HalcyonDays

Alright, let's move on everyone. The word of the day isn't Hijack, and this thread isn't here to define that word or any word, for that matter. Let's get back to excellent dicussions here, without turning into a dictionary or thesaurus. Most appreciated.

Not sure my quick comment made my thoughts clear. This is NOT about shipping, as many dissenters seem to think. By saying that one prefers to see the Ichabbie relationship, I meant that how these two strangers met in strange circumstances, have been thrown together to save the world, how each one's own life has been impacted, how their own experiences could teach the other, and all of its inherent conflicts and successes. THAT to me is interesting. It does NOT mean romantic. Romance has nothing to do with it. The fact is, the two main actors have amazing chemistry. So it's not surprising that some viewers want to see some more development in that chem (NOT romantic - just an awesome connection). It is these two people in a unique situation, thrown together for a stressful, intense and ultimately devastating scenario for humanity, and how they deal with this situation, and how they support each other in their deadly task. All other characters around them are secondary. The story was supposed to be "Two Witnesses - blessed by "god", have been tasked with saving the world from the coming Apocalypse." That alone meant that the two mains would have to deal with Demons, and Evil and the like, while having to balance and juggle their own relationships in the meantime. Think of the many cop shows and movies where the main cop character has to deal with these insane and disturbing cases, yet has a wife/husband at home who they have conflict with, because wife/husband doesn't understand why they are messed up about their work. Before people say that this is happening with SH right now, the personal conflict NEVER took over the entire movie/show. It was merely a hinderance to the main character. The same applies to SH. Abbie and Ichabod should have been the mains, and Jenny, Irving, Katrina and the like should have been there to provide personal growth, some drama, a emotional bond, but also a temporary diversion to their tasks at hand, providing the drama for the show. That is not the show now. ANYWAY, back to the positivity!! Woohoo, I do love my Ichabod Crane, and his curmudgeonly, crusty, cranky comments. I mean, they are brillant, but make us look at things in new ways. I mean, that scene where Crane is commenting over the two guys in the restaurant, and Abbie automatically thinks it's because they are gay, but no. It's because one of them wears a hat - disrespectful. But it's a brilliant exercise on how we immediately become biased towards certain things, or at least are reminded of that. Brilliant!!!!!

Damn..... How. About. Them. Cowboys. Yeah, yeah, I get that the Lions took stupid penalties in the second half, and the 'Boys offensive line was lousy (against the #1 defense in the league) and Romo not letting go of the ball fast enough (I know, no interceptions wanted) But still.... howboutthemcowboys.....

This is true... This could be true....for this reason: Abbie in Purgatory could have been an exploration of why she is a Witness, what in her life led her to her path, and why she was chosen. It would have been a lot of flashbacks, the Mama episode, her fight against the horrors of Purgatory, etc... This could have easily happened...but guess what? Then they would have "sidelined" / minimized Katrina's story. Because if Abbie was in Purgatory, you would have half of the show's time spent on Abbie and her experiences, and half of Ichabod and Jenny and maybe even Irving trying to rescue her. So it could easily be done. And in hindsight, SHOULD have been done. Especially if we included the mirror in Molochs lair, where Abbie could easily contact Ichabod. But that would again, mimimize the witch. And apparently a certain show runner wouldn't dare consider that. (And to not be a total bitch, maybe FOX really did force Goffman's hand, but he and his little minions could still have written better material for ALL of the characeters.)

Oh my god, I was half-expecting a make out session. Really, is Waters half drunk also when he listens to the drunkards narrate? Because otherwise, I cannot believe he would get into that tub while fully sober.

UK version of Drunk History? Do you know how awesome that would be??? So much brilliant history to cover, and so many amazing and OLD pubs to cover that history in. Hell, there are pubs in London that are their own history. Please show this in Canada, show. Pretty please!!

Kelly and Michael welcome the first guests of 2015!

Scheduled guests for the first week of the year - 2015!!

Kimmel's lineup for the first week of 2015:

Interesting point, but did Henry know then that if he died again, he would be resurrected. He had only died once (the ship) and survived, so he may think that if he dies again, that's it, it's permanent. However, that asylum...yeah, death would be better. I would guess he was killed in the asylum, thanks to their "therapy' methods, resurrected again, and that's when he realized he would be around "forever".

Regarding the Poll in this thread: Well, it looks like 72% of people here (over 100 votes) all believe that Katrina/Henry and CFD have contributed to why Sleepy Hollow is struggling this season, both in ratings and in viewer opinion. Pretty definitive, eh? And not surprising, as I would say the same percentage (if not more) of media articles have said the exact same thing. Since we've broken the 100 vote milestone for CFD (my milestone, btw), I am going to close this poll and maybe put up another one for season 2B. Maybe what one thing should happen to FIX Sleepy Hollow? (I can guess that one answer that will vote high already *grin*). Thanks to all for voting and participating in this poll. We're not crazy or negative, guys! Just frustrated about that choice that gathered 72% of the vote. Cheers!

Exactly and this show is a bit of a mixed bag at times. It's also which relationships the viewer feels drawn to. For example, if Abbie and Ichabod's friendship/relationship is ones primary draw, then this season is very difficult. However, if the struggles of the romantic relationship of Katrina and Ichabod appeal to you, then this season is for you. That's the divide.

I marathoned "How to get away with Murder' yesterday. Good show. Really good. I'm in. I realize it's a different genre, but those little twists each episode, and the little bits of information the viewer learns as the story unfolds are great. Sleepy Hollow can still do the big reveal, but they need to drop some hints along the way, to make the viewer go "OMG!" once an episode, as opposed to once a season. I think that is another major component of the show that is sorely missing.

To me, it's not even that they didn't kill her off. Season 1, she brought each scene to a grinding halt, but all they had to do was play on hershadiness. That's it. Have her play Ichabod and Abbie, and play Henry and be a formidable force to deal with. Not all evil is so defined as 100% bad. Have her play the Witnesses, Ichabod struggles with this, show how the lies upon lies have a purpose, have him question things, and finally have him say "that's it, I'm done and be a true Witness." Instead we get her knocked up pregnant with demons, weak with magic, fainting, corsetting, whispering, crying, etc. The writers messed up big time with her, tbh. There was a really good opportunity. Now I totally resent her appearance on screen, when I could have been all intrigued as to her motivations, and yelling at the TV for Ichabbie to turn the tables and figure it out, all while she's twirling her "evil" mustache.

Ha. I wish I could remember specifics. It was when the Deliverance debacle happened, and all of a sudden we got that rush of articles of "What went wrong with SH", like that Huffington Post and LA Times and all of the other stuff. One of the writers of one of those main articles (sorry, I don't remember who) mentioned in a podcast that he was contacted by some FOX exec, who said they were absolutely shocked over the sudden backlash. This writer in the podcast is saying he was so surprised himself to receive this call out of the blue, and surprised that FOX themselves were completely clueless over the backlash. I remember it specifically because I was like, seriously FOX, just read facebook and twitter and forums and oh I don't know, the actual REVIEWS from these sites to get a clue. I think I even wrote something like I cannot believe they didn't get some student minion to cruise the internet and read this stuff for feedback purposes.

Dual role is Katia playing her ancestor Helena van Tassel during the Salem Witch trials. Basically her with a blonde wig. If it makes you guys feel better, that karaoke scene in episode 14 with have a solo by Crane, solo by Abbie and a duet. How on earth this factors into the episode, where the Cranes go on that date/investigate art thing, I have no clue. Maybe Crane's marriage finally ends and he sings New Order's Blue Monday. (the Orgy version is better). Actually, it might be more appropriate for Abbie. I can only hope.

This whole situation with Sleepy Hollow is so complex, I don't think any one reason is the be all end all reason. I'm going to try to address some of the comments I remember: (also, some of my sentences might be clipped, only cause too much writing, quick spewing out of thoughts) Number 1 - the comment that the show runners show and if you don't like, don't watch. Very incorrect, especially at this point in the series. The point of the show is to make money. The show runners job is to produce content that garners high ratings, and therefore increases advertiser revenue. A subset of that is having the network considered acclaimed, therefore encouraging advertisers to put money in the network. Nothing more, nothing less. It's why reality show is coveted - cheap to make, high ratings, cheap "actors', lots of money. A showrunner can make the show his/her own, but only after many years of success. Goffman is not in the position yet to make the show his own. He can't. The goal is money, syndication, ratings, etc. A show like Castle, for example, has the same amount of angry skewering criticism that we do here, but the show runner has been on the air 6 years, renewed for seven years and now has the coveted syndication, so who cares. Now he has the luxury to present HIS ideas, because why not - his show won't get cancelled and the rating remain high. SH hasn't been successful enough for Goffman to do his thing. Not at all. That is piece #1 of the puzzle. He shouldn't be able to do this, unless FOX is willing to comply in some cases because... Ratings - Advertisers covet the "white man 18-49" demo, because apparently they, and not the reems of Baby Boomers, have piles of money. In the old school corporate executive mindset, these are the ones with money. Therefore, they must appeal to that demo. I really think that FOX wanted to expand and ADD viewers, and tried to grab the young males, hence heaving bosoms and tight corsets and focus on Katrina. The fact that Goffman totally muses on her just reaffirms this - he is that demo and mindest they are looking for. Think about it. The Big Bang Theory is a 30 minute show that gets huge ratings and 4.0 and higher demos. The three main actors get $1 million an episode. The four others get like $250K or more an episode. All are getting back end deals and syndication payouts. There are 24 episodes a season. Before we even factor in production costs and other salaries, the six main actors will get at a minimum $96 million this season. Ad and other TBBT revenue streams has to be enough to cover this, production costs, other salaries, misc costs and still make a healthy profit for the network. My point - no network would rightfully trust a young show and unproven show runner to remake a show in his own vision at this point in the series, if the bottom line was hit. By aiming for that coveted demo, FOX failed to anticipate the backlash, as did the writers, and the resulting poor season. When you have a SH producer calling a media writer/analyst and asking THEM why SH is not doing well, the SH boardroom is obviously isolated and clueless and tone deaf. Most networks won't risk this that early on, unless they decide to give up on the show and not bother with it anymore, which lack of promo indicated they may have. Most, because there are many poor decisions made by isolated glass wall corner office executives. Mishandled Drama - Making John Noble the son, and having the Crane's whine about redemption rings false for two reasons. One - age. Sorry, but Noble looks old so people have a hard time with seeing a father/son connection. Two, Crane doesn't know his son. It's theory only, so rings false to the viewer this so-called connection. Crane is (was) more ethical than this. The show Forever did it better, with Henry (the main character) being younger than his son, BUT they showed many scenes that showed the father and son bond. SH tells, not shows. They need to show, not tell. You see this with Katrina too - she's a powerful witch, but never shows it. The resulting CFD ends up trite, boring and doesn't engage the viewer. Forgoing Shady!Katrina, making her weak - They had this great opportunity to show her being shady, making the viewer second guess her actions. Instead, they made her a damsel in distress. Maybe the male white 18-49 demo wants that (doubt it, lots don't), but the show thinks they do, therefore here she is. The massive use of pathetic female TV tropes, when your audience has lots of females, is sad and offputting. Not understanding the Ichabbie appeal - The writers have been quoted as saying they totally didn't see it coming, which makes me go, ' say what??'. The relationship - platonic or otherwise - grounds the show. By putting wedges in it for no reason other than drama, this hurt the overall feel and dynamic of the show. These are a few pieces of the unique and complex puzzle of Sleepy Hollow and why it's the way it is. I've said it before. Sleepy Hollow is a clinic or study in what a show runner, writers and network should NOT do with a well-received, ground-breaking show.

Poor DeLurker - why are you on here and not SLEEPING! Get some rest and drug your self up! I will have to put this in spoiler tags.

This is a HUGE spoiler for what's going to happen with the last episode from a line in a casting call. At least to me it is, because it sort of/possibly confirms a theory I (and others) have had. It's only one line, and no detail, but you can possibly extrapolate.

bmjax, sorry to hear that we're driving you up the wall with our posts! ha! Unfortunately, there are a lot of us here that are very disappointed and upset over how the show has unfolded this season and need a place to vent our frustrations. Based on forums discussions, online media and professional media articles, there is quite a large number of people who are similarily disappointed. What is most interesting is that the reasons why consistently repeat everywhere. However, there are viewers that do love this season! So I encourage you to bring your rays of positivity to these threads! Shine on, bmjax!

Well, to be fair, this episode was already in the bag before the whole backlash to the show. This one and the next one I believe. They were filming number 15 before Christmas break. But number 14 - I just feel cringy thinking about it. Ugh. It's funny, the more Katrina they give us, to try to make us like her, the more I dislike and loathe her. Good job, show.

Damn. Read the Extended Synopsis today. Am very very disappointed. Seriously, I have to watch these two "solve crimes", while spouting their undying love to each other, and he ignoring her lies upon lies upon lies, and watching as Ichabod says stupid things over and over again, because his brain cells die in her presence and he doesn't have a modicum of reason and ethics in his thinking when in her presence? Dear god. At least Jenny and Abbie and working together, but why can't I get the three of them together. I love Jenny with Ichabod. As for that spoiler - Duh. When I read the press release, I figured that out. That's good though. Assuming they handle it well (they won't). I am going to be very interested in the ratings of this episode. And now we know why there has been little media on this episode. And yeah, you guys called it...Abbie is being sidelined for the most boring dull pointless character ever. Apparently that sick feeling in my stomach isn't just my New Years hangover....