Temperance

The Spurgeon stories and theories on Christmas remind me of my neighbors who are Jehovah's Witnesses. They always think all Christian religions have pagan origins (and they may be right, but I don't care.). The JWs also seem to be a group of holier-than-thou people. Maybe Ben should join. I don't mind the theories of Christmas. But considering I pictured Duggar fans as anti the red cups, I'm sure there are people who mad at Ben. Who knows maybe posting Spurgeon's views on Christmas is supposed to teach the red cuppers a lesson and defend their decision to shop at Starbucks?

It's my punctuation that's wrong. They called the people her team of midwives. My use of the word literal is to imply they literally called these people midwives who I think have very little training to be midwives. The reason I went back is I agreed in my gut with your reasoning. I felt there should be a real midwife. However if there was People left the woman out. My memory is the exact punctuation was a team of midwives----Michelle, Guinn, and her two sisters Jana and Jinger---, but I'm not looking exactly at what it said and my memory on punctuation is limited.

People magazine update: Okay so when people on this forum were shocked that Jana and Jinger were midwives and that Jessa's team included other midwives, I felt like I must have read the article wrong. I felt for sure there must have been a real midwife, and I missed her name since by not reading the article carefully enough. I did think Jana might be sort of a midwife since she went with Jill for a lot of the same training. I felt Jinger might have started training along the same lines of her sisters, since she's independent and it's one of the only careers open to Duggar girls. But to be sure I went to the drug store and reread the article particularly the parts I was sure I was mistaken about. I couldn't find mention of another midwife. The people I listed who were present at the birth, (Michelle, Guinn, Jana, and Jinger) were there. However they were (to my shock) described as "a team of midwives" (literally quoting People). Michelle is a midwife! Because she gave birth 19 times?! Guinn is a midwife? IT literally said a team of Midwives, Michelle, Guinn, Jana and Jinger arrived to help her [Jessa]. It also helpfully explained who the people mentioned are to those just joining in. At one point Jessa wanted to go to hospital and get an epidural, but some of her "team" said things like "You don't really want to do that do you?" and she decided not to. I was so angry when I read this I was literally hopping mad. How dare Michelle!

I'm not explaining it well. She had other midwives present I believe. Those people I mentioned were part of her birth team, but I don't think they're the whole birth team. I think she had other medical care there. Jinger was surprise. Jana had much of the same training as Jill, because Jana was Jill's accountability partner when she was midwife training before her marriage.Possibly Jana chose to continue training to be a midwife and needs an accountability partner who is now Jinger, since you know they can never do anything alone and on their own.

I was at Barnes and Noble and I read the Ben and Jessa article in People while I was there. For those who haven't read it or don't plan to, here are some highlights: Jessa was in labor for more than 48 hours meaning her entire birthday. The facts checking team at People is too lazy to figure out which child Jessa is. It said she is the fourth of 19. She is in fact the 5th of 19. The name was never revealed in the article. It was all about the labor and delivery. Ben was at her side almost constantly during the birth. (Everything I've read including here makes it sound like he did better than Josh did when Michael was born.) Her birth team included Michelle, Guinn, Jana and Jinger. Jinger and Jana were both listed as some sort of midwife (maybe lay mid-wife? I forget?) and present at the birth. It's the first time I've seen Jinger listed as a midwife of any kind or seen her show any interest in midwifery. Maybe it's the only profession for Duggar girls. Jessa was only in the hospital overnight. Jessa was quoted at the end saying "At one point in labor I told Ben I didn't want anymore kids." Obviously we'll have more kids but "At the time I meant it." Jessa The next challenge after giving birth is picking a name. As mentioned the article never mentioned the name they picked. I probably could have read it a little more carefully. I did skip some of the gory birth details, and they were a lot. It also mentioned the scandals a little at the beginning and showed some of her Instagram picks.

What retirement home? Look at Grandma Mary!

To be fair it's not exactly my real name, but what's wrong with Temperance? ;) Also will Corrie be short for Corinthians? I like both Temperance and Gabriel. I haven't this disappointed with celebrity naming babies, since North West was born. WT.. Actually it's funny I said wtf and then made a Jessa Pout face without thinking about it. (As seen in like every selfie she's ever taken) They could have gone with just about anything else and I would have defended it. I will surnames are trend, but generally they're sleeker cuter ones like Taylor. I will say hot kids can pull off anything so maybe that was what Benessa was thinking. As for Preacher names, the only 19th century I remember hearing about is Lyman Beecher (Harriet Beecher Stowe's father). Are they going to stick with old-fashioned and modern Preacher names? Somebody has said Jessa could end up like Tammy Faye Baker, so Baker for another one? Also I will say at least they didn't name it Gothard. I hope they never get to that one. Also at least Elliott is nice middle name. I also wish they had just gone with Quincy. I don't get the whole pregnancy name then real name thing. (I had a friend who did it.) The first girl will be Modest Seewald. It did seem like Jess had her eyes on an M name. (Although in one post I picked Zelah for a girl. No final answer.) I also wonder if Gabriel was the name Jessica picked for her nephew and maybe her first-born son. Wouldn't surprise me. Spurgeon is cute. Still making a Jessa pout about the name.

I thought it was Jill and Joy who were until DD and now it's Jana and Joy. I think Jana and Jill were thrown together, because as the oldest two the bulk of the work fell on them.

I just have to say that most internet rumors about celebrity baby names almost always point to the grandparents' (of the baby) names. Especially if the parents (like JB and Michelle) are famous, because naming after grand/parents is an easy guess, and almost always people are wrong. (Exceptions being the royal children, and even that people weren't one-hundred percent right.) I have no idea what the name is, but I think Michael would seem to them a bit too common as a first name for baby Seewald. Bam Bam was a character on the Flintstones. He was a male baby/toddler character. I'm not sure how the Flintstones references started here though. Maybe since the Duggars believe humans lived with dinosaurs like the Flintstones did?

Yes. That joke has been all over the internet probably since they became famous.

Most store-bought cakes have frosting on less it's pound cake, or angel food, etc. At home we sometimes do the whipped cream and berries. Also at least around here there are cakes with fruit on them, especially in season. In general we (in my experience) don't eat a lot of Marzipan and I've never see it on a cake. But we do do candy. Usually Hershey's. Most wedding cakes have a ton of frosting. Most weddings have cake. Ice cream isn't as traditional.

If Jessa has the baby today, I'm sure she'll say it's a birthday gift from Jesus/God. They would definitely know if it was twins and it's not. I have no idea whether it's a girl or boy. I'm not sure they know. I know a lot of people who waited to find out the gender at birth. I could see this as way to show some individually that would not be totally condemned by JB and Michelle. The first scandal broke in May, I remember because Jill's labor VSE aired Mother's Day week. Not sure boy or girl, but I will stick with my prediction of the baby being born today November 4th on Jessa's birthday. Either Ben Jr. for a boy or Zelah Grace Lauren for a girl.

Actually I meant she would care less about her daughter's looked and more about their souls/character, etc.

My father is taller than Derrick and neither of his daughters is close to as tall as he is. Jill seems less concerned with appearance and more concerned with souls.

If Jill was my sister and I witnessed up close what that was like, I might want to speed up labor too. Also it reminds me of how they scheduled her wedding. Today is their wedding anniversary. They scheduled her wedding for the last Saturday before her 22nd birthday. They wanted all the press about the wedding to say Ben was 19 and Jessa was 21. If she gives birth before Wednesday, she'll be 22 and he'll be 20. Wednesday is her birthday (and my guess for when she gives birth). My guess is they're very conscientious about her being older than Ben. I'm not sure whether it's a boy or a girl.

In the picture of Jordyn, she looks like she's wearing pajamas. Considering that her parents made a deal with the film crew that their children never be filmed in pajamas, maybe the reason is their pajamas include pants. The pineapple looks small to me. I guessed this before, but my random guess is that the baby will born on Jessa's birthday.

I like #10. If they do a cross over, my only wish is that everyone in GG mixes up the brothers and calls Sam Dean and Dean Sam. Then they correct them, and everyone says "But I thought he was Dean."

Jessa is five foot two. I was basing this on my personal experience with my aunt, my grandmother, and some of my cousins who were/are all five foot two or under. The folk theory is the baby has less far to travel if the mother is shorter. It could be nonsense. I'm now thinking Jessa will give birth on her birthday (no real reason just because).

Ironically, I think that one of the reasons is that Derick likes Jill, and I don't that that J'chelle likes her very much. I also think that despite all their blathering about Jesus, she is put-off by his actual desire to be a missionary. I think that J'chelle is attracted to aggressive men. JB, for all his aw-shucks good-ole-boy BS, is aggressive, hostile, and controlling. Ben also seems to be aggressive -- although he seems to channel his aggression into working out -- and J'chelle can barely keep her hands off of him. I also think that Derick doesn't suck up to her as much as she expects. He seems to be perfectly happy admiring his own mother and thinking his own family is fine without fawing all over her and how amazing she is for having produced so many blessings. I agree with the last part about Derrick being attached to his own mother and all. Also his own family. As for Michelle, she was a cheerleader in high school and she seems to me always to still sort be a cheerleader in the most stereotyped, Glee-type way (and I admit that most of the cheerleaders I know personally were nothing like the stereotypes) . She likes jocks and popular kids and is more disdainful towards geeks and outcasts. If she likes Jessa and Ben better than Jill and Derrick, maybe its because they like to work out (jocks) and Jill and Derrick are a little more nerdy.

I think what Guinn meant as a famous person Jessa would have more options than her son and she was always allegedly the prettiest of the Duggar girls. When Guinn met Jessa, she said something, "Oh I know who you are." (And from that, it sounded like Ben talked about her quite a bit, like teenagers sometimes do.) I always thought Ben had a crush on Jessa long before they met in person. I think that he knew her and the family from the press or the tv show or something. The Seewalds seem a little more mainstream than the Duggars so they watch a little more television, and the Seewalds probably had a short list of approved television shows, which 19K&C would be a big part of. If he had picked out Jessa from the tv show as his favorite or his crush, then Guinn's comments make more sense. The show isn't that big a deal to many mainstream people, but in the fundie world the Duggars would be A-list celebrities. Also Guinn might thought Jessa would prefer someone more grown-up.

Also Grandma Mary representing an older generation. But where is Jinger?

So I thought this episode was pretty good. On the life support issue: I know people who could do what Scarlett did and would have stayed strong behind her. I also know people would have sided with Deacon and been even more angry at Scarlett. I'm glad these two have made up; they need each other. I really liked Luke in the episode. He is possibly the most responsible person on the show. He called Rayna that night and she heard it from him. The show should realize every time they put a bunch of the young guys together; it's good. Tonight it was Kevin, Will, and Gunnar and I was laughing when they tried to pick up that girl. I hope that's just a one night stand for Gunnar. Avery and Juliette are both a mess. I can understand why Avery thinks he deserve custody, but going for the nuclear option (totally cutting her out of their daughter's life) does not seem like a good idea. The child will want to know about her mother, and Juliette needs some contact with her daughter. Rayna had the best line of the night (while scolding Maddie for performing without permission). I can't remember what she said exactly but it was "If you think that Juliette has a good life, then we have bigger problems than getting up on that stage." Rayna and Layla were not my favorite pairing of the night, but they were getting along. I want to see Layla be a star (and with Jeff.)

Of the three us, one of my friends said the Space Needle. My other friend pointed out Michael won, because he gave up trying to beat Matt and was trying to beat Sally for second place. At FJ, he had 17,600 and Matt had 17,800. He realized Matt would bet most of it try to beat him and since Matt had more money he couldn't catch Matt unless Matt got it wrong. So instead of betting it all or almost it all, he bet the most he could and still beat Sally if she bet it all (she did) and then got it right (none of them did). Sally had 7,600, which she bet all of. If she gotten it right, she would have had 15,200. Michael's final score was 15,201, so he bet 2399. Meanwhile Matt bet almost all of it to make sure Michael didn't try to top him and he end up with very little (I don't remember exactly, but my guess is 199.) While I think Matt was a good sport about Au vs Al I don't think that extra 1600 could have saved him. It would still have been very close and come down to Final Jeopardy, which they all got wrong and if they kept the same betting patterns, then Matt still would have had less than Michael. Michael played well and he got the last Double Jeopardy which really helped him out.

I really enjoyed this episode. I thought Rayna was at her best, as were Jeff, Maddie, Emily, Avery, Gunnar, Zoey, and Scarlet. I loved watching Jeff with Layla. And this exchange was great: Jeff: "Thanks for finally treating my client with the respect she deserves..." Rayna: "Shut up, Jeff" My other favorite line was this exchange between Rayna and Daphne "you don't want to come? the (rock star forgot his name) is going to be there. He's your favorite singer." D "He's Maddie's favorite singer." That line rang so true to me it made me smile. I like seeing Gunnar be there for Scarlet ... and Caleb. I like seeing Scarlett's friend Zoey come to support Scarlett. I was proud Deacon went to a meeting and met with his new sponsor (although I wish they brought Coleman back). Juliette is a mess. She needs to fire her best friend, who didn't tell her her baby was sick. If she led with "your daughter is in the hospital", Juliette would be there. That woman (the friend) would have said the same thing if a phone solicitor trying to sell a free wireless home security system called. "Some guy wants to talk to you." "It's not a work thing." Also sad to see Juliette be the new Judy Garland. I thought it was illegal to give some that many drugs without serious medical conditions. At least Avery is getting a new job. I hope it's a success for him and Highway 65.

I don't know if the Bates have their own thread some place else, but I had something to say about the Bates and picked this thread. So for those people who don't follow politics, Boehner (Speaker of the House) resigned. Now the republicans are trying to elect a new Speaker of the House (of Representatives). There are (according to last night's Rachel Maddow) 25 candidates and counting. Later I learned when googling the Bates family is that Alyssa Bates's father-in-law Daniel Webster (I didn't know that was his name, but that's his name) is running for speaker of the house. It does seem like he is a long shot.