HalcyonDays

That's what I always thought too - which is why its weird that Abraham became the Horseman over his "love" for Katrina. I always thought he was angry because he was jealous. In fact he even says something like "how will it look to the public" or something like that. That's not a man in love. And makes Katrina's desire to help Abraham even stranger. She wasn't supposed to be in love with him. She tells Ichabod she doesn't love Abe. It's why some of us believe she's shady. Or at least, inconsistent in her behaviour.

I haven't watched any of the Captain America movies, nor Agents of Shield, or any of the Marvel's shows and movies, but on some whim, I taped this and gave it a chance. Totally LOVED it. Really enjoyed this and I am in. I think Hayley Atwell is awesome as Agent Carter and am looking forward to the next episode. Also love the 40's vibe of the show. Jarvis, his character is interesting too, and I wonder what his end game/plan is. Seems he's playing Miss Carter a bit. Too bad this show has only 8 episodes - I would love to see an extension or at least a second season.

You know, we keep mentioning Goffman as showrunner taking over, and people want Orci and Kurtzman back, but there was another person that left SH last year. Jose Molina. He was a co-executive producer of the show. I totally forgot about this, but when watching Agent Carter last night, his name popped up as co-executive producer. I remembered him from Castle. I like the guy, quirky and really enthusiastic about the show. He also worked with Mison before on some project. People keep wanting Orci and Kurtzman and the others to come back, by I don't think THEY want to come back. They have all moved on to other projects and if Sleepy Hollow were really something they were passionate about, they never would have left. What I can't help but wonder is why the mass exodus from the show at the end of last year and this season, the head costume designer bailed before seasons end. Just makes me wonder what's going on behind the scenes.

Etch-a-Sketch! haha and so dead on. It really does feel like it. That, or like they have a pile of note cards with vague plot lines written on them, and then just throw them up into the air and pick up a few to get the next episode. As for the Scooby-gang, maybe one has to be stoned to really get it?? And I agree - there are little disconnected scenes that seem added on later, all because of the fan backlash. Maybe if they did right by the show in the first place, they wouldn't have to work overtime cobbling together these last minute scenes.

After some rambling in the Paradise Lost thread... They keep referring to separating Abraham from the "Avatar of Death." And the show says that they will have an episode that is heavy in Hinduism. In Hindiusm, an avatar is supposed to mean a deliberate descent of a diety to Earth (thanks Wiki). I guess that's the episode that Abraham will somehow be freed/redeemed...hmmm...

Actually, Crane is qualified for a lot of stuff. Linguist. Freelance translator. Museum guide. History tutor. English tutor, Music teacher, Editor. Essay Writer (those that get paid to write college/university papers for others). Translator and Tutoring are the most obvious, because he could freelance and offer the services online. And like Delurker said - if Hawley gets him some credentials, he could be a professor, assistant professor, something educational. I still think Tutor, because he likes to teach, but lacks the degrees (right now). And don't let slender body and seemingly delicate nature of Crane fool you. He can do any type of physical labour. He should be used to it. Once his left his cushy family noble home, joining the military was not easy. There was a lot of physical labour required, coupled with those long marches. There would be a huge amount of physical labour that would be required of any person simply living in colonies, that none of us (most likely) have ever experienced. He could work as a butcher, work with horses, do some construction work, lots of stuff he could do, if there is an available job.

I made a comment earlier that Crane's being all 18th century thinking, but he's really not that far off from relateively recent modern day thinking. Wasn't it in the 40s and 50s and even 60s, where woman were encouraged to go to University, to earn their MRS. And even now, god forbid a woman have a kid and the father becomes the stay-at-home daddy, while the wife goes back to work. Some men today have major issues with it, since they should be the breadwinners. It's where the paygaps originated from. A man has to provide for his family (wife, kids) therefore needs more pay. A woman has a husband to suppliment, so doesn't deserve more pay. Hell, just look at the political drama in the US - we are still not so far removed from Crane's way of thinking. The only difference is that there is a choice. Some woman choose that life, other woman today respond like Abbie would, because they want to pursue other opportunities and have the option to do so. However, shows like the Real HouseWives series and those Duggar's speak otherwise. Sadly, I have to use the words SOME woman, because many still feel that marriage and snagging a man should be the first and foremost goal in a woman's life, and anything else is a waste of time (hello mom). As for Abraham, it's funny how sometimes one has a thought in their mind of how they see things going, but forgets to articulate it. For Abraham, I guess I see it as he doesn't return to being a full human. His soul, his essense is separated from the Horseman's physical shell, his soul them moves on, and another soul occupies the body shell, headless and all. That's for some reason how I see it, so by redeeming Abraham, you are releasing his soul from the body itself. Of course we saw that they physically transformed Abraham's body into Headless (though Abraham is smaller than Headless) so maybe it's pulling the spirit or soul of Death/Evil from the body. However, now I have to go to the Spoilers thread, because of the term they keep using - Avatar of Death.

Thanks, Agent Dark! Gotta read up on Hugo Strange. BTW, love your moniker!!

I absolutely LOVE this. HIlarious. I just grinned with glee when he showed up and kissed Jim hello. Hilarious. I truly love his character. Allyce Beasley! (the Nurse) I was like, that woman has barely aged! I thought they hinted well at how they knew it was the nurse. The director I think said that the staff had all been together for 5 years. When he looked at the list, he realized the nurse was not one of those ones there for so long. But either was Morrena Baccarin's doctor character either, so it was a slight misdirect, but not really. Penguin, Penguin, Penguin. I like his deviousness, and trying to become top dog. The problem with him is the physical part. All it takes is one good punch to take him down, and he becomes a simpering fool, cowering at everyone's feet. Someone like Maroni, Falcone or even Fish, all they need to do is have one of the Muscles punch Penguin (hell, lightly it seems) and that's it. He's on the ground knocked out, then you can simply tie him up, throw him in the trunk and dispose of him. That's it. He's just not a threat to me. It's the only part that I don't like. He just seems so ineffectual when even remotely physically threatened. Good episode. Christopher Heyerdahl's character - which villain does he become? I'm not familiar enough with the Batman-verse to figure it out.

That's why I don't think he should be condemned for this. People do stupid things all the time, and in this case, he was faced with actual Death. People get scared, plead for their lives. On top of that, Abraham didn't have time to read the "contract" or even fully understand what the Horseman of Death's job duties would entail. There was no time (I just stole Katrina's oft-repeated line!). That's why he doesn't necessarily deserve the consequences of his actions at the moment of duress (basically dying). For all we know, Moloch said to him - "Hey, wanna live forever? Join me!", Abe says yeah, and then Moloch is like 'Ha Ha, fool! I dub thee Horseman of Death." Yeah, he could have said no - but we don't know fully what he said YES to. Evil tricks people all of the time. And Abe's been on an angry rampage ever since. I would be. Problem is we just don't know, unfortunately.

The whole thing with Abraham having a choice to become the Horseman of Death is such a fine line. I don't think he was actively evil at all, just a jealous person. There are lots of people out there like that. The fact that he was dumped the night before, then Crane, being the idiot he is, asks his best friend for this blessing the day after, I was like 'The hell? Seriously, you are the worst friend ever." I know he was trying to be honorouble I guess, but dude, wait a week or so. But I don't believe that Abraham deliberate chose it - I think Moloch and co used the moment of weakness and his pretty much dying right there, to get him to be Horseman. The guy was shot, and three seconds later, the Hessians come galloping in, and boom, they are shaving his head and dressing him in Hessian-wear. I never thought of it as 'Hey Abraham, wanna be the Horseman of Death?" "Uh...*thinks* yeah, sure, what the heck..." scenario. To me, it was more of a rash, in the heat of the moment decision, coupled with his anger at being dumped by his fiance, and betrayed by his best friend, and bleeding out from being shot. I think that's why I want to see him redeemed. He may have been an ass in life, but he isn't wasn't the murderous psychopath that Henry is. Just my view of it.

Really like this episode, and this show. Please don't cancel it, please don't cancel it. William Baldwin did a great job as smarmy unethical big boss. Jo having absolutely no time for this guy when questioning him was gold. The opening scene, with that ME who just didn't care, and he says something like "do you want your case closed today, or a crackpot theory" and Jo and Lucas are like "crackpot!" Scary to think this probably happens in real life. Loved the little bonding moments between Henry and Jo. But she must think he is crazy and has a death wish, because he keeps standing on front of cars, about to be killed. I swear, it how she will find out about him - he'll get accidently hit by a car. As for Abe's buddies not knowing him - for some reason I think that maybe the family decided early on to hide Henry's presence, because the lack of aging would be very obvious (well, maybe after a few decades) so it's easier for him to just not physically be around. Instead, Abe's friends would have only met his mother, Abigail. Just my theory. However, I started wondering if Abigail was also not aging, because she looked so young. Now I am forgetting what war Abe was fighting in. Did he say the Vietnam War, right, which started in 1955, but the flashback looked like it took place in the 60's. So that's about 15 or more years, making Abigail around 35, so okay, not that odd. But she looked really young.

Forgot to mention this earlier. Laughed at the fact that in the Mason cell, there were four large industrial lights mounted above Abraham, but the perimeter of the room was filled with glowing candles. Beautiful for filming and ambiance, but the blatant fire hazard made me chuckle. Here, here! 18th century man, meet 21st century woman. Marriage isn't the be all, end all goal of any woman's life. I just loved her response.

The tags...THOSE TAGS.....Oh my gawd...I love Orlando to death, I really do. The shade gives me life!! Sleepy Hollow got a 1.6 in the ratings, 4.47 million viewers. Actually much better than I expected. I expected a drop, to be honest, so that's good to see. Also, this Monday has no Monday NIght Football, which takes in a large audience.

Okay, so watched it last night and have to say, this episode was actually pretty good. I quite enjoyed it. One of the more enjoyable ones for me and I am going to rewatch it. For the record, this one was written by none other than Sleepy fan twitter basher, M. Raven Metzner. This is important because…. The Sleaze Award goes to: M. Raven Metzner, for writing a scene that has Jenny in a short tight miniskirt. I laughed when I saw it, then got really sad, because I know of the story of Metzner talking about Lyndie Greenwood at a comic com, saying how he realized how hot she was and wanted to showcase that, and then we get this scene. *le sigh* At least the Costumer kept her covered up otherwise (thank you, Kristen Burke). And I desperately covet Lyndie Greenwood’s hair. The Last Minute Edit due to #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter Hashtag Award goes to: Nick Hawley, who for some reason suddenly is into Jenny again, and being all cute and hinting that he wants a relationship. Didn’t we see Hawley all moon-eyed over Abbie, and turning down a Jenny who wanted to get some action (again, we see you, Metzner) earlier in this season. The Eternal Hope Award goes to: Abbie Mills, for her desperate hope and desire for any sign from god or heaven, and her wanting a sign so desperately, she doesn’t hesitate a moment when Angel Orion shows up. Loved her asking him about if heaven really exists, what’s god like, etc. Loved the he/she and no gender part. I think Raven watched Kevin Smith’s movie Dogma while writing the script. The Whipped by his Wife Award goes to: Ichabod Crane, for allowing himself to be kicked out of the cabin, being forced to sleep in a tiny bed (does he even fit on it?) in the Archives, yet the moment the wife comes calling, he runs to her side. *sigh* I have a feeling a lot of people are going to be pissed at this, because he essentially left Abbie alone with Orion, an unproven supernatural creature, the moment his ‘beloved’ beckoned. I’m sure the wifey could wait a few more minutes. I think that tiny bed cracked his spine, because he currently does not have one. Which leads to… The Sneaky Passive Aggressive Award goes to: Abbie Mills, for being so sick of the Crane drama, that she didn’t even offer to put Katrina up in her own house, instead letting Ichabod himself be stuck sleeping in the Archives. She didn’t even offer to let Crane stay with her and Jenny, though if this was even hinted on, certain people would lose their minds. Good girl. Speaking of the witch… The Smug Entitlement Award goes to: Katrina Crane, for actually uttering the words “I helped you defeat Moloch, now you will help me.” Seriously? You helped the Witnesses defeat Moloch and stop the end of the world. There are no paybacks for this one. You don’t get an IOU for serving humanity. I just don’t get it – am I supposed to like this person? The smug self-satisfied look on her face after she released Headless and Crane, Abbie and Orion are like – WTF!! – says everything. She totally reminds me of a rich spoiled woman, who stomps their Louboutin shod feet because daddy only bought them a Mercedes for their birthday, not a Porsche. Which leads to … The Me Me Me Award also goes to: Katrina Crane, for telling Ichabod that “Henry killed Moloch for me”. Really, does everything have to be about you? Again, how selfish are you that this is what you think? Maybe, just maybe Henry had another motive. I guess it could look like that to her, but this is the same person that demon-preggied her, and hurt his mother, and she says this. Not everything is about you, Katrina. However, to give her some credit, she did claim that she was the reason Abraham was the way he was. The only moment of clarity for her, in an otherwise selfish smug mentality throughout the show. The Sexiest Man Award goes to: Orion, aka Max Brown, for making me swoon at your beautiful British hotness. Damn. My love for Tom Mison does not go untarnished, but this man is worthy competition. Good job, casting department. The Got Milk Award goes to: Frank Irving! He’s alive. Kinda. Sorta. FRANK! Him stumbling into the store and drinking down a gallon of milk…it totally reminded me of a scene in Gotham, where this guy comes back from the dead and needs to drink tons of milk for some reason. The Wandering Aimless Award goes to: Ichabod Crane. I feel so bad for the guy. He is struggling with the fact that without his mission, he has no place in the world, no purpose at all, and on top of his marriage woes, he's got this on his shoulders. Dude need a vacation. The WTF Award goes to: Katrina Crane, during the very opening scene of the episode. Did anyone else find it really strange? All four of them were lined up, tied to trees. Moloch’s gets killed, and Ichabod, Jenny and Abbie get knocked out. Ichabod wakes up, Abbie is next to him, but where is Katrina? She basically wanders into the scene, this weird look on her face, doesn’t seem to care about the status of her husband, doesn’t run to see if he’s okay, and when Ichabod hugs her, she is all stiff in response. I swear, she wasn’t knocked out, or woken earlier by Henry, and had a little conversation with him, because that whole scene was just weird and her behaviour just shady. The Whiplash Marriage Award goes to: the Cranes. Because last episode, they were all lovey dovey, and this episode, Crane look likes he hates her, is furious with her, and next episode, we’re back to lovey dovey. *sigh* Just end the marriage already. Though I really wished we could have seen the “discussion” they had in Purgatory. The Warden Award goes to: Moloch, who apparently was very active 200 years ago, imprisoning Katrina, Orion and probably many others in Purgatory. What happened 200+ years ago for all of this to happen. The Shipper Bait Award goes to: whoever blocked that scene with Abbie and Ichabod talking in the Mason cell, and they are framed with candles. Beautifully shot scene, very ethereal and romantic, though not intended. The Crazy Theory Award: goes to ME! Because I swear they are still in Purgatory. Orion claims he was freed once Moloch was killed, but that means that there are hundreds if not thousands of other people who were freed also. We saw them wandering around last season, atoning for their sins. So did these people “move on” to heaven or hell or did they just disappear? What happened to them? Overall, I thought this was a good episode, really enjoyed it, so that’s good for once. Lots of questions, and I like that, because I am hoping that this is all deliberate and there is an endgame in play.

Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot that he was trying to kill himself in front of her, to "prove" his claim, hence why she put him in the asylum. Poor guy. Okay, then maybe he was still fearful of "killing" himself then, because to get out, that would be all he would have to do, then disappear. Looking forward to the episode tonight!