shron17

But it wasn't so much that he flunked out grade-wise but he missed too many days to graduate. Apparently he thought he could do just enough school work to get a passing grade and focus more on earning money for afterwards, but didn't know there was an attendance policy and ignored the warnings. Jess already told Rory in Teach Me Tonight that he wasn't going to college and his future plans were to get out of Stars Hollow, live where he lived, work when he needed money and see where he ended up. He was pretty defensive about discussing his future, so I'm really not surprised she didn't ask him again.

I do think they did, but would really like to see more that shows how deeply they're still connected and how those things they went through helped them change enough to let the other person more fully into their life. As far as Luke trusting Lorelai, since the main obstacle was always Christopher and she's since married and divorced him, my guess would be Luke no longer sees him a threat to their relationship. As far as April, it seems Luke felt more secure in their bond and has settled things with Anna to the point that he'd be comfortable fully sharing that part of his life with Lorelai. As far as their other issues, well, my hope would be that even though they would still have ups and downs that they both would have grown enough to understand how important it is to protect their friendship and trust and have worked out ways to support each other in most situations. If they've gotten married and/or had children together I think that would help them feel more secure together. Since Amy and Dan created these characters and, in my opinion, at times showed their relationship in a much more satisfying way I do wonder how much better season 7 (and 8?) might have been if they'd stayed.

I couldn't agree more. What I hate the most was how Lorelai stayed back and let the argument escalate and didn't even speak up when Chris started insisting Luke was only for now, that she was meant to be with him. Luke turned to look at her and all she could say was, "Chris don't." After failing to support him then, I agree, if she really valued their relationship Luke should have been her first priority. She knew he was only there at her insistence and was very uncomfortable being there even before her confession about spending the night with Christopher that she only bothered to share because Christopher was there. Yes. Lorelai had a tendency in her romantic relationships to be passive and then freak out or bail at the first obstacle and blame it all on someone else. For her first breakup with Luke it was Emily and Chris who got her dumped no matter that she made major mistakes and then pushed Luke for forgiveness before he was able (let alone forcing a very personal conversation at Doose's in full view of Taylor and everyone in the store). In Partings it was Luke who didn't fight for her and "let" her walk away because he didn't immediately react to her ultimatum. Maybe this was because there was no middle ground in Lorelai's relationship with her parents and she never learned to compromise. Maybe it was because she was so focused on raising her daughter during the years she would have been learning to be in an adult relationship. Thanks for sharing! This was my thinking as well. It seemed so obvious to me that they not only thoroughly enjoyed each others' quirks but were attracted and connected to each other because of their differences, not in spite of them. I'm also hoping to see a better version of their relationship in the revival. My unpopular opinion is that I think Lorelai's ultimatum was just as much of a betrayal of their relationship, if not more, than sleeping with Christopher. After giving it all way too much thought, I also think Luke and Lorelai's problems in season 6 were actually organic to each of their characters. Lorelai was always overly emotional, impulsive, needed to be the center of attention, and used pointless conversation to avoid discussing her feelings. Luke was always emotionally guarded, slow to process, overly private, and despised accepting advice or help from anyone, They were both independent, stubborn, afraid to show vulnerability and avoided confrontation. But despite a few parts of season 7, the process of finding their way back to each other should have been so much more satisfying than it was.

Actually, it was Lorelai's idea to ask; Christopher didn't offer. And it was Rory who refused her suggestion and said it was part of the full college experience:

Okay, I can agree that Chris saw her rejection as final, but I still think it was pretty stupid of him and indicated that he didn't at all understand the kind of partner adult Lorelai needed in her life. Even after she tried to explain what family meant to her (commitment, responsibility, hard work and coming home at the same time to the same place every day) he still didn't get it. Lorelai also told him he was liar but not a loser (so all is not lost?) and asked him not to stay away. And maybe it's just me, but if I told someone they were the one for me I would listen to what they said they needed and at least make an effort to do that before moving on with someone else. And while it's true Lorelai got engaged to Max, it was probably less than a week between the time Chris found out she was engaged and discovered she'd ended it. While I agree Lorelai should have told Christopher as soon as she got engaged I think moving in with someone, especially when you change your entire life to move across the country, is just as serious as being engaged in terms of co-parenting. When he crashed Friday night dinner he didn't even ask to speak to Rory, so I doubt he was only going to Lorelai so he could talk to her. In fact, Chris didn't bring Rory up at all until he accused Lorelai of keeping her away from him. It's kind of funny to assume your 17-year-old daughter, who's perfectly capable of using the phone, didn't call back because of her mom but it does fit his character. Gee Chris, maybe she's mad because of something you did or said. But it truly never was Christopher's fault. This to me sums up the whole point of parenting, and why I never saw Christopher as a good parent. He never understood the concept of putting his child's well being first, even with Gigi. I hated the taking 4-year-old Gigi to Paris to visit her mother story line. A child that age doesn't have the concept of time and space to understand they're going to be far far away from everything and everyone they know and love. Any parent who was truly looking out for his child's well being would have insisted Sherri come there first to at least get reacquainted with Gigi before even considering taking her to a foreign country for a month or two. Chris was only thinking about how hard his life was and where he and Lorelai could vacation with Gigi away. On the other hand, despite being generally clueless in some respects, I thought Luke did his best to do what was right for April at least from the time he contacted Anna.

But Sherri was more than just a romantic partner. Christopher moved across the country, got a job and bought a Volvo to move in with Sherri, yet he told Lorelai about all of his changes without once mentioning the reason he made them. Seems a little sneaky to me, like maybe he wanted Lorelai to think he'd done it for her instead of another woman. And to me, telling someone you can't marry them because you don't know each other as adults isn't final because you can certainly get to know someone again as an adult especially if the person who lives far away moves closer. When Chris went to Friday Night Dinner he said he wasn't leaving until he talked to Lorelai, not Rory. In fact he didn't mention Rory at all until he complained that Lorelai was keeping her away. Maybe if he'd started with saying he just wanted to see Rory, and when he saw Rory tell her how sorry he was for not keeping his promise instead of asking her to understand he would have gotten a little farther. Screaming at Lorelai that he didn't want things to turn out the way they did certainly didn't help. Lorelai even went outside before he left to reassure him that Rory just needed some time.

I can agree with that, it was definitely about Lorelai's relationship with her parents. Yet she still wanted Rory to make the choice best for her. Yes, I just don't see that as "pushing." By the time we met Rory she had internalized it as her own goal. If she'd changed her mind at some point and Lorelai kept pointing her back at Harvard, then yes. Or if Lorelai had encouraged her to go Harvard despite the pro/con lists.

I agree somewhat but the two biggest factors why I think why that didn't happen were Rory's age and Christopher's past behavior. By the time kids are teenagers they usually plan their own schedules and have much more input on the visitation schedule. And the fact that the status quo most of Rory's life was her dad calling maybe once a week and seeing him infrequently she (and Lorelai) didn't expect/plan for more than that. If Chris wanted to change his behavior, that's great, but he should have initiated talking to Lorelai and Rory about it (before an unexpected invitation) and probably introduced them both to Sherri and shown them where he lives. As for Lorelai, being attracted to each other was their status quo, and last time she saw Chris he said she was his one true soul-mate. Even though she turned down his proposal the reason she gave was that they don't know each other as adults, which could easily be changed if she and Chris spent more time together. Don't you think it was kind of odd that Chris didn't mention Sherri at all until the end of their visit, and also that he hadn't thought to tell his daughter he'd moved back to the East coast? I don't think that's what hurt their relationship, I think it's that Christopher made promises and then didn't follow through, on top of the way he'd so often disappointed her in the past. I also think Rory would have handled it better if he'd told her himself and reassured her that, as far as he was concerned, it wouldn't change their relationship. Instead he focused on Lorelai. Lorelai did tell Max in the Deer-Hunter that she really wanted Rory to go to Harvard but I don't think that meant she pushed her. In addition to the scene already referred to, Rory told Paris in RBP that she'd only ever wanted to go to Harvard. Also you may be forgetting that in A Tale of Poes and Fires they made a pro/con list for all the colleges where she'd been accepted and it was Lorelai who said that despite the Harvard wall she only wanted Rory to go to the place that was right for her.

I agree with this in the very early episodes. But I always thought the way Luke reacted when he saw Lorelai and Max in Love and War and Snow was the moment when he realized his feelings went beyond that. The point when he found out Lorelai was dating Alex and he met Nicole was likely when he gave up hope it would happen and tried to move on. And listening to the tape in LCSHF the pieces fell together and he realized it could be the kind of relationship he wanted to have. I also think part of the reason Luke was so attracted to Lorelai had to do with family. He lost his family so young and saw Lorelai and Rory as the kind of family he'd like to be able to have with someone.

Of course he could, but he had to choose to do that. Instead he left without talking to Rory and asked Lorelai to tell her. If Chris was so determined to be Rory's dad in the future he should have reassured her that he would always be there for her no matter how many other kids he had and no matter who he married. And he should have told her himself. Though Chris's first mistake was making promises to both Lorelai and Rory to be there for them together when he hadn't broken up with Sherri. Even Jess knew better than that. Christopher did have a bad track record of keeping his promises to Rory over the years. I couldn't blame her one bit if she had trouble trusting whatever he said. From Presenting Lorelai Gilmore there's this: and this From He's Slipping 'Em Bread... Dig? And from Christopher himself in Christopher Returns (after his proposal to Lorelai--apparently he thought they had to be married for him to have a relationship with Rory): And in Norman Mailer I'm Pregnant: These instances all lead me to believe that it was never Lorelai or Rory pushing Christopher away. The only mention of Rory refusing to talk her father was that brief period at the beginning of season 3.

So, I'm not exactly doing the rewatch because ever since I discovered this show and got the DVDs I've been doing a never-ending rewatch and I'm in season 6 right now. But reading the posts here made me so happy I wanted to chime in on a few things. Pilot - I have mad love for the very first scene with Lorelai walking through town to The La's. It just sets up her character and the whole feel of the town so well. And yes, I know the town isn't quite the same but it's easy for me to overlook. We got our first DVR not long before ABC Family started airing the show in syndication and my daughter decided to tape it every day. I didn't watch with her at first because I thought it would be way too sweet and sappy for me, so didn't even see the pilot until after I'd seen most of the series through season 5. The bits and pieces I saw walking through the room had me hooked by about episode 10, or maybe even 8. When I first saw the pilot I didn't like it very much because of the different feel but it did grow on me. I especially love revisiting Michel and Sookie's first scenes, and agree that I'm not that fond of Drella. The Lorelai's First Day at Chilton - I agree--perfectly done crappy first day at a new school. I like the way the whole town gets on Lorelai for what she was wearing and the way she relates it back to Sookie, and the fight over the peaches. It's interesting to see Lorelai go into flirt-mode with the Chilton dad and Rory's reaction. Kill Me Now - Kind of a blah episode for me but I do enjoy the Richard/Rory scenes, the fights over the strawberries and when Lorelai takes the leftover dessert to her parents. Especially this exchange: The Deer-Hunters - Another kind of blah episode with some highlights. I think my favorite is when Luke brings Rory pie and this quick little exchange that lets us know Lorelai knows Luke looks out for Rory. The smiles after are really nice too, but you have to look fast. Cinnamon's Wake - I always enjoy this episode because I really like both Babette and Morey and the whole town coming to a cat's funeral. And Emily's aneurysm at the end. I couldn't agree more. It's hard for me to understand how anyone can love the characters and the show yet have so much bitterness for the person who created it. I've (almost) come to see Luke and Lorelai's problems in season 6 as inevitable, and think Amy would have done a much better job at bringing them back together. That's why I'm so excited about the revival.

In my recollection the student fills out part of the financial aid form and then the parent has to fill in financial information. The financial aid they were expecting to get to help pay for Yale was turned down because of the $75,000 gift. It's something Lorelai probably should have thought of, yet it's almost believable to overlook it since it was a one-time occurrence. It didn't have anything to do with scholarships--Rory would have had to apply for those. When Rory didn't get financial aid, Lorelai knew she had to defer on purchasing and renovating the Dragonfly and use that money for Yale. I don't see it as ruining their careers--all they had to do was get jobs for a while and revisit the dream of having their own inn at another time when finances allowed. And I have no doubt Lorelai was fully capable of continuing to support herself and Rory without Rory needing to pay their way. Once Rory had been accepted at Yale, I still think it's a bit odd that Richard and/or Emily wouldn't ask Rory if she needed money to pay for Yale. But it's fine if no one agrees; I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I don't think Lorelai paid back the money she owed her parents in order to improve their relationship. I think she did it so that Emily would no longer have control of any aspect of her life, and I think having that freedom opened the way for them to improve their relationship if they both were willing to work at it. I don't understand how anyone would ever see paying off a debt as being done in spite, hate or anger. It wasn't necessarily a reflection on Emily but a point of pride for Lorelai to pay her own way and be free to decide how she would spend Friday night. I think everyone deserves to live their life their own way and be free to choose whether or not to interact with those people who disapprove and try to control you. And I can't see Lorelai ever craving to be close to Emily unless she finally learns to accept her the way she is and stop seeing her independence as an insult. This is very true; Emily did call Lorelai a lot. Just from the first season alone Emily called demanding to know where Lorelai was all day, called to uninvite her to Christmas dinner because she couldn't be there at 6, told her she had invited Christopher's parents to dinner, and asked for the hat rack back, Never a "Hi Lorelai, I just wondered how you were." I'm afraid I would see those calls as a hindrance also. As for visits the very first time Emily and Richard came to Lorelai's house was Rory's birthday party when Lorelai had to beg Emily to come. Anyway, I always thought Emily could have done a much better job at making her phone calls and visits more pleasant for them all. I understand. Oftentimes a co-signer is required for someone without a credit history or proof of steady income--someone who probably could pay off the loan but doesn't have enough proof for the bank (like Lorelai). It just seems to me that even a loan requiring a co-signer would probably only be offered to someone meeting certain basic requirements, but I could be wrong.

No, the loan is being granted to Lorelai. If it were being given to Emily there would be no need for a co-signer. I thought it was nice that they asked Lorelai's permission to get the car, but not sure where you're getting that they had to ask. But all of these things are about their relationship with Lorelai and money, not Rory. I don't see why any of this shows they couldn't ask Rory herself, who they were seeing regularly without Lorelai, if she needed money for college and, if so, be sure to let them know. We're talking about two different things. I can agree that it was a little irresponsible, but not to the degree you think. I also think it was smart, not stupid, for Lorelai to pay the debt and get out from under Emily's thumb as soon as possible. Then they could be on equal footing and both choose to build a relationship based on mutual understanding and love and respect and rather than on need and control. I'm also of the opinion that Lorelai's "we're done" moment was necessary to pave the way for more understanding between the two by showing Emily that Lorelai could and would cut her completely out if she didn't back off from meddling in her life. If Lorelai hadn't already paid off her debt it could not have happened. This may well have been the way Emily saw the situation. Often people don't see the things they're doing to hurt the ones they love (although Lorelai did tell her more than once). However, I don't think this means Lorelai should have accepted whatever her mother offered her and let her continue to insult her at Friday night dinners and try to control her life. Life's too short to continually be around people who make you feel bad about yourself and try to control you with their money. So what? Lorelai had the right to say either one she wanted. Was Emily upset because she was afraid she wouldn't see Lorelai anymore, or because she no longer had the power to demand that she visit? Emily always seemed to forget that she could call and visit herself, and that by actually changing her behavior just a little the calls and visits might even be enjoyable for both of them. Sorry, I just have no sympathy for any parent who tries to control their adult children and then complains that they don't have a good relationship.

Banks make decisions based on whether that person has enough assets to cover the loan in worst-case scenarios. Neither the banker or Lorelai knew she would lose the job she'd held for 15 years because of fire, or that she'd be given $75,000 shortly afterwards. I understand how a co-signer works. And I don't know for sure but seriously doubt a bank would grant a loan to anyone without the required income and a decent credit rating, even with a co-signer. The loan was still in Lorelai's name with Emily co-signing as extra insurance for the bank.

Some parents do have a college fund, but single parents on their own financially not so much. I am surprised Emily and Richard wouldn't have thought to ask Rory if she needed help paying for college, and offer to either to pay or loan her the money. They knew Lorelai would delight in throwing their money back in their faces, but this was a decision Rory could (and did) make for herself. On the other hand, Rory was completely wrong to tell Emily about the termites--that was Lorelai's decision to make and not hers. Also, I don't have a problem with Lorelai paying back the Chilton money when she got the $75,000 from Richard. She didn't want to be in debt to her parents and paid it back as soon as she could. Sure, it was naive to not realize Rory wouldn't be able to get financial aid and that it would be needed for the Dragonfly. But Lorelai had raised a child and bought a house all by herself and it's not out of character at all for her to think she and Sookie could also open the Dragonfly Inn without her parents money. It was Emily who overreacted, in my opinion. I guess she thought it was too much trouble to actually to have to try to get along with her adult daughter so she would want to come and visit instead of forcing her to come because of the loan. I mean, really, what kind of a relationship is that if she only comes to dinner because she has to? But being a bad risk for a loan and being financially irresponsible are two different things. At that time Lorelai had a steady paycheck and apparently paid her bills on time. No, she didn't have the money put away in a savings account or the equity in her house to prove to the bank she could pay it off but that doesn't mean she couldn't have paid back the loan. If not, they probably wouldn't have given her the money even with Emily co-signing.

It seems to me Taylor officiating weddings would be a change--we've never seen him do that before. I thought he was talking about a festival he was running, which doesn't seem bleep-worthy, unless the name hints at a plot point.

Maybe the cameo is at the very end of one episode (Spring?) and he's in the next two.

I think a short scene between Paris and Tristan could be interesting, given the crush she had on him through their school years. She might get reacquainted and wonder what she ever saw in him (besides his looks, of course).

Maybe we should wait and see. It could also be written that they have grown up and moved on but are having a once in 10 years anniversary type fling. It's not something I'm particularly interested to see either, but I think it could be believable (and hopefully not take up too much screen time). it's not like men and woman in their 30's never ever do anything crazy.

I didn't see it as a final rejection, especially not after Lorelai told Rory "he has a long way to go before he's ready to take us on full time." But also because I think it is crazy to drop in for a visit, sleep with Lorelai, and then get up the next day and expect her to commit to him without any further discussion. Lorelai was right--they didn't know each as adults. Regardless of whatever visits they had it was his first time visiting their house. Lorelai told Sookie he calls "maybe" once a week and presumably talked more to Rory. The first time I saw Presenting Lorelai Gilmore I was just as surprised as Lorelai that Chris had moved on after all the things he said to her in Christopher Returns, and I liked him much less. No wonder if Lorelai felt she couldn't take what he said seriously. I do see why Christopher would take it as a final rejection, but given Lorelai's reason was "we don't know each other adults" I was surprised he didn't call at some point and ask if they could talk about it more, even to figure how they could get to a more positive, hopeful place about his future with Lorelai, if that was what he really wanted. It seemed to me that even though Chris said he wanted all of them to be a family he wasn't willing to put in the time and necessary work on himself that would allow that to happen. Lorelai was clearly upset that he'd lied about his business success to everyone and had asked Rory to lie to Lorelai for him but never indicated he couldn't have a second (or even third) chance.

It's not so odd when you remember that several months earlier he was suggesting to Lorelai that they get married and get to know each other adults. After she refused, they had the exchange below: It doesn't seem so crazy to me that when Lorelai found he moved closer, she thought that he wanted to see more of both her and Rory, and work towards all of them becoming a family the way Chris said he wanted. Instead, he must have changed his mind about Lorelai being the only one for him and was moving in with Sherry. It was Sherry who said this, not Lorelai, Rory, or Christopher. They did smile and nod when she said it but were obviously covering for him. A few months earlier in Presenting Lorelai Gilmore Lorelai had to call information to get Chris's new phone number and didn't know he'd moved to Boston until she called it and asked where he was.

Honestly, I'd like to think that in these situations both parents would want to do whatever was best for the child. This would mean the custodial parent being cooperative and flexible with visitation, the non-custodial parent being supportive but not disruptive in making demands, and both of them being supportive of the others role in their child's life. So yes, I do believe if Chris had been supportive of Rory in figuring out visitation and child support Lorelai would have been willing to work it out. I didn't see any evidence that Lorelai tried to keep Christopher away during the series. And I don't think her reaction to his invitation to Rory in season 2 proves that--it was completely unplanned and out of the blue. It sounded to me as though Christopher was out in California from about the time he dropped out of college but details are vague. It was clearly stated he'd never been to Stars Hollow until Rory was 16 so it sounds as though he wasn't around much.

I for one would have loved to see Christopher grow up enough to be more supportive to Rory by the end of the series. Like after the proposal when Lorelai went after Rory and asked Christopher if he wanted to come, he could have accepted. He could have told Rory he was going to go and let her talk to her mom but just wanted to let her know he would support her whatever she decided, and to call him if she wanted to talk about it. Personally, I see the idea of Rory needing only Lorelai or wanting it to be the two of them against the world as a fairy tale. All of the single parents I have known, including myself, were happy to have any support offered whether it be physical, financial or emotional. It's a hard job for one person. I think the kind of shared parenting you're referring to is used more when the parents were raising the child together for a number of years and then split up, not so much in a case like Lorelai's where they were never married. Since Christopher spent all those years in California it wouldn't have been possible anyway

But that doesn't really matter. Sadly teenagers aren't required to prove their decision-making ability but become legal adults at 18 regardless, and parents who keep trying to control them usually just make things worse. Lorelai said she became an adult when the stick turned pink, and seemed very aware that every decision affected her baby's life as well as hers. Once she turned 18 she had the right to make decisions for herself and for Rory whether her parents agreed or not.

Most parents begin this process during the teen years as their child grows more independent and shows signs of maturity. I would say Emily and Richard lost Lorelai because they refused to start developing that adult relationship with her.