ReadMeLattice

No, I haven't. Oh no. :(

I have no sympathy for people who repeatedly sign up for a show and want the praise, attention, social media followers and money that come with it, but don't like the criticism and nosiness. Sorry y'all. Don't be on TV. Simple as that.

Finally got around to watching this-- hope they actually use the wheelchair at home. She's gotten worse with the falling because of her lack of use. Corey is in deep deep denial-- he's "seen improvement?" No, her activities are what are injuring her. I just really hope they listen to the doctor this time.

Nah, my naturally dirty blonde hair looks like that when it's damp, dirty, in darker lighting or hasn't been touched up in a while.

Sure. Any kid "might" who is adopted or is one of the many thousands born each year through surrogates, donor eggs and donor sperm to straight couples or gay couples. I guess we could quibble about why that matters (personally I don't see why it does any more than anything else they might want or are missing), but then we'd also have to judge people with infertility treatments, single people who choose to have kids knowing they will continue to be single, and the adoption agencies that don't allow gay people to adopt. "They know who those parents are" is not true for millions of kids of straight couples for various reasons. I'm not ready to think every single one of those straight couples shouldn't have had kids either. I just think that's 1) way early to be discussing in terms of Mariah and 2) an enormous moral issue that really only seems to come up and be concerning when gays are in the picture, even though in my experience gay couples are the ones, more than straight, who are likeliest to be close to their donors (many straight couples who use them hide that fact). It's also ludicrous that Meri pretended not to know when we all watched her go to a fertility specialist. She knows about IVF but not sperm banks? Sperm banks and donor eggs are part and parcel of the conversation once you get to the point of needing IVF. Passive aggressive to the max.

No, the topic was having a dad or not having a dad, and the *gender* of the parents. Not a false equivalence at all. Stated in a wildly homophobic way (that's not the "solution to a two-woman marriage"). Didn't know it needed a "solution." As for bio parents...I directly addressed that by saying many straight folks do the same thing. Maybe more. And many people want something different from their parents. Maybe they wish their parents weren't Mormon, weren't disabled, weren't an interracial couple, weren't divorced, weren't two guys or two girls, weren't young, weren't old, weren't uneducated, weren't religious, weren't drunk when they conceived by accident, weren't poor, weren't single parents. Are people owed that? And if so, we'll have to deal with about 80% of kids who want their parents to be different. Why does what they "want" suddenly only matter when it's a gay couple, when every bit of research shows it actually doesn't bother kids very much, while a lot of those other things do?

I haven't had time to watch the whole thing yet. Can someone tell me what Maddie said?

Sorry, won't let me remove this box. Or that she won't adopt? I don't get it either. I know many couples, gay and straight, who have great relationships with their donors or surrogates and have them as an "uncle" or "aunt" to the kids.

Over a third of kids of straight parents don't have dads in their lives. Maternal abandonment has also recently increased. The data on those situations shows that those kids suffer socially, academically, mentally and financially. The data on kids of stable lesbian and gay couples shows that they don't. Beyond that, a *majority* of children are now born outside of a committed union. Maybe straight people should worry about their own issues with parental abandonment before they worry about stable gay families. Also, many heterosexual couples and single people use donor sperm or surrogates for infertility. Straight and/or single older or infertile women often use donor eggs. Way more than you know, because many keep it secret (since they can because there's a man and woman in the picture). Are they equally wrong? Finally, if people truly only want gay couples to adopt and think using donor sperm or surrogates is wrong, perhaps they should fight against the rampant discrimination against gay couples by foster and adoption agencies, should also fight for adoption to be less of an enormous financial burden, and should fight against the workplace discrimination that causes many gay couples to be financially not as well off as straight ones. Condemning people who work with the few options they've got doesn't seem to work.

Omg don't get me started...People have these obsessions with images in their mind and we're supposed to cater to them. My husband had a PhD and a law degree when he got married, worked full time teaching college, had published widely and worked in theatre on the side. But because he is in a wheelchair, there was drama over him "not standing at the altar." Even though he was getting married, is now a dad, and is more accomplished than most of the "devastated" family members. Their comments devastated him. Particularly around things like marriage and kids, we have these weird particular cultural things (like walking down the aisle) that *must* happen and people don't understand how their total obsessions with those particular things can hurt others. And we're expected to pity and cater to the people with those obsessions.

Like @CofCinci said, I have no doubt that homophobic comments were made after the JO revelation. We know they were in the media, at the very least. That must have been difficult to watch while figuring out you're gay.

I disagree. Meri's feelings are of little importance about another adult's sexuality. What if their kids "just expressed their feelings" about how uncomfortable they are with their parents being polygamists? Maybe that's not what THEY would prefer. But guess what, it's not their business even if it's their family. I am a mom and I'd be disgusted with myself if I acted the way Meri did. This is not about Meri in any way. But she made it all about herself. If she needs to "adjust," that's fine I guess, but it's inherently demeaning and implies disappointment, and she shouldn't expect a positive or warm reaction from her daughter. She can "adjust" on her own time. Mariah owes her nothing in the meantime. When she wants to fully accept her, they can move on. She doesn't have to be subjected to her mother's moaning. Meri found a way to make this all about herself. If her daughter is a brat, she definitely learned from the best. Meri is somehow an expert at making every situation about her emotions. And if she had such specific expectations, that's on her. I have no expectations for what my kids' relationships will be like or if or when they will have kids. That's narcissistic IMO. That's all up to them.

Every single study done on gay parents says that a father (or, for that matter, a mother) makes no difference. In some ways kids of gay parents are even better adjusted than kids of straight parents. So while one can have one's personal opinion about the gender of parents mattering, that opinion is only about one's personal feelings and is not supported by the wealth of research done on the issue. And it IS awesome to come out! So freeing.

Yeah, Nathan is the roid rage, "can smell the DV from a mile away" type. David is more the "quietly control your life and then snap" type. Such lovely choices for dads! I also found the Nathan/Jessica interactions fascinating considering that 4 months or so after this, he was arrested for choking her (time #1). Their relationships deteriorate so quickly from lovey dovey to aggravated DV charges. Re: Maci, I know this is the Jenelle thread but she pisses me off. I'm pregnant right now and 1) can't even have cold medication without feeling guilty and 2) feel so sick that a drink sounds truly disgusting anyway. Who are these girls that they're fertile through PCOS, 67 abortions and birth control, and then drink and smoke throughout their pregnancies with zero consequences?

Hey, better than Maci's!

Omg. Two videos here. 1) Nathan can't speak English, and 2) is Jenelle actually seeming reasonable these days or am I crazy? Like wtf, she is compromising and being polite and measured?!?!! http://starcasm.net/archives/363344

Jeez! These poor people!! When you're done raising your own kids, you should be done!

Courtland. Gary was one of the engagements, not the pregnancies as far as we know.

@lezlers, I am still dumbfounded by that "trial." Everything else in the episode blurs for me, it was truly bewildering, like the real hearing was about to start any moment. Although it answers my questions about how the fuck Jenelle, Nathan and co have managed to get away with their crimes so many times...

Does anyone else get creeped out when they show the past "cute" videos with all the "dads?" They show that clip of Jace coming out in the pilot outfit over and over and Nathan saying "what's up, Top Gun?" And all I can think is, "hey he choked a woman twice in her home and doesn't have custody of either of his kids." And they show clips of Kieffer, "hey he did a lot of heroin and bitched about Barbara caring for his gf's abandoned kid." David, "hey he beat up a pregnant woman and left her on the road!" Andrew, "hey a deadbeat dad who impregnated a 16 year old and abandoned his child!" Like wtf, I know we're supposed to just be looking at the kids but I just feel bad for them and think about how their mom and many "dads" have all failed him.

I mean he *does* look like Frankenstein...

I don't get the dudes all being irritated with filming stuff. Adam, Jeremy, Ryan, they all bitch and moan about filming-- don't impregnate random girls, particularly not ones on TM (well that one only applies to Jeremy), and/or don't sign up for the show...Problem solved.

Oh, NATHAN'S mother, I read it as KAISER'S mother. What a relief. This is probably good. She has custody of his other kid, now she has to supervise his visits with this one. I feel bad for whoever she is. And Barb. Although I suppose they (and the dads) had a hand in creating these monsters.

I have Lisa Frank leggings that remind me of childhood. They're hideous and I'm not sorry.

Supposedly the visits must be supervised by Jenelle. My secret hope is that this means Nathan just won't have visits at all...Not because I don't want Kaiser to have a dad but because the two of them being present around him seems like all kinds of explosive...