cereality

Very true re Josh and finances -- I didn't even think about severance. It's quite likely that FRC approached him with -- resign now and issue a statement re your resignation and we will pay you with full benefits for the next 6 months. Something like that carries him through the end of 2015 -- which is a LONG time. Frankly he can re-appear in DC when the press dies down in another week or two, bring JD and a few other brothers, wrap up his home and drive his stuff back to Arkansas -- and live for the rest of the yr on his DC salary while in Arkansas -- which means he actually ends up saving money, since everything in Arkansas is cheaper than DC. During this time, he no doubt calls himself a "political consultant" -- whether anyone wants anything to do with him or not -- while scratching his head and figuring out whether there are any career options for him outside of what daddy dearest can create, and if there aren't -- viola-- by the time the severance runs out, there's a new used car lot or tree service or something that's up and running.

Can you imagine what the Dillards, Seewalds, and Martinez's are thinking tonight? I'm sure Cathy is thinking -- I knew he shouldn't have married into that nut house, I always had a bad feeling about them. The Seewalds -- I think pushed Ben a bit into marriage with a Duggar star as they thought about the life it would allow their son to have; they may have some regret too. I'm guessing Marjorie's parents are thinking about how to convince her not to marry Josiah or at least turn this courtship into a normal, VERY slow dating situation where she can learn whatever secrets she needs to know that'll never come out in the presence of an 8 yr old chaperone. If any Duggar wants to or has considered escaping -- I'm thinking Jana, Jinger, Joy, Josiah or the twins -- wouldn't the next few weeks be the perfect time? I'm thinking JB and Michelle will attempt a bit of a press tour -- if anyone will have them -- or at least try to get a lot of media exposure to "clarify" what happened. I expect JB will expect the older ones to say -- all is forgiven, no worries. Isn't this the perfect time to say -- sorry pops, I can't do that; you either give me $50,000 and a plane ticket and I will quietly disappear to another city for a job in a coffee shop or any place that will hire me and start building my own life OR I will go to the media and specifically tell what happened and what life is REALLY like in this house, your choice?! Wouldn't that allow that group to escape with a decent sum of money in hand -- enough to rent a home together, get jobs, each kid uses said job to build up savings or use job money to go to college/trade school, date, make friends, and live normally and without any sense of fear??

Josh Duggar is trending on Twitter at 2 AM (est). This isn't going away quickly. Have Josh and Anna escaped DC or will they have paparazzi outside their house in the morning?

So what happens now -- do we think Josh is up late tonight packing up the house so they can move back to Arkansas over the long weekend? Or do we think they can financially ride it out in DC for a while? Isn't he now pretty much relegated to a car lot or some other "property management" gig that JB can create for him? I mean even if he can get an interview in say Tucson in some back office white collar job -- which is hard enough without a HS degree -- what employer doesn't do a background check or at least a google search before extending an offer? His name is all over the internet and even if some employer thinks it's 100% false, why would they take a chance -- given that there are so many qualified but unemployed people with perfectly clean records. Does this mean Anna pretty much has to have a home birth now? I mean COBRA or Obamacare for a 5 person family -- at any level of coverage that'll cover maternity -- has got to be really pricey. For everyone who is saying Anna should leave -- I get it, but what do you propose she does for money? With 3 kids and another on the way, parents who live in a trailer and likely aren't able to provide her lodging for her and her 3 kids for any extended period of time, and no higher education or work experience -- what is her option besides staying with Josh and saying the expected lines re how she's praying about it and forgives him?? Doesn't she have a sibling who left the fundie fold? I wonder if she can call that sibling and at least have some place to go to for a while and an opportunity to talk with someone who many not believe in the whole headship concept. I mean I'm sure she could go stay with her parents for a short time, but likely they'll just "re program" her to return to Josh with the whole -- people are imperfect, let's pray -- thing.

Went back and read some of the posts and I really think that too much is being made of how "sexually repressed" he was and poor Duggars they can have no contact with the opposite sex. I know the Duggars think they invented the rules re lack of pre marital contact with the opposite sex -- but there are many other cultures where it's common including in the U.S. Think Orthodox Jews, orthodox Muslims, and certain Eastern cultures. There are no boyfriends or girlfriends, handing holding, kissing, hugging -- even after a marriage is pretty much arranged for you. I know families from each of these religions and cultures where the first opposite sex contact has been on the wedding night -- NOT EVEN holding hands or a kiss during the wedding/wedding day. And yet somehow those grooms managed not to fondle anyone through there teen years and often into their 20s. I think it's "excusing" Josh to say -- oh he did this bc he was so repressed and he was just a curious 14 yr old. I'm sure people in those cultures are curious too -- they just know where the lines are. And if they really can't handle the curiosity and make it all the way to marriage -- fine -- they find a way to sneak porn or Playboys or a consensual "you show me yours I'll show you mine" or even a consensual "friends w benefits" situation -- they don't feel up their sisters and cousins.

Also -- how old was Josh when he started courting Anna? Is Anna lying when she says in her statement that he confessed to her and her parents at the start of the courtship? He specifically told them -- I touched my sisters many times?? Or he confessed along the lines of -- I'm weak, I was imperfect but I prayed and now I'm on the right path!? Bc if a potential son in law in an arranged marriage tells the future inlaws -- we need to chat -- just 4 yrs ago, I have touched my sisters' breasts and vaginas but I've prayed it away -- in what freaking universe is that not a deal breaker? I mean what would he have had to say to get Pa Keller to reconsider handing his daughter over -- um, I murdered someone?? But then Pa Keller sets off the creepy meter like no other, so who knows. Maybe Ma an Pa Keller sat Anna down and said -- look lots of people have these flaws, just like your daddy did -- it doesn't make them unmarriable, instead it'll be your duty as a wife to fix him AND he's a Duggar with money so ain't no way you're turning him down . . . .

Maybe it's just me (I haven't read every single post), but I DON'T blame JB and Michelle for the fact that this happened. I blame them 100% for the aftermath -- not reporting it for 3-4 yrs until forced; not sending Josh to counseling and instead just letting him go to some mentor in the remodeling business; forcing Jana, Jill, Jessa, Jinger to be around him -- like that trip to Florida before the wedding, going to DC to watch his kids etc. But I am not buying the -- what do you expected he was a sexually repressed male who couldn't hug a girl -- theory. I'm sorry but what 14 yr old boy isn't sexually repressed? They all want it all the time, and most cannot get any. Yet the vast vast majority seem to realize that shoving their hands up their sister's skirt or squeezing her boobs is NOT an option. Instead most learn to jerk off as much as they need to. As for those saying -- oh that isn't allowed and he had no one to teach him. Give me a break. How exactly would JB and Michelle have known if he jerked it off in the shower or in bed and didn't say anything?? And that sort of activity isn't taught or discussed even with guy friends -- guys just sort of discover what feels good and keep doing it. And again -- the vast vast majority realize that touching a sister is never an option. Certainly he had to realize that jerking off was a lesser evil than molesting a sibling. If I was Ben and Derick right now, I would -- (i) deck Josh -- if he has made an appearance in Arkansas yet; and (ii) start packing up my $hit and move my wife out of JB's house and tell JB and Michelle you'll see them at Christmas. I would distance myself from JB and take NOTHING from him in an effort to get my wife away from the house of horrors and the "remember we forgave Josh and we women have to be careful not to entice the men, let's pray" BS that is guaranteed happening right now. The wives need to "recover" and it'll only happen if they don't continuously have to keep forgiving Josh and hearing JB and Michelle's "excuses" for how these things happen bc we're all imperfect. Derick is an entry level accountant -- he can most certainly afford rent on an apartment or townhouse for him, Jill, and Iz. Ben -- he honestly needs to head back up to Hot Springs or frankly anywhere that he can find any kind of job with his AA degree -- be it Tulsa or Charlotte or wherever -- and he and Jessa need to set up house and live on his salary and create their own life where they are self supporting.

Josh and Anna seem so over this whole thing and her parents. Seems like they took every opportunity they could to talk back. Everything from Josh saying "TMI pops" when JB once again mentioned they're trying to Anna saying "they were a lot more strict when we were courting." Though some things never change -- Josh just HAD to point out his sisters' flaws by singling out Jana and Jinger for courtship news. Michelle carried that kid as if she's never held a kid before.

This family is likeable -- and much more normal than the Duggars -- but the brothers and sisters seem awfully "close." When Jer announced he was getting married, it almost seemed like some of the older girls were "jealous" of the "other woman" -- as if they are his romantic partners. I mean I don't see anything wrong with a brother sister dance team -- though I do think that dance they kept showing was a bit sexy re boy getting girl -- esp being done by teen siblings. Whichever sister is his dance partner was a bit much re -- his life is going to change, I have a lot of memories with him and now I won't bc of his fiancé, but that's to be expected. It wasn't the usual sibling stuff of -- aw he's going to move out, it was a bit more of "this girl is horning in on OUR relationship." I felt the same watching whichever sister went with Jer to check out the Opryland Hotel, when she said -- she was the one who kept him away from girls that weren't good for him. I realize some brothers and sisters do talk about relationships, but I've never heard a sibling act like it was their job or their decision to keep their older brother away from certain women. It may just be how they interact. After all while they aren't as secluded or separated as the Duggars, they are homeschooled and in a family band so much of their time is spent together. But still -- it's an odd way for brothers and sisters to interact. The brothers don't seem into it as much as the sisters either. In a previous episode some sister said something about Jedi and the other teen boy his age could be lady killers, but we don't let them. Yet not one of the boys has said anything re -- a man needs to be good enough to take care of my sister.

I think Ben is into healthy eating to some extent -- when they first got married, they were posting pictures of smoothies and omelets and I vaguely recall some discussion of him liking salads. But he's also a 19 or 20 yr old boy who is likely still growing. Teen boys can put down an enormous number of calories and still not gain weight; given that he's a gym rat, he probably needs fast food/fattening food once in a while to compensate for all his working out.

While I'm not typically a fan of Ben, I think the AA degree is a good thing and will serve him well. Who knows how the preaching career will turn out. But at least with the AA, he can be gainfully employed outside of JB's fold if he chooses or needs to. Even training programs or apprenticeships for being in construction or being a mechanic require some kind of HS degree and an AA can only help; also with an AA -- in anything -- he could always go back to school for further training in something more lucrative like being an ultrasound tech or lab tech or something -- without having to start with English 101. It just gives him options besides working on JB's properties -- should he ever decide he wants to be his own man, he can no longer be beholden to JB, and/or he and Jessa want to move away to get the hell away from the Duggar family.

If I were Josh I'd be a bit jealous right about now. He expressed an interest in being a lawyer and his parents neither provided him the fundamental education he needed in high school, nor encouraged him to pursue any higher education -- instead shoving him into a used car lot. College was too "risky" bc he may have had to sit next to purple haired heathens. And then Derick comes along with a full fledged 4 yr business degree from state school where he was partying it up on football weekends, and it's totally fine to hand Jilly Muffin off to such a man. And then here comes Ben who was seemingly dabbling in college and JB didn't make him but a stop to that to marry Jessa -- instead he gets to graduate with an associates. I mean it isn't shocking -- first kids often get hosed bc parents are more careful and conservative about everything and then turn around and allow those same things for younger kids. But in this instance -- they changed their minds pretty quick; it's not like Derick and Ben are decades younger than Josh.

Somehow I think the -- JB told Marjorie to wear skirts -- thing is totally false. It just doesn't seem like JB's MO. While JB will grill the potential sons in law to make sure they are "man enough" to have one of his daughters, I don't see him interacting with potential daughters in law. Honestly I think he probably doesn't know what to say to a young woman unless he's talking to one of his older daughters about babysitting or making babies, and I think he's probably also hyper vigilant about conversing with a female who isn't his daughter esp since he's somewhat of a celebrity and accusations can be made -- I mean look at Gothard. I think if JB had a problem with Marjorie's attire or behavior or anything, he'd relay it to Josiah along the lines of "control your woman." When Josiah didn't or couldn't, he'd take it out on Josiah -- either more ALERT or just constant comments about how he isn't as much of a man as JB or Josh. Or if he didn't take it up with Josiah, I could see him maybe possibly taking it up with Marjorie's father, though I don't really even see that bc JB seems like the kind of dude who is self appointed king of his own castle but can't go up against other men for fear of losing; I mean if Marjorie's father said -- MYOB we are good Christians and I am not going to tell my daughter to be in skirts bc it's YOUR preference -- I'm not sure JB would have anything to come back with. At most I could see JB appointing Michelle to have this conversation with the girl or her mom since it's a women's issue. Of the many bad things in this family -- it does happen in other families where someone doesn't like something about a potential spouse and says it to them -- often along the lines of -- we are x religion and expect you to convert to marry our son/daughter. More often than not, that potential spouse later turns to their boy/girlfriend and says -- look I love you but I'm marrying you not your parents, so if you want to marry me -- you nip this in the bud with them bc I won't deal with it. And the boyfriend stands up to his parents and tells them to butt out. In this case the kids have no education or careers and are dependent on JB for housing (Josiah explicitly said 'fingers crossed' w respect to getting a house out of JB) -- they can't possibly tell JB to butt out. Instead if any "requests" or "suggestions" are made by JB or Michelle on any issue -- I can see Josiah -- tail between his legs-- saying to Marjorie "I'm sorry but we need to keep my parents happy, can you just do it for now and you can stop after the wedding?"

I had high hopes for the Duggar inlaws and so far all have been duds. I can already tell Marjorie is a dud. Sure she wears pants and takes college classes, but at the end of the day she is an irritating theater kid who I suspect realizes the biggest stage in NW Arkansas is at the Duggar plantation. She's grown up around them, so she knows them enough to know she could deal with Josiah -- he's not a macho male and seems to be the type who could get into the stuff she likes -- theater and show tunes and the like. And getting with him will get her 15 min of fame on TLC, which I suspect she hopes will parlay into some B level celebrity role somewhere. What I think she doesn't get -- unless she and Josiah have explicitly agreed otherwise -- is that they'll be married and having sex by 18 and have a kid by age 19, which really cuts down the options as far as being a guest host on some B level show that tapes in LA or NYC. She will do what it takes to fit in with the Duggars bc she wants her time on camera - so I'm thinking it will be laid on her heart to wear skirts at least for filming. I also think she has a loud personality, so Michelle will constantly be threatened by her, as well as Jill who is used to being the center of attention as the first girl married and popping out a kid. I think Jill will be competing with Marjorie on the baby making.

That's a tough pregnancy -- not even just the physical discomfort of shots, but having to keep up with them every 12-24 hrs while knowing that it's not a guarantee that there won't be complications for mom or baby. I honestly hope they go through this one more time (if they want another) and say -- you know what, most people in America have 2 kids, that's more than plenty for us given how tough pregnancy is.

I don't know how comfortable Cathy would be in talking to her grown married son about his sex life and condoms -- I mean she isn't Jim Bob. But I could see her subtly suggesting that they space out kids -- enjoy Israel for a while and not miss any of his toddler milestones bc they have a new infant etc. I could also see her privately saying it to Derick in terms of -- Walmart is great but the don't give enough pay raises, you really have to think about college costs for your kids etc. I can see Dan being much more direct -- but he can talk to his bro about sex more than a mom can. I mean it's clear both Cathy and Dan are thrilled with Iz, but I highly doubt they'll be thrilled with a pregnancy every yr. I mean when Cathy called them to say happy anniversary and they said -- we're expecting -- her first response which she didn't even try to hide was "already!?" Thing is -- Derick is so into the Duggar family and their ridiculous beliefs, that I highly doubt he'd truly consider what his mother and brother think, even if it's for his own good. He may nod along politely, but in his heart be thinking -- God wants us to have a Quiverful, you and dad sinned by not doing that, but I'm not about to commit that sin just bc you want me to.

Do they really want to start trying in 2 weeks, get pregnant fast, and have a 2nd baby in February when baby #1 is like 10 months old?? I'm sure Jill does, but I think Derick's head might explode. I'm not suggesting that he's unhappy with his wife or family -- I'm sure he isn't. But in just a few years, he has graduated college, gone to Nepal for 2 yrs, courted a girl via Skype, returned and started his first professional job, proposed to said girl, gotten married like 4 months later, gotten her pregnant like 5 hrs after putting a ring on it, and welcomed a child 9 months later. How about taking some time to breathe -- and maybe put some weight back on and just relax and enjoy the child you have and get to the point where you're reliably sleeping nights before making the next baby!?

Looks like he was born at 36-37 weeks. Probably safer for him to be out anyway -- to make sure neither mom or baby suffer complications from her clotting disorder. Chad must be so happy and relieved. I mean of course Erin is, but Chad always seemed so miserable and teary when talking about their miscarriages and he just looked so wistful when they were at Zach and Whitney's baby shower and again when they visited Z&W in the hospital; in the hospital it as obvious -- he was standing behind his wife with his chin/face on her shoulder looking like he wanted to cry; Erin seemed like she was more focused on Z&W. Maybe I'm giving them too much of a benefit of the doubt, but given the 3 miscarriages they endured, followed by enduring daily shots to make sure this pregnancy stuck, along with general worry not just what first time parents experience but also that Carson didn't end up in the NICU or with health problems -- I think they're just going to enjoy this child for a while and won't be trying in 6 weeks or 4 weeks or whatever is allowed for fundies. I wouldn't be surprised if they opted for birth control -- even if NFP -- after the year or two they've had -- esp if a doctor tells them that Erin can't keep having miscarriages or be on shot regimens more than x number of times. I think Chad probably wants a quiverful but is deeply in love with his wife -- you can see it in his eyes; if one child is all that was safe for Erin, he'd live happily with their family of 3. Realistically I can see them trying for 3-5 kids -- not the 12 or 18 that's the normal in this cult.

The majority of the younger kids seem delayed to me -- I don't say that to be rude, and I don't mean it in a physical or mental way as I'm not an MD. But they seem "behind" where kids are socially at that age. I know everyone talks about Josie, but the two sisters she interviews with don't seem age level to me either. If Josie is 5, those 2 sisters are likely ages 6 through 8. That's kids in 1st, 2nd or 3rd grade. Most kids in that age range are fairly articulate -- they can understand you, answer questions rationally, answer questions in ways that you understand etc. Sure if there's a speech delay, there may be a lisp or something but by that age it's no big deal. In this case, I feel like I never have any idea what's going on when those 3 girls are interviewed. Jackson and the 2 sisters he interviews with are no better. (No idea if they're the same girls as with Josie.) I always find myself shocked that Jackson is 10-11 yrs old now; that's a 5th or 6th grade boy. He acts like and talks like a 1st grade boy. Not all the howlers seem delayed to me, but these 2 particular groups do. OTOH -- the sarcastic kid on Jill's buddy team who went on dates with her and Derick (James?) seems pretty age appropriate, as does whichever brother was asked -- what type of prank would you play on Jackson on his wedding day and he responded -- "I don't know, steal his girl!?" Though I imagine each younger kid was even more ignored than the one that came before, so by the time you get down to the little girls -- it's pretty much a disaster.

Yeah but they couched it in the typical -- if God leads them to it, they can go to college and have a career and we'd be ok with it. Except that in 18 more yrs when Derick is 100% a Duggar, Iz may not even understand the value of higher education or if he does and asks to go to college -- Derick and Jill will do the -- well this is a BIG decision, let's pray on it. And lo and behold the prayer will yield an answer of NO, lest their son have to go to college and sit next to green haired heathens or tank top wearing hussies. So I feel like this is all talk and they only did the Pistol Pete segment in response to internet criticism to show -- look Derick is different, he went to college and we're cool with that. It's insulting that they are SO against education and yet you have Josh leading a prayer thanking God for the doctors. All those doctors and nurses who got your sister out of her week long labor without harming your nephew -- gasp -- they went to college and med school and took their chances of having to talk to heathens in order to learn how to save lives . . . . Yes she did say "he's so cute, he's not ugly." I get it -- lots of babies can be ugly when they're born - bruises etc. But REALLY? What mother has that has her first reaction to her first child?? Jessa had an interview where she said something along the lines of -- Jill has been really calm through this 10 day long labor. And you could see her face saying "oh HELL NO -- if I'm in labor more than 6 or 8 hrs, I want drugs ASAP and if they think it'll be another day or two, off to a C-section I go." And their kids don't know what a gag gift is?? Jackson is about 10-11 yrs old, though he acts like he's about 6. That's about 5th-6th grade age. You'd be hard pressed to find a 5th grade boy who doesn't know about gag gifts. Must be the Duggar isolation, as this is the kind of thing you pick up from your 10 yr old peers, though their kids don't have any.

Could only focus on the last half hr as I didn't have time for 90 min of filler -- but what is wrong with them?! They went from the hospital to the Duggars? Is it a good idea for a 4 day old to be around 21 other kids -- many small ones who always seem to have runny noses? I was surprised that they didn't go inside. And what husband in his right mind would say 4 days after a c section -- can we have another?! And what wife would gush "oh yeah he's so cute, we have to have more." Um -- you just had this one less than a week ago. Derick definitely comes across like a dork, which I guess is an ok role for fundie men -- see JB, Josh, John David etc.

We haven't seen enough of them to know their true personalities -- but Chad strikes me like the type who likes to be needed, likes to help, and enjoys having a project outside of work at all time. While I'm sure he's doing a lot for his and Erin's house -- I don't imagine he has a project every single week; so I can imagine him being over a the Bates' home and then saying -- you know we're going to get someone to re finish that old dining table (or whatever) in the garage, and him piping up saying - oh I'm done Carson's room next week, I can help after that. I don't think they're forcing him to help. I mean he could easily have weaseled out of things and/or kept his talents to himself. Just after he got married, he was shown at the Bates home giving the youngest boys haircuts. I mean if he wasn't interested, he easily could have said -- sorry I have never cut a baby's hair before and don't feel comfortable with clippers near them. Chad seems to want to be involved, while John seems like he's happy to do a visit 1-2 times a yr to keep Alyssa happy, but otherwise would be horrified if he had to jump in on a task while visiting.

It's not odd for this family -- they don't practice what they preach. You can't touch your significant other but for a side hug with Mama and Daddy counting how many seconds you're hugging, but it was fine to bring Ben to the Bates's wedding, he was seen at a few book signing/campaign events, and ultimately moved into his girlfriend's house before marriage. But apparently they didn't give away pieces of their heart like those dating heathens would. And yeah -- Josiah is short. I don't know how short, but there was an episode -- maybe where he was learning to drive -- where JB made fun of him for it; Michelle stood there and said "stop" while laughing like a loon -- much like she did when whichever kid got his head stuck in the banister.

Maybe Tyler is realizing that Catelynn is the ONLY reason that Brandon and Teresa haven't closed the adoption. I love how he said -- they usually text you back within a day, they never get back to me. Maybe take a hint Tyler.

Didn't see it but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. That home is ruled by fear and accountability to parents -- not by accountability to self or God. So what better deterrent esp to an older daughter if she is lying in bed having impure thoughts or God forbid doing something impure, that they can look up and see Mama and Daddy looking at them and stop immediately from fear of parental wrath if they somehow found out. I only hope the boys are subject to this as well, but I highly doubt it. There's got to be some serious jacking off happening in the boys' room, and if the girls are subject to having to see their parents faces during the act -- the boys should too.