NutMeg

Thanks, Gillian :-) I knew i could find good anwers here!

Or an anonymous chorus - his minions, the staff of his cathouse.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with pseudo psychological reveals on Survivor, like the one we had from Alec. But it started me thinking that maybe this season casting deliberately choose some pairs that might not have such a close bond. I'm thinking Alec/Drew and their baggage, Kelley and her dad who didn't talk for a few years, Misty/Baylor where there seemed to be an undercurrent of animosity based on the sumo challenge. There may be more that we don't know about yet. If that is the case, the dynamic might not be necessarily what we'd expect in a "loved ones" season this time. Otherwise, back to clothing choices, someone above (sorry, cannot find the quote now) mentioned Natalie being savvy enough to secure appropriate wear. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but I noticed in the past that returning players usually have better gear than newbies, starting from Stephenie back in Guatemala. Maybe production don't think we'll buy that they would made bad choices twice and think we are still in the dark as to who actually makes the choices. They might not be completely wrong there, as every season some people comment on the idiots coming on Survivor with [insert your choice here] :-)

Good on her for not getting all bitter, must be tough when your whole tribe cheers your guy's ouster. Monica at least had people consoling her after hubby was voted out, but if I remember correctly she still reacted more aggressively. Sweet of Keith to ask her if she was ok.

Drew is a ladies' man man alright - they unanimously voted for him. I'm starting to think there's a curse on Exile Island - that's now 3 in a row that are out after being there. I loved how scared Keith was when the HII jumped at him. And how in contrast he was relatively nonplussed with the big bug on his shoulder. Interesting how some people are just itching to experience tribal council - even if it's the only one they'll see.

This seemed promising, so I've watched the first episode and despite Viola Davis I felt underwhelmed. Is this 1) a must watch, 2) a nice thing to watch if you have the flu and cannot do much else, 3) show to binge watch, so wait a bit, 4) don't bother, there's better elsewhere. Seriously, what do you think/recommend? Despite the joking tone, my question is dead serious :-) Without input I'm going for 4), but if it improves down the line I'd be happy to reconsider :-)

You guys, this might well be build as a drama, for me it is one of the best comedy shows this year, not that I watch (or keep watching) many of them, but still, I'll be back for more (intentional or not) comedy when the show comes back.

You all are fantastic! Please continue to bring it on!

Thank you so much MulletorHater, I'm happy to see others share that opinion :-) Your post is incredibly insightful and worth the read, thanks a bunch for it.

Chekov's gun and all, in this series those I expected to die (such as Doyle) lived and prospered, and those I thought were there for at least a little while longer were gone much faster. Who knows, maybe for once Chekov's gun doesn't apply. Mickey is the least tormented soul on BE, isn't he? Actually, he doesn't have one tormented bone in his body. I hated him initially but I now I love him for that. - of course, with my record, he'll probably be dead at the beginning of next week episode, and that howl you'll hear will be mine :-) Edited because "I hating him" is not good.

Fun idea, RealityGal. Well, seeing as Narcisse is now in a position regarding Luciano similar to that he put Chalky in regarding him, I'd say let Luciano introduce him to a Daughter bis/ Daughter's mother bis. Narcisse is smitten right away, but doesn't know that the lady either 1) hates his because he killed her mother/ father/ sister/ puppy/ all the above, or 2) is paid handsomely by Luciano to render him incoherent - i.e. mess with his brain or his capacity to talk and influence people, 3) is a hired killer pretending to do Luciano's bidding but actually hired by Nucky to render him incoherent - i.e. mess with his brain or his capacity to talk and influence people. Of course, she could be harmless, but with only 2 episodes to go, I won't go there. Actually, much as I'd like to see him gone, his becoming incapacitated and not able to cause harm would work even better for me. He's arrested and sent to break rocks where Chalky was, but this time the security has been reinforced and seeing as he's now a bit soft in the head and/or mute there's not much he can do. Or we next see him comatose in an asylum, with Daughter's song playing in the background (hallucination? memory? radio success? who knows...), and he cries but we don't know why and analyse it here ad infinitum. No, scrap that, if there is one character I want out of my TV and my mind ASAP, it's his :-)

I don't think any death will shock and sadden me as much as Jimmy's - he was such a powerful character, such a major one, still had a high potential for redemption and a lot to live for, people who loved him, etc. Chalky, like Richard before him, had done what he could for those he loved and had lost the will to continue living. It is so sad for Chalky that Daughter ever happened. Not only is it sad that a guy turns his back on a nice family for a nice piece of voice, but he did that for a nice piece of voice who was introduced by someone he never trusted, and I was always disappointed that as a savvy guy he never considered that she could be a Trojan horse - or rather that he refused to consider that possibility. My frustration is so high because we never saw anything worthy in Daughter (or I should say I never did), so his infatuation with her remains a cipher. I know we saw that his family was "unappreciative", or rather that he felt unappreciated, but that brings to mind parents who say "I would never have talked like that to my dad" but would hate to have with their kids the distant relation they had with their dad. I thought it was clear that his family loved him, warts and all, even if sometimes they were hinting that, you know, warts can be removed. His death however was logical. He had lost his family, through dead or estrangement brought about by his mistakes. Seven (?) years in a penal environment must then have taken their toll. He seemed to not even consider escaping, but did thanks to external factors. But his family was gone, his "great love"/infatuation was gone, only thing left was revenge for all these losses. And then, just as he's about to get revenge, he finds that his 'great love"/infatuation lives on, in the form of Daughter and daughter. Alive, he's a threat to them. Dead, he might (not will) be useful to them, which is better than a threat. So he sacrifices himself. And does get the hero treatment (no visual of bullet impact for him, just a close up, slow fall in, a song in his head, they the song interrupted and the scratch of the needle. As deaths go, he may have had the most tender one so far. And now, back to Narcisse. The reason I hate him so is his hypocrisy, do what I say, not what I do, unless I order you to. When talking about Luciano he told Chalky something like 'he allows me to run my own business, but under him", or something similar, I was struck by how that is exactly what he did to Chalky in the previous season. I hope the irony wasn't lost on Chalky (who used to be wise before Daughter, etc.). Van Alden on the other hand died as he had lived since we've known him. So while I'm sadder to see his character go, because, contrary to Chalky, he was still a big part of the narrative, it makes sense that he ended as he did. And he got to go in a blaze of glory, under his own name and while trying to kill/get Al Capone. Pretty good send-off for the character, I think. Methinks Nucky will not survive the season, but I would be shocked if he bit the dust next episode. All flashbacks have to mean that we're going to feel sad when he does, and are him taking stock of his life, aren't they? But if he's going all out against his enemies next episode I'll be rooting for him and his crew. Hopefully Eli's disfavor with Al Capone will send him back to AC, I need to see the brothers together this season! (otherwise than in flashback...) Please let Mickey Doyle live...

Well, that was a hell of a roller coaster ride, with a few brief moments of levity here and there only to better shock, awe and sadden us afterwards. And it was mesmerizing. Nothing could have dragged me away from the screen. I've been increasingly impressed by Shea Wigham's performance as Eli since Eli got out of prison and in this episode he managed to bring even more dimension to his game. Very sad to lose two complex characters, with only two episodes left this is starting to feel like the end of an era. Van Alden/"Husband" and Chalky will be missed, and I have no doubt that very soon the list will get longer. I hope the writers will at least give us the satisfaction of including among the next departed some that we will not miss, starting with Dr. Narcisse. Interesting that Joel is widely believe to be Tommy, I would never have thought about it without reading it here, but that's an intriguing idea. I would have seen him more as the ghost of young Nucky, wanting to get ahead, refusing money, seeming all wide-eyed good boy, a living example of what Nucky once was. The ending credits score... heartwrenching .

Should be start a "how to improve TAR"/"how to save TAR" topic? I would have a few ideas in terms of casting and scheduling :-)

Thank you so much hincandenza and Avaleigh for these very insightful character analysis. It's not often that we have such a show as Boardwalk Empire that offers so many flawed and complex fictional characters, and I feel so lucky that the analysis can continue here. Gillian is one of the most fascinating to me, and I'm glad to have found like-minded people here.

Thanks Turtle. And no, no relation :-) For me, it's a side effect of not liking the mother-daughter dynamic in the BvW format. I think it automatically penalizes the mom and doesn't cast a very positive light on the daughter. Last week challenge was a good example of that. Same dynamic with Laura/Ciera last time we had this format.

Once again we see that tribes often have no idea of the dynamics in place in the other tribe. Jeremy probably never considered that the real power so far in Orange is Josh, or that it could be Dale, or Baylor, or the other invisible girl. I think seeing himself as in charge of his tribe (which still remains to be proven), he just assume that on the other tribe it must also be a big, buff guy who's in charge. I reminds me of the time when JT was so sure Russell was dead man walking in his tribe because all the big, buff dudes had been voted off. JT was so afraid of Parvati and her potential coven that he never for a minute assume that Russell might have a completely different view. Maybe Natalie will find an idol and secretly pass it to Josh with a sweet note, so that he can save himself once all the girls have been voted off... :-)

Just a pet peeve of mine, but isn't CBS cheap for not having taken inflation into account for all these years? There was a website mentioned to on TWOP that I didn't save, but really with all the money they're making (show still being around is proof enough), why has the ultimate reward stayed the same for so long? Round number is all fine and dandy, but more dollars would be even better, no?.

The curse of the Kelly - Kelley works too - lives on. If that's your name, don't go on Survivor, you'll become invisible...... (owwwww - Halloweenish sound), even if you have cute dimples that we can remember you by, you will still be invisible. I think the curse started after season 1, but am not sure.

Late to the party, but watched later and read all your interesting comments before posting. Let me preface by stating that I had never heard of John Rocker before this season started, and do not watch baseball, or football, or whatever sport he used to play. I do watch other sports but do not follow what happens to the players (apart from injuries that may affect their game). I'm not even sure which tennis player is gay or not, for instance, and couldn't care less, I'm only interested in their serve, their backstrokes, their physical stamina, their mental stamina when in a disadvantageous position, etc. So I started watching Survivor as I would any other strategic game, and with a blank state (except that I had seen the Twinnies on TAR and was rooting from them there). Based on what I saw on my screen, I was disappointed at how Jeremy reacting at Val's ouster by sharing trash about John (oh Jeremy, if only you'd know how bad Val was at this game and how she was influential in her own elimination, by lying to John on a strategic aspect of the game when he was really trying to help her - in my world, in someone has two idols and I tell them to be sure to play one, I'm helping - I might even vote for that person to make sure it happens; as I see it, if it turns out there were no idols after all, well bummer for you, I did all I could with the parameters you gave me). But ever more awful was that, based on hearsay, Natalie took it upon herself to spew degrading comments at John and instruct the other team to vote him off. [once again, not knowing anything about the guy and not having researched his background or that of other contestants, the comments felt degrading to me as based on hearsay - these went beyond usual trash talk that I'm also not too fond of but I can understand somehow, as it's usually more glib). Now, if I were yellow team, I would be suspicious as to why team blue was so intent on me voting out X, and trying to influence me with descriptions of what X is supposed to be. If I already knew this about X and was fine with him in my team, then why change now? If I didn't, then why vote out someone that the other team seems to want out so badly that they're willing to "instruct" me to vote for that person that I so far had no problem with? All the more reasons to keep X: either they fear him, or they dislike him so much that they'll vote him out at the first opportunity. In the latter case, good for me at the merge (provided I'm not on the chopping block today or soon), in the former he is such an asset that I actually might make the merge if we keep him. So whether as an asset, which he was (cf. the team using him as a human ladder, per his suggestion, or him shooting hoops much better than Baylor this episode), or as a goat/umbrella, he was worst keeping around. (In addition, he seemed to be handy with fishing gear, which, based on comments for last week episode, is very rare) I feel the trigger was Josh and he puzzles me - the guy tells you he has the/an immunity idol and that's reason not to trust him!? and engineer his vote-off!? Of course he was not going to use it on you, not now, not at this stage of the game, but if you were as good a player as you wish you were, you'd have seized an opportunity there (see exhibit 1: Parvati vs. Amanda; exhibit 2: Parvati vs. Russell - you get the drift, Parvati you are not, my friend, though you're starting to have as much confessionals as Russell). The other nitwit I'm annoyed with is Baylor - Josh lies to you repeatedly, and still your only game is to play with him? Yeah, yeah, I get it, you're trying other things, but they always come to nought. I could say you're the Sierra of this season, but even that would be a compliment that you haven't earned yet. ETA: manicure that stays put = gelish manicure.

Thank you all who explained the Kalinda/Alicia/JM behind the scene. While it puts some light on the issue, I still have a problem with this My problem is NOT with the poster but with the writers. Why have Kalinda sleep (or having slept) with Peter at all? At one stage, it looked like it could bring more understanding of the Kalinda character. ("Kalinda is not to blame", etc.). This, we never got. Since then, JM has become more and more random in her actions (no more sounding board/confidante), therefore unlikeable, and we had to bear with Kalinda being paired with a psycho investigator, then a psycho husband, basically a huuuuuge set-back of her character and story lines. So who's the genius who thought of Kalinda/Peter sleeping together and managed in a stroke to destroy the best part of the show with a SL that has been completely forgotten, except by faithful viewers who know what they have lost? (Did the Panjabi maybe get an award before Margulies or some silly behind the scene stuff like that? I don't really keep track, so just genuinely asking) I wish I could go back in time and change the scenario so that Peter would have slept with Kalinda's husband, that would have raised my enjoyment of the rest of the series :-)

I sooo liked Margaret in that scene. If there was a reason why she was kept despite being so lackluster recently, that was it! And the 25 cents to the dollar was a great idea indeed! Seems we'll get to see the infamous Nucky purveying Gillian to the Commodore. Only way it would add something is if there is more to the story than we've been told so far, but I'm at a loss as to what that could be.

I think in Survivor there is a point for a women contestants to work with other women in that all things being equal, a male contestant would usually get more votes at FTC, and that's where Parvati's plan was genius. That being said, I don't think it always makes sense for each woman. In the case of Baylor, though, I don't see what she gained by allying with Josh against the women - after all, she lost other potential allies, had votes for her in the two TC she went to (I know, I know, at the first one it was from her ally, I still don't get the logic and I'm not sure she does either), and doesn't seem particularly close /allied with the other guys, so what was the point? Thinking ahead, if Josh were voted out, what would be her plan B?

Seconding those who mentioned Mad Men and Prison Break, and would like to add House of Cards, The Borgias (discontinued, so you can easily binge watch the two awesome seasons) and, if you're in the mood for something silly but pretty, Reign.

While I'll stay for the ride, I'm starting to have more and more issues with some of the tings that attracted me or kept me watching seemingly disappearing, such as the Alicia/Kalinda friendship (why, oh why did the Kings go and ruin of the most powerful part of the show?). I love, love, love Diane, and would have loved seeing her in the new firm, but why immediately change that by creating troubles with Cary and hinting at Alicia running? I admit "hinting at" is too weak here, I should have said "warning us that whether she/we like us, she is running, damn it". And I don't like it. Once again, in my ideal scenario, I wanted to see Cary and Alicia grow into the next Will and Diane, I wanted to see them draw Kalinda in and Diane too, because she's awesome in court and out, and has the best wardrobe and love life of them all. Seriously, if I ever grow up, I want to be Diane! (and failing that, Kalinda of yore). I fear like Alicia running is going to happen, and I'm not happy with it. As stated above, I'll probably stay for the ride, but more out of a sense of "well, I'm bored today, and not much work to do, is there anything I could watch? Well, the Good Wife at least has Diane, better that than CSI... I mean, this is a show that I used to be addicted to and that I now watch when I have nothing else to do, and might even stop watching if better offerings came along but I'm not holding my breath. Maybe I'll get a life instead. Edited for spelling.