ReadMeLattice

@SunnyBeBe, I think Mariah alluded to that pretty clearly when she said it didn't matter if it wasn't physical, it was still deception and an affair. Until Meri admits that, it must be hard for Mariah to know how to respond. If someone admits they wronged you, the ball's in your court. You still don't have to forgive them immediately, but still, it's up to you how to proceed. Meri is not only downplaying but actively lying about what happened, so I can imagine that Mariah feels really confused about how long she is "allowed" to be angry about what is basically a lie. Also, Mariah met Jackie. So that had to be creepy and must be even creepier now.

@Tatum, unfortunately the snot nosed prick was the father of the child she'd just had, and she was likely hormonal and deeply depressed. And what he said to her was abusive and traumatizing. I give her a pass on that. That said, Chelsea would maybe be marginally better than Leah/Kailyn without their background, but I don't think it's possible to say either way. She's been so, so privileged compared to the others in terms of family, support, and resources that it's really barely comparable. Chelsea's parents were paying her rent at incredibly nice apartments and giving her free childcare while Kailyn was living in the basement of her baby daddy's family after he dumped her with no parents of her own to speak of and no car, trying to get herself to school, and working, and Leah was bouncing from trailer to trailer and had Mama Dawn for a parent and no dad. It's so hard to imagine Chelsea in either situation.

@islandgal140, so true. Liberal arts colleges are worth it in so many ways. And she already does have some kind of job in the medical field in addition to her schooling, so she seems to have ambition. I say good on her.

I also think it's important to note that while Mariah's behavior is immature and disrespectful, they're both adults and Mariah doesn't owe Meri any more respect than she gets herself. Mariah works and goes to school full time and lives on her own. Meri's behavior is wildly immature and disrespectful constantly (slamming a door over King Sol?), but more than anyone, she's disrespected her daughter. She knew Kody wouldn't really give a shit, but the person this really affects besides Meri herself IS Mariah, it's true. I also thought I heard that Mariah was in the bridal party along with Mykelti and Aspyn. But I don't 100% remember. I'd love to hear more about Aspyn and where she's at in terms of polygamy and life goals.

@VedaPierce,exactly. What can she forgive? Meri is pretending she was preyed upon and did nothing wrong. It's not as if Meri is leaving and Mariah refuses to stand by her. On the contrary, Meri is reasserting the religious and moral correctness of AUB doctrine, which requires polygamy...and faithfulness in it. Yet she's still acting as if she was just seeking out an innocent friendship and was horribly abused and victimized.

@ChicksDigScars, my understanding is that the entire family, including the kids who left the church, regards each of these relationships as a marriage entirely equal in commitment and scope to any monogamous marriage. Actually, religiously superior. That's what they were taught in earnest throughout their lives.

@tortuga, that shouldn't be her place because they are both adults, yes, but probably Mariah has an inappropriate relationship with her mother because she has had undue pressure to be both Meri's daughter and partner, since Kody hasn't been around much. Meri is very emotionally unstable and has likely leaned on Mariah for advice and emotional support to an inappropriate extent. It's telling that she only sought out a boyfriend after Mariah left, which tells you how much time they were probably spending together. Also, this isn't a normal situation all around. I wouldn't have the right to tell my mom not to have an affair, but she never used me as a minor to be a character on her TV show, and she isn't on TV now or being followed by tabloids. So my friends, employer, students, and husband would never know in depth info about her affair or read her sexts and her complaints about my dad. But Mariah's circle of friends and colleagues will. Forever.

@Granny58, I don't think it has much to do with age. If Mariah is an immature person, it is largely to do with Meri, as Meri's way of communicating is also highly immature and childish. That's what's been modeled to her. I really don't see why the size of her room has anything to do with this. Someone's life can't have any struggles if they have a nice bedroom? Because she was spoiled in some ways, she's not allowed to be upset that her mom had a public affair and now regularly lies about it? Also, I wouldn't want to go to counseling or talk privately with my mom about this if she wasn't admitting what she did. And she doesn't. That's a key part of this. She claims it was mere flirting and ABUSE from the catfish, instead of Meri planning actively to leave the family for almost a year, including on more than one trip with Mariah. So she is betraying her daughter, too. Her college actually isn't too conservative. It's a liberal arts college in a fairly conservative area. Many people learn critical thinking skills and have their minds burst wide open at college. I know I did. I believe that. Re: having "compassion," it's hard when the parents told them their whole lives that they must believe a certain way of relating, loving, and marrying is the only religiously and morally correct one. The kids were much more brainwashed when they were young. Mariah went to a polygamist school through high school. It will take her some time to have compassion for why someone might want to leave or the many complicated factors that lead to something like this. I believe she will, but Meri can't expect that right away when she's the one who taught Mariah to think and believe this way to begin with, to the point that she was willing to go on a show about polygamy and fundamentalist Mormonism and sing its praises as recently as a year or so ago.

@ghoulinaGHOULINAGHOULINAGHOULIN @FaithsMum, thank you for sharing that, I 100% agree. The way the medical system is run, especially with regards to mental health, is so screwed up. Especially since they hand out dangerous medications with horrible side effects like candy and even force them nonconsensually on people in institutions, as long as they are considered to "control" the person's issues (or what the doctor perceives as their issues after an often too-short "examination" period). But if the meds might be addictive, oh no! None for you. *eyeroll* My husband is paralyzed. Some people have sensation all over despite paralysis; others don't. He does. His foot was injured once and he was nearly sobbing in pain for almost an hour before the hospital would give him pain meds because they didn't believe he could feel pain in his legs/feet and thought he was just trying to get a fix. He also had to remind them of the reality of autonomic dysreflexia. They eventually did give him the pain meds, but only after an excruciating ordeal. It was horrible. The rampant obsession with addiction we have in this country is really sort of out of hand. We don't want to help people with the underlying problems that actually cause addiction, just punish them when they have one. @ghoulina, that "reply" to you wasn't deliberate. I don't know why it did that and I tried in vain to delete it but couldn't. Sorry!

I don't think Mariah was a brat at all. Her anger is 100% justified. Her parents dragged her into this show at a young age AND told her all her life that polygamy is the one true way, religiously mandated, etc. They brainwashed her and supported her while she was publicly religious. And then her mother has a public affair...during time she spent with Mariah? Mariah is young, so she's definitely looked online and found those voicemails and photos. Her mother who told her for her entire life that polygamy is the one true way/real form of marital love is online faking blow jobs in photos and sending sexy voicemails to a stranger for almost a year, then faking victimhood and begging for pity? That's humiliating and disturbing. How can Mariah "forgive" Meri when she doesn't admit at all what she actually did?!?!

@CookieChica, so true. I really doubt Corey is carefully telling Miranda all the actual appointment info. He doesn't follow the instructions himself.

@SPLAIN, I don't think she mentioned it but I assume she was with TR. I agree that she's likely unconcerned about it unless Corey is the one watching them.

@DoctorWhovian, totally agree. The only way this would be a thing at all beyond a gentle reminder is if they'd agreed as parents on what was best for Ali's disability and Miranda was breaking the agreement. But we all know that's not the case. At all.

@SPLAIN, her sense of style is super weird. Cultural appropriation much? Like, I think I'm better than Latinos, but I want to look like what I think they look like.

@shelley1005, I have PTSD from that text and he didn't even send it to me, lol.

She said that to Chelsea's mom, not Chelsea, and that's also an incorrect paraphrase of her statement. Chelsea's never forced Aubree to call Cole Dad, and Aubree has also openly compared Cole to Adam favorably. Even if she DID make her call him Dad, which she hasn't, it wouldn't be at all comparable or in the same league as Adam's actions.

@Lexie, she's not "pushing" anyone on her. She got engaged. She's allowed to be with someone other than the douche she slept with at 16. To insinuate that the damage Adam is causing is in any way comparable to Chelsea's mistakes is laughable. She's made minor mistakes. He can barely be considered a father.

I don't think she is anything like her mother. Her mother was a neglectful parent and an addict. Different issues entirely.

@Lemons, I mean, he openly says she told him and he "couldn't" go because of the competition, so I'm not really sure what the question is here. And she shouldn't have to ask his *permission* for her stepfather to attend a school event. He asked her specifically not to call him, only text. So I'm not sure why she should go that out of her way AND go directly against the kind of contact he says he wants with her...? I think the only person who's "reprehensible" here is the one who called his daughter a mistake and her mother a fat stretch marked bitch.

@gunderda, of course they're allowed to upset them. And the kid is allowed to express that it upset them or that they feel annoyed, frustrated, don't like the interaction, etc. It should have stopped there and not become a major family conflict. And ditto on the nagging. She should have to spend an inordinate amount of time nagging him to be a decent father...forever?! When she has a job and a fiance and pets and a kid to raise and a house to take care of and other friends and family? That ain't her job. She tried. Really hard. He's never shown an ounce of initiative. She should basically stalk him about a father daughter dance he should already know all about? I don't think so. She's six. He's had time to improve and hasn't. He's actually actively asked her NOT to nag him. So she's supposed to go against his wishes, too? She let him know. That was far more than she even needed to do.

@gunderda, maybe, but Miranda does say she usually helps her. I was responding more to the whining/exaggerating/brat assumptions--while Ali may have simply wanted help at that exact moment and Miranda was stressed/couldn't, kids feel stress and have bad days too, and Ali would especially. We can understand why Miranda might snap or make a mistake when she's stressed, exhausted, or just having a bad day, so I don't know why Ali shouldn't be able to without being 'bratty.' Leah is the one in the wrong here, not Ali. Ali was sharing her feelings like every other person should be able to do, kid or not. Those feelings might include being frustrated or angry at a parent or guardian, justified or not. That doesn't make them a brat, but a mature person listens for the underlying message and either deals with it or just makes their kid feel heard. They don't hit record and try to make someone into a villain. Leah made it about her conflict with Miranda, not showing empathy for her child and teaching her emotional maturity, whatever the situation was. Even if a parent makes a mistake, it can be a great learning tool for a child--'You know how you get mad and frustrated? Parents do too, and sometimes they don't act appropriately all the time,' or 'Let's help you get some coping skills when you feel mad or frustrated so you don't act out,' or 'Let's learn how to ask for help in a positive way.' Maybe she needs to develop patience or more empathy. Whatever it is, it doesn't necessarily mean Ali was lying/bratty--but Leah certainly was. Also, what is a simple task for another kid might not be for Ali, but that should be decided on by all the parents. It's not Miranda's job to decide when to ignore Ali's disability like her parents do and when to take it seriously.

So let's recap...no custody and rare visits with one daughter (and language in the custody agreement that clarifies he can't be drunk around her), whose grandparents have custody of her, two weekends a month with a second son after making a huge deal about his mother being so abusive she's a danger to him, 3 DUIs, and a dog he abandoned 2-3 times. No one can ever convince me that Nathan is anything but worthless. He's no better than Jenelle. No redeeming qualities at all.

@GreatKazu, all states now have no fault divorce. I'd assume that's what they'll go for. The burden of proof is huge.

I got the sense that Javi was the one who ended up wanting the divorce. I wonder who will file.

@DoctorWhovian, it's tricky because in this case it's really irresponsible to do the "you have to carry things for yourself" parenting deal because, well, Ali actually shouldn't. But Miranda shouldn't be the one to set that precedent. Leah and Corey should, and they have actively worked against that, so I'm not sure why Leah thinks we'll just ignore that fact as an audience. The children's own mother and Miranda's own husband let Ali do a host of things she shouldn't do, so what, Miranda is supposed to magically know that and abide by it at all times while they aren't required to? That don't make no sense.