phoenics

The bolded felt like pandering to a specific portion of the fandom. There was no reason for THREE scenes being devoted to KF. THREE?!?! WTF show? And that last one, as you said was just insult to injury, especially given Barry is pouring his heart out about Iris to a character that once tried to kill her and STILL HASN'T APOLOGIZED for it! I'm still offended by that and every scene where they show Barry kissing up to KF/CS just makes it worse. I'm still angry they had Iris forgive CS/KF and beg to be her friend, while C acted like she deserved to be begged (instead of the other way around). And this finale, with three whole useless, momentum killing scenes to coddle KF/CS for a maternity send off just felt ... off given how this show marginalizes the actual female lead. Cisco got one scene as a send off, but KF/CS gets THREE? I better not see her pop up in any of the final scenes this season once they resume filming. No - we've suffered enough - keep her off the last 3 episodes. This "finale" really frustrated me. If next season continues to do #WestAllen only on paper (where we get told of their love, but we never get to SEE it play out onscreen) and continues to pander to the OTF fandom (whitewater rafting - WTF!), I don't know if I can continue to watch that.

I'm not surprised at all that it hasn't come up - although EWallace was asked this in an interview, I thought? Or maybe one of the Helbings were asked? In any case - I love Grant - in the article leanne wrote, Grant says: "I think a lot of that closeness has been missing this year," Grant added. "It's been a different season. I know people are missing that dynamic and we'll get it back I'm sure." Grant gets it. He also mentions how weird it was to not film much at all with CP this season compared to other pairings. I hope he talks EWallace's ear off and argues why The Flash without #WestAllen centered and focused on hurts the show. I mean FFS! GG/CP are the leads - we should not be having to fight to see them interact onscreen (especially for storylines that by all intents and purposes SHOULD center them - like Crisis and this Mirror storyline). But Wallace basically turned them into a couple on paper. The writing TELLS us they are so in love, etc.. but Wallace doesn't SHOW us - instead, he focuses on pairing Barry off with OTF characters and dropping crackship bait. I'm really upset by this. CP's screentime is still weirdly marginalized, even if we see her a lot. Even in a storyline that should be about HER, she's still marginalized. It's like she and Barry reside in different worlds this season. All of their scenes are with other people for the most part. The fact that I can count the number of meaningful WA interactions (and most are from fake Iris) is pitiful. Crisis should have evened things out, but Wallace was too busy recentering the show around OTF and centering them - so much so that Iris was reduced to a strong black woman trope. Season 3 had the centering much better. We got each episode pretty much ending with Barry/Iris at home... this show NEEDS that kind of emotional grounding (and no, you can't replace it with Caitlin/Barry) and pretend that's appropriate when Barry is MARRIED to Iris! Without it, it's lost its emotional center. I would have taken a scene with Barry all by himself, wracked with guilt and pain over Iris being lost in the mirrorverse than that crackshipbait scene. That would have held much more emotional weight. But nooooo. Wallace gave us that crap instead - which just made me feel angry and manipulated.

TVGuide suggested that Iris would now become a villain like Eva - I really don't see that happening, although I don't trust E Wallace for it not to happen, so ... ugh. The only way I would be happy about this is if Villain!Iris killed CS for good, or tried to. And then Iris could get ZERO blame just like CS/KF did for helping Savitar/HW's death. Fair is fair. But another possibility is that Iris from the future hint from earlier interviews of Wallace? Even if it's not the previous two - I wonder if now Kamilla and Singh will get out of the mirrorverse, but Iris is "lost" so to speak, and won't get out when they do. If this season hadn't been truncated, maybe I'd feel better about the ending and the season overall, but that SB shipbait in last night's episode with Barry injected into that weird and out of place scene (whitewater rafting, WTF?) with CS/KF's endless send off scenes really sent me over the edge. I'm tired of EWallace pandering to the worst parts of this fandom and screwing over Iris/WestAllen fans.

I was incredibly disappointed by this finale... we got 2 Iris scenes and the focus of the episode was so scattered. And ... we can get THREE whole scenes sending KF/C off where the whole cast is there to fawn over her, etc.. but we couldn't get better PoV for Iris in Crisis or even this Mirror arc? Why THREE scenes? And that last scene was pure ship bait. Whatever. I couldn't even pay attention because it SCREAMED ship bait. I hated the split screen fighting - it made it hard to follow and see - but maybe they did that to hide the post production. But I hope that isn't a feature in the future. The only redeeming things for me about the finale was Iris' cliffhanger. Honestly - the episode overall was not a good episode. The focus on side characters and lack of buildup was not good... way to kill the momentum from the last two episodes. I wish they'd just ended the season on 6.17.

Bringing this over from the media thread: I can see two outcomes. One is that Iris gets out in the next episode, along with Singh and Kamilla. But Iris is severely damaged from the neural dissonance and something bad happens - like memory loss or something like that... Or Kamilla and Singh get out and Iris doesn't - further causing neural damage to Iris. The question is - why doesn't Eva seem to have any issues? Is that because of the weird glow up chamber she used at the end of 6.18? What was that anyway?

Same - in a 3 act or 4 act work, typically the penultimate act ends in a dramatic low point for the hero.

Whatever happens, I think it's going to be really bad for Team Flash and especially Barry. Wallace said that he is writing this in Acts. He said episode 19 was the end of Act 3 in a 4 Act season. From a writing perspective - most of the time when Act 3 ends, it ends on a really low point for the hero (Barry)... I think it means Iris doesn't get out of the mirror and he's in an even worse place than before. I think you're probably right that Eva takes over black hole and Carver gets locked into the mirror.

It is especially hard to believe given how I forgot Cisco was even with Kamilla in 6.16 when he was flirting with Sue and gushing all over her. At first I was all charmed and then I was like - wait - he has a girlfriend!! And she's been replaced and he has no clue!! I feel like the show does too much telling and not showing for the emotional parts of the show that NEED to be shown, and too much showing and not telling for filler stuff (anything KF really) that don't need to be shown at the expense of the A plot.

This has been my #1 issue with this arc. I love angst - but I need to feel like it's worth it too. And when the show treats it like it doesn't matter that Iris was replaced for 6 episodes and doesn't give us enough of the soul-mate moments that make this kind of thing worth it, I worry the payoff won't be great enough. This is exacerbated by the fact that we don't get really lovescene intimacy with Barry&Iris - we barely get peck kisses at this point. But a storyline like this DEMANDS an emotional and kiss-filled reunion. It demands an epic, desperate kiss and hug sequence. I'm talking sweeping music, etc... all of it. I keep thinking back to a kiss sequence Max and Liz had in Season 1 of the OG show, when they declared their love for one another for the first time and then showered each other's faces with little baby kisses before kissing on the lips. Ugggghhhh it was so good - and not "too adult" at all. Barry and Iris on this show need something like that. 6.16-18 have really stepped it up finally - but we could have had way more scenes centering this plot rather than focusing on KF or whatever that was. Why haven't they shown #TeamCitizen still going after black hole - or at least the team asking why they were seemingly dropping that... but no... nothing on that front really. I haven't minded the Sue/Ralph stuff (except Sue is still too extra), but missed seeing Ralph integrated into the main plot better. It's like he's just barely there - plus Sue is dragging him a bit too far into camp for me. I do wonder what's going to happen with the Iris-future storyline if that's anything at all... but we likely won't find out until the original season finale (episode 22). I also thought I read somewhere that they are going to release those final 3 episodes (they should do it all at once, imo) before they start season 7? So they'll keep them separate. That's if they ever get to go back into the studio to film though I guess.

I'd think the songs are more expensive... the licensing fees can be really high. I don't mind songs when they are perfect for the scene (like that song in S3 when Savitar killed what Barry thought was Iris and they did a slow-motion thing with Iris recording her wedding vows to Barry... that KILLED ME). I thought the song they used here was okay - but I would have chosen something else, tbh, or gone with an original score - or even reused one from previous episodes - but maybe they did that already when Siri died, so they went with a song instead for the real #WestAllen scene.

It was easy to miss, but they had a small peck right before they got on the elevator to leave Star Labs. Unfortunately it immediately blurred out and the focus went back to Barry. I really enjoyed this episode. It's upped the stakes and the urgency, which I think the previous episodes lacked (except the one right before this one - that one was great). But I appreciated the heart of this episode. It's also the first ep written by the new writer, Jess Carson (a black woman finally!) and I think she did a great job. I finally felt more of an emotional punch this season has been lacking (except the previous episode and 2 episodes in the first half of the season). This show really is better when Barry is centered, along with his relationship with Iris, and his family (Joe, etc..). That's the heart this show needs so much. I have a feeling whoever is controlling the Godspeeds - it's not actually Godspeed. My radar made me think Thawne or Zoom? Or another speedster who knows who Barry is already. I LOVED the scene with Barry and Joe - way to keep the stakes high and way to have Barry go to Joe first about Iris. So glad to see him get the news before the rest of the team. Though - I wouldn't have minded Barry telling Cisco alone - and then having the team come and learn the rest. But that's minor. The only major complaint I have is that KF's subplot was completely unnecessary filler just to give her something to do and keep her onscreen. It shows how the character could disappear and the show would not suffer one bit. And seeing poor Ralph used to prop her up is sad. Speaking of - I miss seeing Ralph in more episodes. I think he has great onscreen chemistry with the rest of the cast - especially Barry/Iris and that's been absent this season. What's going on with Ralph/Hartley? Is he doing other stuff? I'm worried for Iris. I still don't think she's getting out next episode - and I'm worried about her mental state when she finally does get out. Poor Barry. He's really gonna be beating himself up about not knowing it wasn't Iris if he can't get her out soon and if she suffers any permanent damage. But I swear - they better not pull a Lois & Clark ending like that frog-eating clone storyline and make Iris get amnesia!!

This is CP's first experience as a lead actress. Considering the shenanigans happening on set with DP lurking constantly threatening to take over the lead spot and then SvS coming on in S2 and threatening the same, when would CP have been able to ever go and film something else? Her absence would have just opened the door to losing her spot for real. She doesn't have the same level of privilege or security that DP had - where she could go do other stuff and not have her status threatened at all. CP HAD to constantly be there, advocating for herself and making sure she was out there. She had to focus on her craft, etc.. and make sure she was turning in her best work. It's kinda unfair, imo, to lay this at CP's feet - as though it doesn't take a ridiculous amount of energy just holding onto her lead role. She doesn't really get the luxury of doing other stuff. At this point, it's either focus on The Flash, or find a truly breakout role like Danai from TWD did with Black Panther. Black actresses in lead spots rarely get any in-between. Hell - look what happened to Heather Hemmons on Roswell NM - she had some other projects lined up in S1 and the showrunner literally erased all of her importance from the narrative and gave it to other characters. Even though the character she was playing was SUPER important in the source material. But her "schedule" was used as the showrunner's excuse for why she racebent the character and then practically erased her. CP doing all she does to promote the show, promote representation and stay visible is smart - her doing that and people advocating for her helped her hold on to that lead spot when AJK clearly wanted to hand it off to DP.

I literally sought out this board (I'm binging the show now) to come and complain about Angela. I can't stand her right now. She claims to be trying to help people and do all this stuff - but she's utterly self righteous and annoying as hell. Also - she rags on Jessica for helping her assistant's mom from being deported, and claims she is ignoring her family - but then Angela 1) takes food from work and is at risk losing her job because she's doing too much and doesn't pay attention to the rules and 2) moves her kids out of a nice place (Jessica's) to put them on the street for a protest when she could have done that alone and 3) turns down a free home that could give her kids the boost they need to settle into a good school and keep her mom protected AND help her go to nursing school more easily. She expects Jessica to literally say "how high" when she says "jump" and won't yield at all. I must have sleepwalked through why she's so self-righteous and bound and determined to hate Jessica? And her act of refusing to accept Jessica's help with the house because she herself wants to be able to buy it? She's barely holding onto her job at this point and her pride is the reason she will never get ahead. She needs to learn how to accept help and come down off her high horse.

It's so weird - I didn't even think of this storyline with Iris in those terms, but I see what you mean. I think what made this storyline better than the usual imposter storyline though was that even though there was an imposter(s), the real one(s) is trapped somewhere. It gave it a different flavor to me - but I guess it was kind of a repeat of previous storylines... except we knew all along that Siri was an imposter. Honestly I would've loved this whole storyline a lot more if it had had better pacing and just a few more moments each episode connecting to the heart of the show (WestAllen). If they had just inserted one scene per episode to connect us to that part, this would have been so much better. But I do think the storyline has been a success - the ratings were apparently quite good. Probably because of the rona but it was still way up from the week before.

If their original contracts were for 7 years, then if there is a season 8, maybe that's when we will see CP get better stuff - although she's finally gotten more stuff this season - it just unfortunately still has issues... in my dream world, she'd be more elevated with more stories like Lois' in Lois & Clark and more of her and Barry working together on stuff. Like - REALLY working together. I really wonder who represents CP. Whoever they are - I'm not sure they are fighting hard enough for her - and they really let her down in the original contracts because she was a lead in name only while DP got all the screen time. I know that was a plot of AJK/DP's but still. I know black women leads are in precarious positions but now CP has years worth of proof that she's a huge draw for this show, both on it and off. They need to finally ignore the racist haters and give her her FULL due.

From that TVLine article: So - we'd mostly figured out that Iris wouldn't be upset with Barry at all - but I do love that Candace says she would be (like us!) - for not realizing it wasn't her sooner, lol. Like someone said on twitter, Iris should be cussing errbody out when she gets out of that damn mirror, lol! But because of how Looooooonggggg this dragged out, I do wish the show hadn't shown us Iris being snatched into the mirror or that she wasn't Iris so soon. I feel like a couple of episodes of fake Iris being there doing stuff until we all went - hmmmm Iris seems a bit off, no? And then BAM - we find out it's not her. I only say that because of how long it took for Barry to figure out it wasn't her. It's been what - since Episode TEN that she's been trapped in there. Whew. It just went on too long.

I'm placing my bet that Iris doesn't get out - maybe Kamilla and Singh do - but it's more dramatic if Iris doesn't, tbh. So my bet is either no one gets out, or everyone but Iris gets out.

I feel like this is exactly what they should have done - they shouldn't have told us that it was a clone until a few episodes later... after she did something really out of character... they could have had us all thinking something changed for Iris after Crisis... like they could have even used some of our anger at Iris having to prop up everyone else on the team that she didn't really get time with Barry much at all... and used that to show her acting weird... and then BAM! We find out it's not her at all. Missed opportunity.

After seeing s6.17, I had to come back to this perfect post of yours and agree - especially with this part. I would have enjoyed this arc so much more if they'd done more baking more of these connected moments with Barry & Iris all along.

You are absolutely right. Especially about Barry - you're right - he didn't cheat, he was raped. This show is just going to pretend they didn't sleep together - or ignore it altogether. I hope someone asks CP and eWallace on twitter if that meant Siri and Barry slept together and if so what kind of impact would that have? If the show is claiming Siri slept with Barry and there will be fallout from that, I'm mad because we never get to see Barry/Iris have sex because it's "too grown for the kids" but yet dealing with the fallout from Barry being raped by Siri is A-OK for the kids? Talk about a crappy payoff, if that happens. Maybe they'll surprise me and we will get a big #WestAllen reunion whenever that happens and we'll get more than 2 scenes of a kiss leading to something more.

This is interesting actually and it explains why some other elements are being left out and also illustrates that Wallace is trying but he's also a little ignorant too ... of intersectionality. WoC are often underserved in two kinds of narratives - the first is them being erased in narratives and not paid attention to. The second is for them to not be centered as a love interest and desired. We actually need both. We need moments where the women can talk about stuff that doesn't revolve around a man but we also need those moments where they are loved too! We need both dammit! LOL. Also - about his other comments about having a lot of series regulars - funny how he never misses a chance to write for DP's Caitlin - even if it's the 50-eleventh iteration of the same tired storyline. But we can get Iris leading alongside Barry with moments JUST for them? Except in 1 very special episode? Humph.

This sentence makes it seem like Iris found Kamilla, Cisco AND Barry at STAR Labs, instead of saying: Iris found Kamilla; Cisco and Barry are at STAR Labs. I was like - Barry and Cisco are in the mirrorverse now too?

Last night was also a pretty tacit admission from the show that there is no Flash without Iris - the minute he realized she was really gone and in danger, etc.., his powers went to zero. Even he knew it. When he talked to Cecile about the minute he stepped out of the apartment and realized that wasn't Iris, the meter went red and it's stayed that way ever since. It threw the scene with him in Star Labs working with Cisco and Ralph on the Speed Force Generator into new light for me - he was hyper focused on that and not concerned with Siri at that point because his focus was on getting his powers back so he could find and save Iris. Awwwwwww. Then his desperation at Cecile's house trying to explain his theories about what happened to his Iris, looking like this guy: And then when Siri and Eva turned the tables on Barry... whew... I felt that pain. Poor Barry looked so confused. I was confused. That was like when the Thinker messed with Barry... Siri has really been an effective villain. Shallow comment: I love Iris' black coat in this episode.

I think this is a reasonable explanation - my issue is the show could have easily had Barry try to get it on with Iris, only for her to rebuff him or play him off. It feels like the show missed opportunities to show more moments of disconnection that confused Barry - there were easily a stretch of 4-5 episodes where Barry/Iris barely interacted.

I'm not either. We're gonna have to pass out valium on twitter - folks there are desperate for her to get out the next episode, much less the finale. Meanwhile I'm like: