phoenics

TBH - I think the reboot IS better than the OG show. Season 2 was awesome to me - I loved the darker tone and the higher stakes. There are some S1 elements I hope they bring back, but I hope they keep the more adult tone and higher stakes. The mythology and world-building is superior to me over the OG show. But I would like the OG stars to STFU - and I don't blame Sarah for responding the way she did after sitting quietly through years of OG actress abuse on their show. Honestly - it was the OG actress antics which kept me off the show for a while until I finally decided to see for myself and I'm so glad I did. I haven't been as obsessed with a show since OG Roswell and anyone who knows me knows I LOVED that show like a first love, lol.

The other side of this coin is that IF that was the "shocking" thing, we would have to ask ourselves - WHY IS THAT SHOCKING? Like a black guy is an alien and it's oh so shocking if he's picked? Yes, we'd be shocked because it never happens, but it would still be in poor taste of the show to call it shocking.

Sometimes certain people need to just shut the eff up about certain topics and stay the eff in their lane.

So I just binge watched and I am so mad at who won. That person's style is just horrid and he/she kept forcing it into everything and it was just ugly. I felt punked at the end like - they can't be serious! The other finalist was robbed. I wouldn't let the winner anywhere near my home - just the worst style ever and consistently (except ONE week) bad design choices. I'm so mad, lol. Maybe I just don't get British design? Because I'm appalled that person won.

Yes. Because racism is systemic and the effects build upon themselves. Which means that ADOS living in the US are experiencing the cumulative effects of 400+ years of oppression in the US. Redlining, blowing up or paving over thriving black communities just because of white jealousy, unequal lending, segregation, etc... those things happened here. Yes, atrocities have happened to black peoples all over the world - but there are certain nuances that only ADOS peoples experience here. Thus other black people from other places may not get all of the nuances and covert forms of racism that exist in the US. Just like if I moved to the UK, there are probably certain racist terms I wouldn't understand or recognize because I didn't grow up there. I would have to be told and it still would not have the same visceral effect on me that it has on British black people. I wouldn't feel comfortable contradicting the experiences of a black brit and claiming their racist experience wasn't really that bad, etc.. but sometimes it feels like the same courtesy isn't returned when it's the experiences of ADOS. I think of certain offensive terms like "gyp*ed" and how that made it into the American vernacular and was highly normalized. I didn't know the term was racist/xenophobic until I read an article about it later in life. A term I'd seen my whole life had been normalized with most people not even realizing it was offensive. Clearly various forms of racism and xenophobia hit differently depending on your proximity to them.

Excellent point.

Well, they've pretty much turned Titans into Nightwing and the BatFamily so ... I hate that, btw. I wanted a Titans show and got nothing but Nightwing and BatFamily drama instead. But on the Titans show, they show Dick's struggle with working for Batman as a teenager and his conflicted feelings over that. I wish they'd just have done the Nightwing show instead of calling it Titans though. I'm very excited to see The Batman movie - that's if we actually get it given Robert came down with Covid (best wishes for a speedy recovery). That teaser trailer was just SO good.

While I don't know if British black actors should turn down roles in the US, I do wish they would look at the privilege being extended to them and the unearned assumption that they are "better" and "more trained" than ADOS actors. In the same way I would expect white actors to look twice if they were asked to play a role that a POC should play (looking at you Scarlett Johanson), black British actors should pause as well when they get offered roles playing legendary ADOS black people. It's a really complex topic. I can't help compare this to times of Jim Crow where American black people had to sit in the colored section, but black people from other countries didn't (as long as they were recognized as being foreign). Even in the deep Alabama south. And while I don't know if black Brits should turn down roles - I at least wish they would stop pretending like they aren't benefitting from a sort of class privilege here in the US.

I'm not sure if you read all of his tweets, but it's clear that his issue is more Ben-Adir's arrogance and off putting comments than him playing AA legends. If Ben-Adir's comments had been better, it's likely WP wouldn't have said a word.

It would be the right thing to do - the similarities are SO glaring it's impossible for me to believe the designs weren't copied in some way, even if it was subconsciously. I mean - they even have the SAME cat. Something is up - and I'm guessing Matthew Cherry sued. He was pretty unhappy about it on twitter. Also in other news - another British Actor puts his foot in his mouth after accepting both an Obama and a Malcolm X role and Wendell Pierce of all people called him out for it. I read the whole article - Kingsley's comments were disappointing. I'm glad Wendell called him out. This tweet right here was absolute FIRE:

Which voice is she using? Her stereotypical and racist "fake black hip hop star" voice or her "I've made it now and turn off my fake voice" voice?

Red hood confirmed, per Titans panel at #DCFanDome. Also apparently Blackfire will be staying at Wayne Manor? Not sure if that was a joke or not. Also the Titans will be going to Gotham. So - this storyline will focus still on the BatFamily. Starfire/Blackfire feels almost like it's gonna be filler. I'm unhappy. Titans really is just a vehicle for a Knightwing show and nothing else.

Yeah - I was in that thread when it popped off and literally just watched as the tweets kept going... by the end I was apoplectic with rage. I thought I posted that thread here, but maybe I put it on the SH thread. What made me sad was that Shernold has pretty much had crappy experiences trying to write for tv because of racist white showrunners and producers. That's awful. What really frosts my cookies is that the showrunner from that show is STILL THERE and all of the PoC writers are gone! WTF I hate CBS. The only good thing they've created lately is the Charmed reboot (especially s2 from a storyline perspective) , but honestly I doubt they have much to do with it really. I get so tired as a black woman having to weigh stuff out before I get invested in a tv show, asking myself if the show is worth the investment (which means I believe it will treat the black and black women characters the right way - especially if a black woman character is the lead character). How nice must it be to just be able to enjoy a tv show without having to form defense squads for the black women characters. I can't relate.

This is doubly upsetting because this show has a black female lead. I wonder what stories she has to tell about the BTS. I hope they don't cancel the show - but I hate that the showrunner is still there. He should be fired and they need a better one. Mo Ryan on twitter has an amazing thread on this.

I said it was part of his plan to stop the apocalypse - not that the killings themselves were for that. He joined up with the commission to gain access to their tech and science so he could get back to avert the apocalypse. I guess I could have made that clearer.

I keep wondering if that was his home planet or if he just hops planets?

Probably because when Five has killed - it's always part of a plan to stop the Apocalypse. There is a difference between a hired assassin who is killing solely to stop an apocalypse and Vanya's killing (I didn't mind her taking out the agents at the Farm or the police or FBI). I think we're supposed to think Five is kind of an asshole - but he's a necessary one to stop the end of the world. He never comes off as self-centered or selfish - his sole focus for 2 seasons has been averting the end of the world. But even Five doesn't get enough of a storyline for us to even fully understand him - he's like a point guard on the show - he facilitates the stories of the other characters but we never really learn much about him. Vanya, unfortunately, is the reason for the apocalypse. It's like the writers make her sociopathic, but they want us to like her and empathize with her, so they create plot armor for her that no other character gets to excuse her actions and let her off without actual redemption. I just have a hard time seeing Vanya as anything more than a mass shooting archetype. To be fair, none of the characters are ever really held to any kind of real good/bad standard - everyone kills, etc.. I think the only one who actively attempts to turn away from her powers because she recognizes they are inherently not good is Allison.

Zoe is still a black actress - and we still live in a time where shows literally screw over their black and black biracial leads and actors/actresses - Nicole Beharie's experience on Sleepy Hollow to name just one. And of course it's partially ego - Hulu barely advertised her show - not to mention the others that had WoC leads - but the white-led shows were tossed in our faces constantly. As a black woman I hate that kind of thing because it unfairly stacks the deck against PoC content and continually centers whiteness as though that's automatically better. It's exhausting. It's hard to separate Zoe's anger at the lack of diversity on Hulu from ego (which could also be anger at not getting the same treatment her white counterparts got) when we can see the evidence of the lack of diverse shows and the lack of proper promotion for diverse shows over others. Now her comment makes me wonder if she had a similar experience to Nicole Beharie behind the scenes. We've seen quite a few black actresses come out and talk about how rough it is for them BTS of these shows - even when they're the leads.

This is what I've been trying to say. The writers gave her plot armor throughout S1 and then gave her amnesia in S2 to basically skip over the horror of what she'd done so we as fans couldn't even deal with it. We couldn't see her really come to terms with it - it's like her amnesia was a way to wipe her slate clean and show her as a "nice girl" so we'd all get over it and move on. But - aside from Vanya just being annoying and fairly selfish in S2 - Vanya still hasn't faced any consequences for what she's done in any timeline. I don't need her to be a villain - I just need her to not be babied by the writers. This is some Get Out level excuse-making for Vanya - making her the victim in a lot of situations where she did harm. She can't be all victim - at some point she has to face consequences for and atone for what she's done. But never mind - Ellen Page can only seem to pull off a constipated look in her scenes so I guess we can just crack on with it. I don't buy this - even if she wasn't old enough to understand death - most children would not react with zero emotion the way she did. They would react with a laugh if they thought it was funny and then possibly screams of terror when they saw what happened - like the crash as the nanny fell and broke stuff would scare them and they'd freak out crying. THAT is normal. Her just sitting there staring off into space as she killed with no reaction... not normal. Because of the lack of emotion she showed - even her lack of reaction at all when she killed the nannies - I do think the writers were trying to paint her as a sociopath. https://www.looper.com/197313/umbrella-academy-the-disturbing-detail-everyone-ignored-about-vanya/#:~:text=Vanya is basically a sociopath&text=Sure%2C her family%2C especially her,might imagine could be frustrating.

I mean, to each his or her own, but they could be doing much better. I can't count programming that other networks initially took the risk of creating, producing and airing when it was centered on PoC and the audiences that those shows garnered long before Hulu existed or acquired the content. The risk wasn't on Hulu to pick up shows it already knew had a following. And a lot of that content is because of Disney's acquisition of Fox and other content. It's not because Hulu was being particularly progressive. When Hulu DID have the opportunity to be progressive, we got the overwhelmingly non-diverse centered state of affairs with originals that Zoe pointed out.

The stones were called the Stones of Midnight and they were extremely powerful. Part of the whole plot line was that one of them was used by Dupris to crash the ship - but only because he was trying to get the other stones. There are more than one. So he was hiding in plain sight, thinking the alien teens had the stones all along and basically hanging around Roswell searching for the other ones. Apparently he used up most of the juice in the one he had and needed the other one(s) to open up a wormhole to go back home. It actually had nothing to do with the collective consciousness (it connects all aliens telepathically, both alive and dead after puberty) except that Trevor (Michael's brother) came to earth looking for the stones so they could destroy the collective consciousness. The CC was kinda likened to slavery by Trevor and the Alien Resistance back on their home planet. So he needed another stone so he could open up a wormhole AND send the stone back through it to detonate and destroy the collective consciousness. After what the CC did to Max (it basically became a controlling thing which stripped him of his agency and autonomy, forcing him to do things he didn't want to do), the alien teens all decided the only way to save Max and all the people back on their home planet who weren't part of it was to go along with Trevor's plan to destroy it. It was a really interesting storyline because you got the collective's point of view on Trevor through Max - to them and Max, Trevor was a terrorist. But then once you realized how damaging, controlling and wrong the CC was, you realized the CC was oppressive and Trevor was a liberator. I'm still mad that Carina never really tapped into the mythology of the book even though the show was supposed to be based on that. It's clear her real inspiration was the OG show, but we got a crappy Carina fanfiction of the OG show rather than something that really utilized the book mythology - which was so rich.

Yes, I think she's specifically speaking about original shows that star women of color in a LEADING role. Like if the actress got nominated for an Oscar or Emmy, it would be "Best Actress in a Leading Role" and not "Best Actress in a Supporting Role". And on that, Hulu is down on the list. Frankly, Hulu having content that has already been made that features leads of color isn't a replacement for them creating new shows that do.

Giving Zoe the benefit of the doubt - how many shows on Hulu have black women leads? Right now off the top of my head I can only think of one show with a black female lead (co-lead)... Little Fires Everywhere. Maybe there are others? This was her comment: “It’s cool. At least Hulu has a ton of other shows starring women of color we can watch. Oh wait.” She's specifically asking about shows that star women of color, not token "diversity".

Even still, I wonder if when you look at black roles in the US and who is filling them (ADOS vs Black British), is it the same proportionality to white roles in the US (American white vs British white)? If it's the same propotionally then I agree - I just am not sure it is.

I disagree with this - she was intentionally vicious on the way to the concert, just killing innocent people who had done nothing to her for no reason. She also kept killing the nannies too - her powers have zip to do with knowing whether killing is right or wrong - and when she was offing actual, real, human nannies, she did that with nearly zero emotion. The only time she looked remorseful about her murderous rampages was when she nearly killed Allison - that's the only one I could almost forgive because she lashed out in a fit of rage. The rest? No, she's a murderous sociopath. She DESPERATELY needs a redemption arc. But see this is the part where she really DOES need a redemption arc. There is nothing that can justify how sociopathic she was to those nannies - and she looked the same as she mowed down innocent people on the way into the concert hall. I think in S2 we could argue that she had no control (but wanted to) in the FBI building - but in S1, she just didn't care - she hurt whoever she could and whoever even stepped near her path, including completely innocent bystanders. She basically went all Dark Phoenix - but DP at least DIED in the end to make up for all the destruction, death and awfulness. Vanya just gets amnesia plot armor and 2 sympathetic characters to "redeem" her rather than her facing any consequences personally. She never even had to deal with Sissy and Harlan knowing what she did in the other timeline. Nothing happened to force her to face that with any real consequence because everyone just insta-forgave her once they realized she had amnesia. A redemption arc means she suffers CONSEQUENCES for what she did. She suffered nothing of the sort. I don't get the free pass for Vanya at all. She deserves to spend an entire season working to get the trust of her siblings back - and instead they groveled to her. If I was Allison I would never feel safe around her. Hell - losing a game of monopoly could lead to her losing it and killing everyone in sight. And even with that - her behavior to try to bring Sissy and Harlan with her, ignoring possible damage - to boot, Vanya is supremely selfish. The scenes where she's whining about that to Five just annoy the hell out of me. I can tolerate her on the show, but I don't enjoy watching her because of all of the excuses the writing makes for her and the lack of redemption.