one child and that's the budget the family decided on. Fair or unfair, once she got it, it was best used for college tuition. And they're the ones who raised her in the cult she wanted to be part of. I will say that none of them need those McMansions. It's insane to have those when you're in a financial hole.

Yes, her "fillings" generally seem to consist of "feeling victimized," "feeling superior," "feeling emotionally raped," and "feeling entitled."

It is distributed evenly in general. There was an episode about their college finances and they explicitly stated that all the college funds come out of one shared account. Meri had more income, but not more tuition money. They wanted a larger share of the overall tuition money and Kody agreed due to religious/cult reasons (which I think is the dumbest reason out of many, but that's just me). He wouldn't co-sign on a loan for Mariah, even though she'd be the one with the debt. So that was his choice, not Meri's or Mariah's, to be fair. It's difficult to say 100% that each child should get the exact same amount of college money. Some kids want to go to the local community college and don't need the money, or they get a scholarship to a state school. Others might have the grades and interest to go to an Ivy (no merit-based scholarships) or the talent and drive for an art school. Neither is more or less respectable, but I don't know that the latter kids should have zero opportunity to do that.

They have one collective budget/account for tuition. Their personal budgets aren't involved and no parent pays more than another for college. Where that comes from, I am skeptical/confused, except that they do make a ton from the show, so maybe they've put some in there? The Browns are the least financially responsible people I've ever seen.

It's hard to say. Perhaps. None of them asked, and the one thing that convinced the parents that Mariah could go was that Mariah was the only one carrying on their polygamist legacy, and the only one who remained in their church. The other kids had left. Also, they use one collective budget for all the kids' colleges. It wasn't that Meri had more on her own, it was that they asked for more than they would for the other kids and the reasoning was Mariah's desire to attend the school for religious reasons. Also, Kody refused to take out loans himself or allow Mariah to work or take out loans/take on debt (which she offered to do) at the time, which is a bit silly as he's not exactly financially responsible. He didn't want her to "have debt" when she graduated or take money from the government, but we all know they've declared bankruptcy multiple times and cheated the welfare system. So I think there was more going on than just Meri being spoiled and demanding, though that was certainly part of it. One thing I will say is that Mariah does work while going to school, while Aspyn and Logan don't and Mykelti didn't when she attended. Aspyn is in a sorority, Logan spends most of his time with his girlfriend, etc. There's nothing wrong with that (they shouldn't have to), but it's part of their choice to attend a cheaper school, and Mariah's job is part of hers. So in that way, it's fair. I don't think Mariah needed to go to the school, as she ended up leaving the church. But maybe she needed to be around it more to figure that out. More importantly, I'd hope that the Browns would allow their children to take out loans or devote more college money to a child with a particular need, like a school for a specific area of interest (like a conservatory or tech school). I hope they wouldn't deny them that chance. Meri having a larger personal, household budget was a different issue. They don't use those budgets for college tuition. So Janelle isn't paying more than one college tuition right now, for example.

But their children were not and wanted no part of that. Mariah went to the polygamist school in high school for free. It was basically a homeschooling collective. The college she went to was a different issue. Mykelti, Aspyn, and Maddie actively wanted out of the religion and wouldn't have been caught dead in school in Utah near an AUB group. Isn't that equally or more his mother's fault?

I'm not sure. It does seem like the only reason she was allowed that wasn't exactly because she was Meri's child, but because she was the *only* one at the time expressing any desire to continue their cult/religion, and she explicitly stated she wanted to go back there to do that and find a polygamist community/practice/maybe even husband. It wasn't like she wanted to go to Harvard (though I'm not saying that's a 'luxury;' I do deeply hope if one of their children got into an art school or an Ivy or MIT, they'd make sacrifices to send them there if they had real talent and aptitude).It was a tiny Utah school near a known AUB community. The way the other parents were convinced was entirely due to religion; how can we deny her this, they wondered,if this is truly what we believe? They were still knee-deep in the AUB doctrine, and Mariah had spent her whole life in a polygamist school with other plyg families until Vegas, so she was more heavily indoctrinated. Meri also seemed quite seriously religious, even more than the others except Robyn, at the start of the show. They don't act like it now, but these people raised their kids in a straight-up incestuous cult.

I saw no "tearing," just honestly expressed anger along with repeated expressions of love. Mariah isn't a child and she and Meri have always had an open relationship (probably inappropriately so). In my opinion, an adult must give respect to get it. Meri deeply disrespected her sister wives throughout their lives and showed no respect to her daughter in this. In fact, she is a generally highly disrespectful person. She demanded that she be forgiven (which also tells you about their dynamic) immediately on television for something that she knew deeply hurt and humiliated her daughter, who has just realized she was raised in a cult. Meri doesn't deserve some magical unearned respect, and Mariah doesn't owe her a supernatural level of perfect behavior, because Meri gave birth to her or because she is older. You reap what you sow. Meri has sown quite a bit of BS. If Meri wants to talk about this with Mariah, she owes her honesty, and she is lying. Mariah knows it. So if Mariah were to say she forgave her, she'd be participating in the lie as well.

Yes, I have it too. I don't doubt that she has depression. It doesn't make her actions moral or not abusive, and it doesn't make her less of a liar. Plus, she chose and continues to choose polygamy, claiming it is superior to other life choices. Her family is nothing like other polygamous families, and she has plenty of her own income from the show and has worked in far more than minimum wage jobs. She wouldn't be cut off. None of the kids are in the church any longer and they are treated just fine.

I'm not sure why Mariah should have to understand in depth the evils of polygamy when her own mother is back in the fold and singing the praises of polygamy and their religion. So she's supposed to say how wrong her mom is and how little she knows about her own needs...to her face? All she said was that she's angry and confused and needs time to process. She's had years of brainwashing and is just now realizing it. It will take time. More to the point, Meri, too, benefited financially from polygamy over and over and over, and she was an adult. What Mariah got was runoff. Meri got a bigger budget, a nicer mansion, the feeling of being "first wife" and lording it over the others, etc. She got to abuse Janelle and get away with it. She got to use Janelle's and Kody's money and Christine's cooking skills and only work part time while her sister wives raised 12 kids on a tiny budget compared to hers. It's only when it stopped serving her that she no longer "loved" polygamy. And did she respond by speaking out against it or seeking therapy? Or leaving the marriage? Nope, she had an affair and continues to reap the financial benefits of calling herself a sister wife. The show, the business, and the family budget. Those would go away if she left. So I'd say if Mariah is a brat, Meri is an even bigger one. Mariah wanted to go to that expensive school to be part of the church and religion *they* shoved on her and indoctrinated in her since birth. She wasn't exactly trying to go to a party school.

As for Mariah being myopic and only focused on herself, well, sure. That's how early 20s/teenagers are, and should be, and have to be before they figure out their identity in relationship to the world. However, depression or not, Meri compared what happened with the catfish to being raped and isn't admitting what she did. And I just can't get behind that. Her depression may be real, but that doesn't make her a real victim in every situation. She can still act and her actions also affect other people.

Also, millions of people are single with NO kids, single parents, coupled with kids, actual empty nesters, etc. Plenty of them have fulfilling jobs, hobbies, friends, travel, and extended family relationships. It's not like Meri is the first woman on earth whose daughter has gone to college. She's actually luckier than many in the number of people she has around.

Mariah apologized for the eyebrow comment and admitted that she's too angry to talk right now and she has to wait or she'll really lash out. She also said her mother must be going through a lot of pain and she knows she is adding to it by not immediately forgiving her. I thought all of that was quite mature. I expected something really different before I watched the episode. Except for one or two snarky comments, she was a lot kinder than I'd have been. I'd have played Meri the voicemail where she curses out my dad and says Sam is way hotter, richer, and "better on all fucking levels," and that she'd leave my dad in a second for him, or shown her the banana blow job picture and said, "Really, Mom? This was your "friendship?" I think most people would. She was comparatively incredibly forgiving. Meri doesn't deserve it.

Her mother admits no wrongdoing even though she publicly humiliated her daughter and family and carried on an affair while her daughter stayed in her home. Last I checked, your parents paying for college (and she gets quite a hefty scholarship and now works, so she is at least partially contributing) didn't require you to be ok with that. According to her mother, the church is wonderful and not harmful in any way.

@shelley1005, and most of those people are suffering from mental health issues--people with mental health problems are disproportionately incarcerated, justly or not. It's hard to separate the two. It's a complicated issue, not just one or the other. We also know she has been diagnosed with severe mental health problems that are likely going untreated. Just saying that drug abuse doesn't mean one doesn't have mental health problems as well; often they're just a symptom of the larger problem. If you're seriously addicted, you wouldn't be going out and having 'fun' then either without access to your drug of choice, you'd be having withdrawals and in a lot of pain, psychological and physical. Then again, I have a very different view because I am a therapist & psychology professor, so I have pretty much the opposite view of someone working in corrections. I see a very different side of people's issues. It's just different entirely. That said, I find it hard to believe anything with Jenelle except that she's a scary liar. I don't think it's even for drug abuse reasons, I just think she's a scary attention seeker, for whatever reason. She probably did all of it just to get on 'The Doctors.' MTV may even have told her to say that stuff so she could be on. I don't trust her, I mean seriously, ever, so I'm not all that interested in defending anything she does personally. But that doesn't mean the pharmaceutical industry/the way we go about treating mental health problems isn't extremely fucked up and untrustworthy itself.

@shelley1005, I hate hate hate to possibly defend Jenelle, but that's often what things like chronic pain, hormonal issues, and depression/mental illness look like...mood swings, trying to cover up your anxiety by 'having fun,' symptoms that come and go, things that are intangible and hard to explain...it's part of why chronic pain issues and mental health problems are so misunderstood. I also don't know why she wouldn't just use other drugs or buy them on the black market (quite an easy thing to do, and she's got a lot of money) if that's all she wanted...She has a dark past/present and lots of friends who use drugs (Tori, all her exes) who could hook her up if she truly wasn't suffering. Also, even if she's an addict, it doesn't mean she ISN'T severely depressed, suffering, or anxious. Actually, they often go hand in hand...and being addicted to something doesn't mean you have no real medical problems or that every time you seek medication, it's because of an addiction.

Well, she did learn from the best on the bullying. ;)

@Spiderella2, I'd say that may be true but Leah admits it stays at school...which means that she uses it at neither Corey nor Leah's house.