ReadMeLattice

No, just woken up.

Well yes, of course. I'm pointing out the toxicity of playing out actually awful moments in your life and your kids' lives as reality television/a juicy soap opera. I don't see who this could "help" as they all claim.

MTV. I don't think L&J were laughing. They always show these horrible moments as just juicy bits of drama.

They treated that as so funny and all I saw was a toxic marriage and child neglect...Things on this show are glossed over so quickly. "whoops, killed another animal!! Oh well!"

Yep. It's Adam's job to show his daughter who he is, not Chelsea's. And his parents have actually defended him to Chelsea and blamed her. Shows where he gets it. She was blamed before for talking to him too much, now he blames her for not contacting him enough. Her life can't revolve around Adam's current tantrum about how many texts Chelsea sends him.

Kail does have a lot of cute, genuine moments with her kids.

I don't think he's ever spent more than a week to ten days if that (and not for abuse, just for the lying to cops, threatening cops etc), I don't know what Jenelle has spent. I think it's about the same. If I ever want to commit felonies I'll definitely head over to South Carolina. I don't think he's had a hearing for the choking yet though. I'd think he was more capable of change if his life before and after Jenelle was any different...Some people get mixed up with the wrong crowd, but they can change. But he's been arrested more than Jenelle has since the split, and got DUIs and alcohol related arrests before and after her. He was only allowed supervised visits with his daughter for a while because he used alcohol and drugs around her, and she's being raised by her grandparents. His other ex had similar substance abuse problems. And now the stuff with abusing Jessica. For a while I thought he was doing better but he doesn't seem to work or go to any therapy, and he barely fought for Kaiser after talking big. I had high hopes (OK, medium) because I wish Kaiser had *someone* halfway decent like Jace does. Every kid needs *someone.*

I think it would take real consequences like substantial jail time and involuntary treatment to get him started. Something's very wrong in that brain of his. And he's never really had consequences.

I agree. It's likely a cultural thing, I know plenty people who eat like this. I'd venture to say much of America eats like this. Still sad to watch but I don't think it's actually very rare.

I agree, he seems to have some fondness (I don't know about "love" in the true sense, as in being willing to become a better person for someone, sacrifice for them and not harm them) for Kaiser. I do think at the end of the day, Nathan will always be first to Nathan. It's easy to look affectionate with a kid for a few hours. He won't stop beating women or getting trashed and arrested to give his children a better role model, though he may stop at some point when he actually serves time. I think he wanted a boy (a "little man," I shudder to think what would happen if Kaiser turned out feminine or gay) like Jenelle wanted a girl. I think she'll treat Ensley a bit better than the boys. From what we know he doesn't give a shit about his daughter, his female Jace, so I've always thought he wanted a spitting image of himself. Both of them are narcissists that way.

Don't forget calling the woman who just gave birth to your kid a fat stretch marked bitch! Let's see you give birth, Adam-boy!

As for Kail, she does look unhealthy. Feel weird saying much about it because I looked puffy and wide like that after several years of extreme depression, work stress and poor health choices. And I also have a history with eating disorders and so does Kail...People with that history can tend towards any kind of disordered eating when they're older, both too much and too little. All the surgery plus the comfort eating are looking addictive. I wish somebody would sit her down (all the girls) and say stop getting surgery, stop dating 50 people, stop bouncing from business to business, stop vacationing, stop shopping, stop buying animals, stop having more kids, just go to school or get a job and chill for a while and see who you become.

Ali seems smart. I could see her going to college if her health keeps up, except that neither of her parents seem to emphasize intellect or education (though maybe Corey does and we don't see it). I know several folks with muscular dystrophy with master's degrees. That is, if both girls don't end up pregnant at 14.

It seemed really insincere to me. He says anything to look good. He also said Jessica was the best person on earth, then after he was arrested for the second time for beating the crap out of her said she physically abused him throughout their relationship and he loved her but she was also horrible and it was the worst thing he'd ever experienced. Total "splitting" and victim tales. Dude is as cray as Jenelle.

Whoa...A fake card would be really harmful and destructive IMO, especially since 1) she's not stupid and would probably figure it out and 2) if she didn't now, it would be worse in a few years when she did. How hurtful that would be, and what bad role modeling to teach a kid to lie. And knowing Adam, he'd tell Aubree it was fake. And enough with the reminder texts. Chelsea's done it enough. It's been years and it's his kid's own birthday. Sad as it is, if he's a dick it's better for her to slowly get used to life without him. If Chelsea reminds him this year, won't she have to next year? And the next? Will she be reminding him when Aubree turns 30 or gets married? It has to end sometime. I'd be livid and extremely hurt if my mother faked that stuff to me or if I found out she'd basically harassed my dad to get him to fake caring about me. She's not crying her eyes out. She has Cole. Chelsea HAS told on him to his parents and they've yelled at and insulted her. How much more do you want this girl to do, and just how much of a begging doormat are we expecting her to be? If that was my mother I'd only get the message from that that men have no responsibility and don't need to treat anyone well. After all, I'd think, my mother basically laid down for it. Plus, Adam verbally abuses Chelsea, and she matters too. She doesn't need to be abused any more for the sake of her kid's faux temporary happiness. Calling him from a different number? He's requested she not contact him at all anymore. You're basically suggesting stalking an abusive man who is unpredictable, probably uses substances and has rage issues he could inflict on his ex or daughter. She doesn't deserve to be in harm's way any more than her daughter does.

I don't think dating people of color automatically means you're not racist. Kailyn has made racist comments in the past. I found that really confusing. I have to hope she was just really misguided and that she learned about the deeper implications of what she was saying in her college coursework. She does have a highly diverse group of friends. But yeah, if I had to guess who was *most* racist on this show, it would be Jeremy and Corey. I know we like Corey here, but a Confederate flag is a Confederate flag. And they have the least diverse and most ignorant surroundings.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: if these people were mature and intelligent enough to negotiate, they'd be candidates for an open relationship. If you both don't want to be monogamous...Just don't be! Problem solved and no more deer cam drama!! What makes even less sense to me is proposing to an actually monogamous girl after. Maybe he thinks if the girl is perfect enough, he'll keep it in his pants? I don't know. Just date around till your mid 30s or something, people, or be polyamorous.

Couples have sex on vacation (sometimes with dildos!) while their kids are at a resort activity...A guy might have a private moment in a bathroom while mom and kids are at breakfast...I doubt she's doing it in the bed with kids. As for Kailyn's abusive behavior, I wouldn't say it's *as bad* as Jenelle or Nathan because those two are seriously dangerous individuals with addiction problems. I honestly wouldn't put it past either of them to commit murder in a substance-abusing moment of rage. I would be fully scared for my life living in Jenelle's or Nathan's home. But she needs to take accountability for her anger and abusive issues. I thought she began to after the incident with Javi when she actually apologized and admitted to having a problem with past trauma and anger issues, but ended up right back where she started. She has a major problem being responsible for her actions.

I don't get the big deal about the vibrator either. Maybe it's weird to talk about it on TV but it's also weird to show your marital problems and children's tantrums and doctor's appointments and every parent on this show does that. I actually think showing the kids being upset because they don't have a dad or something is more exploitative...You can say whatever you want about your own masturbation habits. Your kids don't get a say when you shove them into reality TV to deal with complex emotions like Isaac watching parents go through a divorce, Aubree sad about her dad's neglect, Ali being shamed for her disability, or Jace calling his grandma Mommy. In a way I think all these parents should be ashamed for that.

I don't think anyone who breaks into someone's house to choke them twice has a single redeeming quality or should be allowed around children. I hate David as much as anybody but the fact that he's the current abuser doesn't make Nathan any less utterly worthless as a person. Nathan is more shifty in his moods...He's manic, then calm, then flies into a wild rage, depending on the day and his substance use. He can fake it a tad better on days he's not roided up or drunk. The unpredictability makes him more dangerous, not less. Just as I don't think Jenelle has redeeming qualities because I've occasionally seen real moments of understanding with her mom. Bitch is bad news, period. Should have no access to a child.

I definitely think that's true sometimes. I've seen the same excuses used for male abusers, though-- "she made him mad," "he was drunk," etc. Sometimes I think it's gendered and sometimes I think it's just in these circles, abuse is expected and you only call the cops when it gets really bad. From what I understand neither Jenelle nor any of her beaus have served any time for their abuse. Even the law seems to be lax. I'm more disturbed by Kail's racism. And Jeremy's. But Kailyn's has the potential to be more harmful because her kids are mixed race. I don't know if other cast members are racist. I'd assume Leah, Jenelle and Corey are but I don't know.

You're right, Leah could give Jeremy a run for his money. They have a similar "out in the holler, we don't use punctuation" writing style. Leah tends to write snippets rather than rants, though, to her benefit; I'd hate to be her writing instructor in college (I teach first-year writing at a university. I'm trying to imagine a Leah in my class...) Ever tried to get through a Jeremy Instagram rant?

We have a boxer/lab mix. He is a wonderfully trained, very smart service dog but boxers are stubborn (but loyal, and not aggressive) and he needed the full 2 years of training to obey all commands fully. He is very needy for companionship and tends towards anxiety that needs to be comforted by humans, which makes life as a service dog good for him because he's rarely alone. Leah should NOT have one. He will be abused and neglected. :(

Whoa, let's not bring glitter pens into this. They are a beautiful simple pleasure. Jeremy and Brooke are single on social media now. How many more women will he be engaged or married to before age 30 before he realizes he can't be faithful?

Omg <3 No one is a worse writer than Jeremy.