phoenics

I really enjoyed this season. Loved nearly all of the characters and really loved that more characters had agency than just Five. This season they all took control of their destiny for the most part - except Vanya, who I'll get to - and Luthor kinda. The parts with Allison and her husband got to me on a visceral level - I got emotional when they and the other freedom fighters walked in to sit at the counter. And Allison is way stronger than I am - I would've been rumoring every person in existence to end racism, lol. Too bad she can't convert her voice into radio waves and mass rumor the world. Tuh. I loved Klaus' arc - he tried so hard to save Dave while running a cult (wtf). Just perfect Klaus. The future he was trying to prevent he helped cause. Klaus is one of my favorite characters - literally he can't do anything wrong in my eyes. Seeing Ben get some shine was good too - although it was GROSS when Klaus vomited him up, lol. Hilarious, but GROSS. So excited we get a saucy Ben in S3!! Unlike some, I don't think Luthor and Allison have incest vibes - their upbringing was so weird that I just don't see them as problematic at all and even though I liked Allison and Ray, I think it's clear the show is still Team Author (Luthor's devastation over Allison marrying Ray, Allison/Luthor's hug in the kitchen, the scene where Luthor brings Allison back from being rumored - the kiss on the cheek makes sense since Allison is still technically married - Luthor is still very clearly in love with her - Allison is still in love with her husband). Also - unpopular opinion - I don't see Vanya as being redeemed at all. She spent 99% of the season in the dark about her sociopathic actions in S1 and never atoned for any of it. Not really. Her showing she can be paternal to an autistic child and fall in love don't change that - it's just the writers refusing to give her a real redemption arc. Especially since she literally almost causes yet another apocalypse because she can't manage her emotions. Maybe that was mostly Harlan being channeled through her though - but I felt her storyline (though parts were sweet - mostly Sissy and Harlan) was a copout so she didn't have to face her actions and then set her up to set off apocalypse 2.0. That and Ellen Page is just not my favorite actress - she's utterly lifeless and the only emotion she seems to have other than blandness is petulance. She's the weakest of the siblings for me and her portrayal just bugs me. Even now when she's supposed to be unmedicated, Ellen Page still plays her dry as hell and looks constipated when she tries to emote. Last season I thought that was a conscious choice. This season, I realize Ellen Page is just not good. I really am curious about Reggie. What is he? Where did he come from? Since he's "alien" - where was he when he was with his wife and the rockets were taking off and the jar of lights was released? Why didn't he look "alien" there? Has he gone to a ton of humanoid worlds and done stuff? Are the children being born connected to the jar of lights? Is the show ever gonna answer these questions? I liked Lila and Diego. Hopefully Lila will be back in S3. I too was really surprised that she was one of them and her powers caught me way offguard. I also realized I had kinda zoned out during her fight with Five, so I completely missed all the signs. I thought Allison was dead for sure though. I think the Handler is really dead. Well and truly dead. Loved her outfits and I'm gonna miss those a LOT.

The responses to the Flash show account's tweet are hilarious though - the "Thank you Intern!" made me laugh so hard because it's probably not an intern, lol.

We can talk about it in the media thread since there are now news articles publicly calling DP out. I posted one of them, but there are a few now. Her behavior has been noted and picked up on by stars, writers, etc.. and then she went and deleted thousands of her tweets - which was also written about. Fair game now.

So they can kill her off, but they need to drag her off the pedestal first?

I saw this and cheered so hard. Finally! It's upsetting that people saw this kind of stuff before but the standard line was to just ignore it. What horrible leadership at WB, CW and the show to just let these people do this for so long. If you look on reddit's flash sub, you'll see the whole forum is literally crawling with racist misogynists who aren't used to being challenged - all of them harping on CP and Iris every chance they get - from blaming her for Hartley's firing to bitching and moaning about the promo poster she's on. It's clear to me that all the years the show just ignored the racism and hatred just emboldened and validated these people and they're acting out now in response - so much so that they don't even see their own racism and misogyny - because it was normalized and sanctioned through silence.

Our main point is that regardless of how good the actor is, there is a certain level of nuance and depth that you get from people who have experiences they can draw upon that add to what's written. Not all shows are written by people who have the full depth of experience, so they are in some ways relying on 2nd hand information. Add an actor who is also relying on 2nd hand information and some depth and nuance is lost. It doesn't mean the resulting product is necessarily bad, but it does make me wonder - what beautiful and rich nuance was missed that say, an ADOS actor could have brought to it?

What is the definition of "good" though? There are cultural moments and nuances that black ADOS actors will get that black British actors won't. Let's be real - during the Civil Rights era - known black foreigners were not subject to Jim Crow the way ADOS were. My mother - in deep South Alabama - still talks about how foreign black students were allowed into whites only sections and generally treated well, while she sat her black ass in the colored section with all of the other "regular" black folk (ADOS). There is a longstanding issue here that this casting thing completely exacerbates. Like - I cannot see a black british actor being able to bring Mia Warren to life the way Kerry Washington did. The black American experience is DIFFERENT than the black British experience. There is a layer of depth that would just be lost if roles for black American historical figures and even fictional characters were played by black Brits. Samuel L was 1000% correct. It's also vexing for me, as an African American to see black brits who have said racist ish about black people in America being rewarded with roles playing our black american heroes - and then respond by missing the point every time they are called out on it - usually doubling down on the classism that helped them get the role over other ADOS actors. I'm not saying that all black American roles should go to ADOS actors. I'm saying the trend in casting is marginalizing ADOS actors and then piling a bunch of classist "british actors are better trained" on top of it.

Let's also remember that M. Raven Metzner from Sleepy Hollow (racist) infamy was also involved with Iron Fist and also completely dropped the canon lovestory between Iron Fist and Misty Knight. And then was nasty and rude to fans who demanded to know why. This is the same jerk who wrote racist trope after racist trope on Sleepy Hollow and thought black women leads couldn't be compelling. With a guy like that behind the scenes, I'm certain that set had a toxic culture - including Loeb. I completely believe that's a direct quote. These kinds of writers/showrunners tend to flock together. And then when all the BLM stuff hit in June, Metzner had the nerve to use it to solicit from black writers, etc.. as though he'd actually help their careers. Performative asshole.

Think of a company that holds certain values. When it hires subcontractors, they usually make the subcontractors uphold those values. Netflix's "subcontractors" are the content producers it uses. If Netflix is all about promoting diversity, etc., then it can't really have content that flies in the face of that. Unless the content is only available in the region that espouses that value. I dunno - this is a complex issue.

WTF. Wow.

Hmmm... the reason I mentioned it was because I didn't understand why Hollywood was casting biracial women who look like black women I know (Kylie Bunbury, especially) who are brown-skinned. They could have cast black women who looked that way. This is in addition to the issue of them not casting darker skinned black women in general. I definitely wasn't arguing for just that skintone to be used. And this idea that most black people look a certain way? I just don't agree? I went to an all-women's college - the #1 HBCU in the country - and the range of shades and "looks" was so diverse. I just want Hollywood to reflect that diversity - and not to just cast biracial black women in everything that calls for a "black" woman. It erases brown and dark skinned black women.

They need to go talk to the Charmed producers - because they have really stepped it up in S2. Madeleine Mantauk (sp?) who played Macy, has amazing hair styles in S2 of Charmed. And not just great out and full hairstyles, but also updos, braids, etc.. In the first season, her hair was often left in the same hairstyle. In S2, you can see her hair has dramatically improved on all fronts. There was one style I remember that had a thin cornrow down her center part and then the rest was slicked back with a ponytail (with kinky curly hair added for that). Her hair singlehandedly drove me back to using Kinky Curly products (what MM uses) for my own hair - I forgot how good that stuff is, lol.

THIS! I have two black parents and I have lose hair too. Hollywood using biracial actresses so much really skews our perspective. The Diaspora has all shades - and that's even with two black parents. I have black cousins who have black parents, but they look biracial. They aren't. All ADOS tend to have a mixture of races, etc., just because of the legacy of slavery, but this Hollywood habit of casting only biracial people creates this weird idea that only biracial people look a certain way and that they don't look like "regular black folks" ever.

We aren't the only ones who noticed DP's mass delete. https://www.pajiba.com/tv_reviews/why-did-the-flashs-danielle-panabaker-mass-delete-thousands-of-tweets.php

I'm going to bed. This is the most infuriating sh!t ever - and the comments on the Variety article I pulled up when I searched on this were even worse. People literally agreeing with the producer. The producer needs to be identified - there couldn't have been THAT many white female producers on that tv show she was on in 2017. I hope twitter finds her and drags her racist behind to hell where she belongs.

This is absolute BULLCRAP. There is NO way she resigned. She was clearly fired. She was under even more heat after S2 with her treatment of Maria and claimed she was halting production to get it right - but we are supposed to believe that she was so aware of her horrible treatment of Maria (the only black main castmember) that she was refusing to handle BLM storylines? BULL CRAP! This is her doing damage control.

This. My main issue with Carina appointing herself as spokesperson for marginalized communities is that it's theater. She literally was PERSONALLY taking up space and making herself the authority. She didn't listen to the marginalized community she was trashing in her bid to prop Malex. Hell - if she had, she NEVER would have done that triangle. Who does that when only one side will win? A side was going to lose and end up even MORE marginalized. And for some reason, it was the black woman, while the two white men were catered to. Finally - an ally doesn't take up space! An ally MAKES space and amplifies the voices of the marginalized. An ally NEVER talks over them or dismisses them and an ALLY doesn't center herself and her understanding. That's all Carina ever did - it was always about her - Malex just happened to be the coattails she was going to ride to glory on after the whole immigrant thing didn't really hit as hard as Malex did. After that, nothing else on the show stood a chance. Because it wasn't about the people issues affect, it was about HER. I'm so glad I'm on record as hating her fake!woke arse before she got fired, lol.

I remember her saying something shady, but now I can't find it! I just remember it was directed at Ruby. She must have deleted it because I looked and can't find it. This is actually rage inducing. She has ZERO self awareness.

So the showrunner for Roswell, NM was just fired. According to a writer on twitter (he's gone private now), she was horrible to the PoC and muslim writers in the room (he was both). He also said that the awful racist treatment of the Maria character (who was racebent from the OG show and books and then the showrunner subsequently erased her from the narrative, gave away her LI and other canon storylines and pretty much shafted the character a la Bonnie Bennett on The Vampire Diaries). There was also tension with her and the lead of the show (a Latina). Apparently she - the showrunner - did not listen to the PoC she hired and by the end of S1 most of the PoC writers were gone - and by the end of S2, all of them were gone - only white writers remained. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/carina-adly-mackenzie-as-roswell-new-mexico-showrunner-1302667

Is that tweet fully accurate given the existence of Charmed? One of the leads is Latinx and the 3 lead characters are Latinx.

This article really sums up WHY Carina messed up so badly by bashing ITV (major international broadcaster and content provider): https://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillbarr/2016/01/11/the-cw-arrow-flash-legends-of-tomorrow-jane-the-virgin-supernatural/#2c223aa84fe9 Also, the CW is tapping into people who are johnny-come-latelys to content, and get excited about shows after they've been on the air awhile. And for some of these shows, it creates a loop effect. A show is on the air, gets slept on by a ton of viewers, but international broadcasts and streaming moves the show back up into the viewer consciousness and they watch more of it. Social media engagement is huge - things have changed. Pre-Scandal, tweet-watching was not a thing. But that really catapulted Scandal to fame and then Empire... even Game of Thrones was buoyed by massive social media engagement. That kind of buzz creates FOMO for viewers are aren't watching, so they tune in to be a part of the water cooler conversation. The CW isn't a network like the others - it has a completely different business model. Social media changed EVERYTHING. Carina threatened all of that - literally the BASIS of CW's existence - when she came at ITV.

Wow - she is serioulsy privileged to have been able to rise up like that. Black and brown writers never get that kind of chance. LMAO - this made me laugh - what a conversation that must have been.

Yes to all of this. She was just so far beyond unprofessional that it boggles the mind. Since I started my last role at a streaming company ya'll have all heard of, I've learned about how important these distributors are overseas since we're still expanding. There is huge money there - way more than what the show makes in ratings on tv. In fact, the CW makes more money from streaming and from international distribution (and then streaming there) than it does from viewers in the US who watch on TV. That's how CW stays up and running and how shows with such low viewership overall in tv ratings stay on the air. The CW has a ton of younger viewers in general who have cut the cord so they stream everything. Plus, the CW isn't even available in all markets in the US. Some markets used to have the CW years ago, but don't now. Those foreign distributors literally keep the CW open. She totally screwed the pooch. One of that writer's tweets mentioned there was disagreement about the direction for S3 too and Carina mentioned it herself. It could be that she's just covering her arse - but is it possible that TPTB wanted to come in and change direction as well? Or at least shift a bit? And she pushed back? You know the suits at CW and WB were looking at the ratings and fretting over it - her tweet was probably the last straw.

How much better off we would all have been had Julie stayed blacklisted - I'm still so upset with her for her treatment of Bonnie Bennett, but that's old news. I'm sad I was right about Carina. Before the show premiered I worried that Carina's connection to Julie meant she was a white feminist too and would screw Maria. I'm tired of being right about this kind of stuff though.

I think it was directed at Maria fans, of which I am one. I understood what you meant - I was simply clarifying why HH's position on her character is immaterial to what I find appropriate for black women portrayals, that's all. On another note - I keep thinking back to Carina's ITV rant tweets and how she went off the word of some enraged Malex fans on twitter without double checking things herself, hence her not knowing the Max/J scene was also cut too. Her "fave" fanbase unwittingly t'd up her downfall.