HalcyonDays

Again, SO MUCH lost opportunity. It literally makes me cry. Again, the basis and little crumbs were already set in season one, so they could have built on it. A love whammy would also nicely explain why Crane lost all brain cells and reason and logic whenever the name Katrina was mentioned, or she physically appeared. And it would make sense too. How could she be sure that Ichabod would fall in love with her? Oh wait, it's because she's selfish and all about Me Me Me...and is Goffman's muse, so of course everyone would fall in love with her...*side eye* You know what's the worst - is people defending Katrina over the whole Mary thing. Katrina actually had to hide Mary's body somewhere. Her parents lost a daughter. Ichabod lost a close childhood friend. Katrina deceived Ichabod with that letter. Do you know how they are defending it? "It's a grey area, because he had to be a Witness." Yeah...uh no. I believe it's called "Involuntary Manslaughter." Hiding the body? Probably "criminal negligence." or "Desecration of a Corpse" or something. People go to jail for these type of things....I dare you to try that in real life, Katrina defenders...I dare you....

Here is your thread for all of your theories, thoughts and speculations for S05: E10 - Them. Sounds ominious, doesn't it? The actual thread will open at 10:00 pm EST Sunday night. As always, be respectful and don't post any comic spoilers in here or there.

If you've read the comics, be very careful to avoid spoiling those who don't, and keep in mind that some people may have much stricter notions of what a spoiler is. Any substantial comic talk should go in the comics thread; minor discussion is okay here, but be very liberal with the spoiler tags, and don't give away too much outside the tags either.

Totally forgot to mention sleazy Prosecutor, who set up the mob guys and threatened to set up Annalise. What a corrupt bastard for threatening her. I hope she nails him to the wall somehow, if the mob doesn't get to him first. And apparently it's going to be good to have the mob on Annalise' side. Wonder is she'll call in a favour?? I forgot one little nitpick (sort of a nitpick). I get that the Keating 4 are now distracted with what's been going on and you know, getting arrested, but I cannot believe someone like Michaela didn't notice the missing scales of the trophy. Scratch that - I can't believe that Asher didn't notice. Those two are so obsessed with it.. Michaela has an excuse, in the sense of she's preoccupied, but Asher isn't, so would focus back on that coveted trophy/murder weapon.

Hey, where are you guys on the rewatch?? Let me know what needs to be pinned/unpinned...thanks! Also, all of the threads have been created for season 1, so I need to know when to start with season 2.

Damn, this show....this show.....I think at the end of every episode, my mouth drops and I go.."Nooo.....that did not just happen." Wow - great episode. I was on the edge of my seat when they were searching Annalise's house. Thought for sure they'd find traces of blood. Good for Annalise for cleaning up very thoroughly. Same with Michaela's ring - I thought they found it, then Frank transferred Nate's fingerprints onto the ring. Damn show. But Michaela's ring will be found. I may be the only one, but I wanted to slap Hannah. MGH is a great actress, but her repeating "Arrest her. Arrest her." over and over. Oh god, shutup you crazy person." Even the cops were like looking at her like she was insane. I was rooting for Annalise to get one up on her, simply for the screeching. Bonnie figuring it out!! Wow. But is she in love with Annalise or at least obsessed, because just strange. And let me say that Asher is hilarious. I'm glad that he's not part of the mess, and is cracking jokes and none the wiser. He's a good element to balance out the rest. I just hope he somehow doesn't get framed for this. His alibi is Bonnie, but she will just deny him being with her.... Throwing poor Nate under the bus...as everyone said, that's cold. But I bet next episode there will be a twist where this is all planned. That's what I love about the show. When you think Annalise is betraying someone, she is actually scheming. However, the previews don't seem to indicate that. But Nate didn't look too surprised to be arrested, so either he expected to be betrayed, or offered himself up. Michaela and Connor will be the downfall of the group - they are too paranoid and too worried about it. Wes seems to be in a daze and only Laurel seems to have it together.

I just got into this show about 7 episodes ago and it really hooked me. Love the dynamic between Watson and Sherlock. Great show. How are the rest of the seasons?? Really enjoyed this episode too. I will question why Joan feels the need to completely nix her personal life for detective work. I understand her fear of loved ones getting hurt, but the same kind of logic can apply to anyone in the actual police department, FBI agents, lawyers who prosecute, juries who convict and judges who sentence, prison wardens, etc. There is a risk of course, but these people have lives and families. Sad though because it seemed like she wasn't fulfilled before, joined that company, but now is telling herself that she really didn't need a life or a relationship and has to devote herself only to investigations. It's like she's trying to convince herself otherwise due to grief. When Sherlock said 'Zeb-rahs', I had to rewind to ensure I heard it correctly. God, I love that pronunciation. I've actually never heard it pronounced like that before. I'm Canadian, so for me, the end of the alphabet goes EX - WHY - ZEE, but if I were to pronounce the letter Z individually, it's ZED. But I still say Zee-brah. It's that US/British mix some of us were taught! Oh, and I covet Watson's apartment and Sherlocks brownstone. Beautiful living spaces.

Aw guys....you made it five days before someone reported a post..FIVE DAYS! I was so proud of you, so proud of my fellow zombie lovers for giving me less work.... *sigh* /*soclose*/ ...................... On a serious note, yes, let's not start flinging the word racist or any other insults around. There is a long-standing joke about TWD that when a POC shows up, another POC dies. But it is not a deliberate "let's get rid of all POC" going on here. It's based on character storyline (and sometimes reflect comic events), actor availability, budget even. There are factors that we just don't know about. TWD is a very diverse and well-cast show, so let's not simply dismiss character deaths or events as pure racism or whatever. I will say that overall, this week everyone has been excellent with your posts, respectful, intelligent and funny! Let's continue that trend!! Thanks!

Just read that TV Guide article again, that Indi posted. And once again, it's all Katrina, Katrina, Katrina. I really hate Goffman with 1000 suns. Like, I want to gather a copy of every single article and review about Sleepy Hollow, and every forum post there has been about the show, and highlight and underline how many times the phrase "Katrina is boring" and "CFD is boring" and "Katrina kills the show." and "Ichabod and Katrina have no chemistry" and show it to him. And really make him understand it. Then I want to show him everytime the words "Abbie and Ichabod are the heart of the show" and "Abbie and Ichabod have amazing chemistry" and "without them, there would be no show" and force him to repeat this mantra over and over again until he gets it into his thick skull. It's obvious that he has a politicans mindset. Never looking at the greater good or what's the best for the masses. No, instead he only does what solely benefits him and tries to spin a tale to convince the masses his is right. Problem is the masses are much smarter than he arrogantly thinks, and know for a fact how wrong he is.

I sorta disagree. I think Jenny needs to stay and Irving - or a good link to the police department - needs to be around also. X-Files had Mulder and Scully as the core, but AD Skinner was there to direct them, or be an obstacle, or provide them with info, etc. The baddie was of course Cancer Man/The Syndicate. Re-occuring help was from Deep Throat and X. I would make a case that SH could do an X-Files (they have tried, but are not Chris Carter - i.e. fascinated with gov't conspiracy and alien abduction. You have your stand alone cases of the week/MotW which would mostly be Abbie and Ichabod. You also have your apocalypse type more serious end of days scenarios. These are the ones they could be building a world on, dropping hint after hint. So Jenny, because of her kickass skills, snark with Ichabod, overall hilarious quips and humour, and her artifact hunting are needed. Irving - or some link to the police force - to guide them, provide info, sometimes be an obstacle, ala Skinner. You could have an secret informant, like a X or Deep Throat. SH tries this, but their pacing was off. Everything revolved around the Apolcaypse and there were never any cases were the person was just a stone cold serial killer or just messed up. They could have had shows where the Witnesses think it's linked, but it's really not, but a lesson is learned in their fight. Things like an episode could have focused on Irving, but been a stand alone case resolved at the end of the episode (they did that with Skinner multiple times). Its funny to me that the episodes where Mulder was so focused on his sister Samantha - to the detriment of Scully - I disliked, and remind me of the episodes where Ichabod is so focused on Katrina, to the detriment of Abbie. You could have stand alone episodes with Ichabod, stand alone with Abbie, some down time, etc. Somehow I've gone off on a tangent. Basically, there was so much opportunity to do so much more. The core should always have been Ichabbie. Jenny needs to stay to provide her skills and support and snark. And you need to have a Skinner-like older mentor to guide them along (Hello, long lost Corbin...what could have been). The four need to stay - them and only them. Everyone else flits in and out of the show. Just my opinion.

That interview is strange because it doesn't even seem very Mison-like in the answers. Also, the looks that he gives Abbie sure doesn't make it seem like he dislikes her. In fact, they have him want to spent time with Abbie (over the wife) so many times, you've gotta wonder. He also spouted the whole, "this season, we'll see why Ichabod is so in love with Katrina." This is the same stock response we got from Katia Winter. However, we all know it's BS and something we have never seen on screen, just Crane saying empty words. It's almost like they were schooled to say certain things, lines by the powers that be. Strange interview. But if anything, Abbie should be the one to dislike lots of what Crane is doing,saying, not the other way around. I get what you mean, though.

Great episode. This is such a fun quirky show and the main characters are awesome. Love the comfort level and connection and camraderie between Jo and Henry. They work so well together, and are good for each other. I wasn't a fan of "Oh look, pretty lady is holding a baby - suddenly she's so much more attractive." *hearteyes*. Its just not a trope I like - hate actually. But still a really cute scene. Lucas is one of my favourites. He started off as annoying at times, but he really is such a lively fun quirky person, that provides some humour. And Abe and Henry have such a good relationship. Kudos to the actors for conveying this so well, even though there is the age difference that might make it hard to look past. In this case, it works well. I really hope they renew. It's such a fun show and really growing into it's own.

Better be mother and son, that's all I have to say. So my curmudeonly self is starting to get annoyed with Aaron Baiers. To give him HUGE credit, he has taken his own time to reach out to the SH fans and communicate positively, of which no other writer or showrunner did. So I give him props for that. But today's, he's cheerleading and saying fans have to let FOX know to save the show, blah blah. Well, you know what? If you (FOX/Writers/Goffman) didn't allow bad storytelling and shoving Katrina into the forefront to happen, NONE of this would happen. Why on earth should I cheerlead now, when I (the fans, review articles) TOLD you guys over and over again what works with the show. "Focus on Abbie and Ichabod". "Abbie and Ichabod make the show." "Without their chemistry the show is nothing." For good measure "CFD is boring" - this was said in season 1 - and "Katrina drags down the show/iz boring." So why on earth are you now asking the fans to be positive, tell FOX how much the fans love the show, campaign for renewal, that the time is now. The time is now?? The time was Season 2, episode 1 when all of a sudden, everything revolved around Katrina and boring CFD. None of this would have happened in the first place if the (the writers) and FOX listened to the feedback from SEASON 1 in the first place. If FOX took the effort to promote this show, it would be more well known. We wouldn't be in this place, worried about a cult show's cancellation. So though I admire him for tackling the mess that is the SH fandom, I'm at a point now where the cheerleading is annoying me. I don't want cheerleading. I don't want any "let's band together' BS that he's talking about. The fact is that the show's renewal is a business decision. A thousand people tweeting FOX means nothing, if the network loses revenue based on lower ratings based on poor storytelling and irritating characters. Basically - don't waste my time with filler and fluff and false hope, and tell me to do the work to "save" the show, when it was your (Fox, writers, showrunner) poor decisions in the first place. It reminds me of the mess right now with Target Canada. All of the little working minions lost their jobs and are getting a small severance. But the CEO walked away with total compensation worth 50+ million. The big guys made the mistakes, but the little ones suffer for it and have to pick up the slack. Rant over.

I agree, DeLurker. Never before, and never again. This show was special to me for reasons. But just like it was "batshit' insane on screen, it was batshit insane behind the scenes. What a waste. I wonder if many people jumped ship because of that finale synopsis and simply said "I'm done with this."

What. The. Hell? No promos (I never see them) and this is what they give us (you). Wow. That kinds of creeps me out, gives me second hand embarrassment. Someone is trolling hard, I think. What, with the release of the finale synopsis, strange interviews, and that mess over at SpoilerTV, amongst other things, I swear someone is doing this on purpose from behind the scenes to make sure the show is 100% done. Oh, and guess what the mindset is the Ickatrina crowd?? They want the show cancelled. If it's not Katrina front and centre, it should be cancelled. I wonder if Goffman thinks this way too...hmmm....*puts on TinFoil Hat*. Anyway, it's just weird. "Strange things at afoot at the Sleepy Hollow K."

Well then...that's not looking good for renewal, I tell ya. What a drop from last week. From what I heard, in the US, there was a little promo at the beginning with Katrina in it, and some people say "No" and didn't bothering watching it, because they thought it was all CFD/Katrina. Also, FOX is being so stingy with promos, that there wasn't much else out there to indicate otherwise. Or people have said fuck it, and have given up. What. A. Mess.

Good episode. Great interaction between Penguin and Nygma. Nygma's starting to grow on me, to be honest. Penguin though - he still bothers me that he is begging for protection, blah blah. Find your own protection, Penguin and then figure out how to gain power. Loved Maroni and Falcone's little conversation. Here they are, complete rivals but they respect each other, have nice little interactions. If those two ever teamed up..man. Good luck Gotham. Fish in the prison. Damn, once she finds out whose holding her prisoner, I do not envy those people. and the POOR woman whose eyes were removed. God, that was horrible and so disturbing. And you know Fish is going to make an example out of them. Just creepy as all heck. I totally get why Jim is hesitant about the public displays of affection and honestly, he is right. They shouldn't be making out in the precinct. It may seem cold of him to say it, but he's right - it's not professional and it undermines both of their authority.. There will be whisperings of favouritism. I get it, honestly. Put it this way, if they both have a disagreement or opposite opinions, it will be viewed as a 'lovers spat' instead of hard facts being used to judge a case or situation. The flip side if that if Jim sides with Leigh, not the Captain, then he's only siding with the ME because they are a couple, not because of logic and hard fact. They shouldn't have told anyone they are together. Thought the final scene with Bruce and Alfred was sweet. It's like Alfred really wants to be considered Bruce's father in a way, and Bruce is really fighting to accept that. But you can see them growing closer. I like it.

For those who care or are curious (I'm one of them), that battleship that Crane and Abbie were on the deck of is (I believe) the USS North Carolina, located in...duh duh duh - Wilmington, NC (where they film the show). The pier they walked on looked exactly like that patio/pier they were on when drinking coffee in an earlier episode. I love these ship museums that one can tour about. If anyone is interested, link to their site.

All three of these things - So dead on!! Add in: Jenny Mills Historical Twistory (plus the flashbacks) Ichabod snark/rants about the modern world. Tom Mison's eyebrow. Ichabod Crane's Rev War coat (I miss that coat).

Seriously?? This occured? Thank god I am Canadian - I never saw any of this. I would throw something at the TV, dammit. Idiots. For the millionth time, Marketing at FOX - very, very FEW care about Katrina. If they did, ratings wouldn't be so poor. Grab a concept - no one cares about her, no one wants to see her. Just think about the first Crane scene in this episode. He is depicted strolling along the pier, during a glorious day, just chatting and spending time together with another woman. Yet it was not his wife. No, it was ABBIE. That's right. Abbie. Not his wife. Abbie. Doing something that most couples do. In and of itself, it is very strange, but at the same time, not. Most normal relationships would have Crane wanting to be with his wife. But this relationship is not that. No, what I personally see on screen, is that if I were Crane, I would rather spend time with Abbie, because she is fun, exciting, I can talk to her, be myself, not be so reserved and not have lies upon lies hanging over myself, Damn, what a rant. But it's no mystery why Crane chooses Abbie over his wife. Who needs that kind of messed up drama?

Good episode. Very entertaining - and my Witnesses were together in full force without napping Witch messing with their momentum. One complaint I had - goddamn it!! Seriously. You couldn't just pop down there once in a while, take out a minion (Reavers) or two until they were all gone? Then all of that library - ALL of that information wouldn't have been lost. It makes my cry, like knowing about the libraries of Alexandria and what was lost. Why was it so imminent? There was no immediate peril. That information was priceless. Crane and Abbie rescued the two guys and sealed the hatch before it got destroyed - Crane went back in and destroyed the place later. *sigh* writers. Otherwise, a good episode. I just wish they fleshed out more of WHY those two were Witnesses. I want some answers, and these writers are so stingy with them. I hate that. I mean think about it - Crane had to be shelved for 200+ years for them to be together. There are logistics here that haven't been explained!! Jenny - Oh god, Jenny Mills - what a BEAUTIFUL gorgeous person (and I covet her hair). Helps Frank but doesn't let her guard down for one second. Wonderful. And so like her sister, and I LOVE it. Frank being shady, acting weird and Jenny knew it right away!! Hell ya! My only sad was that by saying he wanted his wedding ring back - what, no more Mrs and Mr Bamf?? So sad. Lyndie Greenwood and Orlando Jones - a complete blessing and awesomeness added to the show. To that point - this must be an 18th century thing - all of the delicate female napping. Katrina, what do you possibly do? You don't work, you don't tend house (sorry to sound sexist), you don't magic. What do you DO to cause yourself such exhaustion. Why must you be napping all of the time, resting after such extreme exertion... (oh wait, I was thinking of ABBIE). Out of 55 minutes of a good episode, I am still compelled to write about useless Katrina, who only took up one minute of time. That was one minute too many.

#1) I think in some cases yes. I swore last season they released the synopsis for the SH finale a couple weeks in advance. It was spoilery, but written in a way that didn't give huge clues to that BIG reveal at the end. Also, that episode ended with a cliffhanger - this one will not. Are you thinking the finale synopsis was correct, just released too soon? #2) I think in some cases, yes. I swear I remember LOST having alternate endings, because the show runners were so adamant that no spoilers get out, therefore some of the actors didn't know. Seinfeld did it too, and released the alternate ending on the DVD. There are a few more shows that have done it, I just can't think of them. I don't think it's that common though, unless the show is big and wants to really be secretive about stuff. I seem to think that Walking Dead did that in season 2. It's not unheard of. Same with shooting multiple scenes and then the show runner decides on which one to use. I don't think SH is like this - they are already scrambling last minute as it is. The actors know what will be released and whose is gone from the show.

Maybe the bodies were destined to be used as weapons. Like in Medieval times, when plague infected corpses were lobbed over castles wall, hoping to infect the occupants? Maybe there was another community they were trying to attack and were going to lob those bodies inside a gated community?? And your bold - my mind also has gotten creepy from this show, because of the previous paragraph. The only thing I couldn't watch was the amputation - the rest was fine. :'( The burning of the houses made no sense though - it's not like Bob's Construction Company is around to rebuild. Leave the buildings alone. You may need them one day.

Herschel's death was more shocking to me, more just for HOW he died - i.e. the Governor decapitating him via Michonne's katana. It was sudden and cruel and disturbing. Carol shooting Lizzie was another tone, because MMB just made me cry, but she was so resolute that it was the right thing to do (and it was). I though this episode with T-Dog was good, but very trippy. The opening was a bit confusing, in the sense of if you didn't remember little details. But with T-Dog, all I could think about was the blood loss, and that he should have passed out long before they were hauling him through the forest. The hallucinations, I totally got and more people would probably experience that. But his was more long, drawn out and sad - but also avoidable. It's like CDB mentality is starting to invade again.

I totally agree. He hard a hard time with pulling the trigger/stabbing with the knife of whatever, but he still could've beat the shit out of Martin. Dude's still alive, but in a seriously bad way, therefore not able to attack Judith or anyone else. I guess it just fits with the big burly bear overall - just a sweetheart that wouldn't hurt a fly. The problem is that the current world is a honeytrap and will find a way to kill you (or at least destroy you) if you let it.