SueB

You are correct, I will make that adjustment in my calculation. Best thing about Ghostfacers: actual swearing and the MOTW was f*cking CREEPY AS SHIT. That's all I got. IA BTW, I think we've got the right final grouping. Now for the Sohpie's choices. I'm going for "evening things out". Sort of like when you come across a ragged edge on a pan of cake and you kinda "even things out" with the knife. -- Mystery Spot -- Bad Day at Black Rock -- Dream a Little Dream of Me 36 - Mystery Spot 27 - A Very Supernatural Christmas 25 - Jus in Bello 24 - Bad Day at Black Rock 20 - Dream a Little Dream of Me 10 - No Rest for the Wicked Mauled by a Hellhound: Bedtime Stories Malleus Maleficarum Red Sky at Morning The Magnificent Seven Sin City Long Distance Call Time is on My Side Fresh Blood The Kids Are Alright Ghostfacers

I would categorize it as "grief driven folly" rather than punishment. He did it. He KNOWS he did it. Sure Crowley tricked him but if he KNEW Crowley was manipulating him when he was at the house with Cain -- because the flashback showed Crowley smiling behind the "shaking" tea cup. Cain called it "Impulsive but brave." That's our Dean. It has paid off for him on SO many occasions but that's when he had a reliable partner (Sam). Not his King of Hell bestie. I still love that moment BTW -- Crowley describing them as "besties" and Dean saying "NOT HELPING." Hee. Other indicators that they will be holding Dean (vice Sam) responsible for Dean's demon state: - Carver said Dean made a "choice" to face Metatron alone. By punching out Sam he broke the rule of them being better as a team. I was surprised by that because frankly, with Metatron (like Abaddon), Sam would have been so easy to take hostage. But Carver made a point that Dean's culpable for chosing to act in a solitary fashion. - They are given Sam a dark arc too -- with whatever it is he does in the first couple of episodes. If they were going to be bashing Sam for Dean's demonocity (I just made that word up .. I like it but my apologies to the English language), I think they wouldn't need to heap on questionable acts. Further, they are once again separating Cas from Sam (and Dean). Which means Sam has no-one to pull him back if he goes too far. I'd LIKE to be mad that Cas and Sam didn't notice Dean racing headlong into disaster at the end of S9 but I can't. The distance last season, while supported with plot, was still pretty transparently designed to isolate Dean. So...I'm having a hard time blaming the characters. Plus they gave us enough to let Sam and Cas get a bit of a pass. Specifically, Cas IMMEDIATELY noticed there was something wrong with Dean and called him on it. But then he was swept up in the Angel story. Sam was pretty fried by Dean's choice with Gadreel but he still showed concern and Dean was hiding shit. So... between the spoilers and the way they drove Dean's isolation w/ plot, I'll be surprised if anyone (but perhaps Demon!Dean and Crowley twisting the knife) crabs at them about not being there for him. Ah Crowley ... so we have he's in over his head and calls for help. I'm convinced he calls Moose. He's got enough time observing the Winchesters in their natural habitat. That's the smart move. Perhaps this is how Sam finally catches up w/ Dean. But what IS Crowley going to do if he hand Dean back to Sam? They've made him a regular. I don't think it's just so they can guarantee Mark Sheppard's availability. What will be his arc if the bros are riding down the highway again after the first few episodes?

I'm 100% convinced Dean and Sam jointly ended the Apocalypse with "the power of love" (that Dean mocked in Point of No Return).

-- Bad Day At Black Rock + A Very Supernatural Christmas -- Ghostfacers 38 - Mystery Spot 27 - Jus in Bello 27 - A Very Supernatural Christmas 25 - Bad Day at Black Rock 23 - Dream a Little Dream of Me 08 - No Rest for the Wicked 01 - Ghostfacers Mauled by a Hellhound: Bedtime Stories Malleus Maleficarum Red Sky at Morning The Magnificent Seven Sin City Long Distance Call Time is on My Side Fresh Blood The Kids Are Alright

Indeed. I think both Jensen and Jared have the ability to draw a line now if they choose. I think they will let the writers do their thing and trust them to craft the story -- even if it's waaaaayyyyy out there. But if they feel they are doing something OOC, they'd stop it. Something odd was said at the Nerdist panel -- Mark Sheppard looked at Jensen and asked if "you'd" pay for it (to go to England and do a SuperWhoLock crossover). I know they are NOT producers so I don't think he has a financial vote on the show (except an obligation as a director to come in under budget). But there was also a moment where one of the writers (sorry, can't remember who) implied Jensen (and presumably Jared) was "their boss". Add this to the bit where Jensen called Bob Singer about adjusting a key speech and Singer was "do it" without hesitation. I just think Jared and Jensen wield a lot of creative power IF they choose to exercise it. So... the key is whether or not Jensen would say that rape is OOC even for Demon!Dean. My suspicion is yes. There's nothing carefree about rape. And he certainly doesn't need to force the issue with most women. I doubt Dean would set his mind on someone not interested. It just wouldn't be worth his time. It doesn't develop the story any -- it's just shock-value awful and really debatable in terms of action for the demonic version of the character. So, I just don't see it happening.

A Very Supernatural Christmas + Bad Day at Black Rock -- Ghostfacers-- 38 - Mystery Spot 29 - Jus in Bello 28 - A Very Supernatural Christmas 27 - Bad Day at Black Rock 22 - Dream a Little Dream of Me 08 - No Rest for the Wicked 06 - Ghostfacers Mauled by a Hellhound: Bedtime Stories Malleus Maleficarum Red Sky at Morning The Magnificent Seven Sin City Long Distance Call Time is on My Side Fresh Blood The Kids Are Alright

I think we are not actually going to like Demon!Dean -- so being icky is within the realm of what they might write IMO. This is something to be fixed. Just like they went "too far" it seemed with Soulless Sam trying to kill Bobby. We have to want Dean to NOT be a demon. Jensen said it's NOT funny. So, I'm gearing up for "ugly". Dean has been a little more laid back since Emma (you know, the monster daughter Sam killed because Dean couldn't... yeah, I'm a bit bitter that was never mentioned again). But if you look at his one night stands since Emma was born he's had very little and even mentioned the episode afterwords he was going to start being more careful. In S8, with the exception of being flustered over Aaron pretending to hit on him, Dean didn't even talk about having random hookups. Plenty of Japanese cartoon porn tho. In S9 he mentions his "dates" ended when the singles ran out (i.e. he's paying for dances, not sex?). Then he has sex with the chastity counselor. Now on the one hand that's kinda Amazon-woman stupid because he had sex in the middle of a case and they are researching sex-related disappearances. OTOH, he apparently "knew her work" enough that her being a supernatural monster seemed less likely. So... I can see that as "safe sex" -- supernaturally speaking. Later, post Kevin's death (as he's on his downward spiral), he's giving an eye to a waitress and Sam talks about him lying about his age to another waitress. So he may have started to revive his hound dog ways in the later half of S9 but not in a big way. So... Dean going on a sex bender because he doesn't care --- makes sense if you see that he had been restraining himself after the unplanned monster pregnancy. One could also argue his sexual appetites had been reduced as he reached mid-thirties. In that case, demon stamina may have fired his libido back up some. In either case, I think the audience would need to hear WHY he's sleeping around so much or something along the lines of feeling like he's 20 years old again to make the connection that being a demon changed his sexual behaviors. Otherwise, the show is really counting on us to have paid attention to Dean being less active. OR...they do a squick thing as suggested above... OR they show it takes more extremes to make him sated. Rambling now.... ETA: And I agree with your assessment of Sam's proclivities @AwesomeO4000. I was just being thrifty with words at the time.

Okay. Stop now. I can't get this image (of either Sam OR Dean out of my mind). So... I have to comment: - Sam likes to dominate IMO. - Dean likes the girl on top (only love scene where that didn't happen was the quick to cut one w/ Lisa). But will Demon!Dean have the same preferences? IDK.

-- Bad Day at Black Rock -- Ghostfacers + No Rest for the Wicked 38 - Mystery Spot 29 - A Very Supernatural Christmas 29 - Jus in Bello 28 - Bad Day at Black Rock 23 - Dream a Little Dream of Me 12 - Ghostfacers 08 - No Rest for the Wicked Mauled by a Hellhound: Bedtime Stories Malleus Maleficarum Red Sky at Morning The Magnificent Seven Sin City Long Distance Call Time is on My Side Fresh Blood The Kids Are Alright

-- Bad Day at Black Rock -- Ghostfacers + Jus in Bello 38 - Mystery Spot 30 - Bad Day at Black Rock 29 - A Very Supernatural Christmas 29 - Jus in Bello 23 - Dream a Little Dream of Me 16 - Ghostfacers 11 - No Rest for the Wicked Mauled by a Hellhound: Bedtime Stories Malleus Maleficarum Red Sky at Morning The Magnificent Seven Sin City Long Distance Call Time is on My Side Fresh Blood The Kids Are Alright

IDK...it's one thing to see them kiss when dating but a full CW-censored (so light) sex scene....nopeville for me. Too voyeuristic for my tastes (although I am certain many couldn't care less...). I think she's a good actress but I bet they are going to go less Glamour magazine model-esque. I also think that Ann Marie is a one-off character who maybe gets a little under Dean's "I don't care" skin and that's it (like she pushes him on acting tough and he snaps at her with a nasty comment). I don't expect it to be a special guest star or a big scene. I think we got that spoiler because they wanted to get DEAN SEX out into the spoiler mill for buzz sake. Jensen didn't even know who Ann Marie was when asked at Comic Con. Since they were filming EP1 and he was still in director headspace from EP3, it's not surprising that he didn't remember the fling comment from EP2. In sum, I think she's in a short scene and just another sign (like scruffy-lookin Baby, piss-people-off karaoke, bar-fighting 4 times in one ep, etc..) of Dean is a demon.

The obvious answer is that they have people "playing" Bobby, John, Ellen, Jo, etc... Not the right actor, just someone dressed up as them for the play. As for who will do the ACTUAL haunting, IDK. I'd put my money on someone who died near the theater post Heaven's gate being shut.

I have to agree, they just didn't get the song right. Anyone else think this was the CW promo department and not the usual crew who puts it together? But it's hard not to laugh at Dean screaming. Kinda gets me every time.

This... Too much.

A Very Supernatural Christmas + Bad Day at Black Rock -- Ghostfacers -- 38 - Mystery Spot 32 - Bad Day at Black Rock 31 - A Very Supernatural Christmas 30 - Jus in Bello 26 - Dream a Little Dream of Me 18 - Ghostfacers 16 - No Rest for the Wicked Mauled by a Hellhound: Bedtime Stories Malleus Maleficarum Red Sky at Morning The Magnificent Seven Sin City Long Distance Call Time is on My Side Fresh Blood The Kids Are Alright

Totally rooting for Rhonda Hurley

Well I finally caught up with this thread (since early June!). I'll sum up my perspective on the vast number of topics: - In reality, I think Kripke didn't make Chuck God until he got to Swan Song. Whether or not he intended for Chuck to have always been God, IDK, but the previous episodes are a hard fit into that retcon. So my theory.. Chuck is the Prophet Chuck and God whisked him away to happy land after Sam jumped into the pit. Then God took on the persona of Chuck as he started writing the "ending" (with the voiceover). The proof he didn't start writing until AFTER the episode was over is because he knew about the importance of the Impala. Dean had his Free Will to drive into that graveyard (really an important concept to God), thus it had to be AFTER that. - Time is fluid (like Yoda said), so Dean really went into the future BUT since Dean left the path that 2014 Dean took (the one that stayed away from Sammy), Dean will not be encountering a 2009 version of himself in this series. That made sense in my head. - Whether or not the demon blood was required for Sam to develop his powers doesn't actually matter because he apparently believes it is required. God detox'd him and he wasn't Ipecac'ing demons for all of S5 until he drank the blood in My Bloody Valentine. And whammo, powers were back strong as ever. So whether there's an actual physical connection or a mental requirement, it seems Sam needs it. - I love Bobby even when he's an ass. I ascribe his ass-hole statements to ... he's Bobby and he screws up. Glorious fanwank I know, sorry not sorry. - Totally agree that Crowley set up Dean from the get-go. Made a massive post about it back in the day on TWOP (in speculation land) but I DID expect Sammy to die, not Dean. ETA: Dean turning demon. I screamed about Dean taking on the MoC at the start as VERY BAD. Now, I'm rolling with it because .... I'm rolling with it. I have unswerving faith that Dean, OUR DEAN, will come thru it somehow. And he will exert some agency in the choice.

What is it with me and this season? Well, stepping up Darth SueB in the house, it's time for some cleaning. Fresh Blood: Sam cutting Gordon's head off with razor wire stands out as probably his most brutal kill. I liked how they showed Gordon's vampire vision. But I didn't feel bad when he died. Retrospectively, I agree with many who say -- he died but he actually wasn't wrong. Sucked to be him. The Kids Are Alright: Despite the over-the-top mini-me moments, this had some nice scenes. I really liked both Lisa and Ben and adored the little kiss at the end. After this post, I believe we are down to single +'s as we are halfway thru. Ghostfacers -- Fresh Blood -- The Kids Are Alright -- 37 - Mystery Spot 33 - Bad Day at Black Rock 29 - A Very Supernatural Christmas 29- Jus in Bello 27 - Dream a Little Dream of Me 23 - Ghostfacers 19 - No Rest for the Wicked Mauled by a Hellhound: Bedtime Stories Malleus Maleficarum Red Sky at Morning The Magnificent Seven Sin City Long Distance Call Time is on My Side Fresh Blood The Kids Are Alright

One of the interviews said we'd see a character mentioned but never seen. What about John Winchester's parents? We had the reference to his 'old man' when Dean first met Young John. I presume that this has to be John's step-dad (retcon head canon) as the show had Henry disappear when John was young. We know Henry's wife was named Millie. But beyond that there has been zero mention (other than Henry) of the Wichester side of the legacy. Any other characters mentioned, specifically, but not seen?

At a LeakyCon audio interview with @SuperWiki, Adam Glass and Robbie Thompson indicated they were working on EP12. TWELVE. That means they are past the mid-season cliffy. So, not to be maudlin, but how many episodes would they need to wrap the series. In other words, when do they need a commitment from the stars that they'll sign on? If the ratings are good in Oct/Nov then the CW (I think) is on-board. Anyone know when (what month) we heard about the J's contracts for S8-10?

'Time is on my Side' is one of those eps I rarely rewatch but there are some awesome gems. First is the lengths Sam is prepared to go to. It's scary and I personally think it's a critical insight into how much damage Sam ends up suffering with Dean's death. That Dean won't cross that line is also a key character moment. I didn't like the hasty wrap up of Bela. I wanted better for her. But that line of seeing her in hell ... And meaning it ..was very chilling. But I want to touch that, AwesomO4000! Okay, that was not supposed to sound dirty, get your minds out of the gutter folks! Hee! -- Ghostfacers -- The Kids Are Alright -- Fresh Blood 37 - Mystery Spot 31 - Bad Day at Black Rock 29 - A Very Supernatural Christmas 29- Jus in Bello 25 - Ghostfacers 25 - Dream a Little Dream of Me 19 - No Rest for the Wicked 05 - Fresh Blood 03 - The Kids Are Alright Mauled by a Hellhound: Bedtime Stories Malleus Maleficarum Red Sky at Morning The Magnificent Seven Sin City Long Distance Call Time is on My Side

These are all excellent options. Whoever gets it right should claim the title "Prophet of Chuck".

I finally got to binge-watch as many Comic-Con videos as possible. Thanks to Super-Wiki, Sweet-On-Dean, and the Winchester Family Business sites for compiling. Carver really gave out a fair amount of info. I think it's going to be a season very focused on character conflict resolution. I'm pretty impressed. Mark, of course, absolutely stone-walled any question that might remotely hint to anything in the future. He's an expert at this. But he did a nice break-down of his final speech to Dean and he thought the Lincoln Memorial (both in staging and in content) was a good analogy. Of course it's about freedom and a new day. I think we've pretty much picked over the bones of what the J's had to say. I'm still very worried that the Cas storyline is not meaty. But most importantly, I've been pondering the essential question ... what song would Dean sing to piss off a Karaoke Bar. Here's my guess: "Too Sexy" by Right Said Fred. 1) It's a ridiculous song and sums up how he's feeling 2) There's a lot of booty shaking (hinted at in the panel) 3) It'll piss off a bar in a heartbeat So...that's my speculation for the Dean Karaoke song. Anyone else have an idea?

Out of respect, I rewatched Long Distance Call since I was consistently downvoting the episode. I still disliked the horrible stereotype + flies + bleech jaw guy but the actual premise (luring with the voice of dead loved ones) was innovative. Best parts: Sammy Whammy of Puppy-Dog eyes (he was so good at getting people to talk!), "...and me?....moment's over." - nice bro-scenes. Jus In Bello ++ Time Is On My Side -- Long Distance Call -- 37 - Mystery Spot 31 - Bad Day at Black Rock 29 - A Very Supernatural Christmas 25- Jus in Bello 23 - Ghostfacers 23 - Dream a Little Dream of Me 21 - No Rest for the Wicked 09 - Fresh Blood 07 - The Kids Are Alright 03 - Time is on My Side Mauled by a Hellhound: Bedtime Stories Malleus Maleficarum Red Sky at Morning The Magnificent Seven Sin City Long Distance Call

If Kripke thought a fitting ending was to have Sam in the pit for eternity with Luci and Dean living a PTSD apple-pie life that is not a good ending for me. Dying and NOT being tortured for eternity is almost a happy ending for these two. That could be non-existence or heaven. Maybe Purgatory for Dean -- cause he kinda likes that killing thing and he found Heaven boring. Maybe if they make Heaven where you can be with your family for real**. But Sam never deserved the pit for eternity and neither does Dean. So... I'll be unhappy if that is part of the resolution some day. **Which brings a conundrum. What if John and Mary's heaven was to be together and Dean wants that too but Sam did not. How would it be "heaven" for Sam if he was around John and didn't want to be? Now...at this stage in his life, I think Sam would be okay with it. But my point is that the memorex version of heaven may be the best they can manage in the Supernatural 'verse.