HalcyonDays

My dog hated it - wouldn't touch it. Vegetables, you see. And picky. However there are a few other premium brands that were 99% beef or chicken, the rest water. No fillers at all. In the zombie apocalyspe, canned/tinned meat and veg will be your friend though. Let's all sing *SPAM SPAM SPAM WONDERFUL SPAM* And hope not to get Botulism!

This I agree with totally. Its very evident. That playfulness and fun and being able to play off each other so well is almost gone this season. I think its partially how they've dumbed Ichabod down and have no mindset other that on his wife. Also, there was many who thought that once Katrina was released from Purgatory, her presence would drag down the show, destroy the dynamic between the leads. Well, those people were right. I appreciate your insight!! I figured you would know more of the innerworkings of how things work generally, then the rest of us schmucks who really know nothing but are just speculating for fun!! Thank you!! ETA: It's easy for us to speculate on everything and say "fire Goffman" or get rid of Katrina, but as with anything in this world, it's all politics and who you know in the industry. We really don't know what the producers and presidents etc of FOX really understand what went "wrong" or how they think it should be "fixed". At the FOX TCA party thingy, apparently only Orlando Jones and Katia Winter were there, as the two SH people. Goffman wasn't as far as I know, so intrepret that what you will. For all we know, they will retool the show and showcase Winter, thinking she's the draw. Who knows. For bold and italic tags, you just need the letter only between the square brackets. You don't need to spell out the whole word in this case! Fixed em for ya!

God no. Not at all. You mentioned it's very common in TV/Movie land. Like I said - more power to them, if it gets them what they want. If its equal opportunity, perfect. Problem is society thinks a successful woman is successful by sleeping with the big boss, whilst a man is successful solely on merit. Anyway, moving on.... Excellent - you got the quote tags working! Now go answer my questions above!! We're dying for your opinion. You mentioned Mison's acting being intentional when with Winter? How so? Go answer those other questions too....

Beth just seems to bring out the drama, doesn't she?? Some love Beth, some hate her, some are neutral, some are ambivalent...Everyone has their own opinions and views on this character and actress and her importance of the show. Try to respect others' opinions and not merely dismiss them, even if you vehemently don't agree. Things are getting a bit testy in here so let's play nice.

Yeah, but no one is going to claim that Mison slept his way to the role of Ichabod Crane - ever. There will be complaints that Beharie did, but not the men. It's not that it doesn't happen - duh, of course it does. I'm one of the most cynical of the bunch - I believe the worst of people, and they never fail to disappoint me. Ever. Welcome to reality. Whatever Winter did or didn't do, I don't want anyone here to slut shame her, or any cast member. It's their own personal life. If they want to sleep their way to the top, by all means. It's their decision. More power to them. It's the judgement against the women that's the problem. So no slut shaming, SVP. Thanks. BTW - LinaLamont - if you are doing this from your phone and you can't click the quote button, you can type in the QUOTE tags before and after the paragraph you want to quote. Like this:

I think he was just talking about his two dogs - something cute they did. I don't quite remember what he said. The sound was low. I will say personality makes a huge difference. You can have a beautiful looking guy, but a bad personlity turns them ugly in your mind. I wouldn't kick any of them out of bed, but I do like Hawley's personality. He seems fun, good sense of humour and laid back, and has some brains, so he's good. This may be a stretch, but interesting that when the bartender is hitting on Jenny, Hawley displays similar rude, suspicious, dismissive behaviour that Crane shows to Hawley before (and previously Luke Morales.). Honestly, if it wasn't for the "three way", I would think that scene was really cute. But since I know it's a retcon, it's still cute but makes me side-eye it.

Intentional because the storyline dictates it therefore the acting dictates it? Or intentional by the actor himself - he just does not like Winter, or doesn't like acting opposite her. Don't they also make changes/go new directions so if it succeeds, it strokes their own egos?? That's why some of us have the muse theory - it seems to be his personal pet project to showcase one particular actress. But then again, who knows if FOX also wanted this, initially pushed this. THIS I agree with (because I am a bitter cynical curmudgeon). I may like an actor, but they are paid well, so when they whine...well. We had a little jokey nickname at work for people like me and the other minions in a company ---> Mudflaps. We are the ones who do the dirty work, get all of the shit thrown at them, and none of the accolades. Season 3 (if there is) production will move to Atlanta, so all of those crew members are not longer working in Wilmington, NC, and no one bats an eye. Just like any other company. Blame the mudflaps, do major downsizing then reward yourself with a pat on the back and big bonuses. Yep, about right. So in your experience, do you think that FOX finally stepped in and read Goffman the riot act. Or think he's not the problem. This type of announcement is very unusual (to me), so I wonder if this is all FOX PR to hide the truth, and the decision to cancel is already decided, or if they will bother with actually "changing" it. I've always seen the mass exodus of many of the main show people in season 1 as --> Kurtzman and Orci had that FOX fallout, and other projects to do, as with Molina. Some just want to come in, do their consulting work, and move onto the next project. Some of the writers leaving is either them moving onto better projects, or Goffman surrounding himself with his yes men. (again I think its both). Thanks LinaLamont for your insight from an insider. Very interesting!! I'm going to ask everyone not to speculate on this. We all know Hollywood is notorious for people sleeping their way to the top, but we also know bosses are notorious for manipulating mostly young people to sleep with them to "advance their career". Think old Hollywood and the starlets from that time. The big names in Hollywood would take advantage of the young starlets and promise them a thriving career while preying on their vulnerability. Hey, for all we know, there is a scenario of seduction, but of course it almost always slut shames the women. I guarentee you no one would claim casting couch about Neil Jackson or Matt Barr or say Orlando didn't "casting couch", therefore he was sidelined this season/killed off. So please, let's not apply this label to Winter. Much Thanks!

From articles I remember reading earlier in the year, regarding season 2 - we were supposed to have Abbie in Purgatory for a longer time. We all know this already, and it wouldn't have necessarily been a bad thing. Originally, it was she would be there for like 4-5 episodes. I have a feeling that Goffman extended it to like 12 episodes, therefore FOX stepped in and said - NO!. Others things we were supposed to get --> Ichabod and Abbie on a plane, Ichabod getting his drivers license, delving into Ichabod's relationship with his father (Victor Garber, we miss you), Ichabod's mother, backstory on Jenny, backstory on why Abbie is a Witness, backstory on why Ichabod is a Witness, a possible trip to New York, and a possible trip to London. Out of everything promised, only the drivers license was realized. We still don't know why Abbie/Ichabod are Witnesses - regardless of the Mama episode. All of this was scrapped, to clear the altar and present us Katrina, Henry, CFD and more Katrina and CFD. It really is jarring, knowing the things that were supposed to occur (and I wanted to see), and then whilst the season unfolds, all you view is focus on a character that never grows, never learns, never exhibits great power. All we hear are the same words. Katrina is a powerful Witch/I must redeem him. There was so much promise to this season, and if one DIDN'T know what was supposed to occur, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. I get that. Storylines change, evolve, get dropped. But almost ALL of them? This season, several storylines - potentially big ones - were dropped to showcase a showrunners muse, and on top of that, that story never evolved. It was rescue Katrina, she has powers, no she's weak, she goes back to capture, rescue Katrina, she has powers, no she's weak, she goes back to capture, ad nauseum. All I can say is this --> There is clearly something valid about this thread and all of its contents and criticisms. If this entire thread and its contents were invalid, then ratings wouldn't have significantly declined, no hashtags would have occured, no articles would be published about "What went wrong" and "How to fix", FOX would have announced renewal at the TCA, and there would be no mention of "changes", no mention of "removing serialization". No reasurances would ever need to be deliverered. And this thread wouldn't exist. I have never seen a TV show have such a meteroic rise, then such a rapid fall from grace. I've never seen such a backlash and I've never seen a network step in and announce major changes so openly. It will be interesting to see the results of this.

phoenics and SweetTooth - you both are brilliant!! Truly! If we lived close to each other, we could go hit a pub, get some pints and drown our Sleepy Hollow sorrows! A few weeks back, I learned that little tweeks were being made in the episodes, in response to the Abbie Mills hashtag. The whole Hawley is into Jenny again is one of it, after the backlash with the whole sharing sisters thing. Its nothing to do with bad writing (well, the writing is bad), it's because they had to retcon because they had no choice. It's pretty obvious too, that the scene doesn't quite fit with the rest of the show. And that bartender was gorgeous. *swoon* Topic? There were two things I side-eyed in this episode (besides a certain redhead). One - Ichabod destroying the "Orion" ring of power. Two: Him handing Headless the axe. Does the axe only work for Headless, or for anyone who wields it? And that "ring of power" - this show never explores how certain weapons could be utilized by others. We saw it with the Methelusah sword - only Witnesses could handle it, but what about that Orion Ring? If Abbie stabbed someone with it, would it be able to absorb the power? Same with the axe? Does it only glow, be powerful in the hands of Headless?

I sense a completely dysfunctional environment behind the scenes. From Kurtzman and Orci leaving, to Jose Molina gone, to half of the season 1 writers gone, to the Head costume designer leaving before seasons end, it's like a revolving door. I want some juicy blind items to come out about the show. There is. The drama behind the scenes is fascinating. Maybe that's why they can't write good drama ON the show. They've exhausted their drama quota in there own personal behind the scene dealings.

Hey Everyone...This thread is starting to get off track and moving into discussion on how to fix the show. It's hitting a fine line, only because some of the posts are a combination of discussion on the TCA media announcements, then going into how to resolve things, which really belongs in the Therapy thread. I'm guilty of this also, actually *grin* There is just too much good drama going on!!! I'm going to move some posts into the Therapy thread, to keep the threads on topic. Any other press announcements or media articles on the show, by all means, please post in here. If you don't find your post here - it's been moved to Therapy!! Happy discussion!

Okay, I threw in the NO Crane drama for you to vote on. I do think that Crane will never be drama free - Every character is going to have some drama in their lives/on the show. However drama I want to see --> Crane and his father at odds. Drama with him fighting in the war. Drama in conflict with other soldiers. Drama in dealing with the modern life. I would love to see this. What I don't want to see anymore is Katrina/Henry/Baby/Marriage/Blah drama. That needs to be done. *crossesfingers* Anyone else find is amusing that there is more engaging drama behind the scenes on the show, then on the actual show.

Lately? This show is the epitome of TELL not SHOW. I mean, how many times did we hear "Katrina is a powerful witch...blah blah, Katrina is a valuable spy....blah blah...Katrina is a skilled operative...blah..." Maybe in some cheesy comic spoof...*smile* As for the Hawley switch. The jumping between Mills' sisters was in very bad taste. But did you see that bartender that was flirting with Jenny? YUM-MY. Hawley is cute, but man, show, there is no comparison. Bartender was hot as hell and had two dogs. Perfect man, if you ask me....

Well, since today's been filled with tons of news about Sleepy Hollow and subsequent drama, - NEW POLL!! Because what the heck!

They are filming the final episode now. However, we do know that some changes were made to the final episodes, after the big fallout recently. That's why the final two episodes will be Abbie-focused. Small changes will be made - like Hawley suddenly being back into Jenny. Goffman said that the current focus on biblical Apocalypse hampers the writers in storytelling. That tells ME that they are just not good or creative writers. Exactly it. The sooner they get rid of those writers and show runner who don't fully comprehend or understand this, the better for the show and renewal. Goffman needs to go, along with anyone else who muses over Katrina/KW. John Noble needs to be resolved and written out, I don't care how good of an actor he is. With that done, CFD and the useless Katrina is no longer present. Now the show can focus on the Core Competency again. Now the show can return to its "fun" side.

I read the comment about the cast changes exactly like I hear comments from presidents of companies who tells you the company had a bad year. They say they have to reorganize their business units to maximize profit but will claim no layoffs are coming. Then you walk in one day, and boom - a bunch of people are downsized. They really can't say that anyone will be let go, whether it's writers or actors or whatever in advance. But the fact that EW does a (cough Katrina cough) is telling enough. Then read the comments. Same things are being said there too. The new writers and show runner coming in however, can take the show "in a new direction" and write in the death of Henry and Katrina. Problem solved.

Damn...first, FOX renewed three shows - Gotham, Empire and Brooklyn 99. No mention of Sleepy Hollow yet. ETA; DearEvette got here first! Then this....from the Television Critics Association Winter Press Tour: Answers to questions about SH and renewal. You have to scroll down the twitter hashtag to find the references to SH, but in summary: - No offical renewal for SH yet. - 'changes coming to the show' - Moving away from more serialized drama - FOX waiting to see the 'creative direction' before deciding on renewal - Renewal dependent on those tweaks to the show. Yeah, there is nothing wrong with SH, is there? Not at all. /sarcasm/ The only serialized elements are CFD and Henry/redemption. My happy prediction. Goffman is out, Katrina and Henry gone. Good riddance. What a fall from grace, though for this show.

Four clips from Episode 2.13 - Pittura Infamante.

Can this show FINALLY admit to the fact that Katrina is shady as hell? Please tell me this isn't going to be a mistake by the writers or something overlooked or forgotten by the writers. Because if they brush this and her lies to the side again.... Because the very first clip here...with Katrina and Abigail Adams...Um...I am 100% positive that Katrina told Ichabod (in the Golem episode) that she did not know she was pregnant before he was put in the ground. And that smirk after Adams says 'little monster'. Come on...they have to address this.

Yeah, I just don't know where they should move the show, if that is what they are doing. For me, Gotham then Sleepy was a good Monday Night. If there was a Football game, I would DVR both, watch SH live and then watch NFL. Doing that, I could fast forward through commercials (I have no tolerance for commercials). I don't care about things like the Voice or American Idol or whatever reality show(and don't watch those other shows you mentioned), so the rest of the week becomes a free from TV week, so in my head, lots of space to move it. But yeah, there is lots of competition. You are right. And to think - if Goffman and co. didn't screw up the show in the first place by pandering to his muse, we wouldn't even be discussing this, because SH would have had strong ratings on an already packed Monday night and be comfortably matched with Gotham. It makes me despise Goffman and co even more.

Well, rumour is that if the show gets a season 3, they will pair it with Empire on the schedule. This week, my TV network reran Empire followed by SH. Usually it's Gotham and SH. Monday is a rough day to compete against, so I can see them moving it to Wednesday with Empire. And the fact that the ads contained NO Katrina. God that makes me laugh my butt off. It's like there is this huge black void sitting between FOX and Goffman and co. FOX thinks one way, Goffman and co another. What sucks though is that some of the Empire viewers already know better. Also, the ads are misleading. A new viewer will watch the episode and go 'who is this useless witch?' On the postive note - maybe the season will really surprise us at the end, and there will be something to come back for (assuming the show still exists)

You are absolutely right - the writers have no idea what they are doing. Not surprised. None of the motivations make sense, which is pretty much the whole season. As for Henry being a lawyer, for some reason I thought he just claimed to be a lawyer so he could get access to Frank at Tarrytown. I never thought he actually was a trained and/or practicing lawyer. I thought he just made it up. But the whole premise still doesn't make sense, since he had another life prior to the Sin-Eater episode. But these writers have no concept of continuity. Like what, he's going to mope about not being Moloch's right hand guy anymore. What did he do before? Thinking of other spoilers I have read, I'm thinking now that Katrina has to be part of a Coven to maintain her powers. The other spoiler is that she wants to find other witches and warlocks and start her own little coven. So maybe she finds out she has to be part of one, to maintain her (weak) powers. I'm just guessing. Anything to get her OFF my screen. But from the released synopsis', that isn't going to happen. And after Spellcaster, there are only three more episodes left.

Henry - unsure of his new place in the world/struggles to find identity. You know what is really weird about this - Henry had a life before all of this. He was a sin-eater, and however else he earned money. He was raised from the ground like 13 years ago, and doing his Sin-Eater thing for that long. How long has he been Horseman of War? A few months. This just sounds weird. As for Katrina discovering something about her powers...How about that she never had any decent powers? Oh wait, we already knew that. Actually, the revelation could be actually interesting. Maybe the longer she uses her powers, it starts to physically hurt her? Or there is the possibility that she could lose them? We'll see.

I. LOVE. THIS. SHOW. Again, haven't watched any of the Marvel stuff, but this show really grabs me. Sad that its only 8 episodes. LOVE Agent Peggy Carter. Hayley Atwell is amazing in this role. I guess that's why many love the Captain America movies!! Anyway, really good episode, quite enjoyed it. Peggy wanting to call in the Stark find, and Jarvis kindly telling her how she would be punished was a beautiful scene. Carter is amazingly smart and level headed, but everyone wants to have some recognition that their sacrifices mean something in the grand scheme of things. It's doubly worse for Carter, since she is living in a time that diminished female contribution. I really felt for her. Jarvis I like a lot, and the story of his wife brought tears. He mentioned Budapest (and pronounced it correct) and his wife being Jewish. Hungary was one of the many countries that deported a large number of their Jewish population to the concentration camps in WWII. My parents (and me by extension) are Hungarian, and my mother remembers seeing Stalin walking down the street (yes I know, later date), but it still hits the heart. Whew...need to lighten things up....I assume Anna is a Hungarian Jew, so hey, bring on the Chicken Paprikash, Lecso and Dobos Torte!! I felt really bad for Angie, but I totally understand why Peggy is standoffish. Not only did her previously roomie get killed, but she really cannot divulge too much of her life. And as illustrated in this episode - sometimes she cannot just sit around drinking schnapps. She has to go off and do more important things. I really like Sousa's character also - he's going through the same discrimination (in a way) that Peggy is. She is considered not so capable, due to gender. He is considered not so desirable due to his war injury. And Peggy kicking ass ---> AH-mazing. I really like this show. I understood the scene as they knew he had filed a stolen car report, but figured Jarvis did that to throw off the trail. The guy interrogating even says that. They "claimed" that the car report was "lost", but they really were hiding that the report existed from Jarvis. Carter picked up the report, then deliberately told her superior about the report when Jarvis could hear her. By doing this, Jarvis knew that he didn't have to confess anything or be intimidated, because the stolen car report was there, backing up his initial story.

Well then, I guess that means you are not going to be watching episode 2.15. (I don't blame you at all) Episode 2.15 Spellcaster - Extended Synopsis. I don't know man...I just don't know...