NutMeg

The same challenge was in TAR Asia. One team managed after many, many tries - and they could have opted out, for them it was a detour and they were your typical average contestant. Here, the cyclists could have bailed out quickly and gone back to the regular tasks. They had an ealier flight and were very good at tasks, for them the FF was really boom or bust.

Sorry if this is off topic, but what was that lawsuit about and how did it concude?

I also liked tha the FF was hard (for once!) but I really love that you brought up Nick's grandfather, because indeed with him any task could have been deemed unfair - he had done them all before! And I floved him for it. Back to the conspiration theory, let me remind you that in TAR Asia this task was a detour! and two other tasks were lifted from that same led of TAR Asia. So no, I don't buy that it was meant to advantage one team. (Especially one that had a 40 min disadvantage to get there, just based on flights). On the other hand, I remember in past seasons thinking "oh, if so and so team were still here, they would have rocked this task", so yeah, things are or not in your ballpark, and sometimes you happen on them but most often than not you don't. Me, who had never heard of Bethany before this, I was looking forward to seeing her on a board - and she didn't disappoint, she could illustrate steadfast in the dictionary as far as I'm concerned. The cyclists got spooked by the W turn. If not for it, being on the first flight, they would have most likely beaten the others teams through the tasks. This is an example of a team making a bad decision, or rather one team member forcing her opinion on the other - as she had done pretty much during the whole race, has she not? - not a reason to cast suspicion on race design, methinks (race design has plenty of flaws, but favoritism is not one of them, for me).

Very interesting point of view of seeing this as a domino effect rather than two separate occurences, which is how I have somehow viewed it until now. Thanks for the refocus :-)

The wording is weird but as I remember it, it worked the same way as it did here. Granted, my memory about these things can get fuzzy, but I remember a team making a gazillion attemps because one of the two couldn't cut it. (Maybe it means they BOTH had to do it for two minutes at the same time?) About the massage: I'd love it if once, just once, it was a lovely, soothing, relaxing massage, but nodody took it because they expected this kind or horror.

Thanks for the wrestling lingo, CrashText, you confirm an inkling I had that they behave as wrestlers would/should in the context of wrestling. That "full heel turn on" was a good move for wrestlers, as it's acceptable (or even worthy of applause) in their daily life, so their behaviour is actually enhancing their life after the race. On the other hand, it would not enhance the image after the race of cowboys, globetrotters or plenty others. I also agree with you that the fast forward was so suspenseful because it was such high stakes, for once.

I've since looked it up, the tasks were seen in TAR Asia 4, leg 11. Here are the descriptions, from wikipedia:

I've lived in Singapore for a few years now and it was nice to see it on TAR. Call me evil, but I got a kick of seeing reactions to the masage - people always look at me funny when I tell tell how painful it is, so I like being validated :-) Although this scrub looked like something else ;-( And having seen the back of a friend who'd done the cup things, I know these bruises will take a while to disappear, but apparently they don't hurt. Most of the task were directly lifted from an edition of TAR Asia: the rope walking, the chili crabs and the wave surfing. Jim impressed the hell out of me with how he reacted to his mishap on the rope. Me, I would have been hyperventilating for days... Sorry to see the cyclists go, but at this stage and liking all the teams* I would have been sorry for any team eliminated. In a way, it even adds to the suspense, as those two seemed such strong contenders for F3. I like surprises, so can't complain. *Yes, even the wrestlers - I'm taking Brooke as an OTT cartoon character, a stereotype of "baddie", which fits with my idea of wrestlers in general, so I'm not really annoyed by her shenanigans. I wouldn't want to hang out with her, but if she wants to play the cartoonish villain to get more facetime and increase her profile in a way she can benefit from in her chosen profession, I have no problem with that. Maybe her behaviour would bother me if she worked in a different field. Thanks for those who explained that Adam is not a professional surfer. He looks and talk so much like the typical "surfer dude" that I just assumed he was :-)

Usually we have two TC in a one hour format, so that gives me hope that these will be good episodes, if they didn't feel the need to reduce them to one hour top (when condensed in one hour, it's usually expected/logical/boring eliminations, such as Pagonging, isn't it?)

Didn't they forget "Wanna know what you're playing for?" ? Thanks Turtle for that article, very interesting.

I like all the teams left, including the Wrestlers - Brooke cracks me up as a cartoonish character, particularly when she starts complaining about things we know (as in every cartoon) will turn right for her/her team. I suspect when/if she stops complaining is when that team will/would be eliminated. After seeing interaction betweem cyclists ans dentists previously, it's interesting to see that overall team dentist is liked more by other contestants than team cyclists. It's not a huge surprise, as we've seen team dentists help other teams in the past, but it's interesting that editing is showing it to us now. Methings it means cyclists will be Uturned next week.

Thanks, will check it out as soon as a window opens in my schedule :-)

No, but you're picking my interest. Worth watching?

It seems to me that the nuts gate ot whatever it was called was manufactured purely to provide the casual viewer for a reason to explain Julie wanting to quit. Notice how not once did we see both Kulie and rest of the tribe when nuts were mentioned. Way I see it, Julie had many reasons to want out - namely: 1) after initially getting on well with her tribemates, she hears two or more of them scream fury and anathem at her guy. Yes, she knows he's controversial, but I don't think she has ever witnessed anyone she likes being so vocal to and about him (if people she loves did, that does not count; mother, brother, etc. can say what they think about my guy, I'll tell them they're full of shit and will still love them; new colleague or casual acquaintance does the same and they're dead to me). And to add insult to injury, most of them don't care how it affected her - only one (was it Keith?) thought of asking "you ok, Julie?" after they were back at camp. I hope it was Keith, he might be bad at Survivor but he's my fave out there I think :-) bless his heart! 2) and afterwards she continues to be treated as a leper. Come merge time, when everyone was hugging, I noticed her twice looking aroung, no hugs coming her way, only back to her. Tough. 3) then with the comments we're supposed to think were about nuts ("shhhh") and her mentioning to Jeff comments about her boobs, I suspect some people with mouth diarrhea (one of the brothers eliminated or still in the game) or a nasty persona (was it Missy who said something like "does she think she's better than us"?) did make comments about that and it wasn't shown but also wasn't lost on her. And FWIT, I never heard her say the tribemates hated her because she was beautiful, my understanding was they made fun (behind her back, most likely) about her various enhancements, and that's what she was obliquely referring to when saying she took care of herself/her body. 4) so with no ally, no support, and only fake sympathy from people who didn't like her and saw her as a vote in their pocket, and without any affinity for the game that would drive her to become the uber-manipulatrix, there was a certain beauty in her saying screw that, screw them, I want out and I will be out of here now. And I thought it was the most dignified "quit" I've ever seem. Not passive, not agressive, but assertive for once, and came from a core sense of strenght rather than weakness. About Jeff's reactions to quitters, I suspect a lot is based on info he gets from filming at camp. I remember how he was super nice with someone (Kathy?) who quit in fans vs. favs, and it later transpired that she had threatened to mutilate herself if she couldn't get out. If his leniency or lack thereof is based on what he sees from camp, I'm assuming Julie may have been subjected to some verbal abuse, intended or not, and that might explain why she was away from the others as much as she could (starting from the episode John was the verbal target of her tribe). In a sense there is poetic justice that she's getting back at Jeremy and Natalie, the most vocal about John, and leaving them outnumbered at the mercy of an alliance including either Josh or Baylor, the real catalysts behind the eliminations of both Val and Nadiya. Jeff's talk with Julie made me laugh - he was channeling Oprah, Dr. Phil, and probably his own self when he had his show. It's not that his concern was bad or anything, it just seemed so weird in the context of Survivor to have this kind of one-on-one.

We can think that now that we've seen what followed Jimmy's death, but I for one who have had screamed bloody murder at the time if they had recast Jimmy :-) Drunk or not, Pitt was an amazingly endearing tortured soul and had incredible chemistry with ANYONE he shared the screen with, and I'm sure I would have been disappointed with any replacement.

The funny thing is that people seem much nicer overall this season - and part of me believes that last season, all the helping was because people wanted to appear nice, but somewhat it translated as fake. Whereas this time, people seem to be more genuine, and we have some great moments here and there that translate as very real (the singing at the goat milking task showing Adam/Bethany, Bikers and Wrestler teams all having good fun together, Wrestler lady's sincere (to me) "well done" to the teams that finished ahead of them, etc.) So now with the mother/daughter team out I like everyone left. While in theory there are clearly 3 top teams and 3 average teams, anything can happen in TAR (bad day, bad taxi driver, vehicule breakdown, as well as challenge playing to one person's skillset, super taxi driver, helpful local with no life that day willing to be kidnapped until pitstop), and I'm not ruling out any of the weaker teams making final 3 or even winning - it's all happened before!

This show has ceased to be good some time ago and I am no longer hoping for any improvement. This campaign story is isolating Alicia from the other lawyers and clients, and Flynn/Flint (?) is not a good replacement for her drink buddies of the past. One thing that makes sense in the story is that both Alicia and Cary are increasingly showing gaunt faces - Alicia has noticeably aged this season and I was struck in this episode how Cary now looks very gloomy and has been for a while. It makes sense with all the stress he is under in the story, I just hope it doesn't reflect the actor's disappointment with the show too :-) Thankfully, there was this one smile when he saw Kalinda, so i know the long face has not become permanent and can be reversed in an instant! Who knew you could find so many genius lawyers in suburbia. A twelve year gap seems to work wonders, especially now that the previously great have considerably declined :-( Must be something in the water...

thank you both :-)

Sorry if this is not the right thread. but I don't see where else to ask - why has Witches of East End disappeared from the main forum page? Is it because the show has not been renewed or because it's not on right now (which doesn't seem likely as Mad Men, for instance, is still on the forum page, despite not being on right now).

Avaleigh, your post about Tommy and the Depression now makes me see him as a young Dick Whitman. And when Mad Men retuns, in any flashback, I'll see Tommy Darmody :-) Great post, by the way, but this/part of this should have been shown or at least hinted at. When viewers' creations are more interesting than those of the scriptwriters, I think that's proof that the script was not very strong. And in a series as good as this one has been, I hate that there are false notes in the finale...

I'm starting to think the Kings are actually thinking about the viewers and don't want them to be too sad when this clusterfuck, sorry, formerly awesome show, comes to an end. So they're progressively killing off our favorite characters, either litterally (Will), symbolically (Elsbeth, Cary, Diane to some extent) or contractually (be happy for Archie Panjabi, she's escaping this mess, you guys!). So basically they've realized they've painted themselves in a corner and at this stage even the good will accumulated in how many seasons will not be enough to keep me (not sure about you all) watching - unless there's really nothing else to watch. I really hope I'm right, because the alternative is very depressing after the fantastic start we had for a few seasons here.

No chance for that people, not only does JM not want any interaction with AP, but alas AP is leaving the series, so fanwalk away but i'd say don't include Alicia in the picture.

Very good points about Tommy's life after we stopped seeing him and also, this makes sense as a kid can be torn between loyalties, I had never considered it, but yes indeed - and that could explain A LOT.

Even more proof that he wasn't steered by [the current time] Gillian. (Edited for typo)

happy the thread is not closed, as I never read spoiler but am always intested afterwards to see what I would have been spoiled about. I "liked" a few posts because I like the thinking, even in cases when the outcome was different.