Morrigan2575

Except of course you have the Mirakuru Clean Slade stating at the very end of the episode it wasn't the drug. And a drug free Slade still hating Oliver and wanting revenge.

Then they're dumber then I take them for, you intoduce Sara as a hero, spend an entire season showing how she's strggling to be a hero but never once since she came back in 212 killed anyone despite the constant harping on "thou shalt not kill" crap. Then have the character make the ultimate sacrifice, she gave her life/soul/sanity over to a group she was so desperate to escape from that she was willing to die for it and you turn her into a villain? That's not only bad storytelling it's a dumb move exterally because it means they're throwing Sara under the bus to prop up a character that is generally not well liked. Not only that but the only reason to ever do it would be to stick to some pre-designed plan that doesn't take into account anything that actually happened in show.

Exactly and even if you want to argue that it would have to have be re-written...i point you to the much discussed (at TWOP) picture where we see. SA, EBR and MG on the island set and MG is working on the script. And for all we know they cut a line about a kiss out of the beach scene too... Stupid as all hell (them, not you). I'm sorry but you introduce Sara as Black Canary, change her into another hero (for no effing reason) and then keep your original BC on the show while trying to introduce Laurel as BC? All the while fans will be pointing to Sara going, she was better (IMO)

Roy didn't have a costume in S2 he had a mask. Roy's the one that gets the costume in S3, we know that since CH talked about getting fitted for a costume at the upfronts (IIRC).

Honestly, anyone who says romance doesn't belong in a superhero comic book show has never read a comic in their life. That's why I laugh when people start blaming the CW for the romance or saying it's pandering. GA 52: Potential side plot love triangle with Oliver/Naomi/Fyff Bop 52: Potential love triangle with Kurt/Dinah/Ben (condor) assuming Kurt's didn't die, I've fallen few months behind X-Men relationships galore: Scott/Jean, Emma/Scott, Jean/Scott/Emma triangle, Scott/Jean/Logan triangle, Remy/Rogue, Nathan/Domino, Terry/Jamie Madrox, Tabitha/Sam, Warrern/Husk, Husk/Chamber, Lorna/Alex, Lorna/Bobby, Bobby/Lorna/Alex triangle, Bobby/Kitty (holy crap, the one surprised me), maybe even Bobby/Angelica...talk about Old School that was something I wanted back when Spider Men and His Amazing Friends was around. The list goes on and on, and I'm not even touching on DC Comics or Marvel comics in general. Comic books have never just been about the powers or the fights they've always been about the characters and relationships between the characters, friends, lovers, enemies, mentors and protegees all play an important part in a good comicbook story and a good adaption. Sometimes Arrow misses the mark, making the Oliver/Slade falling out being about Shado was a really bad cliche IMO, in other ways Oliver/Diggle, Oliver Felicity, Oliver/Tommy and Oliver/Thea I think the show does really well in showing how friends, family, partnership and potential romance can work while adding to the heroes journey. In fact the ILY scene was actually the perfect combination of Romance/Heroic Storyline, IMO. You have the underlying feelings that (depending on your bent, may/may not have been there) but it's being used to further Oliver's journey to being a true hero.

It's the S2 poster with a twist, Oliver is in fully Arrow garb including bow & arrow he's pushed further to the front away from the Team and they changed the background from The Island to something generic. I think they should have jsut kept the S2 poster it was better (IMO).

Agreed, completely which is why I'm glad it was cut (assuming we're not all nuts and that's what happened..but it seems the mostly likely scenario). I think the scene played out perfectly, it was a tease but also a setup for S3. I saw someone on tumblr made comparison's to the Olicity fakeout and something that happened on The Mentalist in S4 finale that was recently paid off in the S6 finale. It's an obvious trope but one that does actually work in most shows.

As I put in the relationship thread it seems almost certain it was a kiss cut from the mansion scene. Candagraphs had talked about there being a kiss in the finale (which never ended up in the episode), then there's the comment from SA about the ILY seen being shorter than the original scene they shot and CH's comment certainly indicates something intimate between O/F and since the ILY aired you can't get much more intimate than a kiss...unless you're talking sex and that just wouldn't have fit with the characters.

I wonder if that's the official DVD cover? It's a twist on the CW S2 poster but I don't like it as much. I get that it's Arrow but putting so much distance between him and the rest of the cast feels off, plus changing the background from the Island to the generic city streets seems off as well.

None of this belongs on the thread anyway but the stuff that happened on twitter was NOT started by fandom...you only have to look at twitter and SA's wife's actual post. If anyone wants to discuss it further feel free to PM since there really isn't a place to discuss it on this board. As far as Olicity goes...there's clear indication that there was an Olicity kiss that was in S2 (most likely the finale) that got cut. We got this from a few sources, CH answered in a Madrid Q&A that's he'd want to be Oliver in S3 because of an O/F scene that got cut from S2, then there's the comment from SA about the ILY scene in the finale being shorter than they originally filmed and he felt this version worked better, plus there's the "mystery kiss" in the finale that Canadagraphs talked about (which never ended up in the episode). All indications point to O/F kissing in the Queen Mansion. Having not seen the cut scene I don't know what it would have been like but I think the way the mansion/beach scenes played out perfectly with just the right amount of teasing/setup for further Olicity development in S3 with a probable real kiss by the end of S3 (my guess) to cap off the S2 finale ILY. A part of me wonders what would have happened if they did kiss? Both the media and fandom went nuts with the ILY, could you imagined how much more talk there would have been about it if the ILY was coupled with a kiss? Then again, those fans that were hurt by the fakeout would have been even more hurt by both the fake ILY and a kiss.

So how does that work? Does the studio or network do the submitting or do the actors put their names in the ring?

I think they were goofing off. I really doubt that anyone beyond the EPs and SA knows much about S3 just yet. Unless she knows what the Felicity stuff is that was supposed to be in S2 and got pushed to S3. I know that in her interview with PopSugar she talked about sitting down with MG on the flight from Vancouver to LA and they talked about Felicity. During the interview she said that what MG told her blew her mind. However, this was back in Nov/Dec when they were filming 2.13 or 2.14 so it's possible that she was talking about the season finale, not the Felicity backstory that got pushed to S3.

I love Felicity as she is, I don't want them to turn her into generic badass fighter #4. On the other hand it would be foolish for a person that's living this type of life not to get some sort of defensive training or picking up weapons. I think saying she can never be a fighter or should never kickass will cause the character to stagnate but that doesn't mean it needs to happen anytime soon. At this point I'd like to see Felicity using a taser or even pepper spray and eventually moving on to handguns simply because it's something a normal person would use for protection. However, I'd prefer to see more of Felicity winning due to her intellect and the fun, twists they could do on that theme. I thought making Felicity the "torturer" in 2.20 was brilliant, It was funny and different and allowed the character to shine in a realistic and unique way that was totally organic to the character.

MG interview related to his whole career but includes stuff about Arrow. http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2014/06/catching-up-with-arrow-showrunner-marc-guggenheim.html I'm not sure when the article was written, MG mentioned that they're pitching S3 to The CW "tomorrow" but this was apparently done sometime after the Series finale aired...or the media got an advanced screening. They went back to writing S3 on Monday 6/2, I'm guessing they had to pitch S3 right around the time of the finale but I always thought they made the pitch before Upfronts? Interview with CH and EBR...it's in Spanish, not sure if the link will come through as translated to English but I'm sure the Spanish speakers among us can translate better than Google anyway. http://cinemania.es/blogs/detalle/22249/los-lectores-de-cinemania-entrevistan-a-emily-bett-rickards-y-colton-haynes-de-arrow

Pretty much word to your entire post. Very well said.

I don't know if he was the original but he was certainly the first example of a Mary Sue that I remember and is usually held as THE Mary Sue example.I fear that this show and these prodcuers get so wrapped up in flash that they'll continue to let characters and storylines drop, S2 from 211-217 were kind of a Cluster F*ck of dropped story lines and characters. I should be happy that the EPs actually seem willing to acknowledge their mistakes but it doesn't mean much if they don't learn from them. At Phoenix Con SA kind of implied that in Russia when Oliver was with Isabel he may have had his mind on Felicity. It was funny because after Isabel's speech in 222 many fans wondered if Isabel was jealous of Felicity for that very reason. When fans asked MG what Isabel was going to say amd why she hated Felicity his answer was it was just a throw away line, sometimes people just hate other people for no reason. Stuff like that is what worries me, the writers threw it out there without much thought but it was big enough that the fans wondered about it. Hell even SA put some thought into the reason.

I have to give Charmed credit, they did a really good job (IMO) of introducing kids to the show and actually making them important, I really enjoyed the Chris/Wyatt dystopian future storyline. However , I think Arrow is making a major mistake introducing Connor Hawk so soon and at such a young age (6 or 7 at most?). I'm guessing the baby/mother will also be used as another roadblock/bump in the road for Olicity or a way to break up/cause angst for Lauiver if the show (oddly) goes in that direction in S3. But I guess that's going to be a major part of S3, Oliver/baby, Thea/Merlyn, Diggle/baby, Felicity/Daddy or Mom, Laurel/Lance/Sara (probably), not sure about Roy...hopefully they don't knock Thea up to add Roy into this family theme.

This is too funny not to share.

Or maybe it's about loving someone new? One could argue that Laurel/Sara were falling back on old habits and routines, even McKenna was someone from his past. Helena was new but a kindred soul, someone as effed up and driven by hate/revenge as S1 Oliver. I can't find the original quote but based on the one line I'm going with the OP referring to Wesley Crusher from ST:TNG who was notoriously hated by fans but was beloved by Gene Roddenberry and in fact based on a young Gene Roddenberry IIRC.

Right but maybe I'm missing something there's a difference between EP and Show Runner, right? Shows can have multiple EPs but that doesn't make them all Show Runners. Usually there's the show runner or team of show runners and then you have EPs/writers and then staff writers. She's obviously high up in Berlanti Productions, sounds like she's going to create another level of management between Berlanti and all of his projects but not act as a day to day show runner on Arrow.

Right but she's the president of Berlanti Productions overseeing all of the tv and movie projects that's not a show runner for Arrow.

Wait there's a new female EP? I hadn't heard about that. I heard about someone named Eric who is a new EP. Do you have a link or name?

They are definitely doing a 5-6 month time jump, MG said it in a couple of interviews right before the finale aired.

I saw that. Eric something? Is he a new show runner or just a new writer/EP to pick up the slack now that AK is on Flash

It was always rumored that SA had a 5 year contract while KC and everyone else was rumored or out right stated by TV Magazine to have 3 year contracts. I've yet to hear anything from KC or anyone else to suggest that KC was given a 5 or 6 year contract.