phoenics

Of course they did. *rolls eyes* Judalina asking is a nonstarter though. She used to like Iris-hater tweets on twitter. Fans even recently called her out for it. All of the writers are so problematic in general, imo.

I think Orlando did - but we fans knew the woman playing her sister looked to be trying to glow up in her absence. Tom Mison didn't have twitter at the time (not sure if he does now) and he never stood up to say anything... but Orlando used to say things and he actively supported us as fans. I feel vindicated yet pissed that we were right. This was quite honestly the most racist display from the higher ups at Sleepy Hollow. I'm angry that we can see this stuff coming a mile off and angry that TPTB were actually worse to her than we even knew. On twitter, a black woman writer (Shernold Edwards)brought onto the show in 2018 to write for Abby says that she was told not to speak to NB and also told that NB was awful, difficult, etc.. basically they were smearing NB to everyone. Those "blind items" we got that she was "difficult"? Clearly planted by higher ups trying to destroy her so we would accept them replacing her in the abject FAILURE that was Season 4. She gets into the sleepy hollow part about an hour into the podcast. Nicole's interview is not imo about how getting ill changed her, it was her calling out how she wasn't given the treatment her costar got and her treatment (racist treatment) made her ill and then she was BLACKLISTED because the higher ups were PISSED OFF that the fans loved her so much and they couldn't do their original plan of trying to replace her with the white woman. THAT is what keeps happening to black women on these shows and literally the ONLY thing keeping them around are fans - usually black women fans and hopefully some real deal allies who hate the BS as much as we do - fighting like hell for them.

I'd love to see the video of this - sad I missed it... but the bolded literally made me catch my breath... that's what we've been saying all along - that the producers just left her alone to face down the racism - as if it was HER fault... they never stood up for her. I'm really glad this conversation is being had but it is way too late. Nicole Beharie of Sleepy Hollow fame just revealed that she really didn't leave on her own, she was pretty much pushed out and then blackballed and blacklisted. She had a defense squad, but we were powerless to stop what happened. She is in the Miss Juneteenth movie and spilling tea about the BTS at Sleepy Hollow - where both she and Tom Mison got sick at the same time, they let HIM go home to recuperate, but made her stay and film. What's crazy is the media was informed TM was sick, but not NB - this article was the first I heard of it. Anyway, she was forced to keep filming and insulted with doctors everyday there to "prove" she was really sick and not lying and the end result was she developed an auto-immune disease and then she was labeled problematic and difficult and blacklisted. One of the writers from the show (a black woman) says she was brought on to write for Abby, but told not to speak to NB at all and told NB was awful, etc... which she disputed and said NB was none of what they said and a super sweet person. I'm FUMING. Most of us Iris-West fans KNEW some ish was happening to NB/Abby and REFUSED to let that ish happen to Iris/CP. And STILL ... all manner of foolishness popped off. Honestly at this point when fans of black women characters say some ish is going on, folks need to just believe us. Especially black women fans - we've lived this ish enough that we know it when we see it. We know when a white woman colleague is angling for our spot or the spot of another black woman. We know when we are being shut out or undermined. We know when ish is going south and stuff doesn't make sense. We know.

Mehcad left SG?! I didn't know that.

Thanks - my point was more that none of that had anything to do with my post, which is why I was confused at the other poster's response.

Stacy Haiduk has always played Lana Lang on the tv Show Superboy in the 80s, going into the 90s. I'm not sure what show you're talking about? Who is Meg?

He claimed he wasn't changing anything in the final S6 episodes, so she better stay gone. The only reason I'm barely hanging on after that mess in e19 is because I was gonna get a CS-free zone in the 1st 3 eps.

Caitlin almost dying happened AFTER Julian did all that and they still said Cait couldn't go into the hospital because she was still a wanted meta. Julian's charges would have just added to her felony count - it didn't wipe out what she'd already done. So - CS should STILL be wanted by CCPD. Teflon Meta is right. ICAM about the way CS is protected and shielded by this show for her actions and what that reflects about our society. The show will never address this though. Frosty Sue will never have to pay for what she's done. The writers believe we've forgotten. I haven't forgotten any of it.

I agree that they need to look for a lesser known actress - someone who is really hungry and will be excited to work on a show, even with a grueling schedule. I wish RR the best though. I liked her scenes with MB in the crossovers... I do wonder what this means for the other cast members though. Will they recast some of them too? Like if the chemistry is off, would the new actress just not be cast or would they recast the existing cast to make the new actress fit?

Also - John Haymes Newton was replaced as lead in S2 of Superboy by Christopher George. The show went on to reinvent itself and actually became more popular in later seasons, oddly enough. Even if my teenaged heart much preferred Newton because he "felt" more like Superboy to me and I loved his chemistry with Stacy Haiduk's Lana Lang. Also, I thought Newton played Superboy with more intensity in his facial expressions. And okay - he was just hotter. I still rewatch S1 and then lament the moment in the S2 promo when I realized he'd been replaced.

I really don’t understand the show’s compulsion to make KF into a saint. It’s unnecessary. It’s worse than Legends and Mivk, but at least Mick stays grumpy. For half the season or more, you couldn’t tell the difference between Cait/KF. And since when could Caitlin go out in public or to hospitals, etc? Isn’t KF/CS still technically wanted by CCPD police? Isn’t that why they wouldn’t take her to the hospital in S3 when she was dying of that wound after miraculously directing her own surgery that should have had her pass out from shock? Frosty Sue strikes again.

What? Oh my God! That’s just horrible. I wonder if that’s why they changed actors - the addiction part I mean. How tragic. So young to be addicted to drugs! That just made me incredibly sad!

I saw the live ratings for the network and was really surprised at the gap between The Flash and all of the other shows. The difference is probably the kids/family viewers. Of course - the DVR/streaming ratings could be a different story that closes the gap between The Flash and all the rest, but ... eh.

I agree with this - I feel like it's a missed opportunity for it to hold its own on the network. The Flash literally aired on its own without a crutch on Tuesdays at 8pm from day one and it premiered at number 1 and never relinquished that title. S&L should be able to do the same - they are gonna lose a huge kids audience.

I feel like it might do as well - but it would have to pull folks from other networks to beat The Flash... so ... we will see. It is Superman though - it's probably going to be like Lois & Clark.

I was wondering if there was a common writers behind this nonsense. I need to see if she has a twitter and if she's giving off any Karen vibes.

Thank you for this whole post. What's frustrating to me is that it's clear the writers are being shady about this but the "there's nothing to it!" stuff is making me feel like I'm being gaslit and it's really frustrating. This part in particular is SPOT ON.

I'm not threatened by their crackship - I'm threatened by white supremacy that always works to restore the white status quo. There are SO many shows where that happened, even after we thought the shows had finally gotten it together: Sleepy Hollow, Twisted, Krypton, Titans, Roswell, NM. The reason is grounded in the points I made - about how the writing has specifically sought to elevate Caitlin in the writing to being almost as important to Barry as Iris - I gave examples - when that makes NO sense narratively. If Iris West was played by a white woman - I wouldn't have any of these fears - but I've been burned so many times, how could I not be suspicious when I see manipulative writing/directing?

So there is a crossover planned, but The Flash won't be in it? I'm totally fine with that.

I don't know but I saw someone on twitter mention that the s8 villain would be I'll try to find the reference in an article.

To the bolded - it's not just about scenes. It's about the writing purposefully attempting to elevate Caitlin in order of importance to Barry. There is a scene where Barry talks about losing Caitlin, etc.. The scene where CAITLIN gets saved by Barry so she doesn't fall into the black hole, yet IRIS his WIFE has to save her damn self from going into the black hole. Then in a scene where Iris is upset that Barry seems to be giving into his Crisis fate and Barry says that he saw her and Caitlin, everyone die. He didn't mention Cisco - Cisco got lumped into "everyone". Then there is another scene where he's mentioning people in importance and he does the Iris, Caitlin thing AGAIN. It's completely unrealistic because for most seasons on this show it was always Iris, JOE, Wally (if he was aorund) and then TF. Caitlin has NEVER been mentioned that way. Then we got the episode devoted to Caitlin/KF and Barry (and the other ones for the rest of TF) AND we got a goodbye with Caitlin/Barry/Cisco in the Crisis finale where Barry is about to sacrifice himself. But Iris only got one measly scene in Crisis. That's it. That's ALL we got other than her finding out about Crisis in 2 scenes. Thassit. Then for the mirrorverse plot - it's as if Iris/Barry weren't even married - the only time we got with them was not with the real Iris. But even with that - the show went to great pains to reorient TF as being EQUALLY important to Barry and that's just BS. I don't care who you are, if your coworker-friends are as important to you as your wife, your marriage is in jeopardy. Your wife and kids come first. Period. That whole mess with everyone coddling KF? Reassuring her she's just as important as finding Iris, Kamila and Singh? Maybe the latter 2, but she's nowhere NEAR as important as Iris. Not even close! So yeah - this is being done on purpose. I'm still angry they made Iris forgive CS/KF when neither ever apologized to her for trying to kill her. And I'm really struggling with how the writing is trying to elevate KF/CS so much - with Cisco and Ralph at her beck and call, yet Iris doesn't really seem to have any support. It's still really vexing to me that no one from TF ever asked her how she was dealing with Barry dying in Crisis, except Ralph who bashed her for seeming too devoted to them. And as he flounced off, I saw KF looking at Iris and I THOUGHT (like the clown I am) that she was going to ask Iris if she was okay - but instead she says she's gonna go check on Ralph. WTF? No - this ish is totally being done on purpose. So that last scene with Barry at Cait's place was blatant ship-baiting. In fact, because I'm paranoid and I know shows like to screw over their black female leads, I'm almost worried they plan to make Iris totally evil so they can have Barry dump her and hook up with CS. At least then I could quit the show though.

Based on how Panabaker was constantly pimping SB in the press junkets and interviews, even once RIGHT IN FRONT of Candice, whilst the interviewer had to bring up SnowStorm because DP refused to, this is laughable. Maybe she should have spent more time lobbying to get RA back permanently over trying to snatch CP's lead status and Iris' status as Barry's love interest, she'd have a coherent storyline with Ronnie instead of the ridiculous crap she's given because the character no longer has a coherent story purpose anymore.

THANK YOU!!! It is just ... so frustrating the way the show is handling this and yes - it's extremely manipulative. KF/CS still hasn't apologized for what she did to Iris TO IRIS personally, so having Barry have this heart to heart with KF/CS, pouring his heart out about his fears, etc.. is such a manipulative ship baity kind of writing that I'm still mad about it a day later. I don't want to see scenes with Barry/Caitlin anyway - but if I do have to see them, I don't want them to be about Iris. Because KF/CS still haven't paid for what they did to Iris and still haven't apologized, I don't want that. This was worse than the domestic scene they did for the Thanksgiving episode with Caitlin helping Barry make a pie. Just no. These scenes reek of ship bait. Even the way this one last night was cut was just ... slow motion? Really? Apparently. *sighs* I'm not bitter. Yes I am.

Exactly.

Actually I feel like this belongs in that thread - given what we ended up getting in 3.19.