ReadMeLattice

I guess, but I grew up in a highly restrictive & abusive atmosphere/religion as well (and knew many others who did too). Not quite as bad in terms of religion, but worse in abuse, and Meri isn't isolated and hasn't been for a very long time. She could have gone back to school like she planned. She was supported. She has work experience, some money, a paycheck from a show, lives in a city with many jobs and many men. She's not kept by others or by finances from traveling, studying, or working. That's more than many people have. Not pregnant, no kids except one grown one, no physical abuse or control at home-- in fact, your husband isn't even around you. They're clearly not very religious any more, not influenced by church members. Your past will affect you, but IMO at some point you are responsible for your own choices. Kody was close to her age and no more worldly or knowledgeable when they married.

But *she* believes she is fully married. I don't think my opinion about her relationship arrangement and agreements and whether they are valid matters more than hers. Just like polyamorous people can cheat. If they agree only to have sex with 2 other specific people but go outside of that, they are cheating. It doesn't only happen in monogamy. Also, the Browns don't think legal marriage means anything. Only spiritual marriage.

100%. At some point they both have to take responsibility, be honest with each other and move on. Meri is just as manipulative as Kody is egotistical. Maybe some believe that's "because of polygamy," and it might exacerbate it, but sorry, based on her behavior with her sister wives, daughter, businesses and catfish, I think that's just who she is and who she'd be no matter what. The money, the houses, the wet bar...That's not 100% due to polygamy. And even if it was, letting 6 kids you're supposedly going on TV to say you "see as your own" possibly go hungry because you want an equal budget for no reason, makes you a shitty person. It might be because of jealousy but the kids aren't responsible for your stupid religion and marital problems.

I could barely watch this, though I suffered through. Mariah is really coming across differently now, a lot more self confident and mature. She must have struggled for a long time. And wow, SO MUCH MERI. I'm so over hearing about the catfish and Meri this and Kody that and this crumbling marriage. Get a divorce people, or don't, but please don't make me watch you anymore!!!! If I was one of the other wives I'd be SO irritated. They basically don't exist. I felt bad for Meri previously but now she just seems narcissistic. What about Janelle and Christine's pain? They had to be mistreated by Kody AND Meri's bitchy self from day 1. I get that she was 19 but does that mean she is NEVER responsible? I got married at 21 to another dumb 21 year old for similar, though not quite as extreme (but almost, just not polygamous), religious and infatuation reasons. It was stupid and we BROKE UP. I'm only in my late 20s now but even at this point it would be my fault if I was still in it. Grow up, Meri. I felt a little bad for Kody about the cheating but now I can't stand him either. Focus on anything, anything but the non-relationship between these two narcissists.

@heatherchandler, actually that travel advisory only applies to certain areas of Mexico, not Mexico in general. Crime rates in various areas are updated every year, and most parts of the country are considered safe. Incidentally, areas of the U.S. have travel advisories from several other countries (such as the Bahamas), especially those considered racist or where there is a lot of crime and/or police brutality.

I have read that Jenelle tweetstorm three times now and I definitely still don't get it.

Yeah, I just think Ger-bear should take the plank out of his own eye. He's likely a Christian. Elizabeth Smart was raped daily in the name of faux-Mormonism, kids have died because parents beat them mercilessly due to a misinterpretation of the Bible, and just last week a dad and 13-year-old son said they used the Bible as justification to repeatedly rape a girl they kidnapped. Plenty to be afraid about right here, unfortunately.

The custody stuff is so complex. I don't think it's the judges' fault because for every actually negligent parent, how many co-parents/exes want to bitterly drag every parenting mistake and every misstep into court, or even make ones up that didn't happen, just for revenge? So it certainly can't be based on one or two incidents unless very very egriegous. It's hard to establish a pattern and prove it. I'm glad they don't just hand the kid over to whomever seems to be doing well at the time. But that means some bad behavior is overlooked.

Lol @ChocolateAddict "sacrificed to the gods" omg omg

Omg...She's one of those people who would count the $10 in 1's you gave her. That poor poor child. I'm already afraid for her.

Mexico is pretty wheelchair accessible in my experience. Not perfect but nowhere is yet. I don't think they care though...I'm sure Ali was immediately surfing and playing T-ball on the beach, lol.

Wait you mean Kaiser? Sorry got confused. If you do, then yeah...Two violent, selfish addicts for parents. What's the opposite of the genetic lottery?

Yeah, it's certainly not an either/or question. Did Leah's mom and dad suck as parents or is it her fault she sucks so hard? And! Is Jeremy a racist hick or is Leah an irresponsible shitshow? And! Is Miranda the most fully responsible and mature person in this bunch, or is the dead cat the luckiest member of the family? And!

I know WE know that, and I agree. But would Jeremy ever have freaked out this much about a trip within the U.S., or to another country mostly populated by white people? I doubt it. Btw do we know if WVSU is Leah's school? Charleston, WV, where the school is, has one of the highest violent crime rates nationwide. Idk if that's where she goes though. Of course, if I were Leah's partner I might be arrested for kidnapping myself, cause I'd find it really hard not to take them over state lines and not look back.

Riviera Maya is like 10x nicer and safer than their area. And to insinuate that Mexicans are going to kidnap their kids...Just gross. How is the risk of kidnapping any higher than on any other trip? Oh right BROWN PEOPLE.

I just mean that I don't happen to think that was the main reason for this particular freakout. Racism was at least partially involved IMO.

Yeah, I mean, the vast majority of the drug trade in Mexico exists because Americans are so hooked on them and willing to pay.

I'm not buying Jeremy's concern is driven by much but racism. For people mentioning drugs...Honestly, I live near the border and have been to Mexico and I've also been to the meth-addled, mostly white, similar-to-Leah's-kinfolks' town where my parents live. Guess where I was more afraid? You'd be better off in most parts of Mexico in terms of lack of drug availability, guns, violence and general sordidness than among Leah and Jeremy's particular acquaintances, who often look high or drunk, have multiple parents of various kids and think it's cute for toddlers to pose with weapons. West Virginia has some of the highest rates of illiteracy, crime, and drug use and abuse in the country. There are bad parts of Mexico just like here. They don't live amongst Harvard grads in a small college town in Vermont, they live in one of the most dangerous states in the country and partake in plenty of guns-n-drugs themselves. It's just pure racism and a belief in some "Mexican gangs and drug lords" stereotypes on Jeremy's part. Or producer driven drama. Or both. And yes, I'd be nervous about Leah going anywhere with my kids, but Jeremy doesn't seem to have an issue with her having Addie most of the time, so...

Yeah, while she was obviously hiding the pregnancy, I think *some* of the confusion is because she's so short. I'm less than 5' with a similar body type, and currently pregnant. Some days I am so much bigger after eating big meals for a couple days that I actually think my bump is finally here. Other days, after light eating or a few days of morning sickness, I'm completely flat-stomached. She may or may not have been pregnant in a lot of those pics. The bump isn't really a good way to tell for a lot of people. For me, her pregnancy was obvious not because of the bump but because it had been more than 6 months of dating and soulmateness and well, that's her M.O.

I think she was asking him about a long term career, not if he would be in the military at all.

And Robyn plays the victim sooooo intensely.

That could be equally possible. Meri strikes me as scarily manipulative. Even in her catfish situation, she was deeply needy, even controlling. How many voicemails in a few months? Hundreds? Thousands? Most of them sobbing and yelling? Towards a man she'd never met? If she's that way with strangers, imagine what she was like as a young infatuated girl. I can see the possibility of Jenelle being the primary villain but honestly she often seems too spineless to have courted behind someone's back. What is she, a seductress? It's a Mormon thing. They taught us to do it in church.

I agree. Sometimes what we see at this point is the aftermath. Meri often seems emotionally abusive in general but most of all to Jenelle. Not saying it's actually OK, but how much of that is due to old stuff Jenelle and Kody did, and not just Meri being a bitch? Meri's only problem is blaming only the woman and not the husband. But there might be old hurt there that we will never know about. I feel similarly about Mariah...She sometimes seems bitchy to her mom but after 20+ years of living alone with and being raised by Meri "wet bar" Brown, you just might be too...

Yeah, this is always tough for me. I know several people who are in polyamorous relationships in which they either have multiple long term life partners or are free to date whomever alongside a primary partner. Very different from "swingers," etc. They also have jealousy and work through it. I am very jealous so would never want to do it. However, seems to be different in a few ways...1) they all have equal rights to other partners and it's not gendered. One woman I know has a legal wife and a man she considers her husband in every way but legally, and both the wife and husband have outside dating lives with both men and women. So it's not an inherently patriarchal, heterosexual arrangement that basically suggests women are inferior. 2) it's not religious. They've decided those relationship patterns work for them and they can love more than one person. If they were to go outside their arrangements, it *would* be cheating, it's not a free for all but very organized. But there's no religious pressure to get into eternal heaven with your partners. Divorce is an option and God isn't involved. 3) They don't have to creepily hide their affection from the others. That suggests a major insecurity and basically a desire to be monogamous from all the wives. 4) it isn't all about making babies, so there's no disproportionate attention to spouses with more kids. That breeds resentment. So while I'm all about choice and not being judgmental, it seems like without those factors, Mormon polygamy will always be unequal and inherently unfair, unlike other kinds of multiple partner arrangements or life choices. I'd feel more accepting of, say, a group of three people who all wanted to marry each other and more willing to think that legislation should allow them to do so if it wasn't based on religious pressure and male dominance in every way. I have a hard time feeling bad for the Brown women in particular because all of them seemed to go after Kody pretty aggressively, so they definitely made a choice. They also all proclaim to belong to this religion and believe it wholeheartedly, and they are on a show about being proud polygamists. So I don't feel too much sympathy for them in particular. But this is one unhealthy relationship arrangement. And many people don't have the power and resources the Browns would have if they wanted to leave. I feel bad for them.

Nathan is in jail currently for 10 days btw, according to public records. He pled guilty to lying to law enforcement.