shron17

I'm very excited too, and so glad to see a bit more excitement here. Honestly at this point I don't think I even care that much about what happens (within reason, of course). I'm just so happy to be able to see the show, hear the la la's and see all the characters in new episodes. I noticed that too, but she wouldn't be Lorelai without it. It usually helps, for me at least, when you know the context of the conversation. At least Rory is decidedly unimpressed.

I thought Lorelai was trying to point out that while she didn't want her own relationship with her parents to contaminate Rory's feelings for her grandparents, Rory also needed to remember that Lorelai had her own history with them. So that actions taken in the present might seem very unfair to Rory because she doesn't know all of the past history that led up to them. I don't blame Lorelai at all for trying to protect the way Rory sees her grandparents as much as possible--she just wants her to have the kind of relationship in her life we all deserve to have with our grandparents (much like she tried to protect Rory's image of her father in the past). It is interesting that after the experience of living with the grandparents, Rory had a very different opinion of Richard and Emily.

This makes me wonder if even the spoilers we think we know are really spoilers. It makes me happy--I'd much rather be surprised. And yes, I know I'm reading the spoiler thread.

I like Liz too. She wasn't the best mom but she was very young when he was born and they were left on their own. I think she had good intentions, and I'm at the point now where I'm okay with any parent who does the best they can at the time. That's all any of us can do. My favorite Liz moment is when she's trying to sell her jewelry at Luke's. Luke was so grumpy and Liz took it all in stride. I like the idea of appreciating unpopular characters. The only two I can think of where I can't come up with anything are Jackson's brother Beau and Rune. Dean - he was a very good boyfriend for a while and planned a romantic date, he managed to stand up to Richard about his car without being too angry/disrespectful, he was nice to his little sister, and tried to be a good friend to Rory after they broke up Taylor - he tried really hard to take care of the town, whether they appreciated it or not, and if we go by Jackson's tenure he was actually doing a job that no one else wanted to do and he did it very well, if you can overlook his self-serving issues. I've always had a soft spot for Taylor--I think it's because he's just a rule follower at heart. Liz - even with all the mistakes she's made, she goes on and tries to do better, moves on from the past and keeps hoping for the best TJ - he does his best to be a good husband, supports Liz's ambitions, managed to buy a house and seems to be a really good dad to Doula

Spending time and having conversation with Rory is one thing; bringing out tons of videotapes to watch with her is something else. It was so obviously done to get back at Lorelai for not showing up. I don't fault Lorelai either. I do think she and Rory had an unspoken agreement to avoid sharing with Emily when either one makes a mistake--remember how Rory's shortcomings are always Lorelai's fault?--so I don't fault Rory either. Although yes, it seems like she should have been able to find an excuse to leave without needing to be rescued. Lorelai was compartmentalizing a little in that she only saw how Rory moving away for college as affected her rather than everyone else in her life. But I do see how it was probably crucial for Lorelai to compartmentalize when she moved out, had to find a job and be a good mom but also keep parts of her life separate from Rory. Maybe she just kept going with what worked for her from the beginning.

This makes some of Lorelai's decisions make a lot more sense. When she couldn't get married soon enough in one world, she decided to try a different one and soon found out what happens when you attempt to compartmentalize your whole life. And Luke took all the blame just because he wanted a little time to get to know his daughter on his own, and wanted to talk about it before running off to elope. It also explains why we rarely saw Rory with Luke and Lorelai, even after they were dating and/or engaged.

Lorelai told Luke he should go without worrying about what Nicole was reading into it so I don't think he decided to go and make a permanent commitment. It was already planned and he did like Nicole, and maybe felt a little stupid for bringing it up with Lorelai only to get her seal of approval. Since his dream was from his own subconscious without any indication from Lorelai herself, it probably made him feel more pathetic and more determined to continue a relationship with a woman who liked him..

True enough, although that's a pretty common attitude for someone of that age to have about a parent. I think Rory was reacting to the fact that Chris was single again given the past history she had seen between them. What seems odd to me is that Lorelai didn't even think it was important to mention to Luke when she got a call from her ex/co-parent to ask for help because his wife left. Rory did at least assume Lorelai told Luke, so maybe she had the right idea all along.

You're right, of course, that it's not Rory's decision to make but I felt like eloping with him was a betrayal to her all the same. The way Chris thought Rory would be happy, wasn't concerned that she wasn't there, and then insisted they tell her together felt like he was demanding rights he hadn't earned. If he and Rory had developed a closer relationship over the years she would've felt comfortable telling them both how she really felt. I'm actually surprised the marriage and subsequent divorce didn't cause more problems between Lorelai and Rory. You are right that Lorelai re-initiated contact after Rory asked her dad to stay away. But the way Christopher handled the whole situation was stupid, beginning with the fact that he avoided Lorelai without telling her why. After he did agree, maybe a better approach would have been to make some excuse to Lorelai when she called and then let Rory know he wanted to respect her feelings but maybe they all needed to talk about it.

Yes, of course. But in my opinion, kids should be held responsible for letting other people drive their car. The parent still has to deal with repairs and insurance. In this case the car wasn't worth much and Lorelai didn't have to replace it, but that's not always the case. Rory also put Jess in a very vulnerable position by handing him her keys given that Lorelai and most of the town were more than ready and willing to blame him for anything that went wrong. As for Luke, I do get your point, but like you said he was Jess's guardian in this case and didn't know what else to do. And though he asked Rory to tutor Jess I doubt he thought they'd go out for ice cream. He probably should have asked Lorelai first, but I think he only had the best of intentions.

Also, everyone seems to overlook the fact that Jess wouldn't have even been driving Rory's car if she hadn't handed him the keys. It's not like he stole it, or even demanded to drive.

What I meant by being passive with romance is that except for the instance at the auction we never saw Lorelai realize she was attracted to someone and then act on it. I'm sure she was used to having guys approach her but doubt she was never attracted to someone who didn't approach her first. Someone I know screamed "just ask him out!" at the TV when Luke failed to do it at the end of Double Date. And when we see her sashay home after the near-kiss in TDDR there's no doubt she knows he's into her. To me, this reflects insecurity and extreme fear of rejection rather than confidence and could have been a factor in the reason why Lorelai put off confronting Luke in season 6 until "now or never" was the only answer she could accept. As for Christopher, first off, I don't think anyone's behavior at 14 is indicative of adult behavior. Second, I would call that more daring than confident, and more sexual than romantic. She'd known Chris since she was a small child but they had never kissed. We don't even know for sure it was Lorelai's first kiss even though it was his. According to Lorelai it was pretty typical of her behavior with boys around that age--sneaking out of her room to see a boy, sneaking a boy into her room, etc.

The thing about Lorelai was she was always very passive with romance. We never saw her ask anyone out or even express interest in a guy until she knew he was interested in her (except for maybe Peyton Manning). Remember when she was talking to Sookie, saying she was frustrated that she couldn't tell how she felt about Max until she knew how he felt about her? And of course Luke wasn't going to openly show interest in her at this point unless something changed.

See, I think this is the whole point. Lorelai was very uncomfortable in the scene with Luke and Nicole, and Luke has been around her enough to know the difference. The cruise question does feel a little tacked on, but I think it's a continuation of what went on when Luke gave her the fishing lesson and she hesitated to tell him about Alex. Then the things that happened in Poes and their conversations show how comfortable and supportive their friendship is, Luke doesn't want to mention Lorelai to Nicole, and then Lorelai tells him about the dream but stops short of mentioning the kiss. I can see how the scene at the Dragonfly would make Luke wonder if Lorelai has a problem with him being with Nicole, and that the cruise question was him saying their relationship isn't that serious if she might be interested.

I'm fairly certain that's only the case when you are married to the child's mother. When that's not the case, biological fathers don't automatically have legal rights.

Legally, the rights go with the obligation. So if Lorelai forced the issue of child support she would have to agree to visitation and possibly co-parenting (assuming Chris would want it). And if Chris had wanted to be guaranteed co-parenting/visitation rights he would have to pay child support. They could also not go to court and have an informal agreement, but in the case of a court order the other parent wouldn't have a choice but to comply with the terms.

True. Although I do wonder if his name was on the birth certificate why she was Rory Gilmore and not Hayden. Either way, it seems very clear Christopher didn't have any legal rights or obligation to Rory, making it perfectly acceptable for Lorelai and Rory to move without his consent.

I'm not sure about this but think it may have to do with whether Chris was recognized as Rory's legal father on her birth certificate. Since he and Lorelai weren't married he wouldn't have been assumed to be Rory's father without some sort of documentation, without which he wouldn't have any legal obligation to support her or any legal rights to make a consent necessary. You could say he had a moral right to be asked for permission, but that would only be a factor if he were seeing Rory on a regular basis during that time period.

Anna said they didn't need anything but Luke insisted it was his responsibility too now that he knew and he wanted to offer whatever assistance he could. As far as Lorelai leaving with Rory, Chris never mentioned not knowing where they were. Lorelai could have just as easily gone farther from home and not kept in contact with Christopher over the years. I realize I'm giving Lorelai the benefit of the doubt here, but it always seemed clear to me she was running away from from Richard and Emily, not trying to keep Rory away from her father. Also, if I had to guess based on Rory at 16 and the type of parent Lorelai was at 32, I would imagine Lorelai would have had a plan and savings before she left to avoid putting Rory in any danger at all.

I do agree that Christopher still had an obligation to Rory even if Richard had continued to support Lorelai and Rory. The fact that Lorelai moved out with her only made his lack of financial/parental support more obvious. Given his parents' attitudes, his own lack of responsibility and the fact that Lorelai probably never asked, I do get why he didn't feel obligated. At the very least after inheriting millions from his grandfather he should have gone straight to Rory after he took care of Gigi's future. Luke, on the other hand, insisted on paying a share of support for April for her first 12 years the first time he spoke with Anna.

She's so mean, but for some reason I always get a kick out of Emily insulting Lorelai. Sometimes it's as much for Lorelai's reaction. I even enjoy Kropogs for that very reason. I'm going to give myself the benefit of the doubt and say it's because of the stellar acting in those scenes.

I think both the Hayden's and the Gilmore's bought into those stereotypes about a pregnancy being more the girl's fault as opposed to something that was done to the boy. With Richard and Emily, it was more subtle with praise for Christopher and digs at Lorelai. E.g. from Haunted Leg:

My guess is that when Lorelai refused to marry Christopher, Richard thought that responsibility fell back on him, since he and Emily were more than capable of providing Lorelai and Rory with everything they could ever need or want. So Lorelai running away to raise Rory on her own not only deeply hurt Emily but also meant Richard had failed to take care of them and keep them safe.in the Gilmore house. It also fits with the way both Gilmore's continued to see Lorelai, as a child who was incapable of taking care of herself and her own child.

While it's true Richard could have and should have turned Jason down, I don't blame him for taking Floyd's deal to save himself when it was Jason who initiated the whole thing. Floyd threatened to sue knowing it could endanger Richard's pension which he'd used as collateral and Richard really had no choice unless he wanted to risk their financial future. Emily was mad first that Richard joined with Jason for revenge, again when she discovered he'd risked his pension without telling her, and then about alienating Lorelai. I think Emily left because of multiple things, most of them having to do with putting business first. I also think Lorelai broke up with Jason because when he insisted on suing her father she realized he was just like Richard.

But it's okay for Jason to do it to his dad, and involve Richard to piss him off more? Richard was doing okay on his own before Jason came to him for help. He needed someone experienced like Richard to make his revenge company a success. As for Lorelai, maybe she should have thought a little more about secretly dating her dad's business partner who was living the lifestyle she claimed to hate. I imagine Floyd telling them their daughter was dating his son felt like the big FU to both Richard and Emily.