NutMeg

Avaleigh, I wrote a long post then hit a wrong key and it got lost. Basically, I agree with all you post, but with the Tommy reveal - althought I like and while he's the embodiment of karma here, it doesn't make sense that he's to act on Mima's hearsay (Mima that he didn't even recognize when she came to give him Jimmy's army plaques and who we've seen talking to him about his dad, often, but never about Nucky).

Thanks for this, that's why I love this forum! I'll look for it when I rewatch. Can't believe it's ended :-( OT but I swear I'm not dyslexic but whenever I saw the title of this thread before the episode aired I saw it as "Childless friend". Dont' know why... Maybe I was seeing Nucky by default??

We should have threads for all characters so that we can discuss then ad nauseam - starting with Nucky and Eli :-) Of course I'm assuming there'll be a lot of us mourning the show and wanting to extend the pleasure of discussion, but if there are no takers, I'll be ok haunting this last episode thread :-)

After this last episode, when thinking of rewatching, that's the scene I look forward to the most! I think the last scene makes no sense. Or if it does it is as some kind of vague karma. As far as I remember, last time we saw Tommy and Gillian together was when she was giving him Jimmy's army plaques, and he had no idea who she was, so this idea that 1) she talked to him about Nucky so much (which we never once saw) and 2) that he remembered it enough to seek the guy out and ultimately kill him - makes absolutely no sense. I see it as a total retcon and the major flaw in the finale.

On Nucky's tomb, the epitaph shoud be "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". Nucky is also a very tragic character - as is his brother and the whole Darmody family. I find Mabel's words, as quoted by Gilian, very relevant - "he wants to do good but he doesn't know how". If Nucky wanted to get ahead, I don't think initially it was for himself, but for his family - sister he could have saved, or he imagined as a kid he could have, if he had more powers (including money but not only), mother to save from brutish father, brother, as attested by another insightful quote: Eli: "Why are you always the smart one", Nucky: "because you need me to be" [quoting from memory, so might be a bit off]. Then later there's Mabel to add to the list of people he wants to get ahead for, plus the future family they plan to have. And that's when the need to get ahead become so strong that it overpowers everything else, even the reason why he wanted to get ahead in the first place. From what we saw in this final episode, I guess that Mabel's depression (talked about in previous season, 1 and/or 2 maybe) was not only caused by losing her baby but by her growing disappointment in seeing the man she had loved become more and more distant from who she fell in love with. Very soon after the flashbacks, she may have stopped thinking he wanted to do good. Anyway, while I could see Nucky's death coming from a few episodes now, I'm not very happy with the Darmody ex machina at the last minute. But kudos to those who called it. The scenes with Capone were very powerful. Scene with son, I was misty eyed. Scene in the car, excellent, Capone as a celebrity getting ready for the papparazzi, but very tense and scared, then Capone the star in the limelight, playing "Capone", followed by Capone acknowledging it's not going to be smooth sailing, but still that exchange of what - salutations? acknowledgements of each other? - was awesomely done. Many, many other things to say, some in regards to the big picture (I'm still not sure what I feel about this ending - fitting but somehow lacklustre?), some concerning small details (was Kennedy hitting on Margaret there and impressed when she blew him off?), some about the whole season (if/when I watch again, I'm going to take a greater sadistic pleasure watching the Commodore be slapped by Gillian/poisoned by his maid and despised by all). So will probably be back after I process it a bit.

Sorry to see them go after they had proven quite competent at tasks, but I guess that's the law of TAR, you miss one, you're out. The U-Turn didn't even factor in this case.

I agree in theory but I think in practical terms no team wants to be the one who made an enemy of another team who's bound to survive the U-Turn thanks to the save. It's different when there's a vote, because it means a majority of people agreed with you, so you're not the sole target of sourgrapes afterwards (again, in theory). (Edited for spelling - again, not against)

Aww, Kimberstormer, thanks for ther shoutout, but while I brought the theory, you made it a masterpiece with the haunting tale :-)

Wasn't that one one the reasons Drew wanted her out?

just watched the episode, and did not like my lovely Tassioni being made to look like a fool - she is supposed to work the courtroom masterfully, always, and I don't like this development. I was so rooting for her against team Alicia just because. [some posters above made very interesting points about how her mind works, and all, and I would be fine with it if her behaviour in court hadn't been so much lesser that we have come to expect from her] Same with Diane - she's smart, she's savvy, she wouldn't click on that suspicious thing - how more suspicious could it have looked!? So basically, with Tassioni and Diane being reduced to half-blumbering idiots, I'm left rooting against the main character and mourning the demise of the great many female characters we've had here in the past - Kalinda was excellent in her scenes with the Russian hacker, but we know she's out soon, and with Alicia quite unsufferable who's left to like? Peter, I guess... Oh vey :-( I don't think, as a rule, that the main character should have a say in the scenario. Off topic, I think SJP's growing input in Sex and the City did a disservice to the franchise, for instance. I fear we are seeing a similar situation here. Hope I'm wrong, but not holding my breath.

I've lived in Morocco for a few years and know that smell, it carries for miles. As Phil mentioned the tanning has been done the same way since medieval times, I went seaching for what that means and found this (source for more: http://www.leathernet.com/tanning.htm) : Bolding is mine, in the interest of somehow bringing the idea of the smell through the screen. Otherwise, I really don't like the way the U or W-turn is always at the end of the race. If the leg takes place in one city, why not have it earlier, so there is still some way to recover from it?

Reading the thread way for BE to kill of Narcisse reminds me of a question I had last week, in the vein or did this really happen back then: Daughter's daughter was carrying a doll which was very dark-skinned - darker than Chalky - and I'm wondering when the first dolls with darker skins were first created. If they didn't exist back then, was it a way to tell her that the little girl was carrying a part of Chalky's with her (seeing as he was the darkest skinned of them all)?

I'm on the fence on this ricegate thing. On the one hand, I don't want contestants to starve, but on the other hand I would hate for the tribe that ate like they were sure food would fall from the sky/be handed by TPTB to have an advantage over the tribe who knew to conserve their resources. I would have been happy for a choice to trade rice for immunity on the spot, and for blue to go to TC without talking the choices out but I fear I might not like what TBTB will concoct for them next - unless it involves loss of immnunity, but still we'll miss an immunity challenge then. Let's wait and see.

and therefore showing to the whole viewing universe that she's as big or bigger of a bully as she thinks Dale is... too bad I actually liked her until this episode and I don't anymore.

And you summarized exactly why I prefer the Dale/Kelley dynamics, and really don't like Baylor/Mom - there's enough manipulation in this game, I don't want to see it between "loved ones", but unfortunately that's exactly what Baylor is doing, and what Missy is enabling, and what I hate about both of these contestants - the moments they are voted out cannot come soon enough for me. Forgot to say that some people look very good covered in mud and looking like living statues - Wes impressed, Alec maybe, and maybe more of them.

I don't find it surpicious but would have preferred if they all had to pick from the same bag. Potential of no/limited changes is more interesting to me than potential for half goes here, half goes there.

And now I'm coming here to eat my hat because if she feels so responsible for her daughter's wellbeing [you want more rice? of course, honey, here you go - still not enough, wait, I'll pour it all for you] [poor thingy, that old man was nasty to you, don't worry baby, we'll be nasty to his daughter, thatr'll teach him], she should not be on Survivor and if she has no qualms voting someone else's baby, I hope her's sees her torchlight snuffed sooner that later - followed by her mom's, because of course she cannot survive on losers' logde without her. Plus I didn't like Baylor's comment about her mother's likely 4th marriage looming. No respect from the daughter, no game play from the mom, I now really dislike that pair.

I got it too, but now we know why it was kept from us :-(

Tribe switch: I didn't like that there was a bag of buffs per (former) tribe. I like the randomness of having some tribes remain almost the same (gave us some good moments and weird strategies in the past). In the future, please make them all pick from ONE bag. Baylor's mom is silly - I get wanting to feed your child, but when your child had done well enough without you, ease up on the mom thing, you know. I was previously sorry for Missy when I though Baylor played her like a fiddle, but now I don't like either of them. And I hate the overuse of the "bully" word, especially as in this case Baylor was probably more of an offender as Dale was (in the Baylor/Dale context). Jon and Jaclyn, oh vei... For once, being a swing vote wasn't a bad position to be in, but I am still scratching my head as to why they went with the "[daughter] cannot be trusted, and [mother] is the same" instead of the more "stable" pair. And why noone thought to approach Keith [if I'm remembering correctly, HE was the one to approach Missy/Baylor] is beyond me. i was very much hoping Jeff would have traded rice bag for immunity there and then. Alas, it's a TBC story. So while I'm not rooting for anyone yet, I'm rooting against the mom and daughter combo and after the vote also not too crazy about Jon and Jacklyn - plus, frankly, they could have toned down the PDA, have they never watched Survivor!? I give them a half-pass for now, because they're were 3 pairs after all, but I would be very surprised if they both make it far. Next week, if orange tribe loses IC, wouldn't it be great to break them up ? Historically, swing vote never works well...

[above, I meant "life", not "like" but the post is too old so I guess I can't edit it]

I'd love it if, instead of not understanding the game, he was playing his own shrewd version of hapless contestant in over his head. Not holding my breath, but one can dream...

Does anyone know more about her relationship with her father? If I remember correctly, from the first episode, she couldn't wait to leave the farm and at some stage she didn't talk with her father for 3 years. Can't say I necessarily blame her, but if anyone with more intel could chip in, that would be useful to understand more of this contestant - who's still very much a cipher to me: mastermind who knows when to shut up, play it cool, and let others do the legwork? puzzled contestants, à la Katie (Tina's daughter) from the previous BvW? (very nice person, as I see her, but not Survivor material) I've seen both options discussed with valid arguments, and plussed them all because the arguments made sense, but I still need to see more to make up my mind :-)

Who was the genius who said in a confessional 'We are literally starving to death here" after the sausages which were part of the reward were shown?

Word to all this, you expressed exactly what I was feeling but couldn't say so clearly! thank you.

KimberStormer, I think you'll find that the dislike is pretty much equal opportunity in this forum - so far this season, amongst the men we have seen John, Drew, Josh, Jeremy, Alec, maybe also Keith and Drew, in small doses, and Jon based on previews, and within the women group the Twins, Baylor and mayyybe (some disparaging comments about physical appearance of) Julie, so unless I've missed a few people, the women are actually viewed in a more favorable light as a group. I'm new here too, refugee from TWoP, but so far I like this website a lot! As to the dislike for Baylor (I think "hate" is too strong here), some of us answered in the previous episode (I think) thread.