NutMeg

In finance, you pretty often see debtors negotiating xx cents to the dollar. Granted, it happens more often with country or corporate debtors than individuals, and it usually means this-is-what-I-can-afford-without-going-bankrupt, so take it or risk losing it all. As a former banker, I'd say it it a pretty shrewd move by Nucky.

Thank you ProfCrash for posting these info, very interesting indeed. Please keep bringing the summaries, and thank you very much indeed:-) Otherwise, I'm with NetFoot: these clips from the CBS website cannot be read out of the US - despite the episode being boadcast on cable TV here, on a channel that I pay to be able to watch.

If I were making the rules, I'd have ruled that if the last team uses the save the one who came just before gets eliminated. If you wanna go evil with Survivor tools, go evil all the way! and forget the NEL while you're at it, TBC are more satisfying to me :-)

Sorry, meant title quote, will go back and edit/

Seeing how the Canadian version has plenty of fans, I'll bring up the Asian version, which for once I've enjoyed more that the US version. Sure it had its flaws, but the cast was more diverse, the challenges more, well, challenging, and I was never mad with the winners! It's now been on the shelve for a while because the host is hosting the China version, but TBH when it was on I liked it way better that the US version, which I found rather lackluster in comparison. Obviously, I'm still here, but the editing/new features seem to copy Survivor more and more, and I liked TAR better when it was its own show. YMMVv, etc.

I feel like he's never watch the show or if he did, it was casually at best - some of you will know that casual viewers have sometimes no idea of the dynamic AT aLL. I was very surprised that he didn't express at least some kind of appreciation for "his woman" - but then again they haven't been been married for decades a la Culpepper household. Then again, it's probably better that he didn't, for her sake As I said in the episode threat, I like Julie so far, and she threw him a good one with sending him with Jeremy - too bad he didn't capitalize on the potential aliance, but good for him on getting the idol - THANKS TO A GIRL, you know. [sorry for shouting, couldn't hept it :-( ]

Despite the title quote not being theirs, I thing it could be attributed equally to describe Val's and John's actions...

Read on the TAR forum than Hayden/Cat were supposed to be on this season of TAR and didn't make it because they broke up - if they had, Hayden would have been the first to appear on the three - although if we're talking triple crown, he should have a few more appearances before he gets there :-)

Sorry to see Val go, but she brought it on herself - the pretending to have 2 idols is bad enough, but to pretend to a guy that just spent enough game quality game with your husband that said husband gave him the clue and told him to work with you - I'm very disappointed because I was hoping for a sharing of the clues - she knows there are clues out there, she knows that her husband shared his clue with John, she couldn't find out where the idol was, hello!!! Still waiting for the time the rock-paper-scissors winning team put up someone with no "loved one" in the game. Could Nathalie have chosen her opponent? So far I'm still relatively ok with the gimmick, but it's wearing thin, I was ok with it for the first episode but would like a real tribal challenge sooner than later. Jeff's "John not doing well, who could have seen that coming", or some equivalent, had me both mentally face-palming and waving "me, me". With this kind of challenge, I'd always bet on the one taking a deep, slow breath (does she do yoga? anyway, she knows how to focus) over the jock working his neck muscles. Oh Jeff :-( And in that regard, notwithstanding her choice of men (but then again, she's just dating him, and who here never made a dating mistake?), I kind of like Julie. I also like the 3 times divorced mum and felt for her big time in the immunity challenge. Not surprised she lost, and that is NOT a judgment on her physical abilities. I agree with her tribemates' sympathy with Nathalie - "it's tough to see a tough girl cry". [based on my personal experience] Back to Jeff - after the tougher match up then, Nathalie/Val, he has the gall to say that the John match up is the biggest battle that far? Don't remember his exact word but "another big battle coming" would have been more appropriate wording (unless of course broadcasting didn't show the actual sequence, in which case I eat my words and apologize for thinking the worst of Jeff). So far, I don't like Baylor, who seem very manipulative to me. Good on her though with surviving the vote, even if a big part of that was not thanks to her own actions/words but more to Val sabotaging herself. ETA: jzgayle, I agree with you in that for once (in a long while) the idols have to be dug up. Big improvement in my book.

Thank you, all of you writing in this forum! The snark here alone would keep me watching, if this show wasn't my guilty pleasure - you never know how bad it will get in a so-bad-it's-fun way, and sometime it still surprises! Ambrose something looked like an early version of Jack the Ripper - he didn't cut his victims, but he seemed to target prostitutes or those he saw as prostitutes, didn't he? Maybe in his next incarnation, Killian will be (possessed by the spirit of) a traveling to America Jack - before he evolves into Helen Keller, of course, that is gold and I don't want to miss it!

ElectricBoogaloo, thanks, these are fantastic and I cracked up repeatedly. I must have missed some of these the first time around - great fun!

I remember them from Survivor and, had their team not been Pagonged, I think they would have had been in a pretty good position, if say Cochran had agreed to pair with Ozzy when the latter ofered, and Jim had been targeted (Whitney's position in particular would have been strong, as ladies seem not to be targeted right away comes merge time). I know, shoulda, woulda, etc., but in this case I think there was indeed a pretty convincing potential scenario under what happened. And it explains Whitney's going ballistic on Cochran because he DID usher the end of her game and I think she's savvy enough to have realized it.

Some people (such as penbenn) raised the issue, but for me the big elephant in the room was what Cary actually said. I know, we're supposed to root for him, and I like him alright, but when you represent drug dealers, why oh why would you discuss (tape or no tape) potential way for "hypothetical drug dealers" to get around rules and not be caught. Maybe I've missed something, but to me either Cary is an idiot or he's complicit. Either way, I thing the writing was off, I don't think that is what I was supposed to get. Interesting conundrum Kalinda is faced with: give the name of the guy you really want to survive and risk having him killed? give the name of the guy you really want to survive and risk having the other one killed? give the name of the guy you do not need and hope he's the one who's killed? Because it's Kalinda, I trust that she'll make the best judgment call but really, with Bishop, anything goes! Not sure how this new LG reboot without Will but with Cary will go. If it means we have David Lee as opposing counsel every week, I'll like it. If it does create a wedge between Cary/Alicia, I won't. And what about Kalinda? I suppose she will follow, but she might not, her reasons for not switching might still be valid - time will tell. Please, please, Kings, don't make Alicia run, or if you have to (because Alicia/Eli interactions are always gold), please wait until next season. I'm way more interested (and invested) in the new firm than in any other potential campaign.

They were so dumb that I wouldn't have minded if they had stayed - they were great comic relief!

I liked the episode a lot, especially the Nucky/Margaret interaction, but what was the point of killing Sally so suddenly? As far as I'm concerned, I've been intrigued by her character but not really involved in it, so it doesn't affect me at all. (Was I supposed to be? I would have been way more affected with a killing of "Muller", but I'm weird like that...).

I hadn't heard about her before but was very impressed when she climbed the net at the rock with apparently no problem - I was worrying about it when I understood both team members had to do it, then she started, phone rang, I was away for 5 seconds and she had done it. So I still don't know how that is physically possible (did she wrap her legs around the ropes or something? how DO YOU climb this with one arm!?), but major kudos to her!

I'd be happy to match your watching, but it has to be during a quiet time for me - I'm a freelancer so not much visibility, except I usually take a break during school holidays. Would love to watch it again, as I binge watched, which is never good for pondering :-) so will be sure to be in touch when I do in case you are about to rewatch too. In the past, whenever I binge watched something, I always made a point to check TWOP forums between each episode, and not only was it very insightful but it also slowed down my "appetite" and made me enjoy each step/episode much more. Something I've missed while watching The Borgias [as well as House of Cards, sorry it's off topic, but the experience of wanting to read others' viewpoint was the same)..

Poor Steven Berkoff (Savonarola on The Borgias) went from playing an incredibly fanatic historical character to playing an incredibly fanatic imaginary character as king Unicorn (my spelling and I stand by it ;-) ...). Some people are just born to play incredibly fanatic characters, it seems.

Welcome ABay, and yes indeed the first episode was so good, which is why those who watched it stuck around. Please come back when you see more, you might provide the right impetus for episode discussion. In the meantime, enjoy, lucky you, you're in for a delightful time :-)

I have to read about the rulers of Naples - how sick was this Last Supper obsession? And because the one by Da Vinci wasn't done yet (as far as I know, hadn't checked the dates, but seems likely if he was still more of a "weapon designer"), there's no way to know who the dear son was representing. Any good books you can recommend? I'll trade you some good sources on Medici history, if you're interested!

Steven Berkoff (Savonarola) is on The Witches of East End season 2, episodes 10 and 11 so far (don't judge me, I have some guilty pleasure too and I kind of like witches:-)...). As an aside, I've always thought that he was miscast for the role of Savonarola as he didn't look anything like him and that Colm Feore (cardinal della Rovere) would have looked the part much more, but they both made it work nonetheless.

Nah, these were READING glasses, he's still probably able to read anything standing at 2m from him :-)

Good question, Evenshorter - never saw it happen, but technically what is stopping a team that hasn't checked in yet for going back? (Unless they first have to pass production control of passport/fanny packs etc. before they check in and we don't see it but at the point they meet Phil they cannot go back? Anyone knows?)

My immediate impression, and I had never heard of the guy.

Good first episode overall. Not hating anyone yet, no one had hugely disproportionate amount of screen time, there are no returning players, Redemption Island is gone and we're back to two challenges per episodes, so I'm happy. As a player, I would have kept "known entity" Nadiya - because she would have been an asset in challenges, is tone deaf enough to potentially alienate people so easy boot later on and hasn't seemed to hold a grunge in the past (she may have a short fuse, but she very quickly gets back to happy mode, and could have been a good person to have on the jury, as she gets that it's-a-game). Still, I understand why she was chosen as a target by Dale. I don't buy his reasoning and I think that it was more an anybody but me strategy and he was wise to approach multiple people at once, because all these were also thinking anybody but me at that stage and it made it easier for him to get a consensus. Still, while Wes gets flack (rightfully so) for spelling her name wrong, Dale actually called her Nathalie while the Nadiya necklace was staring at him in the face! On the topic of clothing, I think production gives the rawest deal to women. Some men are lucky enough to be sent on the island with a suit - that's two layers of upper body clothing! But the ones who are really allowed to choose their own gear, I think, are the returning players, especially ii seasons when they are mixed with newbies and if they are production favorites, it's the (not so) subliminal way of TPTB to tell us that THESE are smart people who thought ahead about what they were going to wear for maximum clothes performance! (Think Stephenie in Guatemala, first example that spring to mind). Now some mysteries remain: 1) why Josh voted for Baylor. My theory is that he was testing her - if she votes with him, N goes home; if she doesn't, tie, and he breaks it on revote; problem with my theory is that he would have accomplished his goal in a simpler way by voting for who he wanted out and counting the votes to see who Baylor had voted for. Someone upthread mentioned that this came up in one of Jeff's interviews, but hid it under spoilers, so I didn't look but I'm interested if it's not too spoilery. 2) Why did Baylor vote for N? How is it better for her than voting with the women for Dale? 3) This thing that Dale found, is it the idol and can he use it as such in a bind, the idea being that the parchment stating what it's good for is hidden elsewhere? a decoy (that he could use in a bind to make people think he has the idol)? something else? I'm glad "loved ones" are separated in different teams on Survivor, because some of the intros (for instance father-daughter who didn't talk for 3 years) were too reminiscent of some of the teams I've enjoyed the least on The Amazing Race.