shron17

This show was about family, and all families lose parents and grandparents at some point. At the reunion when Kelly Bishop talked about where Emily would be now she spoke in terms of her being alone now. So not disrespectful at all to do the revival. I'm looking forward to it, and very excited to finally see Amy's version of what happened to all of the characters that she created.

I do too. But if this does happen it could turn out to be best for her career and her love life. It was pretty obvious that even though she loves Jeff she knows he's not particularly worthy of it.

Exactly. Not to mention the fact that these were planned appearances for which she likely knew it was okay with the venue, promoter, etc. Juliette didn't ask anyone.

I think the deal was he would file for divorce in another state using their middle names so Juliette wouldn't get bad publicity in exchange for giving up her parental rights. If Juliette was really ready to change she could let Avery know this has been a wake up call to her that she doesn't want to lose Cadence, agree to therapy and treatment and ask if he would consider holding off filing for divorce while she tries to get her life straight. And not expect him to let her move back in with them any time soon after the stunt she pulled last time. Juliette's problem all along has been that she rarely takes responsibility for her actions. She needs to get to a point where she's willing to own her behavior and get help to fix it. Avery's decision seems necessary to protect Cadence as long as Juliette lives the way she has been.

I've seen many examples of teens who put their best face on with others and save all the worst for their parents. Also, they're often still in the process of separating their own identities from their parents which causes them to appear much more self-centered in those interactions. So yeah, completely normal.

First, since Emily and Richard weren't around Rory when she was young that much either I don't think they know how much Christopher was or wasn't involved. And more importantly I think it was really important for Emily and also Richard to believe that when Lorelai moved out of their house she cut everyone out of her life, including Christopher, and that her independence and determination to take care of her daughter was so extreme that she wouldn't have accepted any kind of assistance even from him. Remember in It Should Have Been Lorelai, Emily said "you pushed him away, you push everyone away." Lorelai (and probably Christopher) know this isn't true and we know it isn't true, but it seems completely believable to me that Emily has doggedly believed this over the years and consistently refused to see anything that doesn't fit her perception.

It's because it was made up of clips which they don't have rights to release. The good news is the complete panel with everything but clips will be released by EW sometime today.

I agree that I really loved when Scarlett said I only felt music, though it took me a minute to recall when Gunner said it to her. I loved how their argument filled in all the blanks. Gunner proposed but then moved on with Zoey because he felt rejected and needed someone. Scarlett turned him down because she knew he wasn't in the right place and waited for him to figure out what he wanted and come back so they could figure out together what they wanted as a couple. When they sang together it brought up those old feelings, and it seemed to me if Scarlett hadn't nixed the deal for them to write a bunch of songs together they would have ended up back together for the wrong reasons and hurt Zoey in the process. When Scarlett saw Gunner at the party and was brave enough to ask about the feelings the singing brought up, that's when he said I only felt the music. He blamed Scarlett for losing the deal and couldn't admit he had feelings for her at all. So I'm sure they will end up together but yes, Gunner really needs to grow up. If you take into consideration the way Gunner grew up with his brother, just managing to turn his life around to make music in Nashville instead of ending up in prison is a success story in itself. It's not unbelievable at all that he hasn't picked up any relationship skills along the way.

Since Abigail loved Henry and knew how much time he'd spent on his own I can believe she would leave Abe so Henry would have family as long as possible. As fixated as Henry was on her staying, there would have no way to see him or let Abe know where she was without Henry finding out too. Though, I agree, still very sad.

It wouldn't have been easy, that's for sure. But if Emily had been persistent yet respectful of the fact that it was Lorelai's life and Rory was her child, I think the odds of success were much better than trying to force the relationship. Love works better than leverage.

I guess you don't think moving out of your parents' house with your infant daughter because you wanted to provide a better environment for her and working as a maid to support you both is suffering adult consequences. Lorelai did take responsibility for Rory and didn't hesitate to do what she needed to do to offer her what she thought was the best possible life. That's what the whole show is about. If instead she had left Rory with her parents while she went off to find herself, then yes, I would agree. Sure she could have, if she was the one who wanted to repair the relationship. I'm only saying if Emily wanted to have a relationship with them there are many many ways she could have worked to make that happen instead of forcing visits. Lorelai didn't move halfway across the country--only 30 minutes away. Are we to assume Emily had so many obligations she couldn't possibly spare the time for regular visits to get to know her granddaughter, even if it had to be under Lorelai's watchful eye? Instead Emily put all the responsibility on Lorelai, expecting her to put in the effort and make all of the compromises because she moved out. It would have been nice if Lorelai could have been more open to having a relationship with her parents once she moved out, but I completely understand why she didn't feel any obligation to do that given the way she was often treated.

Well, no one "grants" them that control and it's not control of their parents but of their own life. Of course you don't make parenting decisions based on the idea, but I think it's wise to recognize that if you have a bad relationship with your child and want to continue to be in their life, you should be trying to do what you can to make it better. Children don't have a lot of choice about who they spend their time with but adults do. If most people were criticized by their mother as much as Emily criticized Lorelai, they probably wouldn't want to be around her either. If Emily really wanted a relationship with her daughter there were a million more positive ways she could have approached it years earlier than just waiting until Lorelai needed money. I said she set the conditions as a way to control Lorelai in terms of how often she saw her, not punish her. Emily wasted a lot of time trying to force Lorelai to let her be part of her life when she should have been figuring out what she could do to make things better between them. Like if she did visit and felt unwelcome, ask herself what she could change to make the visit more pleasant for everyone.

Parents should always remember that after the age of 18 their child has the legal right to live their own life and any contact they have after will be based on their relationship up to that point. Emily and Richard thought they could control Lorelai with their money. It's probably true she wasn't quite 18 when she left but probably would be soon, so no, I don't have sympathy for parents who aren't willing to change their behavior and then are devastated when their daughter figures out an escape route. There's nothing to indicate they didn't know where she was for a long period of time or were somehow prevented from visiting. Yet Emily almost gleefully started setting conditions as soon as Lorelai asked for their help, telling me it was all about control.

This is the only reason that makes sense to me. It is out of character for Rayna to lash out in anger. I think it came out of shock and desperation to stop what was happening. There was no time for her to process and build up anger about any of those other things. If it was out of anger she would have turned away, not sobbed into his shoulder. As a viewer who enjoys the earnestness over the drama, this makes sense to me in that I generally don't care for Juliette's story lines. But still, I'm not convinced it is only a soap opera. Rather I think while some of the soap opera elements you mention are present, they at least some of the time play out in a more complex way. E.g. it's clear now that Rayna's crash was necessary in that it was just about the only thing that would have been a real obstacle between her and Deacon. Even so her conviction to move away from their relationship completely wasn't believable to some. Teddy and the prostitute was over-dramatic for sure, but I do buy the idea that he would do just about anything to keep his daughters from finding out. So for now at least, the realism I see in this show is enough for me.

Also, if Rayna hadn't threatened something so drastic, Teddy probably wouldn't have told her the whole sordid tale and she wouldn't have had anything to use against Jeff to fix it the way she did. I'm just glad it all worked out, for now at least, without Maddie and Daphne finding out their dad hired a prostitute and without Maddie's career being controlled by Jeff/Edgehill.

I don't believe putting the name of a non-biological father on the birth certificate is saying he is the biological father. If so, they could just require a DNA test. It does mean he's the legal father and liable for support of the child, unless disputed and proved.

Paternity fraud is when a woman names a man as the biological father when she knows he isn't in order to collect child support which is not at all relevant in this situation. There is no fraud unless profit is made. Maddie is a person, not a possession, and none of her parents "own" her. Teddy has been Maddie's legal father for 15 years which would be in his favor in court.

I'm no legal expert but as far as I know the father listed on a child's birth certificate is their legal father and is jointly responsible for the care of that child including rights to custody/visitation, child support and full custody in case of the mother's death. According to law when the child's mother is married, her husband is the presumed to be the legal father so the marriage is relevant. The legal father doesn't have to be the biological father and the biological father doesn't automatically have rights unless he files with the court to establish paternity. Again, I'm not certain of the details but doubt that Deacon establishing paternity for Maddie at 15 would automatically terminate Teddy's parental rights.

You are getting legal and biological mixed up. Teddy is Maddie's legal father because he was married to Rayna when she was born, as well as his name being on her birth certificate. The birth certificate is not fraudulent since the DNA test wasn't performed until after she was born. This is why Rayna told Teddy she would go to court to remove his legal parent status as a last-ditch attempt to void the contract.

Well, I could be wrong but I really think that's what they're working towards. Deacon's been shown since the beginning to be impulsive, hot-headed and stubborn, and these things have probably contributed to the unhealthy patterns in their relationship along with Rayna's less desirable attributes. I wouldn't call him a lovesick Romeo but I do think he feels a kind of desperation about being with Rayna, even when they were together in season 1. Maybe aside from the bond they've always had it represents a type of redemption for him? The part of what Deacon said when he proposed that I liked the most was when he said he'd tried to move on but realized he was just lying to himself and he didn't want to do that any more. That definitely shows growth and honesty, he just needs to accept that he has to let Rayna find her own truth.

The way that Luke proposed doesn't excuse what Deacon did--Rayna was in a relationship with Luke, not Deacon. Luke had recently told Rayna he was very serious about her but wasn't sure she felt the same way and she assured him she was. He also said on stage to tell him if it was no and he could wrap his head around that too. I'm not a fan of the public proposal either, but it was Rayna who said yes, and Rayna who thought over both proposals and stuck with yes to Luke. This makes it sound like she's incapable of making up her own mind. Last year she told Deacon she couldn't try with him again, that they both needed to save themselves and she's stuck by that. Deacon did too, until the lawyer cheated on him. I don't have a problem with Deacon going there but he should have been respectful of the fact that she just told another man she would marry him, said his piece and told her to call him if she wanted to talk.

I agree Juliette's reaction must have made Deacon stop and question his own hold on sobriety. Part of what she said was "I tried to tell you but you had to drag me through it again. I knew she would never stay clean." Even so, I think the apparent fact that she overdosed after he tried to help her had to have a huge affect on Deacon as well. He got Jolene into rehab by sharing his own experiences and told Juliette he was no different than her mom. It's not so unlikely that her overdose would make him question his own sobriety, at least enough so that when he found out about Maddie he went to a bar instead of calling Coleman. And I might be wrong, but I thought he had every intention of going to the meeting like he told Coleman he would until Juliette called. It had to be hard to promise to go to Juliette's service for her mom at the Bluebird and to risk seeing Rayna, so he drank some more. One last thing, if you listen really close at the very beginning of the flashback right before the accident happens you can hear Deacon shout "I don't believe in the program okay--It didn't work for Jolene and it certainly didn't work for me--this is who I am!" I do understand where you're coming from. I think the difference is, as much as I loved some of the things Deacon said when he proposed, I really hate the way he did it. Rayna had just accepted Luke's proposal and never indicated she didn't want to or couldn't move on from Deacon. When she made her declaration to him in the first season, he brought it up first and she went and said her piece and then turned to go when he didn't respond. And she did overreact this episode when he said his piece about loving her, but it could have been because of the tough spot he put her in when he proposed and when she answered him. Yes, she still has feelings for him but there's no law that she can't move on with someone else. People can love each other and still not be able to make it work in the long term. Now, I know this isn't going to be the case and I will (hopefully) be as happy as anyone here when they finally work it out. But until then, I will defend Rayna and/or Deacon's right to move on with someone else without the other person trying to convince her or him that they belong together.

But the only one who knew this was Juliette, and so far as we saw she hasn't told Deacon. Everyone else thought it was a drug overdose/suicide thing. I do like Deacon and think he has become a better person. I just think he's ultimately caused a lot of his own problems, as have most of the characters, and making him seem like he's the victim makes it too simple.

This is a very simplified description. Yes, Deacon was sober every day for 13 years, but there’s a lot more to that story. I've been rewatching some of season 1 from the episode where he's fired from Rayna’s band after arguing with Teddy. First he helps Jolene go to rehab and then sits up all night counting the 7 pills in the bottle she dropped before giving them to Coleman. Then he punches a guy who was heckling him a little at the Bluebird, went to jail and called Rayna to bail him out. Rayna refused his call, and it was clear this had happened before. Later Deacon gets a job with a band that doesn’t work out, both because the guy in the band was a jerk and but also because Deacon can't handle conflict in relationships. So while he was sober, I think it’s safe to say Deacon still had problems that kept him from having a successful solo career and being in long-term relationships with anyone not named Rayna. I also disagree Deacon's relapse was about the lie. Though I haven’t seen those episodes in a while, Deacon says a lot of things both before and after the accident that indicate his relapse was more due to self-blame and self-hatred he still carried with him from his alcoholism. I always thought Jolene’s death played into it as well, since as far as he knew she died of an overdose despite his efforts to help her.

I agree with this and would add that Rayna has been shown to be incredibly loyal. She took Deacon back and believed he could change for years before she finally gave up, and stayed with Teddy and kept their secret for years as well. Despite the fact that most viewers dislike Luke, Rayna thinks she loves him and accepted his proposal and I wouldn't expect her to show him any less loyalty. Though her loyalty may be a little misguided this time, I still think it's a strong characteristic rather than a weak one. She turned and walked away as soon as he said that, and I think he got the message somewhat. An awards show like that where they both have so much at stake would be stressful, and if couples broke up every time someone said things they shouldn't most wouldn't even get started. I'm thinking Luke was expecting Rayna to thank him every time she won and finally blew up after sitting there while she thanked everyone else, albeit those to whom she felt she owed her success. Now if she had thanked Luke first every time so he wouldn't be hurt because she knew her awards were really all about him, I would be right there with you calling Rayna pathetic. And most of the professing of love and the kissing didn't happen until after he recanted and apologized. Definitely, and in public no less. Given the audience I think being gentle and taking the high road was probably the way to go. It's unlikely no one will make the connection that it was directed at Luke and speculate over why it was said.