Tatum

It really is. And they just keep doubling down on the trashiness of their content instead of considering that maybe it's time to move into a different direction. I wish MTV would track down whoever has the rights to all their old shows- Road Rules, Singled Out, The Blame Game, Say What Karaoke, the early seasons of True Life, Made, Sorority Life, Fraternity Life, Rich Girls, etc and play those instead.

The book talked a little more about this, although I still maintain the deep friendship between Jason and Kameelah really came out of nowhere since he did not seem to like her in the beginning. Sean pestered Kameelah and Syrus nonstop with questions about what it was like to be Black. I think he was well intentioned (he really did want to know what it was like and recognized how ignorant he was), but went about it the wrong way and expected Kameelah to be grateful that he cared to know. It bothered Kameelah; it did not bother Syrus. Syrus and Kameelah were at frequent odds because Kameelah felt like Syrus only dated white women which she found annoying. Sean was also all about the Midwestern niceties and couldn't stand that Genesis would walk by him in the morning and not say hello or acknowledge him in any way (Jason said this was not personal, Genesis often did not greet anyone she came across unless she had something specific she wanted to talk to them about). Jason did not mind; Sean thought it was rude. Both Genesis and Kameelah thought that Montana was exhausting to be around, and was a compulsive liar. She would tell stories that varied a bit each time she told them. Elka was nice to everyone's face, but a shit talker behind everyone's backs. When Kameelah or Montana (depending on whose side she was on at the moment) would confront her about what she said behind their backs, Elka would backpedal or say she didn't remember. Elka also frequently stole, although I don't know if she ever stole from her roommates. I think it was stated that if Elka was at a store, and the line was too long, she would shoplift rather than wait in line. I can't remember where I heard that. Both Genesis and Jason stated that while Kameelah's bluntness could be offputting, she was honest and straightforward and they always knew where they stood with her. Whereas Elka was a flip flopper and Montana was a liar, and Sean just annoyed everyone. Syrus went out a lot. I think Jason summed it up best. Montana, Syrus, and Sean were all fun to go drinking with and just shoot the shit, but he never felt very close to any of them. I don't think anyone in that house was a bad person, but it was an extreme clash of personalities, and everyone assuming the worst possible motivations of the other person in any conflict.

Not just you, I was cringing so hard at the singing. I thought the episode was pretty pat, considering the heavy material. And sadly, a missing woman returning after several months largely unscathed is super rare, so not sure Marissa’s return was really cause for the families of all the other missing women to get their hopes up. I did appreciate the acknowledgment that Shenandoah will never be able to return to her old life. I was half thinking they were going to have McClanahan announce all charges against her were dropped. I highly doubt even Marybeth would get off the hook so easily in real life- but whatever, Hollywood.

I suppose Tyler thinks having Cate oversee the account makes it less risque, but that actually adds a new level of creepy to me. Also, Tyler, I am pretty sure in the season where Farrah returned after Backdoor Teen Mom, you made some sanctimonious comment about how there was not a price in the world you'd place on your dignity. Not that you had much room to talk, even back then, but still.

Now that I think about it, I am confused about two things- why and how did Shannon try and frame Randy Pope for the murders? And why did Randy Pope hide the severed head? First, Shannon makes an anti-hunting poster profile that she manages to register and post (regularly) from Randy's IP address, thus making everyone suspicious and arresting him. Or was he actually the one making those posts? I mean, neither one really makes sense. If she is going down the line killing people, and presumably Randy is on her list, why bother to frame him? If she wanted to kill 6 and pin the murders on the 7th, Randy seems an odd choice for the fall guy. The sheriff would have been a better choice. I suppose her ability to post from Randy's IP address can be explained by it just being a TV show. (Also, I know it's just a show, but I think the odds of being arrested based on the evidence they had against Randy is pretty shaky). But then- why was Randy hiding the head? He likely had alibis for the murders, doesn't know he's being framed yet or even targeted- why go to the trouble to hide it? Going back and reading the recap of episode 5, although I still think he would never in real life be arrested and detained in jail over the internet postings, he probably didn't help his cause when he told an obvious lie about how he was informed about the head in the woods. The whole thing seems rather disorganized, like the writers weren't sure who they were going to have as the real killer until the second half of the show was written and all the red herrings they were throwing out don't really make sense when you consider who the killer turns out to be. I know this is based on a book so maybe I'll read it and see if something got lost in translation.

I think they are going to have to pack a lot into the final episode, and I don't see how Shenandoah is going to escape prison time. Those men absolutely deserved what they got, and Shenandoah likely saved a lot of future victims, but as Joe pointed out, the law won't see it that way. Also, I know Marybeth and Joe were scrambling, but it takes like 3 seconds to forward a voicemail. I'll cut her some slack for not doing it while a shotgun is pointed at her, but like, as soon as they stopped listening to the original message, that should have been top priority. That seemed very out of character for Marybeth to not do. While I agree with Joe that the hammer will be brought down on Shenandoah, even if they can prove what she says, I still thought he was really harsh on a traumatized woman. I liked Missy for about 5 seconds in this episode- I can't talk to Kyle, because he cries like a baby and it's annoying. I suppose he is supposed to be comic relief, but his incompetency at everything is frustrating to watch. I think only when she said he was trying to stop her from killing Pope.

In fairness, he did try and issue a fishing citation earlier this season and that did not end too well for him. Or his horse...

I googled this, and one news source says they are certain that Spoiler tagging just in case, not an actual spoiler though. I do hope they return to the twins- that seems like an odd storyline to just drop. I wish more people watched this show too. I am dying to hear theories on why Shannon/Shenandoah gave herself up. I was really hoping she was trying to get arrested, that there was an ulterior motive, but the way the episode went down made zero sense. Shenandoah had a very brief window when Pickett ran to where Klamath was shot, and she could have killed Pope with no witnesses. Instead, she chooses to brilliantly wait until all three armed members of law enforcement are staring right at her, knowing the crooked sheriff just killed her husband and will be the one to take her into custody, after presumably killing Marissa. Why, Shenandoah? I did love Pickett kissing the deputy's ass while Marybeth rifled through the evidence to get Shenandoah's phone. But I was vaguely annoyed with him as the episode went on. When he said there was never a reason to kill anyone (when Nate defended Shenandoah) but later on, when thinking about what one of the guys (his name escapes me) had done to him and Sheridan, he seemed a lot more open to vigilante justice. It just rubbed me the wrong way, like it was somehow worse because it was him and his daughter vs all the other women. These guys are absolutely monstrous, and while legally vigilante justice is wrong, I can't say I'd be too broken up about it personally. I wonder what the one widow who got really defensive and hostile with Marybeth knew about her husband's activities.

The beginning of episode 8 was hard to watch. I am still holding out hope Marissa is alive, but that would make the sheriff pretty dumb- he couldn't check to make sure she was dead? He references letting birds peck out her eyes so I am hoping that means after the second time he shot her, he just left her for dead somewhere in the woods, but that would be extraordinarily stupid of him. I can't figure out why Shenandoah revealed herself so soon. She still had two guys left to kill, who actually appear to be the worst of the group. Why out herself as the killer, when everyone, including the corrupt sheriff, is right on hand to arrest her? Why not wait until another time to get her target? If she was worried about Klamath being blamed for being the killer, she certainly could clear his name later. In fact, letting them temporarily think they got their man could only help her. I was hoping that she had some master plan, but really, it just seemed a sloppy way to move the story along. Given Klamath's popularity and money, I am little surprised Shenandoah was so vulnerable. I would think a hotshot lawyer would be on the scene immediately, but Joe made it sound like the sheriff had kept her completely isolated from everyone.

Omg, remember when he was talking to his over achieving girlfriend (who I believe was a full time student at Georgia Tech and working two jobs to cover her living expenses) back home, and whining about how he was the only person who "figured out" that you don't need to work 50 hours a week to enjoy your life? Like, he really thought his girlfriend was working 50 hour weeks (factoring in school and studying) because she thought it was the key to enjoying life? Rather than simply a person who's grandma wasn't bankrolling her life and had to work to pay bills and get an education for a better job? Now, I do remember an insider from the show saying his girlfriend had dumped him prior to him being cast on the show and then just happened to reconcile with him after he was cast and asked that she visit him in Paris, and she pretty much dumped him immediately after she got her visit in, so perhaps she wasn't overly sympathetic either, but I can't judge her for breaking up with him in the first place. The show insider said that Ace was a really, really sweet guy but hung out with some jerky friends and took on their personality when he was with them (this was in response to a TWOP poster who had a nasty encounter with Ace and his friends in real life).

The egg thing I am fairly sure is from Runaway Bride. Julia Roberts' character said she prefers her eggs to be prepared the same way as whatever guy she is with prefers. Richard Gere calls her out on this as it's a symptom of a larger problem in her life- glomming onto whatever personality her partner has and adopting it as her own. I think the point Christina was making is that a guy should ask his partner what she likes or thinks first before offering his own opinion. Maybe. I believe Kelly Anne said she technically consented (ie she was conscious) but was seriously impaired, and Adam had been hitting on her nonstop while she was sober and she had rejected him each time, so he knew she was not interested. If not legally rape, seriously shitty, predatory, and disgusting behavior. Of course, with this crew, no one else saw it that way besides Kelly Anne. I haven't watched a recent episode of The Challenge since around 2017, so I hope with the #Metoo explosion and more talks about the general misogyny that plagues our culture, the environment is a little safer for women now, but I can't bear to watch to find out. I didn't realize all this, but that all makes a lot of sense. What a disappointment for participants thinking they are getting a free trip to Paris, only to be stranded in a house most of the time. It does kind of crack me up though, B/M thinking, fuck these kids and their personal growth. I'm going to Paris!

I guess something was posted back in March about him dying, but this was reportedly a hoax. Hopefully this did not come from Kailyn's camp in an effort to get her social media more clicks, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Yes, the writers said that would have been clever, but Pit Girl happened in the same timeline as the eating ceremony where Misty takes off her mask. Since one was the opening scene of the series and the other appears to be a flashback Natalie is having at rehab, I didn't think they had to be related, but then I remembered they juxtapose multiple scenes at the end of the series opener and the writers confirmed they are all taking place at the original timeline.

JFC Kailyn, not everything in your life needs to be shared. I know you are milking every last drop out of your personal life trying to stay relevant, but this is a losing battle you're fighting.

Yes, the article said they arrested him at his place of work. I don't think it said what the workplace was or how long he had been there. He has been employed on and off his entire tenure with MTV.

Yeah I didn’t buy it back when Mac read that letter out loud to Maci and I don’t buy it now. And if it’s true- if you find out on day 1 of your marriage that your husband has an active addiction he’s refusing to get treatment for and hid it from you- that’s grounds for annulment. And Mac was bringing a small child into that marriage. I agree, she’s the victim and I feel sorry for what she’s going through, but I think she’s lying about not knowing. was the jail sentence for the drug charges or assault? He has both on the docket I think.

I think about a year, circa 2011-2012. She came forward and said he was using when they were dating, which Jen said was "mostly" a lie (paraphrasing, the point is she did not deny all of it, only most of it). I believe it was speculated even as far back as when he was dating Maci that Ryan liked his coke, although no one on the show has ever come right out and said so. I believe it was only admitted Ryan had a problem in 2015-2016, which was when his decline became very obvious. As far as Ryan's life expectancy, I don't think it's long, sadly enough. I think an overdose or accident is very likely. I am worried for anyone else who is on the road when Ryan is driving. I also think Ryan is at the stage of addiction where even if jail forces sobriety, he will right be back at it once out.

The bizarre thing is that Ryan has been doing heroin for at least a decade, I think. He was dabbling in some kind of drugs as far back as the Dalis years, but other than the reported incident with the cats, which I am not sure was ever officially confirmed, I don't remember any stories of him being violent, especially to people. He always seemed too lethargic and apathetic. Yet it seems like he has gone from 0 to 60 in the last year, unless he always was this way and no one talked about it, which I guess is possible. ETA: I forgot Maci got a restraining order against him back in 2018 after he threatened her. And again, not trying to make light of the situation, but the other truly bizarre thing? They arrested him at work. He has (had) a job.

Did anyone catch what was written in blue? Starts out, 'Told Me You Where at (think he meant were) Something Something Crazy'. I am terrified for Mac and their kids. Disgusting as that house was, I am glad it was the house that took the brunt of his rage and not Mac or the kids, but it could easily be them next time. I hope they stay out of his reach forever. And not to make light of the situation, but count on Ryan to not even bother to change his spray paint splattered boots before denying the spray painter was him.

Hahaha he met with some agent or producer who was like, do you write your own music? and Jon was like, no, I just want to sing Brooks and Dunn cover songs, I don't want to write my own songs! and acting so offended that the agent was trying to make him be something he was not. The guy could work a crowd at a karaoke bar and that was it.

I don't think Aaron was really that bad at all. I really liked when Jon asked what he would do if a girlfriend got pregnant, and Aaron replied he wouldn't be in the position, which we found out later was because Aaron only engages in oral (likely in receiving only, but maybe he was a giver) which he said was primarily to avoid possible pregnancies. It would be nice if the assholes on Teen Mom who have no interest in fatherhood or their girlfriends would have a similar philosophy. I thought he was pretty supportive of Tami as well and pretty much low drama all around, other than the calendar incident, but he admitted he overreacted at least because he was so embarrassed. I loved when Aaron and Dom were teasing Beth S. about some guy who was coming to visit, and asked if Beth was planning on having sex with him, to which she replied she was not. Dom teasingly asked her if this guy knew it, and if he would still come visit knowing sex was off the table. I didn't watch the whole blanket episode. It was hard to watch, given how apparent Tami's rage and humiliation was. I understand David did not equate what he did to assault, which in a way makes it worse. Women aren't required to ignore their own boundaries just because you don't plan to physically hurt them. To me, it wasn't the act itself, it was the way he did not see what he did as a gross violation. Had he been let off with a warning, I think he would have been more careful going forward, but I don't think he would have understood why he had to be more careful. David said in a book that he spoke with Beth S. and Tami after he left the house and they were all good. He said it though more in a way to suggest he has no ill will towards them, rather than worrying if they have ill will to him. The book was published in 1997 and I am pretty sure at that time David still felt he was the injured party but forgave Tami and Beth. Glen is boring. They had a bunch of better choices than him. I just have such secondhand embarrassment for Jon every time he speaks. He is overall a nice guy, then and in subsequent appearances, but just so young to be so set in his ignorant ways.

Every time I see there is an update to this thread, I expect to read that Ryan has passed away.

Oh MTV. Stay classy. Also, that was one stupid bet to make, MTV.

Fair point about her identity not really being an overly interesting mystery- it's either Mari or a character who wasn't even formally identified in season 1. There were only 10 characters (eta: 10 soccer players) with speaking parts (and names) in S1, and 8 of them have been confirmed as either alive in 2021 or dead before the rituals started. But what I am curious about is that Pit girl is not the girl strung up, throat slit, and what fed the girls during the ritual, correct? They didn't show much, but when the girl was hanging by her ankles, her torso and legs were smooth- where Pit girl was impaled in like 20 different places, notably in the back and upper thighs. So it is possible Pit Girl was murdered for different reasons than a cannibalistic ritual. The two incidents do appear to be related, but it would be pretty lazy if that was supposed to be the same character.

The writers have unequivocally stated that Although one of the writers conceded that would have been an incredible twist. At this point, I'm sort of losing faith in the writers. Multiple actors and writers have stated that no one on any major speculation sites has accurately predicted what is going on, and given ALL the theories, and the fact that most of S1 was fairly straightforward, most simplest explanation is the correct explanation, that seems unlikely. If we don't get to Pit Girl by end of season 2, I will strongly suspect the writers either scrapped their original plan in order to drag out the seasons, or were winging it all along, a la Lost.