cereality

Somehow I can picture Jessa handling birth better than Jill did. It's been long enough that I don't remember the details, but I do remember that Jill had grandiose visions of how it would go bc as a midwife, she knew everything there was to know re birth and then she ended up taking stupid chances. With Jessa -- I can see her having a more pragmatic, get this kid out of me and get me an epidural so I don't feel much -- kind of attitude. I think those kinds of people end up deferring more to OBs/educated professionals as long as they have the pain relief they need -- which gives them less room to make stupid decisions.

The Duggars have fallen off my radar lately, but is anyone surprised by the fact that Ben and Jessa haven't moved away and still live in Grandma's house? I thought Derick's desire to go away on a mission RIGHT NOW was in direct response to everything coming out about the molestation and a mission was the only way to get the hell out of dodge asap. I realize Jessa was already pregnant by then, so it wasn't as possible for Ben and Jessa to head off to South America, but it's been 6+ months -- Ben can't come up with ANY way to get away? He has an associates degree now -- you'd think that would be enough for him to get a job in Hot Springs and said job would be enough to rent a modest 2 bedroom home of the variety they're living in now. Or I would think he would already have enrolled in whatever seminary he's looking at and that seminary would provide married housing. It's not like by staying, they're getting all these financial benefits -- they live in a 2 bedroom home -- not the Dillard mansion -- and his job consists of odd jobs for JB and JD. I realize they must be getting income from being on tour for the Southern Women's Shows -- but those shows don't seem related to JB; it seems that the organizers reached out to Ben and Jessa separately, so they could go on and live their lives and make a few thousand extra here and there from those speaking engagements -- which may go on for another yr or two until there's another hot fundie couple angling to take their place -- and bank that extra money to start saving for a down payment on a home.

I think Chad is just an energetic guy who likes doing things -- not just going to work and then sitting on the couch. Given that there's not that much to do in rural Tenn -- he's likely happy to jump in on all kinds of tasks from gardening to finishing Zach's nursery. Thing is -- at some point he's going to have projects to complete in his own home and he may realize the Bates clan isn't dropping by to help him add a room to his house or whatever. And now he has more of a "reason" to sit on the couch after work -- with Carson. When Carson's a little older, I can see him being that involved dad who wants to get out of work right on time to go coach soccer or at least go watch his kid's game. That's when he may get a bit resentful -- that not only do his inlaws not help him with stuff as much as he helps them, but also that they have 10 (8? 6? whatever) strapping boys at home who can clean out a shed, yet they pull him away from his young child to do such tasks.

I'm way behind on the episodes but I watched one where it was Chad to the rescue for everything -- planting a garden, cleaning out a storage shed, haircuts etc. It's nice that they have such a handy young guy as a son in law and moreover he feels enough a part of the family that he wants to be involved, but they need to lay off of him and not burn him out. I mean I know Gil would not ask the same of John or Brandon bc he knows neither is particularly interested in being around the family for any extended stretch of time -- yet he feels ok calling Chad at work and asking him to stop by to help preschoolers with a garden?? ! I like this family, but it's clear they have made their way with 19 kids and 1 income by "hinting" how much they need things and jumping on any offers made and couching it as "God sent us this blessing." Just bc Chad can do everything from carpentry to haircuts, doesn't mean he should be asked to do so. I mean presumably the family figured out something for haircuts before Chad arrived on the scene 2 yrs ago.

Seems like the Bates boys and inlaws are all making something of themselves rather than just preaching or trying to keep extending their TV fame. Zach is now a cop. Chad is a finance manager for a manufacturing company. John has an HVAC business which I think he co-owns with his brothers. Lawson has a landscaping business which seems to pay enough at least for now. Good for them.

So Josh likes it rough, not surprised he did this. Sex with a good fundie girl like Anna is for baby making -- get in there, get off, and get out and then pray that another blessing was made. Rinse and repeat. He wants fun, regular wild times that others his age are having without ending up with the responsibility of 20 mouths to feed. The respectable options here would have been -- first, sit Anna down and tell her how he's feeling and say the Lord has led him to believe that BC is in order and a family of four is enough and he wants to try new things in the bedroom. If he couldn't do that or Anna disagreed, then the other respectable option was get divorced and go sow your wild oats. But this is Josh and I'm not sure the words Josh and respectable ever belong in the same sentence. The people articles suggest that they've got Anna pretty isolated -- seems like her only outlets now are the Duggars who are no doubt spouting this is a test from God and she MUST stay with their son/brother and/or her parents -- who are saying the same thing. I wouldn't be surprised if JB and Michelle are purposefully isolating her -- while holding over her that with her hubby in rehab, she NEEDS their money and also for them to do headship tasks like paying bills which is probably too complicated for womenfolk; the last thing they want is for her to get time with Amy or one of her "normal" siblings who say it like it is and tell her she has to leave bc "once a cheater, always a cheater."

Just read the People article that puts together Daniel Keller's posts on Jessa's IG - calling Josh a pig; saying he'd go get Anna and the kids and pay for them to live with him; saying that Anna isn't planning on leaving; and calling out his parents for being more interested in how divorce would look rather than thinking about their daughter. Love it. So glad someone is being real and standing up. I hope Anna takes him up on it, but even if she doesn't -- at least she knows that if she does, she won't be completely alone -- she has 1 family member who supports her. So has Daniel been shunned by his family? I assume he isn't fundie?

Thing is -- I don't see Anna turning him down for sex, ever, bc she knews/knows that in her cult, it is the wife's duty to please the husband -- any time he wants it. But in her mind -- and she says it -- sex is for making as many babies as possible. It's likely that Josh wanted sex for fun, not for babies; he's been saying since he got married that 2-3 kids is enough. Yet saddled down to a fundie wife, you can never say you don't want babies or want to use BC. So he likely wasn't having sex with Anna all the time bc he feared making babies. So he got his needs fulfilled elsewhere, where pregnancy wouldn't be a concern. But obviously it's 100% HIS fault. He knew what he was marrying into. And if he went into that marriage and had a kid or two and realized, holy shit, I don't want more kids -- there were options. He was the headship -- he could have demanded BC. He could have gotten a vasectomy. He could have divorced her due to a fundamental disagreement on how to live -- i.e. BC vs. 100 kids. I also think that once Josh got into the "real" world -- i.e. outside his Arkansas hometown -- he realized Anna just didn't do it for him. Long fluffy hair, keeping sweet, weird clothes, and gazing at him adoringly was all good when he had no options -- he chose the girl who'd give him the time of day. Then he got to DC and saw all kinds of "regular" women -- wearing jeans; with some sass; stylish hair and clothes; can hold their own in any conversation -- and he thought WOW -- there's SOOOO many women out there like this, yet I'm 28 with a boring wife at home -- maybe I get me some action. He does it the first time with some woman who is cheating on her dude, she likely takes charge in the bedroom and teaches him a thing or two and he's hooked -- women he's attracted too who will have sex for fun?! What's not to like?? Thing is if Anna doesn't leave him over this, this will be a lifelong thing. If he's no longer attracted to her -- esp now that he's been with others -- temptation will rear its ugly head again; it may not be soon but in a yr or two, I can see him picking up someone locally in Arkansas who he finds exciting.

I realize Michelle is a loon and doesn't care too much about her kids, but if she cares about any of them it's Josh. When he was getting married, she was gleeful in saying "leave and cleave baby." I wonder if it's because after the molestation and the light contracting therapy, she knew he still had issues and she was thinking -- good, he's Anna's problem now; if he cheats on her or abuses her or whatever she'll have to deal with it and put up with it like a good fundie wife -- but at least we won't have to worry about his issues anymore.

According to their bio on their website -- she homeschooled and graduated high school; I seem to remember her saying something about studying "early childhood education" but she married so young that I'm betting it was some online courses until a suitor came along, not an actual classroom education -- which is what you'd need to teach. I don't see her being able to get a job at a school unless it's a teacher's aide or cafeteria worker -- and honestly I think waitressing would be more lucrative than that.

All the fundie families out there -- and families like the Jacksons who seemingly want/wanted to marry into fundie royalty -- should be holding up Anna as a cautionary tale. THIS is the reason that girls/women need an education and need not marry at 18 or 20 or whatever. You can be a Godly woman with a wonderful countenance who did all the right things when courting, cooked and cleaned for your man, produced a child every yr or 2 and married a man who was fundy royalty supposedly from a great family and $hit can STILL happen. And if it does, you need to be able to provide of yourself and your kids. I honestly don't think Anna's parents will support a divorce. She may be welcome to come live in the trailer for a little bit as she recovers from this news and recent child birth but then they will "encourage" her to go back to her man quickly (like in 1-2 weeks), service him and please him in such a way that he never strays again -- bc that's supposedly what the Lord wants and that's her wifely duty. And let's be honest being 27 with no real degree (I think she did something online but I have no clue if that's high school or college or what) and no work experience and 4 kids, it's not going to be easy to say -- screw it, I don't need your support, I'll figure it out. I mean I realize she could get child support from Josh if she left but that involves a lawyer that she currently can't afford. In order to afford that -- and be able to have even a 1 bedroom for her kids -- she needs to earn income. Where could she be hired? I'm guessing without any experience or education, she could waitress or maybe stock shelves in retail. That won't exactly pay for daycare for 4 kids plus rent plus food until child support/maintenance kick in. The only way she could realistically leave is if someone supports her -- gives her a place to live, watches her 4 kids at least some of the time, and can feed her and the kids. I don't know if her parents will do it -- in part it looks like they're just scraping by themselves but even if they could make it work in their trailer with mom watching the kids and Anna working at Mickey Ds and handing over her paychecks to dad to cover their expenses -- I don't think they'd do it because they'd morally disagree with her choice. She has an army of sisters in law who can easily raise 4 more kids, but even if they in their heart of hearts think their bro is a dick and she should leave -- they can't cross party lines given that their daddy pays all their bills. Same for grandma. Honestly her only hope is her own sister who left the cult.

And of course People is now quoting a source "close to the family" saying Anna would not even consider divorce and they are praying and that Anna is thinking she should have recognized the "stress" Joshie was under. I'm guessing Anna will take this as -- this is a test from God and/or I should have been a better wife and fulfilled all his needs. Gag.

Was Anna seen anywhere after the molestation thing broke -- besides the interview they did immediately before and the immediate pics of them at Reagan airport. Was she ever seen say in Walmart or grocery shopping or anything? Just curious how she's looking lately. I know much has been made on the other thread about how Jinger has suddenly lost so much weight. Obviously all of this is much much worse for Anna and I wonder if she's looking stressed or if she's trying to keep up the dopey, sweet -- he's made mistakes but the Lord's forgiven him -- image.

But what about the affair guarantee? He was paying extra to make sure he did hook up in a few months -- do you really thinking he was paying it and it was getting refunded every month bc the website couldn't connect him with a woman? I doubt it -- at that point he would have started signing up on other websites.

I haven't been on this website in recent weeks (and I come back to find this!) -- how did the leg humpers explain away molesting his sisters? What possible justification was there -- or was it -- the media/authorities got it all wrong, that's not what happened.

I am not defending JB and Michelle -- I think they are vile humans and parents BUT many many people all over the world don't touch anyone until engagement, don't kiss until their wedding date, and only have same sex friends. This happens in almost every orthodox Muslim and Jewish community that I know of including many in the U.S. Yet they do not end up molesting their sisters or having affairs; I'm sure some do have affairs, but I don't have any reason to believe that the incidence is any higher than in the general population. Beyond the "rules" re touching and kissing and friendship, I think what has effed up the kids more than anything else is their extreme isolation. In those orthodox communities, you may be going to an all boys or all girls school, never having a boyfriend/girlfriend, not kissing or having sex until marriage BUT you do get out of the house and you do have same sex friends. It's through those friend interactions that you indirectly learn a lot of right and wrong -- not just through your parents beating you over the head with their beliefs. By denying their kids that socialization and completely isolating them, it's like Josh lost all sense of what's right or wrong and lost all sense of the fact that he is no better than anyone else so yes -- he can get caught up in a scandal if he cheats on his wife just like Joe Schmoe down the street will get caught if he cheats.

Is Josh really THIS dumb?? I mean I guess I know the answer. When he got the job in DC, he should have breathed a sigh of relief knowing he "got away" with the molestation -- nothing came out in the employer's background check etc. But then he should have gone to DC knowing that it is pretty common to dig up dirt on anyone whose politics you don't like; people don't like his families "conservative" -- no abortions ever, all LGBT people are pedophiles -- kind of politics PLUS he and his family are C list public figures. He had to know that people wouldn't like that he got a 150k job with a hate group while having no education/credentials to speak of -- and thus they'd be gunning for him to make him look bad -- whether that meant exposing the molestation or anything else he did. So given that background why the eff does he sign up on Ashley Madison?? No matter what assurances they give you, in this day and age, what website is secure and totally hacker proof. Heck - if Sony, Anthem, and the federal government can be hit by hackers -- he didn't think some random affairs website could ever be hit?? If he was so desperate for sex, weren't there other ways to get it?? People have been having affairs since the dawn of time -- they picked up women in different places; they didn't sign up on an internet service using their real name and a credit card that could be tracked back to them in 2 seconds by anyone with a grudge.

Besides having unresolved sex issues and/or just not being a "good" guy, why did Josh NEED to do this? They were off in DC living their own life. If while in DC he was discovering that he liked women who were professional or a bit more "take charge" or the jeans/t shirt type or just having short hair and modern and not what he grew up with -- well, couldn't he have told his wife that's what he found hot and she could have "reinvented" a bit to get her man riled up? I'm not married, but don't married couples do that? I feel like I definitely hear friends saying -- oh my husband is growing his hair a bit longer and a 5 o clock shadow beard bc I think that's so sexy. Or I see women doing various things with their hair bc they know their husbands will like it. And that's just stuff I hear -- I bet there's more "talk" that happens in the bedroom as people tell their partners what is a turn on or not. I mean supposedly he thought Anna was cute -- he chose her and she didn't just appear at his doorstep; well can't a girl you found cute be "re-made" into whatever you're currently finding hot? Instead of you cheating on your pregnant wife??

Don't know what the OKCupid thing is about or why we assume that's him -- rather than some other arrogant guy in DC -- but looking at the Ashley Madison thing, I didn't find the sexual "likes" so weird. I mean I doubt he spent great care filling this out -- it looks like he just checked every box or the majority of them, which is something guys do on dating sites when they are basically just looking for a hot woman. When a hot woman reaches out, I don't think they much care whether she likes it rough or is a jeans and t shirt gal or an evening gown kind of gal. Joshie may have thought the same way. (Not saying Ashley Madison is anything like a dating site, just that many guys don't take the questions seriously.)

Wow -- so will this get Anna to FINALLY leave him?? With the molestation thing, there were SO many excuses -- he was so young, he didn't understand, he confessed to me before we married (yeah right) and I went in knowing he humbled himself before the Lord. With this, what possible excuse can she make in her own mind to convince herself -- or what could her parents say to convince her to stay?? I guess victim playing -- she/they could be thinking, well of course he strayed bc I wasn't giving it up enough. But really?? For TWO years? He had paid accounts from 2013-2015 and the 2014-2015 account even had an affair "guarantee" -- so he AT LEAST had an affair with one woman, and likely many. Don't know if she's even had her 6 week check up yet, but in any event she needs to RUN back to the OBGYN and ask for an STD test asap. And no more sex with Joshy, no matter what he says to get her forgiveness. Frankly if I were her, I'd be headed to any OB GYN who could see me in the morning, and then to the airport in the afternoon with all 4 kids. Don't know who controls the money, but presumably she has a credit card -- charge 5 tickets to Florida and go live your life crammed into their trailer until you can figure out how to be employable and how you'll raise these kids alone. You can come back for your stuff later -- or maybe one of her brothers/dad can go back in a few weeks, pack up her stuff, give Josh a beating, and bring her/the kids things back to Fla.

As much as we've seen these kids grow up on TV, we don't really "know" them or each kid's real personality as all we see is the sugary "keeping sweet" stuff. Who knows how Jinger processes stuff. I went through an 18+ month long stretch of extreme stress -- job related unlike the Duggar girls -- and I reacted basically by eating very little and barely sleeping. After a few months of it, you could see it on my face and after 18 months -- I look like a different person. Who knows how Jinger reacts to change. In a very short time she has gone from having all her sisters in her room to having Jill and her supposed bff Jessa leave; the relationship with Jessa is totally different and probably a bit non existent; she's been thrust into doing a lot of the housework which she isn't used to; and she is probably fearful that this will be life for her. She knows the only way to get off the compound is to snag a guy quick, yet people already aren't lining up for the Duggar girls (they get quality guys like Ben while the Bates girls get senators' sons and guys looking like Chad) and now with the entire fundie world knowing that Josh molested the older girls, I bet the pipeline has totally dried up. She may really be going through that "OMG is this what life will be for me?" thing that lots of women go through. But unlike Jessa other women hopefully still have some constants in their life when life changes -- maybe a best friend or college or a job -- so they can get away from the 24-7 mental stress of it all. With Jinger -- she can pretty much think about her life 24-7 as she throws together tater tot casserole and packs the kids' clothing. This family is quick to squash dreams -- when she innocently said she'd love life in the big city, Jill was quick to say "pray about it and be happy with whatever God wants" and her mother was quick to kill off the idea with -- oh she means a town with a Walmart. The only other "dream" these girls are allowed to have is a husband who takes them away -- and with Josh's actions and everyone knowing about them -- maybe she fears that dream is dead too.

The wedding looked far less "modern" than any of her siblings' weddings. The bridesmaids look like they are just draped in fabric and for all the talk on the show about Brandon's tux -- it just looks like he's wearing a brown suit and I'm not sure that the fit is great or that you can even see the khaki vest. I think Michael will want to start having babies right away bc frankly it'll give her the home life she wants. With Chad and Erin and John and Alyssa -- while they got pregnant quick (I know C+E don't think they did -- but in the grand scheme they did), they seemed to have their own relationships too where it wouldn't have been bad to just have fun for a while -- getting to know each other physically but also date nights and mini vacations and Starbucks runs. With these two -- I don't predict too much fun or romance, and while Michael will never say anything -- I think she'll feel wistful about it; after all she knows that Chad is the type who brings home flowers just because and John is the type who takes Alyssa out to dinner just because. So I think an instant family is what will make her feel like a wife and a valued member of that relationship. I'd be shocked if they had a honeymoon baby though. Somehow I don't picture them (esp him) as the type who wants to hole up in a hotel room for 3 days after a wedding just going at it as much as they can. That's how a honeymoon baby would be made, esp when you're dealing with a couple that has no experience and is still figuring everything out. And yet somehow Brandon seems like he'd want them to consummate once on the wedding night and be like -- that's great, we'll give it another go next weekend.

That's some hotel picture -- they stayed right in midtown -- in the 50s near Rockfeller Center. Not bad for a few hours/minutes of talking about their brother's indiscretions.

I don't get why Jessa and Jinger can't hang out. I mean what exactly is Jessa so busy with now that she's married. It's not like she works 40 hrs a week or even 10 hrs a week. I'm sure she cooks dinner for Ben, but most people don't really cook from 9-5 to have dinner on the table for their man. I'm sure she goes to "work" with Ben --but I also imagine that isn't 5 days a week. Why can't she drop by the TTH a few times a week? Or better yet if she can't stomach being in the TTH, pick up Jinger and go spend 2 hrs getting lunch or coffee or wandering the mall; it gets Jinger out of the house without a 4 yr old hanging on her leg. And while these people always act like -- oh married people are SO busy and can't hang out with singles because they have nothing in common any more -- really how has Jessa's life REALLY changed? I mean sure she's getting action nightly now and has someone to spend her evenings with -- but it's not like she has a job; I doubt she really has made any friends -- since she didn't have any growing up and they're living in the same town so it isn't as if she's gotten to meet Ben's friends' wives. So doesn't she also need her sisters to hang out with? I feel like even after Jill married, she spent a lot of time with Joy and the others in her buddy group -- frankly bc she had the time when Derick was at work.

Are Josiah and Marjorie still together? I haven't been back here for a while and was wondering why Josiah was listed in the "lonely J" thread now? Also, Zach and Whitney just posted a few pics from the wedding, and Josiah is there with other girls by his side and yet I don't think I see Marjorie in there. I thought weddings were the one approved fundie outing where you could bring your significant other -- since there are so many chaperones; I thought we saw Ben and Jessa going to weddings together before they were even engaged.