Tatum

I thought that was interesting when Shauna said, sorry, I didn't know, and Jackie said, but...you did, and Shauna didn't argue. I took that to mean Jackie never explicitly said what Jeff told her, and presumably Jeff didn't either, but teen Shauna was able to glean it anyways. What I find very strange is how Jackie and Jeff stayed mostly together all through high school without really having much respect for each other. I really liked the nuanced version of Jackie from the previous season and wonder how close Shauna will play it this season as she imagines her interactions with Jackie. I thought the rest of the premier was quite dull, although I did enjoy Misty's exchange with the no tell motel manager, who should have been way more concerned with how Misty got his SSN. I also don't love the cult's appearance or adult Lottie. I am not sure I will keep watching, I wasn't even sure I wanted to start up S2. At this point, I am mildly curious what becomes of Shauna's pregnancy/baby and what happened to Javi, and that's it. I am not a fan of shows that suddenly invest a lot of time in new characters so they have people to kill off, which it appears they are starting to do.

Totally agree. Barb never wanted to raise Jace. She knew she wasn't up for the task and wanted better for him. In the early years, it was her genuine hope that Jenelle would get her shit together and take him back, and sometimes, she appeared to be close. Remember, she was cautioned not to press charges when Jenelle stole from her, because that could hurt Jenelle's chances for getting a good job and being a fit caregiver for Jace. It was always Barb's wish to return custody to Jenelle, provided Jenelle was safe for Jace. I hope he did ask, and that Barb did not kick him out. I can see how for a 13 year old, Jenelle would be seen as preferable to Barb, but I can't imagine any situation EVER that would be bad enough where living with David would be preferable. I 100% mean that. I am terrified for Kaiser, and very disappointed Nathan and his mother evidently dropped all their custody disputes.

What was Barb supposed to do? She begged Jenelle to either get an abortion or put him up for adoption. She kept saying over and over again when Jenelle was leaving Jace to go party because she should "still get to be a kid"- it's not too late, Jenelle, we can still find a nice family to raise Jace. Jenelle said no. Barb could not force Jenelle to get an abortion and she could not unilaterally put him up for adoption. The ONLY thing Barb could have done was leave Jace home alone as a baby and call CPS on Jenelle. That would be a lot of risk and not guaranteed to work- Jenelle could still have gotten him back. Yeah, she's not a great caregiver, but thanks to JENELLE, Jace's options were either shitty or shittier.

I don't think she ever will, although I bet Isaac will never give up on her. I think there is simply a chip missing with her, courtesy of how she was raised. That doesn't mean I think ALL kids raised in an environment like hers will end up acting like her, but in her case, she was shaped by her childhood and is missing the tools to overcome it. ETA: like, for the Javi example, I don't think she does believe she did Javi dirty. I think in her mind, she can twist anything around so it's the other person's fault, and it never would have happened if other person had done XYZ, or hadn't done XYZ.

Agreed. I can't stand Kail and am meh on Chelsea (I think she's an idiot, but she's pretty harmless in general), but Chelsea always had a much easier road than Kail. Yes, both women have had 10+ years of endless resources for improving their mental health and long term financial health, and only Chelsea really capitalized on that, but Kail had most of her formative years spent in extremely dysfunctional situations and it shows. She's a deeply unlikeable woman, but I do wonder what would have happened had she had a Randy, a Sharon, even a Kim in her life when she was young. Even the shitty moms (grandmas to the kids, moms to the teen moms) I think had some genuine love for their kids (like Mama Dawn, April, Barb). I am not sure Susie ever did. Before Isaac, I don't know that anyone ever loved Kail. On the flip side, I don't think even the most ideal situation would have helped Jenelle much.

What a bizarre and sad story. I finally watched the first season of Dirty John on Netflix and Ryan sounds exactly the way Eric Bana sounded when calling his soon to be ex wife to threaten/taunt her.

Ah yes, the girl who turned down* the offer to shoot a destined-to-be-"leaked" private sex tape because she "wouldn't compromise her morals". Naturally she told MTV to pound sand when they begged her and literally threw cash at her feet to be a part of their show. *by all accounts a lie, the offer was pulled, per a credible source

Rewatching the series from the beginning, I get the feeling the Bookouts were way less of enablers than Randalicious was. I would say Maci was the most responsible the first season of the show (mainly focusing on Bentley, not going out much, trying to save money), and she makes multiple references to her parents always being on her ass about something (she says it more nicely than this), and I am thinking, geez Sharon, back off, she's doing her best and she's really not doing badly overall. I think the arrangement was Maci and Bentley could live with them for free, but Maci had to pay for all of Bentley's needs (food and diapers), and Maci was also responsible for Bentley at all times. There was none of this leaving Bentley with her parents night after night so she could go out. Sharon also was capable of giving it to Maci pretty straight whenever Maci would complain to her about something Ryan or school related. I agree she would have worked a job if necessary, but I don't think she would have worked a traditional job one minute longer than necessary- I think she would have wanted to get pregnant and leave the workforce the second she was able to do so.

Agree with you on Kailyn, not 100% sure on Maci. I will give Maci a pass on her first year of community college. Trying to manage going to school and dealing with a baby largely on her own would have taken extreme discipline and was obviously an adjustment. But by season 2, it's abundantly clear she really has no interest in school, and was far more interested in locking down a husband than focusing on classes. She was taking the most basic of college generals (the show zoomed in on her transcripts a couple times) and failing them, largely because she looked for every excuse in the book to skip class. And who can forget Maci, at 19 freakin' years old, asking Kyle to consider having a baby with her. Now in fairness, by season 2, between speaking gigs at schools and TM paycheck, she was probably pulling in $30-$50K a year. Had that ancillary income not been there, would she have been at least remotely invested in obtaining a degree and meaningful employment? I guess we will never know, but Maci has never shown a shred of interest or ambition in anything other than promoting herself as #girlbossing without really doing anything that actually resembles work.

I 100% believe Amber has said that. Maybe some days, in her delusional state, she actually thinks she means it. It actually shocks me this show keeps getting renewed, given the low ratings and generally obnoxious participants.

I just finished watching seasons 1-4 of Teen Mom. I tried to watch Teen Mom 2 but I just couldn't do it. It was either boring or too annoying. It's interesting looking at the moms now vs then. Amber is most consistent in that she was a complete garbage human being at all times, and incredibly lazy. And delusional. I never saw her do or say one nice thing in 4 seasons. And it was always someone else's fault whenever she did something terrible. She had zero qualms about using Leah to hurt Gary either. She just sucks. Farrah had flashes of being a normal human being from time to time, although it would take nothing to set her off. Her parents could ask her to pass the salt at dinner and she'd start screeching. But sometimes she seemed legitimately loving towards Sophia. I liked how Farrah would always talk to her when she was a baby, as though Sophia and Farrah were having a regular conversation. I did snicker though when Farrah says she has to meet with "her" lawyer, who is actually the Chief Deputy in charge of civil litigation (ie domestic battery and custody disputes). I thought he seemed pretty unprofessional at times and also referred to himself as Farrah's lawyer on the phone to someone and I am 99% sure he was trying to get into her pants, which, ew. Cate and Maci are both more interesting in how they changed over the years. For Maci, it was super gradual. I'd argue in the first season of TM, she's really...kind of cool, honestly. At 18, she is way more mature than she appears in any subsequent season. Season 2, she is still mostly normal, with occasional flashes of pettiness towards Ryan, and she's clearly full of shit about school being a priority at that point, but for a 19 year old, totally understandable. But seasons 3 and 4- it's like she's regressing majorly. Her rage at Ryan is pretty clear, and it manifests itself in various spiteful and immature mind games, particularly towards the end of season 4,the last before the start of OG. I think she became less likeable each season, which is really too bad. I thought she was just stunted, but I think that's untrue- she was actually getting less mature each season. Cate on the other hand- I felt SO sorry for her the entire 4 seasons. She was such a nice person and it just seemed like she was always getting shit on, either by her mother, Butch, or sometimes even Tyler. April was really shitty to her on multiple occasions for no reason. But I think during the break between the original show and OG, she really kind of turned into an asshole. If Maci's likeability gradually ebbed away, Cate's pretty much dropped off a cliff during the break. One thing that I forgot- all three of these kids (yes, even Sophia) were freaking adorable during the original run. I just wanted to reach in the screen and hug them.

I am rewatching the series, and it is definitely interesting. Cate and Tyler do not obsess over Carly nearly as much within the first couple years. In fact, there is a scene were C&T are saying they have not been very good about keeping in touch with Brandon and Teresa, and they are kind of talking like they are dropping the ball on Carly. They are also very firm with their respective set of parents that Carly legally belongs to another family now and they only have the goodwill of B&T to rely on, nothing else. I don't believe Dawn misled them in any way. I know Bethany has come under fire for being unethical in general, but there is nothing in 16 and Pregnant nor the early years of TM that suggests Cate and Tyler feel misled or are under any mistaken notion of their rights to Carly. It was only after a few years of TM's popularity that the entitlement grew, and I believe now all participants of this show are engaging in a whole lot of revisionist history that shows them in a much more positive light. C&T are really likeable in the first few seasons of the show. They are lazy, no doubt, but really likeable kids. I just finished the episode where they each drop out of community college because they can't decide whether a degree in humanities or a degree in "social working" will be more beneficial in pursuing their ideal careers. This is laughable because the first two years of any post secondary degree (and they were both talking about eventually getting their masters) is largely generals and in Cate's case, probably a number of uncredited prerequisites to get her up to the college level math class she'd need, even for an AA, so there really was no need to stress over what the appropriate major should be. Nonetheless, they are really kind both to each other and to their families. I think Teen Mom money ruined them.

I am rewatching Season 3 of Teen Mom, thinking Amber might have been more likeable in earlier seasons. She's not. Just finished the episode where CPS gets involved after Amber is filmed hitting Gary. Gary is trying to be supportive, and Amber tells him she hates him because he won't say it's his own fault she hit him, that he "made" her do it by antagonizing her. Gary shuts her down by saying there is nothing that should ever "make" someone hit someone else, and she stomps off in a huff. She is an awful, awful person, and she always has been.

I can't believe they are still hanging on. I would have thought once it dropped below 500,000 they would have decided to hang it up. Even the E! shows would have scoffed at 240,000 viewers. When you consider this show once pulled in 3.5 million viewers, it's even sadder. I suppose though with the emerging streaming choices all regular networks must be feeling the pinch. I don't know what the producers are thinking. They've got to be hovering just above break even at this point.

They are assumable with approval from the lender only- if a lender wouldn't give Leah a loan in the first place it probably won't sign off on releasing Jaylan from his obligations now. Then again, he may not care about the 100 or so points a foreclosure would drop his credit score, especially if he's got a stack of cash in his pocket. Geez, I hope Leah gets an attorney. There are all sorts of tax and liability implications here. She should have flat out refused this "gift". Of course, all this assumes Leah is telling the truth in that article about what happened. She is dumb, but she's also a liar, so this could go either way.

This doesn't make a ton of sense to me. He still has the mortgage correct? He can't just tell the lender that he and the gf broke up so it's her house and her loan now. The lender would have to agree to refinance the loan in her name, and it sounds like no lender would do that, so if Jaylan gifted her the house and kept the mortgage he's even dumber than she is. Unless he's willing to get it go to foreclosure? Also, Leah should report this to the IRS. A five or six figure "gift" is something they might be interested in...

I think the fact that they are contracted workers not employees pretty much absolves the production company, MTV, and Viacom of any tax responsibilities. And it really doesn't behoove MTV to help the women make smart choices anyways. There is zero excuse for this. Not only has Leah been doing this for 10+ years, but just about every other participant has been caught in a similar manner so it's not like she didn't know. I am guessing this relates to possible side income she has made over the years that she did not bother to report, not directly from her Teen Mom 2 earnings.

Well...I am impressed that Victoria made it out of high school without getting knocked up, but that also means she had 4 pregnancies in 6 years instead of 10, which isn't so impressive when she freely admits to not having the means to support any of them. How much longer does she think Leah can foot the bill for 20+ people?

She's in her late 20s I think. Leah is 30, and Victoria is a couple years younger. Considering she was a teen bride, I am actually surprised she has only had 4 pregnancies in ten or so years. And I wouldn't assume she intentionally misspelled Serenity, especially as it appears that was her first kid, and she could have just as easily started an S trend instead of a C trend.

Really! Kendra was a lazy, inconsiderate slob on the show, not to mention showing extremely poor manners. The only thing I can think they mean is that they never showed Kendra really saying anything particularly mean spirited to one of the playmates, and usually went out of her way to befriend them. Bridget's nose seems really out of joint about that early playmate episode when she was saying she wants them to get drunk the night before their shoot so they are hungover- which I don't really get, because I didn't think anyone thought she was being seriously mean.

It probably wasn’t solely out of the goodness of his heart. There would be serious income tax implications from accepting a financial gift of that size.

Omg, Leah, you are not Gwyneth Paltrow, and it was bad enough when she did it. You don't have to ask for privacy. All you need to do is not talk about your private life and none of your fans will have any reason to bother you.

Oh I didn't realize that. It may not be connected, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was. Mandi was so upset when that happened, she was crying, and when she confronted Vinny, his response was to say she was barely wearing a shirt in the first place. In other words, she asked for it, right? If Vinny apologized, they did not show it. Sarah and Wes were the only ones to directly confront Vinny, and Sarah likely only did it because she knew she was going to face the consequences of Vinny's actions as well. Everyone else was nice to Mandi's face, and supportive in their talking heads, but no one wanted to tell Vinny how out of line he was. I think that was probably even more upsetting to Mandi. I think in cases like that, the perpetrator should be immediately removed from the situation. The production company can complete an investigation but Vinny should have been escorted out of the club and not allowed to return until it's clear what happened. He should not be allowed to hang out and continue to insult Mandi.

If I recall, most of the cast was pretty sympathetic to Sarah at least, but no one really seemed that concerned with Mandi, which I thought was just awful. Mark bugged me because he couldn't just pick a side. He didn't want to be too supportive of Vinny, lest people rally around Mandi and he looks like a sex offender apologist, but he didn't want to come down on Vinny either, lest the consensus be that it was just a prank and that Mandi overreacted and really should learn to take a joke, and now he looks like a "hysterical woman" apologist. So, he stuck with the facts (Vinny said it was a joke, the rules say you can't do that) while appearing to be at least somewhat sympathetic to Vinny getting kicked off, at least to his face. When Vinny was saying that it was just a joke, Mark should have said, I'm sorry, what exactly is the funny part of you walking up to a woman and ripping her top open? But then he might have been kicked out of the bro group.

I don't either. I had a crush on him in the the original battle of the sexes, which dissipated over him constantly kissing Puck's ass and egging him on. And while I never watched Mark directly participate in any of the general misogyny that went on, he was often in the room when it happened (since he was generally in the "in crowd" of every show he was on and hung around the biggest offenders) and never did/said anything to stop it. I was completely disgusted with him during the season where Vinny ripped off Mandi's top, and Vinny is whining to Mark about how it's not that big of a deal and he shouldn't be kicked off the show. Mark says something like, well, I didn't see it, so I'm not going to judge, but...- who the fuck cares if you saw it Mark??? Like 10 other witnesses did, and Vinny himself does not dispute it. How about straight out, Vinny it was completely fucked that you did that and you should be ashamed of yourself. I hope you profusely apologized to Mandi and never do anything like that again. But of course, Mark isn't going to stick his neck out for anyone and take a stand on anything (other than something everyone is already in agreement on anyways). That might make him less popular. ETA: Just went back and watched. He said, I didn't see how drastic it was, but nowadays...it's going to be tough. Then in his voice over he says, In Vinny's mind, it was kind of a joke. But the rules are, you can't do things like that, and Vinny might be going home. Yeah, Mark, those pesky rules, not letting frat boys sexually assault women without consequences. Killjoys.