TrueMyth

So it has taken me a while to write out my thoughts on this episode. Overall, I found it meh, despite some really excellent moments between Oliver and his parents. I was dubious when I first heard the "alt reality driven by aliens" spoilers because Arrow is not a scifi show. Also, I love the show Farscape that did the trope 100x better... TWICE. On Farscape, the episode "A Human Reaction" was closest to "Invasion!" because it was supposed to seem real for a while. But it made sense because the aliens were trying to predict and extrapolate from the main character's memories and reactions about how humans would respond to aliens. If the Dominators reason for abducting these people was, as stated, to gather information about Earth's metahumans... then why weren't there any metahumans in the simulation? I know the show wanted us to believe that the aliens were digging for intel and simply distracting Oliver and company with this "happy lie," but they made such a mess of it. Why make it a shared delusion? At least why include Ray and Diggle in the same one? It just served to weaken the verisimilitude of the dream and clue them in quicker... not to mention making the "exit" so obvious that it was basically a shinning tower of DUH once they started questioning things. The multiple PoVs and multiple versions of Felicity were so shabbily put together that it made things move closer to the OTHER Farscape episode, "Won't Get Fooled Again," in which the alien really didn't care if the main character believed the delusion because he was trying to BREAK HIS MIND. The bit with Deathstroke changing out of the bushes in bright daylight was much more in keeping the the crack-level version of reality that might break down our heroes' brains enough to gain access to the metahuman information. I suspect the Arrow writers didn't want to go there because: (1) they felt it might take away the pathos of the previously mentioned emotional beats that DID work, (2) they felt it might be too "out there" for the 100th episode and x-over viewers, or (3) they just didn't think about it because they aren't that creative. Still, in "Won't Get Fooled Again" you get some seriously DARK, and moving stuff happening... like Crichton confronted by his mother dying of cancer or his BFF spurting blood after committing suicide and yelling his blame at Crichton, so the emotional possibilities are there. Basically, I feel they tried to tell a simple modified flashback story (which they've been doing SO WELL WITH, right?) within the frame of a scifi premiss and I don't think they did either story justice beyond Oliver's interaction with his family. Even there it was weak with Thea since her reason for changing her mind was whiplash inducing and Oliver's willingness to leave her to be mind-raped by the aliens was totally out of character. I'm also very confused by what they did with the Laurel and Oliver relationship, except to maybe try to correct where they left them in Laurel's deathbed scene. I wanted a clearer idea about whose brain came up with the idea of Oliver marrying Laurel, because I honestly felt that they MIGHT be heading towards Oliver dreaming of it, when that completely doesn't jive with season 2-4 of Oliver. They could just have well had Oliver about to marry Felicity, with his parents alive, Felicity a bit of a pod person, and Laurel still there as a bridesmaid. As it is, it was a fairly romantic episode for Oliver and Laurel, and Stephen and Katie probably did their best work as far as selling the relationship of the whole series, but Oliver still comes to the "I don't deserve you" realization that he had over her grave last season, and which I don't think was textually supported by most of the series. If they DO want to set up Laurel as Oliver's big love, then maybe we'll have some clarity in the second half of this season (and I'll probable peace-out), but then why kill her off in the first place and talk about how this was a "for keeps" death to bring back the consequences? I think the concept would have worked much better if Oliver was not the first to realize what was going on... OR if the wrongness was presented differently. I also think that it should have only been HIS delusion, though the others could have played versions of themselves (fun for the actors!). This could have had an added benefit in the third act when he does break free and maybe has to cross into everyone's dream world to yank them out. They could have then kept the scene with Thea not wanting to leave. Diggle could have been the Arrow with both Lyla and Felicity helping him. Ray could have been some form of CEO/hero/savior with ANNA as his bride. Sara could have been running a dojo with Nyssa and meeting Laurel for brunch or something. There could have been some fun in Oliver meeting a version of himself in some of these realities that could play to the theme of Legacy because what is a legacy after all, but how others remember you?

My mistake. I see "series" and assume TV.

I assumed the "spring in her step" was more from all the coffee they seemed to drink together. Seriously though, it is so odd to me that the writers gave Felicity this boyfriend but never told us how they met, or when they started dating, or what he thought she did with her days. We know LESS about Felicity's private life in season 5A than we have at practically any other time in the series. It could not be clearer to me that Malone's main function was as the plot device to be killed, but even their they failed to flesh him out as a character so that the audience could feel the pain of Felicity and/or Oliver at his death. It honestly baffles me, since that is pretty much storytelling 101. Tina's first episode is 5x11, right? Do we know what episodes she's in from there out? Is Rory still in episodes since he wasn't on the road trip? I will be very sad if they write off Rory but keep Wild Dingo around.

He was born in May of 1985, so 31?

What a horrible picture to use. With the arrow out of frame it looks like she may be having a very different reaction to DD.

I'm glad you're enjoying it so much, @wonderwall! I have three of five chapters of part two written, but the teaching semester has kept me very busy. I do plan to finish it up, hopefully before the new year. Good news/Bad news of next year is that I'm expecting a baby in January and I'm taking Spring semester off for maternity. I hope to find more time to write in 2017, but the bad news part is babies can be a little unpredictable as far as how good they are at napping and letting mommy write (my son was not the best napper). :)

I think Arrow suffers because the writers conceive of it as a one lead show, not an ensemble. Several people like to bring up "it's Oliver's story" as a defense against why this or that other character doesn't get more focus. However, I think you are completely correct that they need to write more scenes with different characters interacting. The Bee episode was really the only one that has done this in recent seasons, putting Lance into a lair-support role for the first time and pairing him with Curtis as well as Thea having major scenes with Donna and Felicity. This season, I'd really have liked to see the newbies interacting with different characters. I think Evelyn and Felicity could have been interesting. Evelyn has made cracks about dating that could have developed into a window into Felicity's romantic headspace and fleshed out exactly why a 17 year old who wants to talk about boys is staying up all night fighting street thugs. I'd like to see Curtis talk to Thea about her choice not to suit up anymore. He's made a BIG choice to go out in the field; she obviously knows the bad that it can lead to, meanwhile Curtis is sympathetic enough to try to understand Thea's point of view. Oliver has had some one on one time with pretty much all the newbs (because he's the LEAD), but I'd love more scenes with him and Rory, because there was some real magic for me in their rooftop scene talking about honoring their fathers and with Rory growing closer to Felicity but still probably having some qualms about her, it would give us a new slant PoV on Oliver's feelings for Felicity. I'm really shocked that we haven't had a scene between Mayo and Lance. Lance has pretty much spent ALL his time with only Oliver or Thea. I'd call it mayoral island, but it doesn't feel as isolating for Thea and Oliver because they do still interact with others. Flash had less characters to juggle at most times, so I think it suffers less from its "lead driven" narrative than Arrow. It's obvious that LoT has made a decided effort to mix team members even in season one, but I think they are doing an especially nice job this season because the storylines aren't totally separate most of the time. Even though you have groups of two or three spending the majority of an episode together, they do cross paths with each other, or sometimes jumble again in mid-episode, and it feels organic and allows several facets of each character to shine during every episode.

She's always been pretty slight. I actually see more muscle definition on her now than in season 1 (I think it comes from doing more training once she got to be Speedy). While I do think Willa does a great job with her, and I love her scenes with Oliver, I really hate where they've gone with her character. Invasion! saw her basically brainwashed again, and she was okay with it. I mean, deciding to stay in the dream world was a sort of agency, but I think she'd be violently opposed to being controlled in anyway after what Malcolm did to her. And after what Alex did to her at the end of season 4. The other tentpole of her character has been her distaste at being lied to... and that keeled right over when the plot required it during the BMD of season 4. It really is a shame.

So, I can be generous and say that this episode suffered because of all the cross-filming for the crossover episodes. I HOPE that is the reason that Felicity's screen time was down. But realistically, the direction on this episode SUCKED. In the very first scene, Felicity comes in with an interrupt of Oliver and Rory's conversation, but instead of being at a nearby workstation or entering from the shadows like Oliver and Malcolm like to do, she enters from the elevator AFTER the line she is "interrupting." How the heck did she hear what they were talking about? Or does she just know Oliver so well that she knows he was probably brooding? It was almost as bad as when Vigilante said to call your boss and Oliver... comes out of a closet and clomps across the floor? Like, they actually actually put in sound of him step, step, stepping before he hops up on the counter. It was so undramatic and anti-climatic! Others have already commented on the poor fight choreography. I noticed it especially when Vigilante "knocked out" Curtis. I really don't think he connected at all. The character beats also felt odd. I agree that Lyla, Oliver, or Felicity really should have thought to bring the birthday party to Diggle, but even if we needs must give this beat to Wild Dog... why didn't he invite anyone else? This would have been a nice moment for the Arrow family. It would have showed him reaching out to everyone, maybe even earned a nod from Oliver. Did anyone think Felicity was off in this episode? She was tense throughout. Emily has never been off like this in my opinion. Even though I admit that she's not the best crier in some season three scenes, I could understand what she was going for. It felt like a scene was cut early on that set her on this trajectory. The missing reaction (even in a wide shot) of Oliver going out for drinks was LAME. I don't care too much about the reporter and Oliver. I don't necessarily think that he's buying her moves. He honestly didn't seem that interested in the first scene. But what was up with that "bar" set? It was so small! It was so obviously some re-dressed SOMETHING. And I rarely recognize things like that. Basically this episode was a big old SIGH.

Yes, because he was mopey because they had to destroy his suit.

I haven't watched last night's LoT yet, but is there any indication about how/when/if Ray gets his suit back? Or did they just have him suit up for the EW shoot because he's one of the most recognizable face to rep LoT?

Yeah, this line was odd to me as well. I'm not sure what chord they are trying to strike with Curtis and Rory. They've had a couple beats with Curtis being flustered by Rory and seeming to almost come on to him, but they've mentioned Paul, so it's not like the writers have forgotten that Curtis is married. Of course, they also textually referenced Rory as straight a few episodes ago. So the "strong and a little sweet" line was just ODD! Especially as Curtis hasn't been shown to be very physically commanding, and where he is, his agility outshines his strength. Over all I liked this episode fine. I was feeling very down before watching, and it gave me an escape from reality right when I needed it. I don't think Ritter is doing well with Detective Mayo Malone. I know he's not given the best stuff to work with, but some of his choices are downright odd, like when Felicity is cozying up to him prior to taking the evidence and he delivers his lines to her with his back fully turned, and over his shoulder, and not even looking at her. It almost read like he was embarrassed because he likes some other woman at work or something. He also seems to be a horrible cop if he's really okay with handwaving Felicity's involvement with the Arrow, particularly so quickly. It all makes him seem suspicious, but I truly hope that he is NOT Prometheus, because I think he's a worse actor than Mark Noble. Really not sure what they are trying to do with Quentin. Maybe if the SCPD had burst through the door right at the end on some sort of tip to arrest him, but as it is... Lance can't be Promethus, especially during blackouts. He just doesn't have the skill set. I somewhat understand the newbies grumbling about being left out of planning, and I think they SHOULD have been told about the serial killer earlier, but they have no leg to stand on regarding their surprise that Oliver was the Hood, too, and killed people back then. He is killing people NOW. Has been, all summer. That was part of what the pilot set up. If they were okay with joining him then, their reaction should have come off as "I need time to process this" at the MOST. I've been waiting to get a little more time with Evelyn for a while. I wish she had struck up a better report with Felicity, because we need more female to female conversations on the show. Ultimately though, I was disappointed by her scenes. I still know very little about who she is outside of the Arrow cave. The line about her blaming Oliver for her parents and having a hard time joining him was off, too... because they never actually explained WHY or HOW she got over it. Why did she jump at the chance to work with him again? That's a pretty central motivation for her character and her first major storyline should have fleshed it out if it was going to bring it up. I liked the OTA stuff at the beginning. I was really happy to discover that Oliver had brought Diggle into the field. That said, wow, Prometheus is a DRAMA KING! Some comments/reviews I've seen were impressed that he came off as badass in this episode, but I can't help but laugh at most of his beats. The torch lights popping on and leading to the cell phone were so silly (I mean, did he actually run gas lines through this warehouse and work out the timing and everything?), not to mention the SO IT BEGINS in fire. If I had some context for the character outside of this, I would probably like the drama of it, but we know so little about this nemesis, and it makes me laugh in a way that I don't think the creators hoped to inspire.

I'm so confused when people talk about E2 Oliver. The Oliver of Flash's Earth 2 (the steampunky world where Harrison Wells is the father to Jessie Quick) is DEAD. He died on the Gambit and his father likely became the Arrow. I assume people just use "Earth 2" to refer to any alternate world Oliver, but it's still confusing.

A few more, and Thea will be able to give Barry Allen competition over father figures.

Whoops, quoting myself from the spoilers only thread. This is what happens when I try to post from mobile first thing in the morning. I wasn't counting flashback "jobs," and I don't see "jobs" as something that you don't draw a salary from. These two distinctions eliminate everything except the CEO job (and maybe the nightclub if we think Oliver knew enough about budgeting to pay himself). When exactly did he walk away from ARGUS in season three flashbacks? My memory of those yellow-tinted times is super fuzzy, and I have no drive to go back and rewatch, but he worked for them under duress, so I don't see stoping (either time) as "blowing off." Didn't he only "stop" when he realized that the general was dirty and about to kill many thousands? I agree, the night club job should be in there under the dynamic that Wendy described, but the campaign seemed different to me. I don't remember him missing speeches or events due to his GA activities. I don't see quitting due to blackmail as "blowing off" either. The dynamic just seemed very different to seasons one and two to me.

Agreed @dtissagirl! His hair is even more "haircut" than Haircut. I think he's actually trying to step into Ray's shoes so that Ray can be more humble and relatable. That's who he reminded me of with his hardon for being a hero. Too bad, because I was actually enjoying the super-competent historian side of him. It is so much better that the stupid smart science that Ray and Martin spout, since so much of that is hand wavy. With Curtis, they are doing such a good job making his fighting growth organic and slow that I just wonder why he is in the field in the first place. He should have started working on his T-spheres after the first time. Maybe that knife to the back was coated with inspiration.

I didn't like this one as much as the first three episodes. Overall, I just find too many holes in the plot when I look too closely at the story, which is frustrating since I feel they sacrificed characterization for plot quite a bit. I like Ragman, and I'm happy with how Felicity's arc is moving, more or less. I would have loved some additional conversation between her and Oliver regarding Havenrock, particularly something that hinted at prior conversations. Is Rory a sculptor as his main profession? The AfterBuzzTV crew seemed to think that it was his job, not only a hobby. In which case, wow, he's getting more character work than even Felicity or Curtis at this point! I agree that they should just have the two of them open a small consulting firm in Oliver's old campaign offices. It would reuse the set in a credible way (since Felicity bought/rented the space), provide cover for the team's coming and goings, and give each of them something to tell their S.O.s regarding where they are working. I can't believe they had Oliver walk through the doors of the office in his GA suit, with the hood down. Where is the stealth? I've assumed there is at least one other entrance to the lair since they can bring motorcycles in and out... shouldn't he be using THAT when he's in full get-up? I liked the fight between Oliver and Felicity because I was behind both of their arguments. However, it is pretty frustrating that Felicity was given SECONDS to process the break-out plan before being asked to fish or cut bait with them. I'm pretty sure, if she'd been given the day's notice that Oliver should have given her, that Felicity could have come up with a better way to get Diggle out or to talk some sense into him. It was a little frustrating to have Diggle say that he knew Felicity wouldn't be part of the mission because he "knows her" when (1) I don't think such plans are out of character AT ALL (drugging Oliver, blowing up Applied Sciences, etc.) and (2) it implies that Diggle knows Felicity better than Oliver does and I just don't buy that at all. They knew that Evelyn was going to be Artemis since the start of the season, right? WHY haven't they shown her training with a bow and arrow before now? It is NOT an easy weapon and they have a ready made trainer in Oliver. I can hand-wave her taking a prepared snipper shot with Wild Dog as a failsafe after three weeks of training with a bow... But this is literally the first time she's had one and it's in the field? Come on, Arrow, where is my water slapping? At first I thought the fact that Mayo didn't make Chase's cut of "trustworthy" cops was a second inditement of his character (after being passed over for Oliver's special force earlier), but then I realized that they seemed to be implying that Chase was prepared to begin torturing Church's guy right their in front of some of these "good" cops, so I think Chase's definition of quality is a bit skewed. This is a pity, since I like having reasons to hate on Mayo.

So, I seriously doubt that it will happen because of real world realities like Colin Donnell's other jobs, but I would so much LOVE if Tommy Merlyn was Prometheus. I'm totally fine if he stays in the shadows and has a stunt actor playing him for most of the season, but it would make for such an awesome narrative if they could just get Colin back for, say, a five episode arc at the end. Also, I think I'd like to see him kill himself at the end of the season to make a change from the big "Oliver must commit to killing the big bad" moments that are such a predictable part of the season endings (although I do think it would bring a new level to that trope if he had to commit to killing Tommy). This reveal would also strengthen the narrative in other places: * Malcolm Merlyn's resistance to using the Lazarus Pit for Thea - if he had somehow snuck in or used his LoA contacts to resurrect Tommy and Tommy came back WRONG... so wrong with only crazy Daddy Merlyn to try to nurse him (we know that would NOT be a help), then I could see him not wanting to pit Thea. If a rogue element of the LoA was helping, it would also explain Prometheus's skill with a bow and arrow. * The fact that he shows up after Laurel dies fighting with the Green Arrow. It would be the perfect final trigger for a Lazarus-screwed Tommy's revenge. Obviously Oliver is not responsible for Laurel's death any more than Felicity is responsible for Havenrock, but there are some nice parallels there, too. I know this is not likely to happen, but then again I was pretty darn certain at this time last year that Laurel would NOT be in the grave. So I'm going to dream just a little bit for now. Maybe some kind soul will write an awesome spec fic along these lines (It's not far off some existing fic).

But if we follow Oliver's penis, I think we will end up back at Felicity.

I know everyone is slating Adrian Chase, DA as Prometheus, and yeah he is totally telegraphed for that position. I really hope that it's not the case, because, while I found him passable, he just didn't match the casting call for me. He didn't feel comfortable in his skin, and he didn't have much spark on the screen (except briefly with Thea, maybe). Now I could say all this with Detective Mayo, too, and I know it starts to retread Cooper a little bit, but I think I'd rather have Mayo be Prometheus. It would explain how he knew what Prometheus said to Church. I also like the idea that he's been researching the Green Arrow/Arrow/Hood for so long that he is able to see past the cunning hood disguise and realize, much like the historian from the LoT premier, that Oliver IS the Green Arrow. Maybe that's why we didn't see how he met and started dating Felicity. Maybe we'll see some of that in flashbacks and find out that he targeted her to get a feel for Oliver's time table and such. I know he was massaging Felicity around the same time as Prometheus killed the cop, but they ask us to buy some pretty quick location/costume transitions on this show, so I don't think that is an impediment. It also gives me reason to hope that there were no sexy times in the loft that night.

This bugged me so much in the first episode. I think the only real chance that Oliver had to kill Damien was after they smashed the idol, and everyone opted to turn in him to prison instead. Unless Oliver was stalking about killing him in court or something crazy like that, I don't see that as "several chances." I'm okay handwaving Oliver testing out Ragman instead of killing Church. On the one hand, he's been convinced that he needs a team to take down Church, but on the other, Ragman isn't coming in as some half-baked baby vigilante that Oliver will need to train. In fact, if Oliver was WRONG about Ragman, he needs to know because he would have another magically powered villain running around the city. As a strategic play, I think it makes sense. However, if Oliver passes on killing Church again, while still dropping grunts like it's season one, then I'm going to have a problem with it.

Did they tell us how Felicity was affected by Flashpoint? Any other effects on Arrow?

I personally read your statement as saying it's not THE camp of LoT that stopped you from connecting with it, but I think the reason for the confusion is clear. :) For me, I like darker shows (camp or no, as Evil Dead is AWESOME), so my enjoyment of the shows goes Arrow > LoT > Flash > Supergirl, though I fully admit that from a tone and quality level both Supergirl and Flash are better than LoT. I do have some hope for the LoT season though. If LoT does tank, I hope we get Sara back on Arrow.

He had an imperfect understanding of what his father was asking him to do at the beginning. He thought he was supposed to just take down the people on the list. Season one's big revelation was that the list was just a catalogue of those who contributed to Malcolm's Undertaking, and therefore his father was asking him to stop THAT. At least that's how I read it. Now, if season five want's to bring us full circle to the fact that Malcolm Merlyn is a horrible human being and should be top of Oliver's list now that he's killing again? I'll co-sign that!

Yeah. I'm willing to accept that A big part of my interest in Poldark is the Dezmelza romance.