cereality

Meanwhile Princess Kate is saying Jill Who has advice? Who the heck is that?! She looks rough in the pictures outside church, but honestly I don't feel bad for her. You had major abdominal surgery like 3 weeks ago. I'm sure when you're discharged, they tell you what you should/should not be doing. I'm fairly certain that does not include driving 5+ hours to some convention 1 week after the birth and walking around and toting your 15 pounder in a sling. I'm also certain it doesn't involve going to church and wherever else as soon as you return. Of course she looked like she was cramping and in pain outside church and needed Derick to bring the car to her. Isn't she supposedly a midwife?? Does she not do discharge instructions for her own patients. Is this her definition of taking it easy? I'm still not clear about why she's doing it. They are famewhores and probably don't want to fall out of the limelight by saying -- sorry we're taking 4 weeks to ourselves and won't be going anywhere or doing People interviews; after all then the attention will be gone as they'll start focusing on Jessa's pregnancy or Josiah's courtship. But these days, you can stay home and still make yourself "relevant" by putting up IG pics daily. Does she have some misguided notion that despite what doctors or midwives say, Duggar women are able to squat down and give birth and a few hours later be back to normal??

And there's one reason right there that Josh needs to put an end to the baby train. They wanted rack of lamb for dinner -- he was able to go get it. Those are the perks of having a well paying job in DC and a small-ish family -- you can splurge here and there and not worry about it. Who knows if this DC job is forever or if he's alternatively respected enough that he could get another similarly paid gig, should FRC get a new fair haired boy in a few years. Does he really want to be back in Arkansas on a used car salesmen's salary raising 7 kids and saying --maybe we'll get rack of lamb for our anniversary, it's TTC tonight and a canned veggie side?

I highly doubt TLC bears any liability for what happens to the kids. They are there to film -- the kids' health problems are their own. Maybe if TLC arranged a stupid stunt for filming and then a kid got hurt, there would be issues -- but this was just a freak medical emergency having nothing to do with TLC. I imagine Jana and all the kids view Scott as an adult who is out in the real world and thus he'd know what to do -- so it may just have been a heat of the moment -- OMG call Scott since Mama and Daddy aren't around. I wonder if JD wasn't there or if they called him -- isn't he/wasn't he doing something EMT related? Or was that fake for the show?

I realize that a 25 yr old without 4 babies of his own is like a unicorn or mermaid in their world, but seriously -- they've never met a 25 yr old who hasn't been around kids? Josh was being so smug about -- we have to start with parenting 101, he has never buckled a kid in a car seat. And even Mac sounded a little bratty saying -- I don't think Derick has spent time with kids before. And then Josh sort of ate his words when Derick buckled his kid in saying -- well it isn't rocket science. You could tell this was a TLC story line, but Derick was so not into it. When they're crossing through the parking lot, Josh is trying to get 3 kids to hold hands, while Derick has his hands in his pocket; when they enter the store, Derick is looking at his phone -- like any 25 yr old male -- and not looking adoringly at the children. And why doesn't Mac call them Aunt Jill and Uncle Derick? Why is it just Jill and Derick -- given that they are 2 decades older? Is this the one issue on which they're trying to be progressive??

Added -- the flying home issue reminds me of that scene from Home Alone where the kid's mother was at the gate paying people cash and trading away her earrings just to get someone to switch tickets with her. Her husband had said -- look -- let's just take the flight 2 days later, doing all this won't get you there much faster. And like a mom -- she was like -- nope, if I have to get out on a runway and hitchhike, I am going to do what I can to get to him. So then she travels through like 5 cities and on a moving truck to get home -- only to arrive 3 minutes before her husband who took the later flight. I realize it's fiction, but I think that's what real moms are like. Hell even in there own fundie cult -- when Trace Bates -- a teen, not a 4 yr old had a car accident -- you could see the sheer look of panic on Kelly's face and Gil had to tell her over and over "don't come to the accident scene, he's ok -- I will bring him to you." And even then she was saying "I wonder if he's REALLY ok or if they're just protecting me" -- she didn't believe it until she saw him. Michelle doesn't seem to have that kind of attachment to her kids.

I don't blame Jana for how she handled it. At the end of the day, she handled it while her parents were who knows where. She isn't the child's mother, nor is she a medical professional and with adrenaline running through her -- of course she said/did things that look stupid to those sitting on the couch no where near the situation. You could tell even grandma was kind of freaked out -- she didn't step in and take charge, she was kind of standing back by the refrigerator instructing Jana and Scott. I don't blame grandma either -- again not her child; she's not a dr; she's older and these kinds of adrenaline filled moments have to be harrowing and exhausting for her. I do blame JB and Michelle. I fully understand that it is hard to change flights these days. But if they were in Chicago -- there are ways to get home -- drive or fly to another small city and drive from there. If they were in Alaska, they were stuck, but wouldn't normal parents say on camera "we were so scared, thank God Jana was there. We were camped out at the airport and ready to hitchhike on a runway but just could not get a flight home." Even when they got home, they looked like they were arriving home from a regular trip and sauntering in the house -- no running, no look of anxiety, no statements of OMG -- where is she, no hugs or tears with Jana and the older girls. I don't find Jessa and Joy all that maternal, and you could even see more maternal feelings from them than the child's own mother. Jessa was the one who carried her out of the car and was talking to her pretty sweetly when she got home, and Joy commented on how exhausted she was. Is it possible that seizures are an issue for Josie? The howlers aren't all that bright, and if they can recognize a seizure and go get Jana -- I'm thinking they've seen one before. Also if this is a known "glitch" (wtf?) for Josie when she has a fever -- and she had had a fever all day as Jana told the EMTs -- couldn't JB and Michelle have postponed their trip or God forbid even canceled? Whatever fundie convention they were speaking at would probably have applauded them for being parents to a sick child first.

Nice to see JB and Michelle were in Chicago when Josie had her seizure and left it all to Jana and the sisters to deal. Josie comes home that night and Mama and Daddy can't possibly get a flight home from Chicago until the next day? Not even one of them?? I realize flights are flying pretty crowded right now, but I wonder if they even tried or if they said -- we'll pray -- Jana -- go ahead and make the medical decisions and freak out in the hospital by yourself or with your other sisters; it's not like you guys could possibly need emotional or parental support right now . . . .

Do we know how long Derick lived in Nepal? Regardless of whether he was passing out bibles or digging ditches -- or something in between -- it seems like he got somewhat immersed in Nepali culture. At least that was the impression I got when he took JB to go get a shave at the local barber shop and introduced Jill to a woman he had befriended who had some kind of art or clothing shop; it didn't seem like he was going to these places for the first time. It seems like he was into Nepali food too -- though I doubt there's too much of a choice on a day to day basis; I'm sure there are western restaurants in his city but maybe not in his own neighborhood. It would be interesting to hear about his life there -- though I guess there's no way to and no reason to work it into the show since it pre-dates Jill.

Do Jill and Derick watch TV? Even if they don't, is she going to understand that he may want to spend today glued to CNN to see what his former home looks like and that he may be wondering how to get in contact/news re local friends he may have had there? Or is it going to be like -- it was God's will, honey, today at the convention my 30 siblings are playing their screetchy violins, we can't be late -- turn off the TV and let's go.

I think education is remarkably consistent across generations (at least in U.S. public schools). So I think Derick will notice that if 7th grade rolls around and Iz is doing arithmetic flashcards meant for 2nd graders rather than algebra or 12th grade rolls around and he's just starting algebra, when Derick, his bro, and most people on a college bound track are in some type of calculus or pre-calculus by then. Problem is the Mrs. He will be so whipped by then and she will be so much touchier and "my ay or the highway by then," that I'm not sure he's going to be able to call her out on his kids' lack of education without causing some serious offense. The Duggars are not people who understand what they don't know. I don't know if anyone remembers the Dilley sextuplets in Indiana (all college seniors now); their mom wanted the experience of homeschooling for a yr or two and did it in like 5th or 6th grade. When asked why those grades, she said -- well we thought a lot about it, and when they're very little and learning to read etc. and just getting used to school, they need an intense structure that we didn't want to disturb; and when they're in high school -- they need physics labs and calculus and things like that that we can't teach at home. But in 5th-6th, it's a good "in between" time where we can handle the math/science/literature. Of course Mrs. Dilley is a nurse -- from an actual college with an actual certification -- not certified by the Duggars' fellowship of professionals who bestow titles on the Duggar kids that they haven't earned, like midwife.

Interesting that Derick posted a pic with his kid in an Oklahoma State shirt with the caption -- 3rd generation Pistol Pete. Nice to see he's held onto those dreams/plans for his son for the last 2 weeks. Though 18 more yrs to go and by then Derick will be 100% Duggar so who knows. Hopefully the homeschooling conference and having to spend days with huge uneducated fundie families -- maybe at one of his first large fundie gatherings -- is showing Derick that he married in to and socializes with totally uneducated people and their version of homeschooling is pretty much non existent, and his son will NOT be participating. As the headship this is something he should put his foot down on.

I don't see why we're being so hyper critical of the lock thing just bc Ben and Jessa did it. Millions of people do it every yr. If that's making the bridges unstable and needs to be banned -- fine -- ban it, remove the locks, and put up signs. But if millions of others engage in that activity, I don't see why it's so terrible that Ben brought along a lock. Sure they have lots of issues and aren't perfect, but in this instance they were acting like 99% of honeymooners out there.

Michelle's true personality and behavior towards the kids certainly showed when she said "great job" sarcastically to whichever of the older boys dropped the beam. Wouldn't a normal mom freak out for a second and want to make sure that a heavy beam didn't fall on someone's hand or foot?! Looked like she was more concerned about the $1 frame from the thrift store that got broken. I didn't get the "ugly American" vibe from Jessa and Ben on their honeymoon -- as we usually get from JB when he goes around saying Holla no matter what country he's in. Though I guess that varies person to person -- I mean when Jill was in Nepal, she was trying the local food and telling JB not to smell it before he put it in his mouth. I thought it was funny when the escargot came and it was clear that Jessa wasn't going to eat any; they both looked like -- we don't want to be rude, these are on the house. I noticed that when they were still talking about the escargot and the host/waiter was walking back over to them -- she turns to Ben and goes -- "hurry he's coming" -- urging him to try it so that it wouldn't look like they were being totally rude.

I thought it was interesting that they were living in the hotel after the wedding. Immediately after the wedding they honeymooned for a few days in the mountains someplace -- I want to say TN or NC or someplace similar. Then it looks like they came back to Arkansas for a few days and stayed in a hotel and then went to Europe. Surprised JB didn't expect them to just stay in Ben's warehouse room or put them up at Derick and Jill's house while their house was being worked on. Though I have a feeling Jessa is less "compliant" than Jill would be and may have just said -- sorry pops, we're married and need to be comfortable if we're going to get on with baby making, we need a hotel for a week. Do the Duggars go to the dr aside from pregnancy? Something about Michelle's eyes seems off; things like thyroid or heart conditions can cause your eyes to look different/stick out -- I wonder if she'd ever get checked or if she ONLY goes to the OB GYN.

Honestly if they did get to stay in hotels with $1400/night rooms and go to the Eiffel Tower before it opened and all that other stuff -- I'm happy for Ben and his parents by extension. I mean he is a kid from rural(ish) Arkansas, and I'm sure he never in his wildest dreams thought he'd ever go to Paris, see the Eiffel Tower or Champs Elysee, ride a gondola, let alone experience it in such luxury. I mean he's never been on a train before (which I thought was weird but then I remembered I lived in NYC -- subways everywhere and the Amtrak corridor to Boston and DC); the middle of the country doesn't have that. I mean I'm sure Mike and Guinn do the best they can to provide, but at the end of the day -- I doubt a family vacation to Europe is realistic; but I'm sure they're glad their son got to experience it for a few days bc of TLC. Let's face it -- the rest of their lives won't be easy. He'll be working for the Duggars -- cleaning toilets or whatever tasks JB invents for his sons in law to do; either way he'll be relying on JB for money and JB will hold it over him for the rest of his life. Then there will be the blessings that come every few years. Sure babies are all cute and it's great to compete with your sister in law to have one ASAP -- until you realize in a few yrs that you are Josh -- you didn't live at all in your 20s and by your mid 20s, your life resembles that of a 45 yr old man. It's nice that for a few days -- they got to be newlyweds experiencing luxury on TLC's tab without JB or 800 siblings in tow. You can tell that now that he's given 3 couples homes -- the rest of the older/middle kids expect it. Whoever was interviewing with Josiah -- Jason maybe -- a teen said "well we can't expect to all get starter homes BUT my dad IS in real estate." And Josiah threw in something like "fingers crossed, I'm 8th" which I took to mean he's the 8th in line - though I guess he's more like 4th in line since you get homes by courtship order. It's very clear that want to court/marry/get out, but don't necessarily have plans on how to provide bc while they may say they don't EXPECT a home -- in their heart of hearts, they really do expect JB to come up with a home or at least some kind of residential plan. Disgusting. If you're old enough and mature enough to marry, you and your beloved should be mature enough to figure out how to make the rent or the mortgage on some kind of starter residence.

Besides the obvious issues that have been repeated so many times re how young, unexposed etc they are -- they do seem in love and comfortable with each other. Ben seemed genuinely excited about Europe and seemed like he wanted to take in the sights. I kept waiting for one of them to say -- how would you feel about living here for a year or two?! Though I guess they weren't THAT thrilled with it.

I'm sure she feels the need to "keep sweet" -- the whole time she's at this conference; it's not like she's going to be able to say honestly to Kelly Bates or the Kellers or Paines or whichever fundie asks -- we're glad to have him, but I'm still in a lot of pain; or he's great but doesn't sleep. Hopefully she's not internalizing and thinking to herself -- what's wrong with me, this is supposed to be the time of my life. I mean -- I hope she cuts herself some slack and realizes this period is hard for everyone, and no one is blissfully happy at the physical pain/sleep deprivation of it all. I agree with the poster above who says that they probably weren't raised with any resilience. I think people who are out in the world experience disappointment from a young age -- not getting admitted to their top choice college or getting admitted but not being able to go due to finances; having a friend who drops them; having to miss a sporting event they practiced for for weeks due to injury or even having to sit out a whole season of their sport etc. People are able to say -- that sucks -- and move on; and even then moving on isn't always easy and disappointment can linger for a LONG time for some people. Yet with Jill and her siblings -- they've never had a chance to be disappointed. School was run by their parents. Their "professions" were created by family friends who wouldn't dare tell them they aren't cutting it. And they never experienced any hint of heartbreak bc their daddy found and approved of their fundie husbands. So now the disappointment of how Iz's birth went in addition to maybe some disappointment that this isn't the time of her life yet -- it may take some time to get over.

They have lost their minds. She had a major surgery 10 days prior -- likely is still recovering from the surgery and bleeding all over the place -- and thinks it's a good idea to take herself and her unvaccinated child to a conference that will attract 1000s of people?? I'm sorry I'm not buying the whole -- it's good for her to go because it'll stave off PPD. Give me a break. We don't know if she even has PPD, if she has it -- I'm pretty sure the treatment for it is not to travel a few states away while recovering from surgery and bring your unvaccinated kid with you at a time when there have been measles and whooping cough outbreaks. And why is there a picture of Iz in the car out of his car seat? I sincerely hope they were parked and took him out and snapped a picture; rather than riding around without him being in a car seat. If she is really so desperate to see all the fundie families and show off the baby and talk about the delivery -- aren't there going to be other chances? Didn't Michaela Bates just get engaged? Chances are they'll be married this summer/fall -- so she can crash the Bates' party in a few months and show off the baby and fellowship with people then. I blame Derick as much as Jill. I'm sorry but is he so taken by his wife, that he can't say -- honey I know we planned on going to this conference but that's when we thought we'd have a one month old; I'm not sure it's a good idea to go 2 weeks after major surgery!?

I'm surprised (in a good way) that Maci feels so close to Jen and Larry. I mean it makes sense, they are Bentley's "other parent" since all Ryan seems to do is drop Bentley off with his parents and leave when it's his turn to have him. It's Ryan's parents that are instilling morals, values, enforcing rules, feeding/bathing etc. I thought it was cute that she was nervous to tell them bc she knew they'd be a bit disappointed at her having another kid without being married and that she felt bad that this kid wouldn't be any blood relation to them. I thought Larry's congratulations to her and Taylor was very real. I thing it's good for Bentley too to see his grandparents -- who provide stability for him -- think of his brother or sister as being a good thing, even if it isn't their real grandkid; I think it'll help Bentley accept the child that much more easily. Not sure what Ryan stormed off about -- I guess it was about not being with Shelby anymore -- but his parents seem so over it. Seeing B&T versus C&T -- you see how mature/ready B&T were/are to be parents in comparison to Catelynn and Tyler. When Tyler was throwing his hissy fit about social media, Brandon was totally calm and steady and while Teresa reacted a bit facially when he said -- when you don't explain why I can't post pics, I do it out of retaliation -- I think Teresa didn't say anything bad. It was good that Brandon pointed out that they have NEVER threatened to close the adoption and Teresa said -- well, we're here. I think Catelynn is 95% of the reason that B&T haven't closed the adoption. You can see Teresa and Brandon even can "feel" a little bit of the mom's pain in giving up her child and they don't want to "punish" her for giving them a child by totally cutting her out. I though the scene where Teresa hugged Catelynn and said she would love her child so much seemed pretty real. Part of me wonders if B&T are a bit relieved that C&T are "moving on" with another child because maybe they'll be a bit too "busy" with their own kid to be posting videos about Carly. I mean they haven't made themselves busy with anything in the last 6 yrs -- school, work etc. -- so they have all the time in the world to be thinking about their social media profile and every so often Tyler realizes that they are probably slipping in the public's awareness, and out comes a new Carly video. Maybe with their own family, they won't have the time or even if they have time -- they can opt to post pics of their own kid.

I imagine the car ride may not have been fantastic (though probably ok since Alyssa felt up to going at all), but once she was there -- aside from the sibling chaos, it may have been nice for Alyssa to feel a bit "pampered." Even if she wasn't pampered -- which may be hard to do in a big chaotic house -- at least she and John didn't have to worry about meals or going to get takeout for a few days; if Alyssa wanted to nap or take a shower, her mom/sisters could keep an eye on the baby and/or help John keep an eye on her since he's a brand new dad. So maybe she got a bit more rest than she would have gotten at home. I do hope Gil and Kelly are good about saying -- let's not wear out the baby/new parents -- everyone out of Alyssa and John's room for the afternoon, let's let them rest. I feel like Gil and Kelly are understanding parents and would step in themselves or at least if Alyssa asked. When Alyssa was saying that she and John had decided no visitors for a month, and her teenage sisters started balking -- both Gil and Kelly jumped in and agreed with the new parents' wishes.

I don't know if we can go so far as to say that Jill is doubting her parents/parents' belief system as they taught it to her. Do they really teach that if you pray hard you'll get what you want, and if you don't it's because you somehow messed up the prayer? Don't most religions including Christianity teach that God answers prayers but sometimes the answer is NO for reasons that are "better" for you, even though you may not get why?! Does Gothard teach something different? Cathy OTOH comes across normal when she said she wasn't worried about a c section and she had seen Jill in enough pain. She like any normal mother was probably thinking -- if you're in/practically in transition with contractions 1 min apart and the baby isn't coming, isn't it time to let professionals take over and do what they need to do!? And such a nice sentiment that now Derick will understand the way Cathy loves him. I think it's true -- I don't have kids, but I think you have to be a parent to totally get everything your parents did for you, how much they love you, how much they worry about you etc. You can tell she understands what parenting and parent-child relationships are about -- it's not about how many you have or how they get here, it's about what you do once they are here. Yeah -- the "no shame" thing didn't sit well with me either. He should have gone stronger and said she was 100% right to put the baby's/her health first -- everything else re vaginal vs. c or home vs. hospital is just "preference," but health is a "necessity." There's "no shame" -- no kidding Derick. Do you feel shame when you need antibiotics for strep throat or an x ray?? It's a medical procedure, why even introduce the concept of shame into it; if Jill wasn't thinking shame (she prob was), now it's one added thing on her mind.

Looks like Alyssa and John didn't hold firm on the -- we don't want visitors until the baby is a month old. I'm actually surprised they were willing to hit the road (I don't imagine you'd fly?) with a one week old. At least the fact that they traveled suggests that they wanted to/it was an easy birth for Alyssa and she's feeling well; it's not like anyone could "require" them to travel so soon, whereas I had a feeling that visitors would just show up whether John and Alyssa really wanted them or not. Even when Alyssa and John said no visitors for a month, I think the middle section of the Bates girls -- Tori, Carlin, Josie -- had the reaction of "well you can't stop me," so I figured they were pretty much going to call John and Alyssa and say "hey we're on the road, we'll be at your place tomorrow," such that the new parents would have a hard time saying NO -- turn back around.

Funny how the newborn wears shoes, when mom and dad don't bother. I've never seen anyone put shoes on a newborn -- and in the People article on the newsstand they had a picture of a shoe rack in his room full of shoes! As for Lawson -- it's possible that he came as the chaperone for Joseph and whichever daughter people think he's dating. But it's also possible Joseph was coming to meet the baby and Lawson decided he wanted a road trip -- having nothing to do with a courtship for anyone in the Bates or Duggar families. The Bates kids seem to travel more than the Duggars and not always with groups of 10 siblings; their blog seems to show kids going off with another sibling or occasionally even alone, so maybe it's just that. As for why he's not in FL meeting Allie/Ally -- bc his sister is completely over having 18 siblings at every milestone event. I mean I don't doubt Alyssa loves her siblings, but since she got married and moved down to FL, you can tell that her life is about John and his family; even when they're shown at the Bates home, not only does John look uncomfortable, but Alyssa also looks like she's thinking -- ok would it be rude to leave yet?? One of the teen Bates girls even said that they didn't find out Alyssa was pregnant for several WEEKS after she told John's family, and on one of the episodes Alyssa and John made clear they wanted a full month with their daughter before they had sibling visitors. I'm guessing they're holding to that, so Lawson hasn't been invited over yet and has time for a road trip to Arkansas to the family that likely started receiving visitors once Jill was stitched up. I'm not shocked that Michelle hasn't been proud of her kids too many times. In her world view, a woman is only valuable if she's married AND birthing babies. That is the only thing to be proud of -- not getting an A on a test; scoring a goal in soccer; overcoming your fear of stage fright and acting a part in the school play; graduating high school/college; getting a job/promotion etc. So when Jill got married, it was like -- eh, ok you've gotten over hurdle no. 1 but let's see how long it takes you to make a baby and how you do with birth. Now that she's made a honeymoon baby, and given birth to him in a shitshow event that only the Duggars would enjoy bc it was "dramatic" -- NOW Jill has proven her worth. She said in the People article that she had tears in her eyes when Jill had contractions a min apart at like hour 20 of labor; um -- so her daughter's uterus contracting and causing tremendous non stop pain, THAT was a source of pride.

If the Martinez home is more fundie-lite and Josiah has been hanging out there over months/years and has gotten to be friendly with Marjorie -- I hope for his sake that he HASN'T kept sweet and has either explicitly said or let on implicitly that while he's ok with religion, he doesn't love his family's lifestyle. Even though they have to play the courtship and TLC game for now, that's all relatively temporary. It's better for him long term if she realizes that he is/will be looking to do something for work ultimately that does not involve working for JB and that's why he's apprenticing with her dad now and that he may only want 2-4 kids and that he may want a family life consisting of wife who has thoughts and opinions, wears pants, watches TV, has friends, goes places etc. I feel like if he's shared those kinds of things with her, he's more likely to be getting a girl who wants to bring him into her life/her family's life -- rather than getting a fame whore kind of girl or someone like Derick who is desperate to get into the Duggar life rather than creating their own.

College educated Derick has handed his brain and his balls over to Jill, so his role in this family is nodding along to whatever Jill wants. I wonder if/how much Cathy knew when this was going on. Though IIRC, she was supposed to be at the house as a "runner" -- so perhaps she did have details. I wonder if she was giving her son an earful or even gently saying -- you know babies need to come within 24 hrs of water breaking and since she doesn't seem close, maybe you guys need to call the hospital. Or if she was keeping her mouth shut, knowing she'd be overruled by Michelle as she'd say -- oh NO you've only done this twice, this is exactly who birth number 16 was for me, she's fine, actual MDs will just mess everything up . . . .