SueB

Hollywood Babylon -- Tall Tales -- Born Under a Bad Sign -- 39 - In My Time of Dying 36 - What Is and What Should Never Be 13 - Hollywood Babylon 10 - Nightshifter 06- Tall Tales 05 - Crossroad Blues 01 - Born Under a Bad Sign Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2 Folsom Prison Blues

Obfuscation. Makes its slightly less obvious it's a hint if they throw in some chaff. I'd pay real money to ask Carver at Comic-Con if Gadreel was already a plan. I'd contend he had to have something up his sleeve when he had Cas say Sam was already damaged beyond standard angel healing. Angel possession (that Dean trusted) makes sense at the macro level IMO. And I'm always happy being an optimist. Hopefully I'm not setting up unrealistic expectations. I think avoiding expectations on specific storylines is best. I just am optimistic they've got a plan, that they'll surprise me a bit, and it'll be a fun watch.

I think "another angel" was intentional foreshadowing by Carver regarding Gadreel. And it comes across clunky because it's a bit of a force-fit.

Well DDD, I waited til today to vote and unfortunately it just comes down to each episode compared to the others in the list. From these FINE episodes, my least favorite are Tall Tales -- Born Under a Bad Sign -- Hollywood Babylon -- 40 - In My Time of Dying 38 - What Is and What Should Never Be 17 - Hollywood Babylon 11 - Nightshifter 08 - Tall Tales 07 - Crossroad Blues 01 - Born Under a Bad Sign Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2 Folsom Prison Blues

Fair points. I think it's because it's disturbing that I don't watch it much. I vote later and will let you know if I've had a rewatch.

I've been ruthlessly downvoting for days -- Sam as Meg was good but it's just not a favorite compared to others. Can you inspire me to change my mind?

All excellent points. Especially -- if they can feel pain they they must feel pleasure. And Ruby's meatsuit was warm when occupied. So Dean may get physical pleasure out of sex -- which says to me he'll be hitting that hard. (Oy, no dirty pun intended). But I still think the partner's reaction will matter to him -- perhaps differently than before. And if Ruby enjoyed fries, then I can see Dean back on pies and cheeseburgers. Then again "pie" was a Mom thing. I could see him not evoking the Mom-comfort memory of pies. Alcohol, OTOH, I expect to be imbibed in copious amounts.

Hi, my name is SueB and I'm easy. NO, not that way. I'm easy when it comes to falling in love with the characters and seeing the best in them. For me, one of the highlights of S7/S8 was when Sam was Fever babbling about finally burning the evil out of himself. To me this felt REAL. This felt like Sam being totally truthful. Sam's the intellect saying that he doesn't feel guilty because he spent 100 years in hell never rang true. But I don't consider it out of character, I consider it part and parcel of who is Sam Winchester. And Sam has a GREAT capacity to delude himself. Where Dean just beats the shit out of himself for everything, Sam rationalizes some whoppers and keeps moving on. So Sam rationalized he had served his time and thus he should not feel guilty. He compartmentalizes well and feeling guilty about all the deaths related to Lucifer Rising? That goes into the corner of "don't go in there." But when Tracy reminds him of it in S9, it's clear he has ZERO defense. If he was truly "over it", he'd have something to say. Other examples of him compartmentalizing (IMO): - Not hunting for Dean - Sam literally couldn't deal with it so he runs away and decides he did something HEALTHY. And he's going to stick with that attitude even with Dean bitching at him. Intellectually he's not wrong -- he truly thought Dean was dead and NOW was the time to leave the life. But at the end of S8, the guilt he's feeling over failing Dean is part of what makes him ready to die. Sam was in a bad state mentally at that moment but his brother's logic (which was really shitty regarding why it was okay to not close the gate) didn't matter. He was feeling forgiven and loved by Dean so he did what Dean wanted him to do. - Not scratching at the wall Death made - at first he's gung-ho to fix what evil he did. Then he gets a peak over the wall and yep -- he's on the no-scratching train. It was only Cas breaking the wall that caused him to confront his time in Hell. And only the threat to Dean and Bobby that made him pseudo-functional. - Him being okay with his own brand of crazy - he spent two-thirds of a season seeing Halucifer and ignoring him thru the hand pain -technique. Now that's some mighty good "world-view" control. Up until he let Luci in again (i.e. slipped), he was pretty functional. - Him saying he was in a "good place" at the start of S9... until he couldn't feel physically good again. And then doubt creeps in. He starts to wonder, AGAIN, if he's just wrong somehow. That he is intrinsically never going to feel right. (Rock and a Hard Place). - Saying he and Dean could work together but not be brothers. What kind of bullshit is that? That right there is a guy who IMO knows how to compartmentalize. He knows how to take a bad topic and not deal with it. From Sam's perspective he was seriously violated and lied to -- AGAIN -- by his brother. But I think S9 WAS different. He was openly compartmentalizing. He wasn't actually ignoring his pain -- he was just letting it lie while continuing on. And this is reaffirmed in 9.23 when he essentially says 'let's do what we should do and not fight right now'. I don't think he's forgiven Dean at that moment, but he knows they need to move on. Now when Dean is dead - AGAIN - I think that was Sam dealing with what Dean meant to him. If that "no brothers" thing was true, he'd have burned Dean's body and moved on. But of course the "no brothers" thing wasn't true and he never actually believed that compartmentalization. So of course Sam is going to do something to get Dean back. So... what can I say? I love Sam. I see a man who has a history of using his intellect to create ways to compartmentalize his pain. In the past he did a good job of believing it himself until it comes crashing down. And when it came crashing down we saw a serious amount of self-loathing and hopelessness. But I took his grim determination at the end of S9 to actually be a good thing. He wasn't compartmentalizing his pain. He was hitting it head on. And not the out-of-control Mystery Spot or lost-summer-with-Ruby pain. Nope, this is a steely eyed Sam who is in pain but has faith in his ability to force Crowley to help him. Even if that doesn't work, I don't expect despair. I'm confident he'll work til he solves the problem. And icing on the cake? If when he gets Dean back they deal with the unresolved Angel-possession issue.

Hollywood Babylon -- Born Under a Bad Sign -- Folsom Prison Blues -- Even though I shuffled Folsom Prison Blues off this mortal coil, I'd like to offer it some praise for really delightful moments: - Dean: quickly earning the coin of the realm (cigarettes), truly feeling bad for insulting Tiny (CLIFF!), "I think I'm adorable" (why yes, you are). - Sam: the sight-gag of the bigger guy in his cell and the look on Sam's face, his heart-felt "my brother's an idiot" (I just love that truthful moment), and the look on his face when he realizes how comfortable Dean is in prison. Plus--"Green Onions"! 42 - In My Time of Dying 41 - What Is and What Should Never Be 22- Hollywood Babylon 17- Nightshifter 16 - Tall Tales 07 - Crossroad Blues 02 - Born Under a Bad Sign Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2 Folsom Prison Blues

What little bits we saw from S8/S9 demons had killing high up on their list of "yay". I've never quite got the whole eating thing for demons. Crowley clearly enjoys scotch but also promises "entrails for everyone". And Lilith ate BABIES. Then there's Cain who was sitting down to a meal which included lots of corn on the cob. Finally human blood addict Crowley loved pizza, sex, and chick-flick movies. BUT since Crowley existed for months in the dungeon with no food -- I'd say it's a safe bet demons don't NEED food but they can enjoy it. As Crowley specifically mentioned Dean not eating the cheeseburger as a "sign", then I think it's important to look at that as a take-away (since we were setting up S10 at that moment). At the moment it happened Dean had already been yakking up blood because he wasn't killing. So his body was being effected. Now add the no-hunger. COULD be because he had an upset tummy or could be because he really didn't need food anymore. They could go either way but the "doesn't need food" is what I think Crowley was hoping for. In other words, Dean's body was in "prep" mode for being a demon. What does this have to do with intense sex? Well the food part is just an indicator that human biological needs and demon needs are different. Is Demon!Dean riding Dead!Dean's meatsuit? If the meatsuit is dead then will he not be getting any feeling off of it. If true, then sex would not be physically satisfying -- only the emotional component of connection. Without love (and a "fling" implies sans-love), then does he "get" something off of HER reaction? Demons seemed to enjoy other's pain (like the Crossroad demon taunting Dean). Maybe it's not just pain - maybe it's intense feelings. So maybe Dean gets a rush from giving the woman ... a rush (if you know what I mean)? Maybe it makes him feel more alive? Of course he could get a rush from treating her bad. But it seems to me that's less of a "hit". In other words, they could easily go the pain route but pain from torture seems like a quicker "hit" for a demon than emotional torture from non-consensual sex. IDK. I guess I'm just spitballin' now but the question is "what does Demon!Dean get out of sex"? I would contend that unlike Souless!Sam who had biological satisfaction, Demon!Dean is getting something emotional from it. Either his partner's fear or intense feelings. There's a certain pain/pleasure aspect to sex he might be taping into. Maybe this is an alternative to killing? Just throwing out ideas. I suspect the 12-yr old mentality will rule vice anything sophisticated but I wanted to think it through a bit.

Folsom Prison Blues -- Born Under A Bad Sign -- Hollywood Babylon -- 43 - In My Time of Dying 43 - What Is and What Should Never Be 25- Hollywood Babylon 19- Nightshifter 15 - Tall Tales 09 - Crossroad Blues 07 - Born Under a Bad Sign 03 - Folsom Prison Blues Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2

Thanks for sharing DDD? -- Hollywood Babylon -- Born Under a Bad Sign -- Folsom Prison Blues 43 - In My Time of Dying 42 - What Is and What Should Never Be 27- Hollywood Babylon 25 - Nightshifter 20 - Tall Tales 15 - Crossroad Blues 13 - Born Under a Bad Sign 8 - Folsom Prison Blues Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2

It's not. Clarissa is a long-time reporter. She used to work at TVOvermind. See her interview of Jensen Ackles from last year here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0z-zRgptLY More importantly, if you go to the CW Press site and look at the "About" for Supernatural, the 5th paragraph (below the S9 picture) is word for word what she put out regarding S10. http://www.cwtvpr.com/the-cw/shows/supernatural/about Bottom line: It's legit. But the CW Press site is not a fantastic source of data so I would not read anything into any particular wording. As for Matt Mitovich, he's and Super Scooper Micheal Ausiello are the most legit spoiler sources out there in TV land from my experience. I have no doubt he got a direct quote out of Carver or someone on the show staff. So, unlike the CW Press site, the exact words are probably intentional. Of course Tippi could be right and "intense" may mean we get to see Dean's ankle. So... what the staff thinks is a big deal may mean very little.

TVLine spoiler for EP2-- and Dean having a one night intense sex with a waitress is a sign of being demonic? Sounds like a regular Tues night to me. Although their track record for these scenes is kinda 'meh'.

S10 Press release: Source:http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s2e5q1 So Dean disappears from the Bunker straight away. That tells me: 1) Dean most likely knows he's a demon 2) Sam does NOT know immediately he's a demon -- though I bet he finds out either by the end of the first episode or the second. Other: - rouge angels still on the loose....hmmm

In darkest night, a desperate man rails He'll trade his light rather than fail But sweet victory still awaits As a demon meets his fate With brave family on hand Carries on the Righteous Man -- Ode to All Hell Breaks Loose, Pt2 Ah well, it was inevitable, but I did so love that episode. Hollywood Babylon -- Born Under a Bad Sign -- Crossroad Blues + 45 - In My Time of Dying 44 - What Is and What Should Never Be 31- Hollywood Babylon 28 - Nightshifter 23 - Tall Tales 19 - Crossroad Blues 17 - Born Under a Bad Sign 12 - Folsom Prison Blues Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2

-- Hollywood Babylon -- Born Under A Bad Sign + All Hell Breaks Loose, Pt 2 46 - What Is and What Should Never Be 46 - In My Time of Dying 32 - Hollywood Babylon 28 - Nightshifter 24 - Tall Tales 19 - Born Under a Bad Sign 18 - Crossroad Blues 14 - Folsom Prison Blues 03 - All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2 Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects -- Hollywood Babylon -- Born Under A Bad Sign + All Hell Breaks Loose, Pt 2 46 - What Is and What Should Never Be 46 - In My Time of Dying 32 - Hollywood Babylon 28 - Nightshifter 24 - Tall Tales 19 - Born Under a Bad Sign 18 - Crossroad Blues 14 - Folsom Prison Blues 03 - All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2 Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects

Hollywood Babylon -- Born Under a Bad Sign -- All Hell Breaks Loose, Pt 2 + 47 - In My Time of Dying 47 - What Is and What Should Never Be 32 - Nightshifter 31 - Hollywood Babylon 27 - Tall Tales 24 - Born Under a Bad Sign 19 - Crossroad Blues 16 - Folsom Prison Blues 06 - All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2 Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects

The more I think of it, the more I think I'm going to ignore that line in What's Up Tiger Mommy as LOLCanon. One line which counters dozens of others is not enough IMO. Chastity counselor (previously a porn-star). I think Carver has the big picture but doesn't control the details nor the path to get from Point A to Point B. As said before, I think this will be the third act of the three act play and we'll see the three acts at the end but because the path was not obvious it'll look more contrived than it needed to be. JMO YMMV. Demon!Dean - I expect him to have a soul. I don't expect him to be angst-ful (at least not at the start). I think the vampire story being complete in one episode is different than this arc. I expect Sam to ultimately be the one who saves him with Cas support. That last may be wishful thinking but the setup is pretty obvious.

I'm with you DittyDotDot -- I couldn't vote against Usual Suspects. Hollywood Babylon -- Born Under a Bad Sign -- All Hell Brakes Loose, Pt 2 + (yes, I will drag our feet kicking and screaming on this one... Dean's speech, the crossroad's deal, his conversation w/ Bobby... nope nope nope... not giving up easy on this one) 49 - In My Time of Dying 49 - What Is and What Should Never Be 35 - Nightshifter 31 - Hollywood Babylon 30 - Born Under a Bad Sign 31 - Tall Tales 21 - Crossroad Blues 18 - Folsom Prison Blues 7 - All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2 Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1 The Usual Suspects

The state of Dean's soul is my number one question. Which means I won't get an answer anytime soon. But I'll just throw this out there ... for anyone going to ComicCon... PLEASE ASK ANY OF THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS: 1) Did Dean stop sleeping after he got the Mark of Cain? 2) Demon soul confusion: are demons twisted souls? If so, why was Crowley told he didn't have one to bid for the Angel Tablet in "What's Up Tiger Mommy?" 3) How did Bobby get his soul back from Crowley if Gavin didn't die? Now they are not likely to answer any of these but I can't ask what I really want to ask because I KNOW they won't answer anything directly about Dean's soul, Cas' grace, or Sam's plans. Bonus question: 1) It seemed like Suzy regretted breaking her vow based on her conversations with Honor, did Dean realize that? Was this a plot point?

$10 says "demon" to me.

Born Under a Bad Sign -- All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2 + Hollywood Babylon -- 53 - In My Time of Dying 52 - What Is and What Should Never Be 33 - Nightshifter 32 - Born Under a Bad Sign 32 - Hollywood Babylon 31 - Tall Tales 23 - Crossroad Blues 22 - Folsom Prison Blues 13 - All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2 04 - The Usual Suspects Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1

Hollywood Babylon -- Born Under a Bad Sign -- All Hell Breaks Loose, Pt 2 + 53 - In My Time of Dying 52 - What Is and What Should Never Be 36 - Born Under a Bad Sign 33 - Hollywood Babylon 31 - Nightshifter 29 - Tall Tales 27 - Crossroad Blues 22 - Folsom Prison Blues 15 - All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 2 06 - The Usual Suspects Moved on: Roadkill No Exit Heart Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things Croatoan Everybody Loves a Clown Playthings Simon Said Hunted Houses of the Holy Bloodlust All Hell Breaks Loose Pt 1

I don't recall them EVER skipping out on responding to a summoning spell. He was delayed while working with Dick Roman. Now he said Dick Roman had him in a Devil's Trap but was he still in the trap when they were negotiating? So... I think there is precedence for SOME flexibility on timeliness that I'll even suggest it might be tied to power. Like a lower level cross-roads demon pops in pretty dang quickly but perhaps Crowley can stroll in within a longer time window. But even look at the cross-roads demons -- they take the time to put on a meatsuit that appeals to the mark (note Dean's are always dark haired beauties). And it appears that more than just the summoned demon gets a clue they are being summoned as the masseuse knew a Winchester was calling Crowley. So the rules I think have precedence for him showing up late AFTER he wakes up Dean. But I don't think he can give it a pass altogether. Will we see it on-screen? IDK. He could stiff him with "buzz off" but I think they'd want to show us the confrontation because it's good drama. I think we are closer to the S4 finale where we will see Crowley's speech to Dean as the start of S10 like we saw the last few second of S4 at the start of S5. Regarding witches: - I generally find them skeevy. I'm with Dean on that -- too many entrails and body fluids with that lot. On the other hand, what witches have they ACTUALLY defeated? Consulting the Super-wiki on witches http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=Witches the times Sam/Dean personally defeated them were pretty damned hard/limited: - Shrtiga - YES - iron rods only at the moment of feeding - Malleus Maleficarum - NO - Witches killed by the demon (Tammi) who they sold their soul too - Dean killed the demon with Ruby's knife - Don - MAYBE - it sure seems like they killed him with a normal gun (before he became Samhain the Demon who Sam exorcised). Perhaps a normal witch can be killed with any old gun but you usually can't get the drop on them - Jay (Criss Angel) - killed by his own knife The rest are either not witches or not killed. So a witch would be pretty hard to kill. And Crowley has successfully used witchcraft on them before. So... IDK, a centuries old witch would be a difficult opponent. But I thought a normal-variety witch is tied to a demon and with Crowley as "King of Hell", I'm not sure how that works. In short, witch is not a bad guess --Scottish ties to Crowley, Crowley ties to witches. "Elegant" frankly suggests someone older than 40 -- because to be on the CW, be sexually attractive as a woman, be over 30 AND be a recurring character there has to be something unusual about you. And "elegant" seems like a CW-acceptable substitute for the usual under-30 nubile character. Add power-base, and yeah... witch seems to be at least one of the more likely options. Then again, what if Crowley had a sister? Dear old Mom was a witch, why wouldn't Crowley's sister (if he had one) be just as likely to pick up the family business. I know we've had our share of family-ties but bringing in Gavin kinda upset the apple cart. Maybe Crowley's sister is one of the temporal consequences of leaving Gavin alive. In which case... the family tie is actually more justified. Abaddon kicked it off with her MOL time-travel knowledge and went for the Crowley family connection. Gavin's "Aunt" could have twigged onto him and she may decide to take a run at Crowley by using two things: Gavin and Dean. Yes Dean. Come on, I can't be the only one that thinks an elegant woman might turn Demon Dean's head and fuel his potentially unleashed hedonism (which was barely leashed before he became a demon). And if she can get Dean on team Rowena plus Gavin -- she could have some juice. JUST COMPLETE SPECULATION. Feel free to ignore this one entirely. As I've said before, I don't get too tied to these pre-episode speculations because I don't want mis-aligned expectations to take away show enjoyment but I'll leave my contribution as follows: - witch: I'd give that a reasonable chance - related to Crowley: reasonable chance - tries to ally w/ Dean in conflict with Crowley: just a suggestion but worth a thought I think.