cereality

He's a teen/lower 20s yr old boy in a very conservative culture. He thinks about sex, what girls are hot etc. and he didn't want that becoming public. Though he didn't realize that with wisdom tooth surgery, he wasn't going to want to talk and if he did -- it's unlikely they'd understand him. At least Gil and Kelly seem like cool parents who'd laugh it off. Unlike their fundie friends -- who'd probably send a teen off to reprogramming camp if he uttered anything sexual even under sedation.

I would have thought that someone as cute as Brandon would have some sex appeal -- even once in a while. He has ZERO. There are lots of people who are conservative, but you can see them letting loose and having fun with friends -- even if it's just chatting and eating pizza while not drinking. Brandon -- I can picture him and Michael going to bed at 9 pm every night, when he will change into his old man pajamas -- button ups with matching top and bottom, and then they will sit in bed and read silently until the goodnight peck at 10 pm which will be the sign to turn off the lights. I can picture them living like the couple from the Brady Bunch. Sex will be marked on the calendar 2x a month and will be thought of as an obligation just like taking out the garbage or a business meeting. Seriously -- he is so young and gives off the vibe that he's studying for the priesthood . . . . He is so over her family though -- at least her siblings. He smiles and gives polite responses, but his hesitations -- like when he said he didn't want to try on the tux bc Tori and Carlin say the first thing that comes to mind -- show that he can't stand them. If the Bates require chaperones, why do Tori and Carlin think that means participating in the date, rather than just going along? I mean if they want to lobby for white gold rings or brown tuxes or whatever -- can't they lobby their sister before going out and then keep their mouths shut? And if they can't -- knowing that it annoys Brandon (I mean I hope Michael can read her man enough to know), why doesn't Michael bring different chaperones? I imagine the preteen boys or even Trace or Nathan wouldn't care about the bowtie color or the ring style and would just stand there. It was nice to see Carlin (or Tori?) at college last episode though. It's nice to see that Bates kids aren't on the same leash as the Duggars and are allowed to venture out and have their own lives and friends. Carlin said that the social part of college is where it's at, and she was shown eating lunch with a group of students at school including -- gasp -- a boy. Erin has said she met her best friend at college, so it's nice that they can go to school and have their own lives and friends other than their siblings.

I didn't get that Kelly was managing expectations that Michael's wedding wouldn't be as big as Erin's because it wasn't the first; if anything it sounds like Michael really does want a small wedding and would be perfectly ok with 200-300 guests. She was the one who said she'd rather have a wedding like Zach's -- at 500 -- than Erin or Alyssa's larger parties. Does a 500 person party necessarily have to be outdoors? I would think not - because I seem to recall Chad and Erin being indoors with 800. But the BBQ chicken makes me wonder if this will be an outdoor grilling out kind of reception. At an outdoor event in the heat of August down south in Tennessee, I would certainly stay away from serving any mayo based salads like pasta salad or potato salad or anything; it's just too hard to keep them at the right temperature -- frankly I'd stay away from them indoors too. I think they can throw a fairly nice lunch with BBQ chicken and/or burgers on the grill -- all they need is a few guys willing to be grill masters and I'm sure some of their fundie friends will step up in volunteer; if not, I can see Chad, John, and Zach handling that -- they're already married, they don't "need" to mingle at a big fundie event to find their bride. Throw that together with some sides like potato chips, salad/chopped veggies with an oil based dip, wedding cake, and maybe something like watermelon and a huge amounts of lemonade and you've got a nice casual lunch. It won't be like the Duggars serving a Dixie cup of ice cream out in the parking lot.

This makes me feel bad for a her a bit bc I think she is someone who wants someone to "want" her -- the way her brothers in law are with her sisters. Chad is generally the romantic type -- bringing home flowers for Erin for no reason. And John -- I'm not sure what he's like, but it seems like they have fun together spontaneously whether it's date nights or ball games or just Starbucks runs. With Brandon I feel like everything will be "scheduled" --i.e. my dad told me women need to be romanced, so once a month date night -- check; once a quarter -- flowers -- check. And in their culture and esp with a "traditional" guy like Brandon, I don't get the sense Michael could or would ever speak up. Though I guess it won't matter that much as I'm guessing she'll have a child at this time next yr and then her life will be about raising the baby and his will be about spending all the time he can outside of work with the baby. I see them being that couple that ONLY talks about their kids and 20 yrs from now when all the kids are gone have very little to say to each other.

I laughed at "hello this is Brandon" too. I feel like she called him at work and that's how he answers the work phone. Though most people recognize their sweetheart's number and will not do the "formal intro" when they pick up that call, but he seems like a formal guy. Honestly he seems like he can either be formal OR smiley/cheesy/giving off effeminate vibes -- with no other personality types in between. There's something about this marriage that strikes me as a "business deal" in his mind -- as in, I will provide for you financially and emotionally, you will provide me heirs and raise them. Even when they were talking about churches, it seemed so "matter of fact." I realize guys don't get super excited about wedding planning, but sometimes they get excited for what their fiancé wants -- he sounded like he was telling her to book a conference room.

The way Brandon was vetoing dates, it sounded work related to me -- like, nope -- I don't have the time off. Though I was also thinking -- doesn't he work for Gothard/ATI which WANTS him to get married and produce kids quickly, wouldn't they give him time off a weekend earlier or later?? If there is an ATI conference on the 19th -- well, he's all business. I can see him saying -- we'll be done with wedding stuff on the afternoon of the 15th (most likely -- I don't think these guys do night time receptions since they don't do the dancing or drinking thing). That gives us the evening of the 15th through the 18th to consummate and I'm guessing also to spend a lot of time praying together. And then the night of the 18th they leave whatever mountain cabin they "honeymooned" at to go to Indianapolis. Sounds very romantic . . . . I think the rest of her siblings took regular honeymoons -- Chad and Erin took a fabulous trip to Ireland; Zach and Whitney spent like 2 weeks in Hawaii; and I'm not sure where Alyssa and John went but I think it was a few weeks on the west coast. But the rest of them seemed more "traditional" in the way they showed romance; I think they wanted nothing more than to be away with their spouse for a few weeks before getting back to work etc. Brandon on the other hand acts like this marriage is a business deal -- he will provide for her monetarily, she will provide and raise the heirs. So he probably sees no need to honeymoon more than 3 days. Sad thing is I have a feeling Michaela probably wants to be romanced the way her sisters/sister in law were -- but she's so beholden to the guy, I can never see her saying anything. I think she'd be like -- it's ok -- it's God's will that Brandon go back to work so I'm ok with a few days in a cabin in Michigan, I don't NEED to go to Hawaii.

I imagine that if Michael chose her mother as MOH, it's because SHE wanted to not because Kelly forced it. While they are fundie, this family doesn't seem to be against friendships. We've seen Erin with a best friend from college, Alyssa with friends from John's hometown, Lawson and Nathan meeting friends on missions. It doesn't seem like a family where a 25 yr old sister is expected to say -- my best friends are all my sisters esp the 2 yr old. Nor does it seem like a family that friends can only be from other mega fundie families. Point is -- is Michael wanted a friend as MOH -- I can't imagine Kelly saying -- no it has to be ME. At most I've heard parents who try to inject a brother/sister as best man/MOH and have friends as groomsmen/bridesmaids on the reasoning that -- you don't know if you'll still be friends with your best friend in 20 yrs but your brother is your brother for life. So I could see Kelly saying -- well, I think you should pick a sister as MOH not a friend; I don't see her saying -- nope, no friends, no sisters as MOH -- it's MY turn. She just doesn't seem that pushy.

Oh yeah -- I remember that looked; he looked so much better when he was courting/getting married than he does now. He just looked like a healthier, happier person -- even despite the fact that the wedding he was looking pretty skinny with huge dark circles as he likely hadn't been sleeping much and/or crying and worrying a lot bc his mom was so sick. Even that look was healthier than his current one. Marrying into Duggar insanity and getting swept up in it did this to him. He would have been so much better off if he married her -- said look I love you but I can't live with your family down my throat, we're moving just 1 state away -- far enough away to have our own independence and life and yet close enough to not be missing the family terribly as we could drive back every few weeks. Hell he could have taken her back to Oklahoma City -- pretty sure he can get a job in that city with an accounting degree from the state's flagship school located right there.

Given that life in developing countries is not as cushy as the U.S. -- water shortages/outages; you don't always have showerheads and often bathe with a bucket etc. -- you'd think Derick would see this as a time to cut his hair short before leaving, not grow it out. If you're going to grow out your hair, you have to tend to it a bit -- use some product etc. to make it look passable. Why not make things easy for right now and just get a buzz cut? As for whether Jill will last -- I highly doubt they are going some place without indoor plumbing. I imagine they will have a toilet and tub of some variety -- it's just that developing countries have electric and water shortages all the time and thus have rolling brownouts/water shut offs often every day. And I've never been to any developing country where you can just use/drink water from the tap like in the U.S. -- there's always a filteration process and if you're not some place where those filters are attached right to the faucets, you are then boiling water every day (multiple times a day) and using that for cooking, drinking etc. It's going to be a pain for her and she's going to have to stay on top of it esp with a baby. Though the nice thing about every developing country is that labor is cheap. That means even middle/lower middle class people have some hired help -- not like the U.S. where only the rich can afford full time hired help bc you have to pay 30-40k if you do it on the up and up. That means Jill will find herself a young girl from the village who can be Iz's nanny; which will be super helpful esp when she's pregnant with no. 2 and doesn't feel like chasing a 1 yr old or when she just wants a break from him. In the best of all scenarios, I'd love for her to find a young woman in her late teens/early 20s who can work for Jill but also become friendly with her -- they can practice Spanish and English w each other; she can tell her what life in those villages is REALLY like and how 99% of people would do ANYTHING for an education; maybe that'll make the light turn on for Jill that there are people in the world who so value an 8th or 12th grade education while my family has schools in their backyard available for free and refuses to use them -- that's effed up.

Because when he asked her to court he took her some restaurant in Michigan that had a dark, medieval type of vibe and then he pulled out some ridiculous fairytale he had written -- that was practically the size of a novel -- and read it to her/gave it to her. It was the whole knight in shining armor w his princess thing that seemed ridiculously over the top for two people who barely knew each other. I wonder how she decided that Brandon was THE ONE upon seeing/meeting him for the first time? What exactly did he say that made her think -- I have to marry this one?? Or is it just that she was the "fat ugly" sister (she's not but I have a sense she thinks she is) compared to Erin and Alyssa and a guy walked by and said hi and she thought -- OMG someone likes me, I have to lock this up!? Or was it love at first sight -- I mean he's handsome but so are any number of other guys. Why exactly would she pine for him for 5 yrs and beg him to make a move, when he was dragging his feet and kind of showing a lack of interest? Does she really think there were no other fish in the sea for her? Did she think -- I've been working on this guy for 3 yrs, may as well keep pursuing until I wear him down -- I mean Erin and Alyssa are my little sisters and getting married so I HAVE to make this work and get a ring too?

I think many (most?) fundie men aren't all that manly to start with and then when they're with a woman, they're even more effeminate as they try to act nice and sweet to her. I definitely think that of Chad every time he gets tears in his eyes talking about -- a proposal is her dream and I don't want to mess it up; or how desparately he wants to give Erin a baby. I don't mean that other guys don't feel that way -- but their affect is different when discussing such things. However when you see Chad with Zach -- it seems like two brothers in law just talking about "dude I can't believe I'm going to be a dad, I'm so not ready . . . ." With Brandon, he's effeminate around Michaela with his giggles and surprised looks, but he's also effimate around dudes which is just weird. His giggling and "oh my gosh" reactions to the ring were a little less than masculine and the "OMG can I HOLD the ring" was like -- really dude?! I am guessing he doesn't associate with any regular non-fundie guys bc 25 yr old guys wouldn't let you live it down if you came across like that; seems like he's never had a friend tell him that it isn't exactly an appropriate reaction for a straight male.

I only caught the beginning of the episode and will have to watch the rest but initial thoughts -- Alyssa and John are so not into the big family. Gil said they texted that Alyssa had gone into labor and they were rushing to arrive before the birth, yet before they got to the airport -- John texted a pic of Allie. Me thinks they wanted to make damn sure this event would be 100% private/devoid of siblings so they texted "she's in labor" after the kid had already arrived and then a few hours later texted the pic. I mean the kid was already in a onesie and ridiculous headband by then so it didn't seem like a -- she just popped out, here's the first pic -- type of thing. Seems like they had plenty of time to relax, bond, get her dressed up and then take pics. It was nice to see Kelly and Gil respecting what Alyssa and John want, even if they don't love it in their heart of hearts. I could see the Duggars saying -- privacy -- ha -- you live half a country away, if you're due Monday, we're arriving the Friday prior with all 19 kids just to make sure we're there in time, you'll just be sitting around waiting for labor to start anyway -- why does it matter if you have 21 extra people in the house! With Gil and Kelly it was nice to see them show up with gifts for the baby, do their grocery shopping, pull their weeds (though not really the first task on any new father's mind), and when they were eating dinner -- Gil was the one making plates and handing them to Alyssa and John -- rather than expecting them to wait on him. Kelly so obviously loves her kids and grandkids; she acted like a "real" grandma -- grabbed Allie and seems like she held her the entire time she was there. Brandon seems so . . . effeminate. I know a lot of fundie guys aren't that manly, but ew. And he's not that into her. He does like her and probably even loves her like a friend, but I just don't see him being as interested as she is. I think he's a fundie guy -- training for some role within that world -- he wants to have a quiverful; so he needs to get with a girl who shares his values and will be a good mom and let him run his family how he pleases. Michaela fills that role, but honestly if some other girl had pursued him -- she could fill that role too. Michaela has acted so desperate for so long that her family basically clarifies that she's desperate. Some combo of Josie/Carlin/Tory said stuff about how she's been waiting 5 yrs for this. Erin went on about how she was worried he'd NEVER propose. I realize their worldview is small -- if you're 25 (or frankly even 35 or 45) and a boyfriend moves on, is it the end of the world? I mean sure we all want someone, but ideally you want someone who also wants you -- not someone who is thinking -- eh, she's nice enough and she'll give me kids, fine, I can make it work. Seems like the Keilens aren't anti education, or even if they are they let their adult kids live their own lives. Brandon hasn't strayed off the path. Looking at her linkedin in, it seems like Brandon's sister works for some think tank kind of organization in DC. I don't really understand those DC jobs so I don't know how important she is or not but she's listed as an Executive Assistant to the President of the organization -- not clear if that's secretarial or a fancy DC title. In any event she lives in Old Town Alexandria which isn't exactly cheap, so she's making it work. And she has a college degree and is pursuing a masters at George Washington university.

They came across so refreshingly normal for fundies. Nathan is smitten and was totally flirting -- from the very familiar hug to just the general smiling and laughing at everything one of the sisters said to practically having his arms around her and reaching over her to point out the mountain view -- which Lawson made fun of him for. Even Zach said that his brothers would show off for girls and the pre-teen brothers all recognized it was flirting. It's nice to see it bc that's what a 21 yr old male should be like. They can call it "get to know you" or courting or whatever -- but it is dating. Sure there are a lot more family members around, but there are lots of people esp these days who don't view dating as a dinner and a movie but rather as mostly hanging out with friends and family. I think that Nathan and Lawson can be a bit rude about the "south is better - you're a Yankee thing," though in this case it was clear that the sisters could dish it out and take it -- so it didn't come across that bad. It was rude with Brandon who is a really quiet guy and had nothing to say, so then it sounded like they were criticizing where he was from and telling him where he should be living. They do come off a little country bumpkin-ish -- but that's what they are. They've spent their whole lives in the Tn. mountains and can't seem to wrap their minds around the fact that some people don't ride horses regularly or live in housing situations where there are a lot of front doors next to each other and shared walls (um -- apartments or row homes, anyone) or don't have backyards or backyards with no grass (uh -- a patio adds a LOT to property value in NYC even if it's just a few feet of private outdoor space behind your apartment). I hope they were a bit more gracious and open minded about these things when they were visiting the girls in the Bronx bc making these observations outright sounds like a critical putdown -- unless the girls' parents can also dish it out and have no problem making a few backwater Tenn jokes. Can't remember if Erin's baby shower was the same episode -- but bringing up miscarriages and doing a tribute to those babies at a happy event!? WTF?! I get what she was doing, but in what universe is Amazing Grace a song that you hear at a happy event? And no matter what Erin said about how touched she was -- she was hurt/sad by the miscarriages being brought up and being such a huge part of her shower; I mean she didn't just wipe tears away once -- for the entire 5-10 min it must have taken to gather everyone, go outside, sing, release the balloons -- Erin can be seen wiping away tears. Way to make a new mom feel happy.

I don't think it's possible to be less interested in a sibling/child leaving than that video demonstrates. Why even post it once you shot it and it came out THAT bad? Pa Duggar spews his normal stuff about God's will for a while and no one else has anything to say including Jill's mother. I get it -- the real goodbyes happened at a different time and this was for social media, but give me a break. It's still your daughter/son in law/sister/bro in law leaving for another country -- you'd think you could stir up emotion twice -- once for the real goodbye and once for the fake one. I mean when Jill was hugging people, Derick was standing there awkwardly as no one was hugging or even talking to him. Finally Michelle and Jinger did a 2 second side hug with him after an awkwardly long time of him standing there. The family relations in that family are effed - besides within Jill's own buddy team. When JB starts spewing about -- this is what happens, when you marry a missionary and he marries a missionary -- Derick walks across the crowd and hugs her from behind possessively. He may have been thinking -- stay away from my wife, you've done enough damage already, we're going in large part to get away from you. As for Derick's look -- I'm not making fun of his face or even what he looks like with braces bc that isn't in his control. But doesn't he look a little too disheveled? When we met him in Nepal, he had long-ish hair (or at least didn't gel it) and a beard -- but he still looked like he showered and took some interest in his general appearance and this was while living in a developing country where showering means pouring buckets of water on yourself as you don't always have showerheads everywhere. Once he was back and working at WMT -- he looked clean cut even with the beard. Now he just looks like an unruly mess -- needs a haircut, a beard trim, and often looks like he hasn't showered in a few days and looks like he's even thinner though he had no weight to lose. Isn't it a sign of depression/anxiety/something going on when someone who used to take care of their appearance suddenly stops making any effort at all? Though I mean after the 1.5 yrs he's had -- courting long distance, returning from Nepal, courting for a few months, engaged, married, pregnant 2 seconds later, starts a new job, deals with a newborn and a wife who is ridiculously clingy and has an overbearing family, learns his wife was molested as a child, quits his job and decides life on the road is for them -- I mean who wouldn't be a bit stressed!?

For those who think they'll collect enough money that they'll live an "American" life in a developing country, that's easier said than done. In many places no matter how much money you have there just isn't construction that is at all comparable to the U.S. -- in most countries, even the most luxurious of homes are much smaller, may not have amenities like central AC or a dishwasher or a dryer, and may be subject to water outages and electrical brown outs just like all other neighborhoods and a generator may only run few necessary lights and not everything else. On those HGTV homes, often the couple will end up in a more American style, larger home than what you can get in town -- so maybe that's an option if Derick is willing to go to a developing country and put a sign on his family's back that they are outsiders who don't speak the language, have the money to be living in a large home outside of town with the husband being gone all day -- and just a wife and child home alone. Sometimes no matter how much money you have, it's better to live like the locals and blend in so as not to attract the attention of anyone who may want to take advantage of your family. Frankly Derick looked pretty happy in a tiny apartment in Nepal, wandering the town on foot, making friends with locals, and eating at the local establishments -- I kind of hope he gets that set up again and Jilly Muffin learns to adjust, rather than them springing for a big, distant home somewhere where they're separated from the locals and Jill is just watching the clock all day waiting for him to come home -- as she did with WMT

While I'm personally partial to using a college degree and going down the white collar professional road, I don't really think this is a terrible thing for Derick and Jill. It's not like he just came up with this overnight. He has been on a mission trip outside the country for 1-2 years and knows what it entails and always said he wanted to go back -- and now he's doing that. I think most of us -- including me -- thought yeah yeah, you did that when you're young but now with a wife and a new kid yearly, you're not going back for anything more than a 2 week trip. Well -- seems like for once he stuck to his guns and they're doing what he said he wanted. Who knows how Derick really is bc we only see the TLC version of him, but maybe he is someone who fell in love with the "simplicity" of life overseas. I have known people who left the U.S. and went to much poorer countries only to be THRILLED with life there. They aren't people who need or want a suburban McMansion; they are happy living in a 2 bedroom flat in a crowded city. They don't mind that there are electric blackouts or water shortages or no central AC -- it's just a fact of life. OTOH they like the sense of "community" in those kinds of places. Derick seemed a bit like that from what little we saw of him in Nepal -- tiny apartment; wandering through the little shops through a maze of alleys in pure comfort; introducing Jill to a shopkeeper that was his friend. It's different in the U.S esp in the suburbs -- you get into your giant SUV to drive to Target where no one knows you or cares to know; unlikely you're making friends there. Maybe Derick is drawn to that kind of life and a life that will just be about him and his wife having to bond together and figure it out -- without JB in his face and Jill's siblings hanging out at his house. While I am sure Cathy is feeling a twinge of sadness that he and Iz are leaving, I think she also may be relieved that her son is doing something that HE said he wanted to do for yrs. I'm sure she has been less than thrilled at his conversion into a Duggar, and she may feel that him pursuing a mission trip that he wants to do is light years better than him quitting WMT bc Jill doesn't want him to work 40 hrs week and working for Jim Bob instead doing God knows what.

Does this mean they're not trying for baby #2? Or they are trying and would be perfectly fine having baby #2 born in Central America or Nepal or wherever even though that wouldn't make him 'Merican??

I'm a millennial myself -- also on the cusp -- and what you are saying is true for SINGLE millennials. It's one thing to job hop and leave a job at the only big company in town to pursue your passion for ministry or anything else when it's JUST you. A single person doesn't need that much and can get by. But by the time you have a wife (who doesn't work and never will) -- and baby, everyone including millennials finds the need to establish some kind of income source that's steady (or as steady as possible in this economy). I'm sure you're seeing people job hopping into their late 20s and even mid to early 30s -- but in large part bc those people are also settling down later; so they can quit a job they hate, pick up catastrophic insurance for like $20/month, coast for a while, and then pick up an unpaid internship in something they think will be their dream job and see how that goes. As for Derick -- no he doesn't have an income source. As of right now their TV show is suspended, and we don't even know how much of the 19 kids money was going to Jill anyway, rather than JB. And we don't know if any spin off will go forward, or if it does -- will it last beyond a few episodes or a season? It's ridiculously dumb to hinge your livelihood on a TV show -- esp when you have the skills and education to be doing something else -- when you are at best a B or C level celebrity; it takes about a minute for reality stars to become yesterdays news and in this case they could easily be eclipsed by the Bates or the Willises. And yeah ACA has made insurance easy to get, but all those statements of -- you can have coverage for $20/month are aimed at people in Derick's situation. They are aimed at 20-somethings who never had any coverage at all, so high deductible catastrophic coverage is better than nothing. Guaranteed that is not the coverage you want with a baby -- they need shots; they get ear infections; they go to the dr a LOT when they are little. Also not the kind of coverage you want with a wife who will be pregnant yearly and may require c sections. Coverage for 3 people who need at least decent coverage isn't cheap -- whether under ACA or not. I'm not freaking out about him quitting -- but I do think it's a move that he would NEVER have made if he hadn't gotten with Jill and drunk the kool aid re TLC, staying home with the wife 24-7, and "ministering" for a living.

Do the Willis kids support the parents or does the dad do something else for a living? I like the family overall -- despite the fundy beliefs, they are a lot more real, connected with each other, not as militant about courting or not hugging or not wearing pants or whatever. But there's something about the parents that comes across very "stage parent" or "you better not screw this up, you're my meal ticket." I think it's just the way they bark out orders that everyone needs to be wearing blue and standing here and be ready to go at x time. I sort of get it, but honestly the older kids are in their late teens and 20s -- by that age, people in a band view it as "theirs" and they're not going to eff up an opportunity for an album release party in Nashville or a photo spread in People; they don't need their mommy yelling at them, they know it's a big deal. If the stage parent thing is true and Jer remaining in the band long term was what turned Mary off, I can kind of see why. She might love him, but maybe she wants an independent life and home -- not a husband who works for his parents who will in turn be screaming at her to get on the bus bc they're late for a photo shoot and she's expected to go wherever Jer goes. What's the deal with the little kids? Do they perform with the band or are they just "brought out" here and there to add to the cuteness? I don't see why a 22 yr old or a 17 yr old would want to be in a band with their 5 yr old sibling, nor do I see what a 5 yr old adds when the older ones are writing and singing the songs and playing the instruments.

If I were Derick's mom I'd be so pissed right now -- while totally realizing that he's a grown man with his own family and there's nothing I could do or say. They apparently raised him in a home with some appreciation for education -- as he went to college and was shown in a high school grad pic wearing a National Honor Society thing on his gown -- and hard work -- as evidenced by the fact that mom was a senior executive and dad was a cop, both professions requiring hard work. So he marries a girl whose family doesn't believe in education for anyone -- boys or girls -- and seems to think it's ok for the men to sit home all day as long as there's passive income coming in from rental properties or cell phone towers or TV contracts and then they can shelter said income with BS non profits and home churches. So her son gets a job at the ONLY multinational in that area and because of the influence of his wife and her family, he walks away in less than 18 months -- bc apparently education and hard work don't matter to him either, and he's rather be appearing at de facto church camps speaking about his relationship. They're not exactly living in an area that is NYC where you can let go of one multinational job, pursue your passions of ministry of whatever, and get picked up by a different multinational down the road bc there are so many. WMT is the major corporate show in that town; if you burn a bridge over there, chances are you aren't getting re-hired. I'm sure his mom knows he is or became a man of God and that's important to him -- but she's conservative herself and has always lived in the bible belt; surely she thought WMT and/or accounting would be his main gig and he could run all the church camps or youth retreats he wanted on the weekend. What was up with Derick's statement at the Ohio event that was quoted in People -- that returning to the U.S, getting engaged, starting a new job, married, and new baby were a lot of changes in one year and they don't know if yr 2 will bring so much change but they'll try?? That means what -- yr 2 will involve quitting his job, having baby #2 and what else?? You'd think he'd want to say -- a lot has happened in a yr, time to sit back and enjoy my wife and son and current life before we do anything drastic again.

They didn't say much about the break up and Jer seemed pretty confused himself saying -- I don't understand the things she was saying, I want to talk to her. He also said something along the lines of -- I don't want to give up what I love and what I'm good at -- meaning the band, when talking about the break up. It's quite possible that they got engaged with her thinking -- oh he's a singer in a family band and he's quick to grab me and start dancing wherever we are, how cute -- and figured he'd get a "real" job before or once they got married and leave the band to the other 11 siblings. He OTOH may have thought -- this is my job, this will pay the bills, she'll go on the road with us until there are babies, and then she'll stay home and I'll see her in between shows as much as I can. He seemed STUNNED at the suggestion that he'd have to give up the band. From the way he answered questions and things that the mom said -- sounds like they weren't sympatico re what married life would look like and the mom says they may end up apart permanently.

So Jill just posted a pic of Derick with some pastor at the event -- definitely a Duggar friendly event. Derick looks rough -- I don't know if it's his braces or his shaggy hair or his weight (he looks even thinner than normal to me), but he looks like a teenager -- and I don't meet that in a hot way but in an immature way. I really wonder what he's going to be doing post-Walmart. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up at one of these churches or as a youth minister or something; it would be so much better for him to have a career separate and apart from the Duggar hoopla -- even if it's just a career with a small accounting shop that isn't super busy and will allow him to take off all the time for the Duggar hoopla.

Chad just seems like he really wanted A kid. Sure maybe he does want 8 or 10 since he grew up fundie, but for starters -- it seemed like he really wanted ONE to cuddle and to raise; he didn't come across the like Duggars with -- oh, we need to have one ASAP bc then we can have a 2nd next yr. It was so cute how thrilled he seemed to be holding Bradley -- even eating with him in his lap -- and when Zach said "do you want us to hold him so you can eat," he said -- I'll give him back when he cries. Now he has Carson to have those moments with and to do all the little boy stuff with in a few years and to raise/mold into a man later on. I could see that being enough for him given how deeply he loves Erin and wouldn't want anything like another pregnancy to harm her. Besides his father and grandfather are doctors, so hopefully they understand how serious the situation is for Erin to be pregnant and hopefully they've convinced the women in the family -- so no one will pressure Chad and Erin to just pray away the clotting disorder and go for a child every yr even if it's dangerous to mother and baby. I'm not saying they'll stick to just 1 kid - as I do think they'll go for 2 or 3 - but if it becomes impossible or dangerous, I can see Chad being totally thrilled with his one child and not blaming or resenting Erin for the rest of his life or acting like it's her fault that he can't prove his manhood with 12 children.

Doesn't that picture looks like Derick has gained a bit of weight on his face? If he has -- good for him, it's much needed. Maybe he is happier being done with WMT and getting up at 7 am to get to work -- maybe being home (for now) suits him as it does the other Duggar men -- and that's reflected in weight gain?

It seems like Gil and Kelly impart in lots of ways that the way they live and their rules are for THEIR house and once married, the kids are free to make their own rules. Now I'm sure they'd love if some of their kids chose to have 18 kids of their own, as it would be affirmation that the kids "bought in" to their way. But more than that I think they are good parents who want each kid to be happy and healthy -- whether that means no kids or 18 kids or something in between. When Gil and Kelly spoke about Erin and how helpless they feel, you could see the worry in their faces. You could REALLY see it in Zach's face when he was talking about how scary it is that she's 6 months pregnant and could still lose the baby; he definitely looked scared and upset -- and didn't say much -- when Whitney was saying that he's having a hard time with his sisters growing up; the look on his face just said -- I wish she didn't have to go through miscarriages, risk of stillbirth etc. One of their grandmas (maybe Gil's mom?) openly says that 18 kids is too freaking many. Point is -- I don't think they're going to get a lot of judgment from GIl and Kelly or from the older siblings or extended family, if they decide it was too risky and Bradley should be an only; or if they decide to maybe go for 1 more and that's it. Hell -- I think Alyssa will be kind of jealous that Erin ONLY has to raise 1-2 kids! And I agree with the previous poster -- God IS giving them a sign that they are not meant to have 18 kids; the sign is -- miscarriages followed by a difficult and dangerous first pregnancy that turned out ok. That should be a sign to them to stop or maybe ask for God's help in having 1 more or 2 more and then thank God for all they have and move on.