TrueMyth

I hope they address finances at some point. Felicity, Diggle, and Curtis are all going over a year without employment. I can hand wave Felicity's big settlement from Palmer Inc, but she will eventually need to work and it is even more awkward if she is bankrolling the whole Arrow operations. They may share some ARGUS tech but would want to stay independent if possible. The same with STAR Labs. There could be some big problems if any of Oliver's city paycheck is making its way into the Arrow budget. I'd love to know the show runners' thoughts, but they'll just accuse us of being pedantic to wonder about triviality like money.

Dinah was totally off base to advise Lance to keep shooting BS a secret. I fully blame that choice with Lance's current confused guilt over "Laurel" when he had it all worked out last season. She's also off base with Diggle, since I assume she has the most experience recognizing PTSD of the group (Oliver doesn't have training in unit cohesion or psychology) and yet she seemed more angry that he didn't have her back than concerned about his mental state. I guess this goes to show that she never went undercover with a gang of therapists.

I made a thing.

I haven't quite caught up with the thread, so forgive any retread of theory or fact, but grades are due next week and my fandom time is unfairly curtailed! I can't say how much of it is my severely lowered expectations, but I actually rather enjoyed this episode. Thanks for promoting things I don't care about, CW, I guess. For the first time with a BamBam episode, I found myself thinking "oh, that's kind of pretty" during the interrogation and explosion aftermath scenes. I also liked most of the first action sequence. I could actually see what was going on and Oliver got to be pretty badass. I guess I was a bit confused about where exactly he came from. I think it was supposed to look like a bigger ship with Oliver down below near the water, but the establishing shot (good for later action) made it look like he was shooting out of the water. Where was his SCUBA and flippers? Probably less cool. Wilddog's new outfit is a big improvement in looks (although, maybe some armor next time, Cisco?). Still can't stand him as a character. He is seriously still calling Felicity "blondie," and I think they want me to see it as endearing. Even his hug with Oliver at the hospital leaves me cold: (1) Sometimes the hardass, "I can check myself out against medical advice" pisses me off. I could have bought it if he said something about the cost of medical bills, because that serves his niche of lower class hero, but the "tough" thing is annoying unless I already love the character (like Oliver) or they've been through enough already that a punctured lung really is a small thing (hello, Oliver and Sara). (2) I'm still pissed about his back story. I have very little sympathy for how he lost custody of his daughter and even less for the fact that he is not advocating for himself. He obviously does not believe that he is worthy of her and that kind of makes him NOT in my book. The signaled return of Zoe totally makes me think we'll have a "home alone" style episode with William and Zoe in the Arrow lair or something. I am the opposite of excited at that prospect. William. Ugh. Please tell me the boy is in counseling? Please? I hope they give us some actual bonding scenes soon, if he's sticking around. I need a reason to care about him besides Oliver's own feels. I'm actually surprised that the "bad man" scene was EXACTLY what it looked like. It's so off-tone for an eleven year-old (especially one who looks 13). When Oliver didn't look concerned about Faust's missile and then talked about his "friend," I was sure he meant Felicity. Seasons 1-4 he would have meant Felicity. WTH, Curtis. I don't get why Felicity wasn't on running comms at any point this episode. Was the burger run really important? I appreciate the update on Donna, but her entrance was so down-played compared to the others. All the mask got cool drama poses or action entrances and Felicity waltzes into frame half-covered with bags of grease like she's in a fast food commercial? It didn't read like an ulterior motive to me, no vast secret like Helix. I can see, as @quarks notes, that the scene could have been shot with more drama to reveal Felicity's status, post-island. But then, I was worried that they would drag out the reveal and not give me any Olicity scenes until the last 15 minutes, so I was happy with what we got. I'm so confused about what happened on the island. Thea is assumed dead, but they don't check her pulse and let her lie on the cold ground for several minutes (apparently bleeding more) before whatever happens that makes them realize that she's unconscious? Samantha's death was just... badly staged and badly acted. If she had to stagger into frame, she should have been obviously bleeding out or dragging a leg or something. Really? She should have been found crushed under boulders so we could know that she was dead. Oliver could have started shifting them, only to have Slade tell him that the pressure was the only thing keeping her alive (slowing blood loss) and that Samantha was already dead. How did everyone survive? Slade says they will never reach the plane ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ISLAND, Samantha runs off, Thea a few seconds after, then Diggle stops Felicity from the same and, in less than a minute, the bombs are exploding. That should mean that NO ONE got to the plane. And yet Lance, Rene, and Dinah are apparently physically unscathed? I must assume that the island explosion is much like Prometheus himself, full of drama and psychological significance, but ultimately amounting to nothing. It sounds like I didn't like the episode much, but I really did enjoy OLIVER this episode. It's been a while since I could say that, so that probably explains my over all good mood.

Do I have to play the video to see the list or is it showing up strange on my phone? What is number 2?

It's been a while, but weren't these aliens supposed to be monitoring humans for a while? I seem to remember their introduction on the Flash being a relatively creepy intro of them being here since the 50s. Since metal powers are their thing, that seem like more than enough time to get a basic handle on human brains. Bah! Honestly, it just isn't smart writing. I mean, if they wanted the "never got on the boat" speculation as a nod to the pilot, they could have had Oliver drop a broody line to someone to that effect... Something to make clear that his mind was on that track... Like sure, aliens would still come, but Laurel wouldn't have died, Thea would be less screwed up, what if... I could even stretch to see him thinking he has somehow held back Felicity, like if not for their night time activities (the other ones) she'd be putting her energies into taking over the techno-business world. Just a couple of broody lines to Barry or something at the end of the Flash episode and I could have made much better sense of that wacky world.

So, if I were writing/directing and wanted to convey Smoak Tech as Oliver's brain cutting in, I'd make it glitchy in some way... Like the building isn't there in one shot, the Green Arrow flies by and then the next shot shows the tower behind him, or better yet, has it faze into existence just before he turns and notices it. That would be a clear way to show that it was Oliver overwriting the alien dream. That said, why would Oliver manifest Felicity in that way? As far as we know, she hasn't talked about starting her own company at that point. Yeah, my rant got away from me... I think I was trying to say that, as an Olicity fan, if I was an alien trying to distract Oliver's brain while gathering data on metas, I would stick him in Ivy Town with a Stepford Felcity who just wants to talk about slow cookers and get sweaty with him. That would hold him for a while and it is STRANGE that that isn't what happened. As is, the alien verse Oliver had no connection to any of the Felicitys. He felt flashes when he meets her in the lair and something when he sees the tower, but that is because they are incongruous to the fake world the aliens made. Basically, he shouldn't react to her, but he does on a limbic level, which helps him break free. And that is romantic, except they don't fully frame it that way in the way that it is shot AND it makes no sense that the aliens would set their trap that way.

I'm a huge Olicity fan and have passing fair comprehension skills and I still have no idea what they were trying to say about Oliver's mental state in 5x08. The Olicity lines from Lauriver's mouth are so very odd. I'd chalk them up to coincident, lazy "love interest" writing except (1) so many lines! How did they miss it? and (2) Stephen Mr.-It-Was-Red Amell would have said something if it wasn't explained to him as intentional. But what it means that they did it is obtuse. Now, I do lean to an ultimate pro-Olicity interpretation under a veil of breadcrumbs for those who want to see the classic comic pairing. I think the strongest argument is that Smoak Tech was the gateway home. However, even this is murky as fuck because of the jumbled minds the dream world was based on. Because the aliens are too cheap to construct individual realities for each abductee, we get three seemingly distinct Felicity Smoaks: 1) Ray's fiancée, 2) Green Arrow Diggle's partner, and 3) Faceless CEO of Smoak Tech (ST). None of these personas have surface level emotional value for Oliver, except for ST being a beacon of discordant hope (which makes no sense because why would the aliens make such a symbolic and glaring exit point)? Ugh. I'm trying to clarify my issues with reading OTP vibes into the episode for either couple, but it is so hard not to be distracted or tangled by all the stupid choices. Basically, it makes no sense to have ST there within the narrative. It is only on the meta-narrative level -- where Felicity represents salvation, reality, perseverance -- that it makes sense, and the fact that Oliver is the first to see it and recognize it for what it was is romantic in my mind. That said, it would have worked so much better if: 1) Felicity in the real world was broadcasting a signal from the start that somehow disrupted the alien projection...thus giving a narrative reason for the ST building, 2) every mind had their OWN dream world and Oliver's was the first to break because he knew "something is missing," 3) He then breaks into everyone else's dream to save them, and some of them pull him in different ways, the program trying to fight him so that, 4) we still get the awesome Queen family scenes, but 5) others tell him they can leave Thea and take her body when they are out therefore making his willingness to abandon her there a little more okay, 6) Laurel's last ditch attempt to pull him back becomes a twisted version of Sara and Oliver's Laurel but Oliver still gets to voice his guilt over her and 7) Oliver busts in on Ray with Ray!Felicity who then had a total s*** flipping between both Ray and Oliver in a way that is clear that Oliver is moved by her but that they both have very different ideas of who she is, and finally 8) could still have had the big fight that some fans wanted, but set it in the ST lobby. I'm such a fan of this type of story done well. Farscape did multiple excellent versions. The fact that the bungling happened for the 100th is so, so frustrating.

Looks a little too much like he is farting that gassy cloud. I don't hate it though.

I often plot fanfic while I fall asleep. Right now it is one of my few times to myself. Does anyone have any spec fic recommendations for Olicity weddings post S5? I'd particularly love to read one with them getting married by a ship's captain while on a slow rescue boat to China post island, one that frames that boat trip as a bookend to the start of all the drama for Oliver ten years earlier. I wish that I had time to write it, but dream writing is the best I can manage right now (I'm supposed to be asleep right now for that matter.)

Funny you should ask: when I had these kids as freshmen, one of their cohort used end of season 1 Barry for his hero's journey analysis and waxed poetic about how he saved the city from the vortex. I slapped down his analysis, given that Barry caused the vortex. He was chagrined and surprised I watched. He didn't watch Arrow then, but gave it a try. Told me a few months later that he was enjoying it. He's not in this current section though.

Her reflection included the idea that she might write fanfic about our reading for a written task, which would actual fit the course assignments, too (okay, technically a short vignette as some kind of pastiche, but basically fan fic with a deliberate style), so she may write me something, too.

Lol... One of my students used fanfiction as a text type for analysis for her weekly reading log. What did she learn? "Fanfiction can make dreams come true, meaning to say if there are two people in this world that you think should be together, then you can just read a fanfic about them." My life is so strange, you guys.

I think I know what you mean. I've noticed a tendency to call out Mavi as a bit of a "diva." It has certainly colored my perception of the girl and I literally only know her from his tweets and her personality is far from set. Parental comments like this, if made in the presence of the child can have lasting affect on self-perception... But we don't know much about how he really talks around her. I'd think his absence while filming and how they frame that would be a much bigger thing, especially if the show runs much longer.

It would crack me up if they were married by a ships capital in the South China Sea. Oliver could finally have a good boat memory! As long as we can see it in flashbacks at some point!

It will be pretty awkward down the line if Oliver and Felicity get married or have kids and they just say "Donna couldn't make the flight" or worse, nothing.

I can't bring myself to write William. When plotting Love Thieves, I was faced with the fact that the Michael (Oliver) character in both "Nikita" and "La Femme Nikita" is revealed to have a secret young son. The parallels are RIGHT THERE! And I actually think the secret son plots were decently done. But I can't do it. No William or Samantha in my fics, thanks.

It's cute, but the noun verb agreement makes me cringe. I know fandom conventions are a bit up in the air, but I always see ship names as collective singular nouns. Olicity is perfect. Oliver Queen and Felicity Smoak are a perfect couple. /personal grammar rant

I like receiving feedback like that because it shows engagement in the story. There are different shades of course. "Lol, I hope Oliver doesn't screw this up" vs " I hope you're not bringing Laurel into this." It it can influence plot. For example, in Love Thieves: I also do it as a reader and I HOPE no one has been offended.

As a fan, I hate that we don't see more new media content with SA or EBR, but both are on record as avoiding photo shoots for different reasons. SA doesn't like them; EBR avoids negative backlash. Of course that doesn't stop them from making some kind of original graphic like it is their job or something...

Emerson is so far off the body type of Vigilante that I kind of want him to be that just because.

I was driving home, thinking about Arrow (as one does), and I suddenly started ranting to myself all over again about how it has treated torture and brainwashing. Prometheus did some horrible things to Oliver and the end is that he doubts himself... but the narrative wants to be edgy bringing up all the serial killer or vigilante thing, so it doesn't underscore if we are really supposed to believe what Oliver believes, that he likes killing, that he is a serial killer. There are some serious missed opportunities with Oliver and his PTSD. For example, I would have loved to see the therapist he confronted a while ago actually help him work through some issues. It's been done well on other shows. But that would give us too much insight and empathy with Oliver, so we'd never buy Prometheus's manipulation (not that I ever did, but I think the writers did want doubt in the viewers mind towards the end of season five). And yet he was brainwashed by the LoA, who've apparently been doing this for centuries, and he not only manages to keep his head, but also to trick them. I suppose the difference is in Oliver's preparation. Malcolm probably helped him counteract drugs and be ready for most of the tortures. Bah, it's late now and I should be sleeping instead of rage typing on the internet, but I needed to vent. I think the show did a better job in early seasons showing that torture never really works. People either die before giving up or they break and will tell you anything to make it stop. No truth ever really comes from torture unless you are looking for discrete bits of information, and even then it is unreliable.

Thanks for the details on the soulmate fic @Morrigan2575. Ugh. It sounds like a rather odd world. I'm used to fics where the magic or specialness is either what bestows power (e.g. vampire stories) or something to hide as a metaphor for discrimination (e.g. Mutants). But you say that real power and privilege in her world comes money, like ever? Are soulmates a common thing? Unless it is very common, like something everyone has, I don't see intentionally causing your soulmate harm as something that anyone would condone.

@Morrigan2575, your recap of Cross My Broken Heart has me curious but also disinclined to read it, so I have a question:

Why not post them? NSFW? Will you link?