Lokiberry

This is the second episode in a row that they've said Jane broke up with Michael because she was in love with Rafael; but that's not the reason. She broke up with him because he tried to deceive her over the state of Raf and Petra marriage. Are they trying to backtrack for some reason? Are they trying to make this more of a real love triangle, with Jane going back and forth between these guys? Have they noticed that BD is really good actor, much better (imho) than JB, and they've altered their plans accordingly? Or are they just going to kill him off in the season finale, and want him portrayed in the best possible light?

Love interest isn't horrible, but it is limiting. It makes female characters subordinate to the males. And, it's a position that can be taken away. Katie Cassidy started out as the "female lead" of Arrow, but with the ascension of Felicity, her role has changed and not for the better. EBR is the effective leading lady of Arrow, no matter what the credits might say, but what real good has that done? Felicity has been used this season to prop up one man and pine for another., She's one of the most popular characters on either show, but where are the stories focusing on her? Twenty years ago, Gillian Anderson was a co-lead on the X-Files. Scully had her own story, her own pov, that was vitally important to the show as a whole. Her position was never dependent on being anybody's potential girlfriend. We've gone backwards.

I actually did not know that there was that kind of reaction to the pairing of Spock/Uhura. I come out of classic Trek fandom, and thought any objections to the pairing would be from K/S shippers or purists who would have a problem with Spock having a love interest at all. I'm disappointed to find out that people reacted that way. I accept that you are right and there are fangirls, and obnoxious media reviewers, who don't want Iris as Barry's love interest because of the color of her skin. What do you want to happen? Specifically, what do you want to happen here? Should there be no criticism of Iris? Should there be no shipping of Barry with anyone else? Should I keep my burgeoning Barry/Cisco feelings to myself? Do you want Iris to be treated differently than all the other female characters in fandom, who have supporters, and haters, and opposing shippers?

Well, Uhura was introduced 50 years ago, so I don't know how much we can go by that reaction. I don't know much about Sleepy Hollow other than Abbie got pushed into the background when the male lead's new love interest starting getting most of the screen time. As for Iris, I did not see, in this forum at least, any particular expressions of hatred or anger when CP was cast. There was fear that she might turn out to be another Laurel (who was hated from day one by a significant portion of the online fandom). The thing is, most people don't hate Iris. She doesn't seem to inspire passionate feelings of any kind in those who aren't shippers or specfically fans of the character. My gut instinct, FWIW (which might not be much), tells me that if the fandom had issues with her race, it would be manifesting itself as more than comparatively mild dislike. That's not to say there aren't foaming at the mouth trolls hating on her in the hinterlands of tumblr and IMDB, but they aren't where the civilized folk meet, and I'm not willing to judge an entire fandom by it's lunatic fringe.

Laurel is absolutely raged against, and Katie Cassidy gets it as well. Even with the moderator intervention, she's blasted every time she appears onscreen. Every time a character dies, there are countless posts wishing it was Laurel instead. Compare that to Iris, and it's not even in the same ballpark. Plus, what negativity there is, isn't spilling over to CP. Some people like Iris, some don't, and some are indifferent. That's it. In the Female Character Hate Olympics, Iris isn't even going to medal.

????? I thought Iris and Linda dressed a lot alike: shorter dresses, really high heels, etc. I thought that was the CW's official wardrobe for female characters. I'm a jeans and sneakers kind of gal myself, so I don't pay much attention to clothes, but I never noticed much difference in the way they dressed. Also, it's not nice to try and slut shame women for how they dress. If it's not your booty, it's not your decision.

I know you're being snarky, but Ray's whole deal this season has been about a woman (Felicity) propping him up. The ironic thing is, he's done better when they've allowed him to interact with the male characters, Cisco and Oliver. So, my counter offer is, pair him with Cisco. They have great chemistry, and Ray's a fuck ton less likely to shove his hand through Cisco's heart then, well, certain other people. eta: because my original post was unintentionally dirty.

Peggy/Angie shippers.

Yes, but who's going to play Glorious Godfrey?

A lot of the Martha hate came from the Doctor/Rose shippers, who didn't seem to quite understand how the show worked,and were enraged over Rose leaving and another character coming in and replacing her. That, of course, doesn't explain how Martha was treated by Russell Davies and his creative team. It's important to note that, on her own, Martha was an awesome companion: smart, brave, funny, engaging, able to inspire others; but when she was with the Doctor, all of that went away and she was a woman pining over a guy who just wasn't into her. That, in turn, lead to crap like her becoming a maid in WWI era Britain, and being subjected to racist and classist treatment because the Doctor wanted to hide from aliens who were hunting him. Human Nature, the book those episodes were based on, did not have the Doctor's companion become a maid. She basically hung around the village and got to know people. That subplot was created specifically for Martha. Even at the end of her run, they had her go off and "save" the world by becoming Martha the Baptist, and walking the earth preaching the Gospel of the Doctor. It was deeply offensive. No companion in the modern era of Who has ever been treated the way Martha was: not Rose, who the Doctor obsessed over; or Donna, his bestest friend ever; or Amy, the girl who's face was seared across his hearts; or Clara, who I admit I don't really get. Martha stands out like a sore thumb from all the rest, and it astonishes me that the BBC ever let that happen.

You mean like Oliver did in S01 of Arrow? Kidding (not really).

Lana, Katrina and Laurel have all been hated with a fiery passion. They have all also been in the way of a ship. Doesn't mean there aren't other good reasons to hate them, but it's impossible not to notice their shipblocking status. Ray Palmer gets lambasted virtually every time he appears on screen, and while the character is not without his issues, it's can't be ignored that he's shipblocking Olicity. Every time Caitlyn gets a scene with Barry that can be construed as shippy, Danielle Panabaker's acting ability comes under fire. Katrina and Laurel have received so much vitriol on these forums that the moderators have had to step in and tell people to dial it back. Hating Laurel is sexism; is hating Katrina also sexism? They've both been called nasty names, and the actresses playing them have both been personally attacked. And, they both blocked a ship. How much is sexism, or racism, and how much is shippers on the warpath against anyone or anything that gets in the way of their ship?

My experience in Smallville fandom showed me two primary reasons why Lana was hated: 1) She was an insufferable Mary Sue 2) She was in the way of several popular ships: Chlark, Clex, and Chlois (which is baffling to me since Clark spent most of the series being a moronic douchebag, but whatever revs your motor, I guess) You may not agree with the above, but they are understandable, non-racially motivated reasons for people to hate Lana. It is unfair to accuse people of racism because they don't like a character or ship that you do. It's just fundamentally unfair.It also has a chilling effect on conversation. People become afraid of being accused of racism, so they don't express their opinions. Shippers of alternate pairings also become wary of having their motives question so they disappear too. And, what good does it do? The real racists are still spewing venom on imdb, and other unmoderated forums, and they don't care what anyone says. Can't we just accept that some people like a character or a ship and other people don't?

Cisco, and Felicity, can interact with almost any character and make it a fun experience for the audience (I say almost because, well, Laurel). I don't think the same can be said for Ray. I don't think it was Ray making those scenes pop, I think it was Cisco. What the spin off needs is another Cisco/Felicity type character, who has chemistry with everyone. None of the already established characters do this, so it's up to Hawkgirl or Rip. If it's going to happen, my money is on Rip, because Arthur Darvill can be very funny.

Cisco makes everything better, but he's not going to the spin off. They're going to have to find another way to make Ray work. Or another character for him to bounce off.

Superfriends

I hope Guggenheim, et al, have seen that trailer for Ant Man and are kicking themselves. They could have beat Marvel to the punch. They could have established their own shrinking super hero months before Marvel had a chance, but no, they had to have a third rate Iron Man ripoff instead. Morons.

I don't recall him dousing Nobu with gasoline, and setting him on fire. Somewhere in the fight the gasoline can got ruptured; then, considerably later, he deflect a weapon thrown by Nobu, that hit the light and caused a spark. I don't recall him rupturing the gas can on purpose, nor did he throw something intentionally at the light. It looked like an accident to me. I also don't think he would have continued to struggle whether to kill or not afterwards if he'd already killed Nobu. It makes no narrative sense for him to do so; nor does it make sense for him to tell the priest that he hadn't (intentionally) killed if he had. I think the writer's intent is to view Nobu's death as a freak accident because everything else falls apart if it wasn't.

I've seen the whole thing (what is sleep?), and I think it's just un-freakin-believable. The fight scenes are off. the. hook. The acting is incredible, especially D'onofrio, holy crap! And, the writing; my god, the writing! Daredevil is to Arrow what Arrow is to Saturday morning cartoons. It's not even in the same league.

That's a blanket statement. I hated Lana because she was the epitome of a Mary Sue: perfectly perfect in every way, everybody loved her, every kryptofreak wanted to kidnap her, everyone had to feel sorry for her tragic backstory (even when they had tragic backstories themselves), everyone had to worry about how their actions affected her over and above how they affected anyone else, etc. I could go on, believe me. Lana was all take and no give. I don't care about Iris because the show has given me no reason to do so, beyond the fact that she's a love object for Barry. If they want me to get invested in her, they have to give me a compelling story. I'm not here for the ships. I want a story. Lana, as a character, had massive issues that were never addressed because the showrunners viewed her as an object on which they could project their own fantasies. Right now, Iris's agency had been intentionally limited by the men in her life. The question is: will these men be show to be in the wrong, or is this the showrunners ideal of how women should be treated? Is Iris, the object that must be protected from the world she lives in, their perfect woman? Or will the story show that the men in her life have made a terrible, insulting mistake for which they will be held accountable?

When most of these comic books were created, all the characters had to be vanilla; no chocolate or rainbow sherbet allowed. The thing is, now we live in a Baskin Robbins society. The choice the tv and film industry is faced with is stick with the original source material, that intentionally excluded all non-vanilla people, or update it to the modern era and embrace the full 32 flavors.

I don't watch Arrow anymore either, so what I want out of this is someone who makes sense bouncing around between the shows, and that's pretty much Felicity. I don't really see how it could be anyone else.

Well, it's possible that he's going to kidnap her and take her into the future in the season finale for reasons. This would give them the opportunity to introduce Rip Hunter's character (who'll be in the Superfriends spin off) when he brings her back next season. Also, maybe, possibly, Iris will learn stuff in the future (like what happened to Barry that caused him to be lost in a crisis), that she has to keep secret, and/or try to prevent. Shoe meet other foot.

OMG!!!!! Hawkgirl, and Rory, AND CAITY?!?!?! GIVE IT TO ME NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

After seeing the week's episode of The Flash, I can see Wentworth MIller bringing the "ratpack' vibe to the spinoff. He's awesome, in an unbelievably over-the-top kind of way. The weak link, to me, continues to be Ray. He's isn't cool, BR doesn't have Victor Garber's acting chops, or Caity's martial arts skills. The only thing he brings is a fifth rate Iron Man suit knock off. He's definitely the weak link here.