HalcyonDays

Yup she did. Because she says to Jenny re: Grace Dixon. "I met Grace. I wish you could've been there." Both Katrina and Abbie remembered their experiences in the past, but no other did because it hadn't occurred. By bringing Abbie and Katrina to the moment the spell was cast/slash/reversed, Abbie and Katrina technically never went into the past, therefore nothing was changed. They remembered it because their brains still had memories of the experience. It's like, you take five steps forward, five steps back. Your position didn't change, but you remember making those steps.

Forgot to add: COTW - what a stupid priest. I guess I have no morals or conviction, because I would rather spill information that would "damage" my reputation, then spend 30 years in prison. I guess I belong with the other HTGAWM people. But since he did kill the other priest, I guess he deserves it...kinda. I hate it when people do stupid things. Bonnie and Asher are adorable together. Asher may seem a bit immature, but he's not in the mix of things. He has no heavy guilt and deception weighing over him. He's a nice contrast to the others, who are so messed up. I'm glad he's innocent. Just wait till next season though. He's gonna get set up Laurel holding Michaela's ring. Damn! However, I notice that Laurel said she found it in Wes's car. Does that mean that Michaela put it there are forgot, or someone else put it there?? Poor, poor Nate. Dude did NOT deserve this. At all. Once again, Annalise is the best bet for his freedom, but at the same time, she messed him up. Big time. He does not deserve this....poor thing.

This show....this show....Frank did it! OMG! And why did Frank OWN Sam. My immediate reaction was that Annalise knew also, but then I second guessed myself. Maybe she didn't know, that's why the earlier (in the season) baby reveal was so devastating to her. However, if she doesn't want her reputation ruined, getting rid of Lila may have been a good move. The scene where Annalise is comforting Wes - so sweet and sad. Telling you, she's somehow his mother or something. I had to rewind and watch the Michaela and Aiden's mother scene. Damn woman, that was amazing. She quoted the great Samantha Jones (Sex and the City). "I love me more." Like I said, first I thought she did, then no. This show is all about people playing each other so well. Everyone has an agenda and everyone plays everyone else. Frank's earlier comment to Laurel, how he was angry that Laurel thought him a "hitman." Deliberate. Dude is a hitman. Damn....this show.....

I just wanted to comment on two of the little nitpicky things I thought of, that pissed off a lot of people in this season (and kinda last). First, the whole "Abbie is supporting Ichabod." Yup, she was, but I don't think she spent much cash on him. Food and clothing, basically. The cabin was rent free (ok, utilities) but other than food, some toileties, and a couple changes of outfit, she didn't spend much, I don't think. However....Katrina blew up Abbie's $20,000+ Jeep SUV. Just remember that. She blew up Abbie's expensive car. SMH. Second, complaints that Abbie lost a lot (she did), what with her mother going crazy, Jenny at Tarrytown, her personal issues, etc, but Ichabod lost nothing. His kid and wife were with him. Well, not anymore. At this moment, Crane has lost his career, the life that he knew, his wife and his kid (not like he knew him). The slate is clean. Just wanted to point this out. Now to quote Mison in an interview somewhere, Crane has a "new family now". Abbie, Jenny and Irving. I'm very happy about this and I love that he said that. His new 21st century family (so preferrably over the old one, I tell you....). I want to see season 3 and interactions with his new family. This is how SH will so right itself!

Actually, most of them wanted Katrina to come back from the 18th century and be still knocked up, and season 3 would be about her "growing child" and the love that her and Ichabod would have raising this new child together. (No word if it was a demon child). * InsertAbbieMillsEyeRoll * If there was any hint of that, I would immediately bail. I'm not sure my love for Mison is such that I could watch any of that....*shudder*

My messed up TV watching list: Constantine (*sob*), Forever (*sob - why do all my shows hover around cancellation...), Agent Carter, Gotham, How to get Away with Murder (great show), just got into Elementary, The Walking Dead (nothing better than some apocalyptic rotting zombies). My mid-season/summer replacement shows will be: TURN, Extant and The Last Ship. My foodie shows: Chopped, Chopped Canada (as I yell at the judges), and any of the behind the scenes "How food is manufactured." Weird, I know. Apparently I like murder mysteries, light fluffy stuff, food, end of the world gore and historically-based series. *shrug*

Throw Rick in the show, get him new clothes, and trim his beard and he will look HOT in no time. I don't mind the beard - he lookes like Grizzly Grimes. (his last name is appropriate now, isn't it). Besides, Rick's got better things to do then worry about hipster beard trimming. He's old school nature boy!

No. More like the thoughts and opinions and things that commenters at SpoilerTV tended to think was great, were the exact same things most of us thought what went wrong with the show. It's kinda scary, actually. For example, some of those people thought the demon pregnancy was a wonderful idea. Most of us here though, thought is was a terrible idea.

Come to the dark side of shipping with me, Sparkling Beth! Muhaha! I agree with your entire post but I just picked out a few lines. They already are so close, hang out together, so adding a bit more here and there, like a actual dinner together in a restaurant, or dancing or whatever inches them closer to coupledom. But as you said, as long as it's not done for ratings, but because it makes sense. (It makes sense, writers!) It would be a shame to waste that chemistry and connection the two have. I get a kick out of people using the term "platonic" love now, because someone else on another board pointed out she would love to see Ichabbie platonically, because most people don't know what the term originally meant. So I looked it up and was like, Hell Ya! Platonic Love all of the way!! Why? I got a kick out of that. So yeah, bring on the "Platonic love" please. *grin*

Everyone's thoughts and opinion count, as long as it's respectful and doesn't slam anyone else, or dismiss others because they are not the same. As for the "outrage" at the gay kiss. I thought it was sweet...Awww... Also, for those outraging, there were so others things that happened in that episode, but hey lets focus on that kiss. Rotting zombie bodies turned to mush all over a car, and two people pulling rotting guts out of a grille - hey, not a problem! The worry that going to this safe place would be another Terminus or Woodbury. Who cares. The team fighting off a huge number of walkers. Meh. But wait, what? A kiss between two men!! OMG!! Cue REM: "It's the end of the world as we know it..." Idiots.

That's because Actions speak Louder than Words. He spouted sonnets, but they never seemed to have that physical connection. Compare that to how Ichabod simply LOOKS at Abbie. I know it's a combination of height (when he looks down at Abbie, his eyes look more...wanting) and the obviously chemistry. There was one scene last season early on, when they are in the Archives and Crane tells Abbie to go make amends with her sister. He's leaning on something, eyes downcast, then slowly looks up at Abbie. Damn, that was amazing. Just a look was all it took. Wow. He never had that with Katrina. Just meaningless words. I guess I in the minority in this, but I do ship them big time. Wholeheartedly. Love em to death. I just like them spending time together and wish we could see more downtime, like watching movies together or stuff. I just think they would make an amazing couple. I've always said, Abbie makes Ichabod a better man and I think that - with a few exceptions - Ichabod has been a positive influence in Abbie's life. For those who loved the "epic love" story of the Crane, what is more epic than a man that has travelled through time and is fated to be with you and who shares a unique - supernatural I think - bond to you. That is the true love story of SH.

And this SpoilerTV writer guy is just a replacement for the regular guy who does the reviews. However, the regular guy's reviews were just as bad, to the point of not being able to write the characters names correct. Katrina was Katarina. Irving was Irvine. Facts were wrong, grammer was terrible but - just like this guy - the other guy was definately a Katrina-stan. One commenter asked if English was his second language, and he said he had an English degree!! I wonder if original guy bailed at writing the last episode reviews because he was so upset over the Katrina-goes-evil story plot. What I don't understand is that FOX allowed these terrible reviews to be allowed to go on. Okay, yes they were biased to Katrina, but these reviews are intended to get the audience to watch, right? As a professional organization, I would not want one of my products (the TV Show) so poorly represented. Personal blog reviews are one thing, but these guys get clips and what not, so they have to be somehow in the know. When Deliverance came out, I think there were only one of two sites that positively RAVED about the episode. Everyone else decimated it with criticism. With that crazy Sandra person and the Ichabod RPGer, again I really don't understand what they are watching. I can only deduce they just fast-forward thought all Ichabbie scenes, which gives them 5 minutes of viewing material, but they have no idea what's going on overall in the show. Ichabod RPGer got so angry she (yes, it's a she) bent her ring. Just insane. If I was Mison, I'd find a way to get her to remove my character's picture from her twitter site. No need to reflect badly on myself and my character with that mess. Also, Orlando needs to write a book. First, the clusterfuck that went on behind the scenes in season 2 AND how the cast reacted to all of the twitter and tumblr stuff on the Internet - the funny Ichabbie stuff and the delusional racists stuff. I would PAY MONEY to sit in a bar with these people and get the scoop!!

Sorry, both jhlipton and catrox14. Posts edited because I want to give credit where credit is due for such an awesome saying!! Yes they did. What makes me laugh is at the end of last years season finale, all of the media and commenters were RAVING over this twist. It was Brilliant! It was Unexpected! Best twist in 10 Years!! And they squandered it. By attaching Katrina to the mix as a goodie, and trying to redeem a baddie, they hugely screwed up. The direction of Henry's story could have been so much better - basically have Crane resolute in his wanting to take out Henry. Remember what Ichabod (and WE ALL) said. "He never KNEW Henry." So there is no connection there. At All. Then have Katrina waver, have her slowly seduced to the dark side, which Ichabbie have to fight off so much. Take out all of behaviour changes due to Katrina's Vortex of Stupidity and that's it. If the writers next year have any sense, there will be a time jump as some have suggested, and Crane will have his closure, no longer be mourning. You know what? Mison's may be claiming it was an accident, but I think it's only for two reasons. One, so his character doesn't come off as a cold-blooded killer of his wife. Two, in attempts to not alienate a portion of fandom (way too late though for that one though). I watched it again last night. Ichabod pushes his body forward and at the same time, pulls Katrina's towards him, into the knife. If he's trying a self-defense move, or one to avoid a knife would be to push that person's body AWAY from yours, to get the knife away from both people. He moved forward, put his arm around her back and pulled into a hug like motion then lunged forward her with the knife. Make no mistake, this was definately no accident. And I am not complaining at all. He finally did what he needed to do. Good work, Crane!

Ha ha. No, didn't spent that much time. The comments irritate me too much to read for long. If you count the number of white characters in an ensemble cast, you might be a racist. (written like the I am a redneck jokes - appropriate maybe?) These bloody people...

Yes. Yes we are. We are always lurking around. In this case, it's to be ready to give a smackdown like this. Knock Off the Shipping Arguments. Shipping tends to be one of the MOST controversial topics ever, along with Money, Politics, Religion and Beth apparently. I've hidden some posts. Some may return, some may not, but in the meantime, move on from arguing back and forth on Shipping. Some do, some do not. That is all. This thread is to discuss SPOILERS and Speculation of those spoilers, not about The Walking Dead Ship Wars. Oh - as for Spoilers. This whole thread is tagged as containing Spoilers. Any spoilers can go in here without tags. Basically - Read at your own risk.

I'm on rewatch three too. Considering half of the season, I deleted from my DVR in absolute disgust, this is very good (Hear that FOX). I too though Mison and Beharie did amazing this episode. The show could just be those two, with tertiary characters and be amazing (But I do love Lyndie and Orlando!) Your comment about the nap made me laugh, because I mentioned that a couple episodes ago - Abbie and Ichabod are fighting off Reavers, and Katrina is....napping. Again. So yeah, I agree. She can spend eternity with his murderous son drinking Quince Tea before settling in for a nice nap. Remember it always has to be Quince Tea!. I had to go back to remember who first wrote this. catrox14, this is genius! Katrina's Vortex of Stupidity (tm:catrox14) See, this episode was still true to her character. Shady as hell. Selfish (not treating the wounded soldiers). Self-serving (Getting Headless to do her dirty work). Bad spy (Crane caught on very quickly), unable to complete a task (not killing Ichabod).

I'm still scrolling to find your post, cynic. Hopefully it wasn't deleted. In the meantime, what is it WITH this SpoilerTV guy person. He's attacking everyone, and pretending that he himself is being attacked (dear god, sounds like how certain people try to defend Katrina's actions). Dude, just DO NOT respond. Stop responding. He is taking everything anyone says personally. Sheesh. I see TV Juriste is in there giving reality checks too. Excellent. Then someone wrote this comment: I cannot with this comment....Can you imagine...? That would be absolutely horrible..... (ETA: The comment above was someone else's) Thank you for doing a True Fan's work, cynic. Also, What. Are. These. People. Seeing. On. Screen

Hee. "Ichabod suddenly believes Katrina is evil for no reason." Nope, no reason at all... * Insert AbbieMillsPatentedEyeRoll *

This has to be it, because the mindset is so similar and the opinions are almost identical, it's almost scary. I mean, they honestly believe that Katrina had no cause in Mary Wells death (see how that hold up in court) and that Ichabod is treating his wife so poorly and she's an innocent victim. That Jon Stewart quote illustrates it perfectly. I believe it. SpoilerTV has almost always had more pro-Kat comments, but they are actively deleting other ones and calling the comments "argumentative". Sure, dude. When I can sit there and take down every point about Katrina with sheer canon fact from the show, it's not me being "negative". It's me being right. :')

You better be right, jhlipton!! *grin*

*checks DVDs* Damn - you are right! Typo by me (the subforums have to be coded by someone else). I'll ask them to remove it - it may be a while though. Yes, there are only SEVEN season of DS9, not nine. Duh. Is Corrected.

Raven1707 - we have a Media thread HERE for announcements and articles about the show. Someone else posted the EW article, so I'll leave yours here for now, but for future reference, use the Media thread. Oh, and thank you for the warning. Awesome! A NINETY MINUTE finale. So EXCITED!

Thank you guys. Much appreciated. We don't want any comic spoilers in the thread itself, but if they have to be included, liberally Spoiler Tag. Spoiler Tags are your friend. Adding a link to another site with articles that contain spoilers is not a problem. The best bet is to put a little disclaimer - basically "Beware that this link and or the comments contain spoilers." If some one chooses to click the link, that's their perogative. At least they are forewarned. Personally, I like spoilers, but since some don't, simply warn them. Then everyone wins! Also, please try not to insert really large pictures into the thread. Some people scroll on mobile and it may make viewing more annoying or slower for them. Either put the picture in SpoilerTags with a description, or find a smaller version. I'll leave them for now, but just be careful for future posts. Just a heads up. Other than that, Happy Posting!

I Love this. Katrina's vortex of stupidity. So so true!! LOL That's was one of the many problems with - Ichabod became a fool in her presence and made poor decisions (kinda like Katrina herself). The last three episodes were (amongst other things) about Ichabod finally getting a clue. That's why last week when Crane's like "I didn't KNOW you Henry" it's was most of us have been saying all along. Mison himself is quoted as saying he was thankful to the writers for that line, because he knows how badly Ichabod has been written this season, even saying that Crane's been weak. Ichabod saving Abbie was season 1 Ichabod. No wonder most reviews and opinions say episode 18 was like season 1.

Awww. that's terrible...but funny....but terrible...but really funny....! Ha! I like it!! I put this in media, but it also belongs here. Why Katrina Had to Die. So so true...