shron17

Yes, but you're comparing creating an entire show to acting one part on a new but already created show. I believe LG attempted to create a show with a role for her that didn't even make it out of the gate.

Well, to be fair, Kirk didn't make the egg map as instructed so he could throw all the eggs away after the kids were done. I kind of like Taylor. I mean, he is egotistical and OCD but he seems to do a lot for Stars Hollow. And he so often gives the other characters someone to rant or throw wisecracks at, I don't think the show could be the same without him.

As I recall ASP also said Sutton Foster willingly did whatever was asked of her. Maybe LG was a bit harder for ASP to work with as a writer/director. Although I agree, she's very good with the dialogue.

I can agree with all of this, except I cut Luke more slack for arguing with Chris about Rory. While Luke should have kept his mouth shut, it was Chris who sat at their table and then followed Lorelai and Luke on his own. Also, Luke and Chris had met and Chris was being a jerk throughout the reception. Not really justified, but more understandable in my opinion.

These are two completely different situations. Lorelai has known Rory since she was born; Luke found out about April less than a year ago and has been seeing her regularly for only a few months. No comparison, in my opinion.

Bottom line, Lorelai never should have gone to Anna on her own. She should have gone to Luke and said, "Okay, you involved me with the party. I am involved now and need to meet Anna." By going behind his back she disregarded any authority Luke had over his daughter and most likely compromised Anna's opinion of Luke. And made herself vulnerable to Anna's whims. I don't think we ever saw Lorelai ask Luke how he was doing with it all and really listen to what he said. She tried to be supportive and gave him advice, but never tried to meet him where he was in the process. Jess asked how he was doing, but never Lorelai. When Luke talked about April to Lorelai, she mainly gave him advice and then looked hurt when he wasn't grateful. He did involve her with the birthday gift shopping and she made fun of him even though she knew he hated choosing gifts and was likely feeling vulnerable about April. I'm one of very few who actually feel that Luke had the right to build a relationship with his daughter in whatever way was comfortable and worked for him. In fact, I think he had an obligation to April and himself to be authentic in their new relationship. It's great that Lorelai already knew so much about raising Rory, but in my opinion, it was far more important that Luke find his own way as he learned to be a dad to April. And if he had included Lorelai more, I'm not sure she could have given him the space he needed. Also, it sounds a little like you are saying Lorelai isn't suited to be with any man who isn't willing to let his life revolve completely around her regardless of what he wants for himself. You may be right.

She also just broke off an engagement. I thought it made sense that she wanted a little peace and quiet and space from other people. You could see her tense up when they drove back into Stars Hollow and she knew she was going to have to talk about it. Lorelai was often a chatterbox to avoid talking about her feelings and consistently ran away from her problems rather than staying and trying to work things out. Probably because she didn't like to compromise, like Emily pointed out in season 7, and running away made it unnecessary.

The things is, Lorelai never did confront him and tell him how she was feeling. Her feelings were all wrapped up in a story she told him about how they had to elope now, because now was the time, and Anna said it would be okay, and she liked the purple wallpaper, etc. etc. I don't think anyone should be expected to be a mind reader in a relationship, nor should they be expected to have an important relationship-changing conversation on demand when confronted by their fiancee at the end of the long, busy day. So, was it your expectation that Luke had watched season 6 of Gilmore Girls and knew everything we knew about Lorelai's state of mind? How can he be expected to take her needs into account when she isn't clear about letting him know what they are?

I've always hated the typical romance type dramas and never rooted for a couple like this until LL. And I think you just explained why. Give me reality any day (but not reality shows!). But I don't blame it on the Palladinos because I actually think they tried to stay true to the characters while staying within the confines of whatever limitations they had at the time. The expectation that Luke should have chased her down bugs me much much more than anything Luke actually did. To me, that would be more controlling than romantic (what if she really did just want to walk away?), and Lorelai's ultimatum, including her declarations of love, always felt more manipulative than desperate to me.

Luke didn't say, "oh well bye" but kept talking to her. But for two people to have a conversation they both have to be receptive to the other one's point of view. I get that Lorelai was past that point by the time she went to the diner but since she'd been hiding from him all day that was on her for not going to him sooner. We never saw Luke refuse to talk to her about it. Yes, Luke shot down the idea of leaving to elope that minute, and he was unhappy that she went to talk to Anna without his knowledge. I don't blame him for either of those things. When Lorelai said now or never, he very honestly said "I can't just jump like that." He didn't say I don't want to marry you, he didn't say I don't love you any more. Why couldn't she meet him halfway at that point? Did she have to call all the shots? Luke listened to Lorelai and tried to base his response on what she said, and was trying to consider what he knew of her needs. I don't think he was at a place where he realized if she walked away their relationship was over. If she really didn't want to walk away when she said "I gotta go" then why did she? Is Lorelai so insecure/egotistical that she needs someone to plead with her to stay when she says she has to go? If instead of "I gotta go" Lorelai gave him back the ring and or told him it was over I think his reaction would have been different, and she would have seen that he did give a damn about their relationship. It made sense to me that from Luke's point of view it would be better to talk to her after she calmed down. ETA I always felt like Lorelai's "I gotta go" was half-hearted because she'd realized if she stood by saying now or never, leaving meant they were done and she wasn't sure she was ready to to do that. Maybe that's why she didn't state it or give him back the ring?

But Luke wanted to talk and Lorelai shot down that idea before they even got outside! I don't understand how Luke can be expected to stop her from walking away, let alone why. Does Lorelai not have free will? Was he supposed to grab her arm and say no, you're not leaving until we talk this out? I have no doubt Lorelai felt justified by saying now or never, but it was also her version of my way or the highway. Without physically stopping her, I don't see what choice Luke had other than going with her to elope or letting her walk away. And that's how she wanted it. Sure, I guess she's entitled to end their relationship without allowing him any say and then sleeping with her ex, but I don't think it's right. Also, I think the whole debate about why she didn't say it's over or give him back the ring boils down to the question of whether Luke would have let her walk away after ending the relationship, since he obviously didn't think she had the next day.

I watched Double Date last night. Speaking of MM's physical comedy, I loved the bit where she calls Jackson to set up a date while she waves the spoon around with her other hand. It's the little things. And Lorelai/Mrs. Kim scenes are always good.

That bugged me too. I blame it on the season 7 writers. Continuity is always an issue but that seemed like a pretty big shift.

Ditto on the Gypsy love. In particular, this line which takes the edge off of all those times a male mechanic made me feel like an idiot. Also, can't read about Dean giving Rory her car without giving this exchange some love. Ed's delivery was perfect.

So, just realized how closely these two relationships are entwined in Lorelai's mind. She gives Christopher slack with Rory because she still wants the possibility of a romantic relationship with him and she keeps allowing herself to fall back in love with Christopher so easily because he's Rory's father which should (in theory at least) automatically reduce any risk her relationships have for Rory.

Re: similarities between Tristan and Logan, I agree, except that the one significant difference was Logan was in line for a prime spot in his family's newspaper empire. Naturally since Rory was in college and planning to be a journalist this made him more attractive. I'm not saying Rory dated him because of that, but it seemed to make her more interested and more motivated to get to know him. Also, Logan was carefully written as just moral enough to be acceptable to someone like Rory. Up until about season 6 I was expecting her to find out Logan was doing something she found unacceptable (cheating on and/or selling exams? plagiarizing papers?).

I agree with your rule, but there are two exceptions in this case. Christopher never ever played a parental role in Rory's life--through his own choice he spoke to her on the phone maybe once a week and saw her 1-2 times a year throughout nearly all of her childhood. For this reason I don't think he's owed the same respect as someone who is consistently and actively involved in their child's life. Also, Luke spoke up only in response to Chris's claim that whatever went on with Rory was none of Luke's business. I think Chris was way out of line saying that, especially since his daughter asked him only months before to stay out of her mom's relationship. Luke was out of line with his response but never should have had to defend why he was there and cared about what was going on with Rory. I always wish Lorelai could have somehow stepped in and stopped the conversation as she was the only one with any right to have an opinion on Rory's behavior.

Although their relationship leaves a lot to the imagination, I wouldn't go that far. There are quite a few small moments sprinkled throughout the background in season 1 to tell us Luke has a consistent role in Rory's life by making sure she's fed, nagging about what she eats, recognizing her birthday, etc. I don't see him as a surrogate father either, but there were times even in earlier seasons when it felt like the three of them had a surrogate family relationship. I think it was wise not to want anyone she or Chris dated act like a parent to Rory, especially given Rory was 16. Even if either got married, becoming a step-parent to a 16-year-old is more like being a friend than actual parenting.

I think their breakup came out of Dean's realization that he didn't belong there because Rory was more comfortable now at her grandparents and with people from Yale. They had both been struggling to put the time and effort into their relationship even though it didn't fit into either of their present-day lives. I always thought Rory didn't protest or go after him because she knew he was right. One of the biggest differences between Logan and original recipe Rory was that she generally held herself responsible for her actions whether it was breaking Paris's project, being a bad friend to Lane, missing her mom's birthday, taking food from the cafeteria without paying for it, etc. etc.

But the goal wasn't to meet Logan--Lorelai had already met him. The goal was to be present for the first family dinner that included Rory's boyfriend. And the "you and me we're done moment" wasn't necessarily about cutting Emily out of her life forever but proving that she could and would.

It was like 2 weeks. Though while short, I think Lorelai still got her point across. Emily did stay out of their relationship after that and even tried to buy them a house. I understood why Lorelai wanted so badly to be at that dinner, given her relationship with her parents and with Rory. In part because she felt she needed to protect Rory from their meddling, which she tried to do.

I don't know, I think Emily thought she had good intentions. But she's always decided what was best for Lorelai based her version of Lorelai rather than the person Lorelai really is.

I took this to mean that while Rory felt like she had very eventful summer, it was nothing compared to Marty's.

That is a very good point. Logan does get blamed for many things Rory totally did to herself, and he was very supportive of her in his own way. Even though I don't care for him so much, Rory did grow a lot in strength and confidence while dating him, and I imagine their relationship may have been one she needed to experience on her way to figuring out who she was. I liked Marty but they were too similar to offer as much opportunity for growth. Even professionally, it was no accident that who Logan's family was set the stage for a fulfilling end of series career dilemma/decision for Rory. At least latching onto Logan wasn't as bad as trying to re-create Dean and Rory, the high school years.

It's interesting that both times she did it for Logan, not all that surprising since after a certain point (?) Rory was always scurrying around trying to get Logan to like her. I didn't realize how much I was starting to dislike her until she went to Logan in BIAG with her I'm a girlfriend girl speech. But just when she was finally likable again, she let Logan talk her into being her boyfriend, apparently not realizing that just because he insisted he could be her boyfriend didn't make him a good choice for her.