cereality

I tend to agree with this. The Matt and Amy problems have been brewing for YEARS. Part of me even wonders why they married bc they are so different. Maybe it was bc they were both thrilled to find another little person and wanted to lock it up quick and in locking it up so quick, they overlooked how different they really are or thought the other would "grow out of it" and become similar to them. Amy has had issues with Matt that I can remember going back to the first season. She had 4 young kids and was raising them and working as a preschool teacher and it looked like life was constantly hectic. I vaguely remember Zach -- who couldn't have been more than 14-15 -- going off on Matt re how Amy had to work SO hard while he did nothing. Matt's idea of hard work was all about having vision, building the Western Town and whatever else that farm has now. While I get it and the farm has turned into a successful attraction, at that time, the TV show was just starting, they weren't rolling in TLC money or fame, and I think they really could have used Matt to get an actual 40 hr/wk job with a paycheck -- which was needed to raise 4 young kids, one who was having surgeries etc. Instead he was sitting home with a vision while Amy was busting @$$. And given how traditional the marriage is, it wasn't like he was picking up any slack at home -- he was never seen child rearing; he doesn't cook; he bitches about how Amy doesn't keep the house clean etc. Amy doesn't have to work hard now that they have TLC money, but I don't think she's ever forgiven him for that decade (or more) where it was all on her. And I don't think Zach really has either. I tend to agree -- bc Matt is a little person he gets SO much credit for the success of the farm. If he was 6 ft tall, he'd be seen as a man who lived off his wife for as long as he needed to bc he was only going to do what he wanted -- have a farm with fun fantasy play areas -- rather than what adults do, go out and work for a paycheck whether they like it or not, launch small businesses on the side, and THEN if that business takes off, THEN quit their day job.

There are definitely leases allowing no dogs, while allowing cats -- I live in one now. I don't think it's comparable that Matt can get after Amy for a party the same way he got after Zach and Jeremy for doing donuts - bc they were KIDS and he was the authority figure. To say that Amy can't have people over without his authorization is ridiculous. Sure the grass may need to be re-sodded but give me a break - they have hundreds of acres and that particular field produces no revenue - does it matter if the field looks bad? While Zach and Tory care about the farm, she stated that they don't have the same desire to live on the property. IIRC she's a teacher and he coaches soccer at an indoor facility. I think those 2 are happy living with what they have, shopping at Target, and maybe they like the independence from Matt and Amy's craziness. OTOH it seems clear to me that Jer and Audge (how is that the nickname for Audrey??) do NOT want to work. They want to be hipsters doing only what they want - photography; marriage advising etc. Those things don't make steady money, which is why they have their eye on the prize -- the farm. Sure Matt isn't giving it to them anytime soon but it's free land on which to build a dream home and Matt will likely pay them to work pumpkin season - meaning steady income on which to raise the big family they want. And eventually when they inherit is - they'll get farm income plus the ability to sell off plots to developers. I think they are saavy yet lazy hipsters who will NOT work 9-5.

Does the farm only belong to Matt? It's obnoxious that he acts like Amy needs permission and supervision to have people over. I mean they were all over the property but it's not like they were harming the pumpkin fields. I call BS on the fact that Matt plants crops on that field - usually fields aren't covered in grass. I realize they're twins but the constant comparison of marriages is weird - what's your wife's worst quality; when do you want babies etc. what brothers talk about this constantly? I don't know why but I get a gold digger vibe from Jer and Aude. The constant waxing lyrical about the farm and how they MUST raise kids there strikes me as a realization that they want to get their hands on the $hit ton of land, build a home for free, live off the pumpkin business and maybe even sell some land to developers to make money. That'll allow them a "career" of photography and giving marriage advice on the internet.

I realize the show is Jill and Jessa but it's such BS that those two are suddenly SOOOO close bc they have "walked thru" marriage, pregnancy, childbirth, and motherhood and their sisters who haven't done that couldn't POSSIBLY relate. I mean come on . . . .there's plenty of married moms out there and they aren't all BFFs bc of marriage and motherhood. And it never seemed like Jill and Jessa were especially close -- it always seemed like Jill + Jana as the dutiful obedient ones and then Jessa + Jinger for the mean girl streak. But I guess those pairings don't work anymore. It was interesting to hear Derick say that now was a good time for a mission bc Iz wasn't in school yet. I so hope for that child that they come back to the U.S. and he goes to school --any school -- public; private; Christian etc. Any place where he interacts with other kids 8 hrs a day and learn to read and write properly and isn't wandering around the TTH mid-day at age 12 doing work designed for 2nd graders like his Uncle Jackson. I would think Derick would take a stand of this -- since he and his bro both went to regular school and also college and his mom went to college. And yet with this family, you never know. I thought Derick looked happy in CA. Maybe he really is the kind of guy who doesn't need much -- doesn't care about fancy houses or offices, a car or an AC -- and would rather wander the world; talk to the locals; walk thru the neighborhoods and know people. I mean that's what he was doing when we first saw him in Nepal and he seemed happy there too. I bet the accounting degree was a back up plan - if he didn't get to go overseas or when the money for grifting for a ministry runs out or when he needs to come back to the U.S. and settle down in one place so the kids can go to school -- then it'll be useful to have a marketable skill set. I still maintain that Derick will be happiest if they return and DON'T settle near the Duggars. Whether they're a few hrs away in Little Rock or a short flight away in Oklahoma or Texas -- I think Derick will be able to find a job, build a home and raise his kids how he wants w/o Duggar influence and he'll ultimately be happier. Plus he won't have the lifelong worry about -- did Iz get left in a room alone with creepy Uncle Josh, who was watching him!??

I think a big part of it is that Jill looks LOST without 18 siblings around and without the ability to visit the TTH at least 5 times a week. When she was the first to court and get married and it turned out to be a guy from 30 min away, I think she probably mentally planned out her life. It would involve driving Derick to work at 8 am, heading to the TTH after, leaving there at 5 pm to pick up her husband and spending a few hours at home with him before doing the same thing again the next day. Once there were a pack of kids, it'd be even better bc whatever siblings were around could raise her kids. Then the Joshley scandal breaks, Derick decides he wants out from under JB's thumb, Derick decides he is not a white collar 9-5 dude (at least not at this stage in life) and wants to resurrect his heart for missions. Since he and Jill still interact like polite roommates, he doesn't know that his wife does not want this. After all, she told him when courting that she had a heart for missions too. Of course, she wanted to get married so badly, she would have told him she had a heart for going to the moon if that's what he wanted to hear. So now here she is with a husband and child but SOOO far away from the only "friends" she's ever had -- her sisters; she doesn't even know how to go about making friends plus she doesn't speak the language. The Duggars aren't even kids who spent 8 hrs a day away from each other in different classrooms or at work or college. For Gods sake, if an 18 yr old wants to take a midwifery class, she has to convince a sister to take it too. While the bond is dysfunctional, it is the only bond they know and to be away from it must be really hard. OTOH -- I thought Derick looked happy. So did Jana for some reason. I think so many of these kids just need a break from the monotony of their lives -- which is so sad given that they are between 18-27, which are usually the happy, carefree, exciting years for most people.

Jessa and Jill plan to be pregnant at the same time?? How do they plan to do that -- one gets knocked up, texts the other, and then that one gets busy with her husband?? Also it seems like Jinger is courting -- by the way she said she wouldn't have to go around the world to a husband. Wondering if Anna is a little "hurt" watching this episode. She fancies herself a Duggar sister and they made ever distinction they could between their sisters and their brother's wife -- i.e. it's different when your sister has a baby rather than just your sister in law; it's different when your sister gets married rather than your brother. I'm sure they didn't do it to hurt Anna -- rather they are still distancing themselves from their disgusting brother. Yet sometimes it feels like Anna thinks the Duggar girls are the only ones she has for support and here they are saying --well you're not THAT important bc you're affiliated with our disgusting brother.

I agree that people who have NOTHING to talk about do gossip a lot, but I can't even imagine what they gossip about? I mean I'm sure they talk smack about the few friends they have -- how forward the Bates girls are; how Amy isn't Godly bc she wears pants and had a boyfriend; how Sierra looks like she's 35 yrs old. But outside of that -- are they gossiping about each other bc that would require that one of them DO something? I think they probably do talk shit about Bin and Derick -- and by extension Jilly and Jessa. But the rest of them -- what's to say -- ooohhh did you see how bad Jana screwed up that tater tot casserole last night? I mean it's not like they can gossip about a sister who is sneaking around with a boyfriend or something.

True -- the producers KNOW this crew has nothing to say to each other so an "exotic" restaurant will at least generate conversation beyond "purposing to get married," as they try to figure out the menu. I wonder if Jana realizes how boring they are. She was a bridesmaid for one of the Bates daughters -- I think Michaela, and was shown at one of their homes pre-wedding as they were putting together centerpieces or candles or something. The girls were laughing and talking THE WHOLE TIME. And [gasp] the conversation even turned to sex, as the girls wondered -- and point blank ASKED their sister -- are you more nervous about the wedding or the wedding night, as other girls were hysterically laughing. And as Michaela lied and said she wasn't nervous about either, Erin was pretty up front about how she was nervous about "the whole shebang" after the wedding. Jana must think -- wow, when my sisters and I get together we stare at each other and make polite conversation as if we're distant 3rd cousins who see each other at reunions once in 5 yrs, and here are the Bates girls loud, laughing, story telling on a random Tuesday . . . .Wonder if she's put it together though that it's bc the Bates girls all have some kind of job or school or something outside the home so they have friends, they meet people, and that leads to all kinds of stories to share that their sisters weren't already a part of since Erin's sisters weren't there when she got together with her college bff or whatever . . . .

While lots of people aren't exposed to various foods -- bc they don't want to be or don't have the opportunities -- it's the Duggars' attitude about it that's off putting. There was an episode where cinder-Jana was dispatched to Jill's house to make dal bhat for Derick -- bc Jilly wanted to impress her new hubby. The did a series of talking heads where the producers asked the kids to guess what dal bhat was, what type of food etc. The "kids" including JD and all of the ones that are Jackson's age made the most grossed faces and expressions, as if people in Nepal eat $hit -- and it's not like they were forced to even eat the dish, as it was being made at Jill's house. Even Jana made some comment about -- WELL we don't eat THESE things. And FWIW, dal bhat isn't something that's particularly gross or exotic -- it's rice and lentils with a veggie. Sometimes the veggie is cooked into the lentils so it's a stew consistency. Or sometimes the veggie is served as a side. Sure it doesn't look like a classic American meat and potato dish, but it doesn't look that different from any kind of rice and beans dish -- which most Americans have at least seen. I don't know how they have raised kids to have ZERO curiosity and COMPLETE suspicion of the world -- in that, if we don't do it, it must be wrong or bad -- kind of way. Like in this (or the last?) episode where they were asking what hip hop is and after saying the don't listen to it, Jinger sarcastically says "it's different" or JD says "you don't even need talent to sing hip hop." Um -- just bc you're not into it, doesn't make it automatically awful.

Remind me -- what was the response in DC? Where did they go (what type of food)? Was it when Josh and Anna lived there? Bc I'm sure J&A themselves wouldn't preferred to take them to a chuckie cheese or Dave & Busters kind of place since they themselves are familiar with it.

It's amazing how shelters these girls (and their brothers are) AND how they have NO deductive reasoning abilities at all -- as demonstrated by the utter confusion at the restaurant. They really couldn't google some stuff on an iPhone? I grew up in a totally middle class suburban family and we ate out plenty but given where we lived, it was always Chinese (how exotic for the Duggars); pizza; or an Applelbees/Cheesecake Factory type of place. So when I moved from there to a big fancy big city law firm where there were nighttime events, client dinners etc. -- yeah -- there was a whole lot of new food that I didn't know. So my solution was not to say -- ew a demi glaze, don't want that. Frankly I'd just decide what I wanted as a main portion -- beef; chicken; etc. -- and then just go with one where I knew most of the ingredients. If it came with shallots or a demi glaze or whatever, so what -- it was still a steak!? And that's how you got to try stuff and figure out what you didn't or didn't like. Barring an major allergy issues where you just can't have something (which we haven't heard is a problem for these girls), couldn't they have used that method?? Pick a chicken dish that sounds reasonably ok and go with it!? It's always interesting to see the contrast between them and the Bates. A few Bates went to NYC when Nathan asked his fiancé to court, and she took them to an authentic Chinese restaurant in Chinatown. Erin Bates could be seen on camera chowing down. And then in the talking head she honestly says -- we haven't really gotten the opportunity to try a lot of new foods and when we do, it's always American. Then she's seen with her future sister in law learning to make noodles at that restaurant bc the owner/manager offered -- and then in the interview she says -- it's hard bc they keep breaking, but I can get it with practice; I'm going to make noodles all the time at home and Chad's going to be wondering why we always have noodles for dinner. Whether she does it or not -- it showed the attitude. She WANTED to eat new food and learn a new skill. Whereas the Duggars always default to -- ew, what is this, it's not processed food out of a can, I don't want it . . . . If Bin knows what's good for him, he should shut up re 15 sons. 15 kids (boys or girls) means 30 yrs of his life changing diapers -- as they don't seem industrious enough to potty train kids early. Given that his wife WON'T do diaper duty and he's grossed out by it -- and has to "mentally prepare himself" (his words) every time a diaper change is needed, maybe one more blessing is enough. Though who am I kidding . . . .

I think the benefit of Jill and Jessa marrying first is that the rest of the sisters have had a chance to watch those courtships and marriages and figure out what is or isn't acceptable to them. I think Jana and Joy are particularly self aware. I think Jana's whole thing about "I don't want an office job guy" is because having seen Derick and Josh, she is realizing there is some expectation in their fundie cult or maybe just in their crazy family when the guy is headed to an office. Apparently you have to drive him to/from work, show up to have lunch with him, bring him lunch, or if he has his own business like a car lot, you have to show up and spend the entire day sitting in the back room so that you will be "close to" your man. Maybe she doesn't want to live like that -- when her man leaves for the day, she wants him gone all day so she can sit around reading a book or watching soaps or whatever (since some of the couples do relax their rules post marriage) and then whip up some dinner at 5 pm to have on the table by the time he's home. I mean she has raised 18 siblings with zero alone time-- maybe she's craving that without having to drive hours in a day to bring her man lunch. Maybe in her mind that's only possible if her man is like a welder on a construction site -- where she can't/isn't allowed to show up due to safety reasons. Honestly the best case scenario for Jana and Joy is if they end up with a guy like Alyssa Bates' husband -- blue collar (as is Jana's wish); owns a business in another state that's a plane ride away; goes to church every Sunday but isn't thinking his wife is some kind of hussy if she's wearing a tank top, jeans, or a sleeveless dress. Love that Joy is self aware enough to notice that they wear "mostly normal clothes" -- i.e. it isn't normal to buy bridesmaid dresses and add 6 inches of white under them to make them longer or add random mismatched collars. Hate that they just will NOT let the girl be herself bc their cult doesn't allow it. In the room where they were packing she goes, I really don't like dresses. Anna jumps in quickly and definitely says -- you prefer skirts. Um -- we wouldn't want anyone to believe your sister in law is some Godless hussy sporting Levis -- I mean I'm sure that's Anna's biggest image problem given the cheater she's with who she keeps defending. And I feel like Jinger was pretty pushy about -- Joy let me check your packing -- so she could add Duggar approved items. God forbid she go away for one weekend and not be Duggar approved in any way. Somehow I think there is a courtship in the works. Fingers crossed it's Jana as she DESPERATELY needs to get away from the TTH and this is the only way it'll be allowed. And fingers crossed it isn't Joy -- way way too young to marry at 18 and be pushing out a child next yr. They're a business oriented family, they know their ratings are low and if they don't stir something up, their show is over. AND mentioning it SOOOO many times (i.e. in 6 months any of the girls could be married and gone) is just plain dumb if there isn't a courtship coming up for 5 more yrs -- bc their ratings are already low and when people realize that it's just more fake tree houses and fake trips to see rappers or get some girl time, viewership will off of even more.

What on earth is wrong with Anna? I realize she's fundie thru and thru, but really -- every time I switched away from NY election coverage to 19 kids -- it was about her waxing poetic about marriage. I mean at the spa, Jessa instigates the conversation about Josh and Anna says "it's been a hard road but a good road." Um -- what part of being cheated on was good for you?? What part of uprooting your relatively independent life in DC and moving to the girls dorm has been good for you? Her voice definitely broke as she was talking about how she and Josh have a lot of work to do, so I wasn't sure if she buys her own hype about forgiving Josh. But then throughout the show -- at breakfast the 1st day and dinner the 2nd day -- she is going on and on about how she's SOO glad they're doing this trip bc with all the girls being over 18, anyone could be 6 months away from an engagement and they may not have time to do this again. And then questioning Joy about what she wants in a guy and saying how the guy better love her a LOT more than he loves himself. WTF!? Given what she has gone through -- being cheated on -- you'd think she'd be the first one telling a freaking 18 yr old, there is NO rush, do what you want, and if/when the right guy comes than deal with it but don't hinge your life on a guy. But then that would go against the fundie indoctrination. I'm kind of surprised that Jana admitted in the TH with Joy that "maybe" she's sick of being asked when she'll get a guy. I'm also surprised that she was so "honest" that she doesn't want a white collar office guy, but would rather have a "hard worker" with dirt under his nails (bc you know -- anyone who works at a computer can't possibly work "hard" for their paycheck). I feel like a few yrs ago when Jinger said she wanted to live in a city, her sisters -- esp. Jill -- jumped all over her and said she'll follow the lord's will and it may be a "test" for her if she doesn't end up in the city and she'll be fine blah blah. Yet this time, it was fine for Jana to say "I hope and pray not" when Jessa said "watch you'll get an office worker." Love that Jessa tried to give "sage" marriage advice to Jana saying when she falls in love, she's not going to ask - do you have an office job?? (Though in the real world, most people do know what their man does for a living.) Kind of pathetic that Jana said if a guy has an office job, you end up sitting home all day doing nothing bc you can't work by his side. Um -- get your OWN job? Start your OWN business? Don't depend on a guy to marry you, give you babies, support you, and ALSO provide you with something to do 40 hrs a week -- something beyond pushing out babies and raising them.

Before setting you to minister to inner city youth, it would behoove Ben to get a job for a yr and use that to support his family and see how life really is. A real one - not with TLC or JB. Something with shift work, where you often get bad shifts, but you take them and are thankful for them bc as your shifts get cut so does your pay; preferably a retail job where he's on his feet all day, has an unsympathetic boss and has to commute 20 miles to get there. Sure the inner cities have lots of problems, but many of those problems stem from poverty and lack of opportunity; it may not even occur to Bin that a good portion of inner city youth who fall into drugs and gangs do so bc there is some life emergency - like mom loses her job - and they need to make quick money to survive and then they get arrested and even if they vow to change, they now of a record, making it even harder to get a job so they keep dealing . . . and the cycle of poverty continues. I'm not sure that having a country bumpkin in a polo sweater telling them to pray harder will have the effect Bin thinks it'll have - having never experienced real life.

Whoever they cajoled into helping the tree house for free seemed PISSED by the end when he was saying - it's been a LONG day, that's what happens when you keep having to stop to search for tools and parts and then have to wait 5 hrs bc Jed bought the wrong lumber and had to drive all the way back to unload it and load up the right stuff. Is TLC providing all this equipment - otherwise why do they have it? It doesn't look like the first time they've used it - by why would Jed be so familiar w driving a flat bed lumber truck? I don't think they have any kind of construction business?

In the car on the way to school (or maybe to Cory's), Leah is pulling out of the driveway not use looking at a phone but full on typing on something like an iPad?! And then one of the twins dares say something about being late to school and she yells at them that "it's none of their business when they need to be at school ?!" Just that they need to be there and she and cote will get them there. WTF?! Did she ever go to school? Does she realize that some teachers punish for lateness or take away privileges and yes - it's the students bearing punishment not parents?? Even if their school doesn't do that, does she get that kids don't sit in school doing nothing so if you're 30 min late the class is doing work that you've now missed and need to quickly catch up and being that they're little kids, the teacher likely has to stop what she's doing to help them catch up?! How is this none of their business??

OMG Ben is such a joke as a rapper, singer or inner city minister and you could tell the producers were humoring him BUT it was so nice to see him excited and happy for once re something he wanted to do. That's how 20 yr old are supposed to be - their projects are the biggest things in the world to them whether realistic or not. The whole thing would've been more fun for him if Jessa wasn't sitting there looking like the ice princess w a fake smile on her face. As for inner city ministering - no chance. He was so shocked by the things inner city kids go thru. If he doesn't understand violence, drugs, broken home and poverty and finds those things "new" and "fascinating" -- what value does he add in those communities?? To say nothing of the white boy wannabe rapper not going over well in certain areas. These kids are so mind blowingly isolated, judgmental and unexposed. I actually don't think Ben is and he really liked the music session, producers etc. - but the Duggars, man. I love how no kid knew what hip hop was - couldn't describe it, hadn't heard it, yet acted like it was so "below" them -- saying it was "interesting" or that you don't need to be a good singer. Totally laughed at Jessa's Indian lunch. Maybe it's bc I grew up in NJ, but everyone I know has at least one Indian friend, neighbor, or coworker - or if not Indian then at least 1st gen immigrant from somewhere. It isn't so shocking that their parents came from someplace else but they were born and raised in America with both American and ethic traditions. Wonder if she liked her biryani or whether she was grossed out - though it's really just a fancy chicken and rice. But with the Duggars you never know . . . .

I'm laughing at the fact that the play fort needs a play kitchen. I'm sorry but when most kids play in a fort, don't they dream that they're in a rocket ship going to the moon or fantasize about what it would be like to go to china or pretend that they're soldiers at war? Is it necessary that even in a play setting, the wimmen folk must fantasize about cooking and serving others? Won't they all be living that reality soon enough??

Just saw the 1st birthday pic they posted, with Iz in a diaper. Given the Zika virus, shouldn't they cover the kid up -- even indoors? I realize there aren't as many mosquitos indoors, but having lived in developing countries -- homes aren't as tightly built, there are cracks where mosquitoes come in, windows/doors aren't always screened. I don't get their child rearing.

Erin was raised in that small town, and I think Chad is from a similar small town in Oklahoma -- not from Tulsa or OK City. To them having your own (or rented) shabby chic cottage in the country is a sign that you have arrived -- you are independent of your parents and are raising your kids in their own home with a backyard. I think they love nothing more than Chad doing home renovation projects or being out on the back deck finishing some piece of furniture, while Erin is in the kitchen whipping up dinner -- as they talk to each other thru the kitchen windows. At least that's how I picture their life when Chad is home. Ashley OTOH may want something more than that. I'm sure she'll cook, but somehow I don't see her finding joy in cooking, cleaning and child rearing; she seems like a girl who'll want to be out doing things. And while she'll support Nathan, I don't see her fawning all over some home renovation project he does. It's just that in SUCH a small town, there are only so many places to go and in a few months -- she will have discovered all the nearby shops, theaters etc. Whereas I'd imagine having lived 20+ yrs in NYC, she likely STILL hasn't discovered ALL there is to do -- bc there is so much.

I bet you're right re new foods. I always forget that this isn't a family that's wealthy due to yrs of being on TV. They were living off of Gil's tree business and probably didn't have a whole lot for extras with 19 kids. I bet eating out was a special treat for birthdays and anniversaries and then they'd pick the restaurants they know everyone would like, rather than venturing out for Chinese or sushi and having some kids be disappointed. Ashley comes across like a born and raised New Yorker. I lived in NYC for 10 yrs and even I got attached, even though I never loved it. But the born and raised New Yorkers think NOTHING is better and think EVERYPLACE besides the 5 boroughs is the boonies; to them Long Island or New Jersey is an adjustment so I can't even imagine the adjustment to Rocky Top. I think she'll be ok for a while. She's young and in love and will be over the moon to follow her young, sexy (to her) husband anywhere. Plus there are a lot of sisters in law to get to know, and I think many of them match her loud, fun personality well -- esp. Tori, Carlin, Josie, and Erin to a certain extent though she isn't loud. So I think the transition to marriage, keeping her own home, and hanging with the big family may make her happy for a yr or two. After that though -- when every weekend is the same and just involves church and then hanging out at that Bates compound or going to one of the 5 American restaurants or the 1 mall in the next "big" town -- I think she will then start to feel a bit suffocated and wonder if this is what the next 50 yrs will be like. Plus she'll be far from her own family, and I assume she is close to her own 7 (or 9?) siblings. At that point, I think it will be up to Nathan to realize that this is about HIS nuclear family, and not just keeping the life he was raised with. I think Lawson had the right idea when talking to Nathan about clothing -- saying sometimes you have to adapt to where you are, you can do that while still being proud of your own upbringing (when he was trying to talk him out of packing flannel and a cowboy hat for NYC). While Nathan may right now be thinking that once Ashley moves to Rocky Top, she'll get to love it like he does and will just forget about NYC -- the nice thing is that Nathan knows he's marrying a spunky girl who is quick to tell it like it is and doesn't just stare adoringly at him. He knows what spunky girls are like -- he was raised with Tori, Carlin, and Josie. So at some level, I think he realizes he's marrying a girl who views herself as his equal and that means he won't just get to act like the headship of the family and do whatever he wants without considering her. And I also think that having brothers like Lawson and Zach and a brother in law like Chad -- all of whom seem reasonable -- if he were to ever go to them and suggest that Ashely is miserable, all of them would tell him to consider his wife's needs -- rather than telling him, you're the man, who cares what she thinks.

I like them. I like their method of dating -- holding hands, hugging etc. I like that when they were going on the carriage ride, Lawson said "this carriage doesn't have a 3rd seat" and Nathan was quick to shut it down and say -- that's ok, I only need 2 seats. I like that when they were at Bryant Park, they were skating by themselves without his brother or her sister 6 inches behind them to listen to conversation. I like that after they announced the courtship, Gil, Kelly and Erin left and gave Nathan an extra day with his girlfriend (with Lawson in tow). I don't understand OTOH what they possibly have in common. I realize they share the same faith and beliefs, but he is a true country boy and she is a true NYC girl. She was quick to point out -- more than once -- how "country" he was dressed; she seemed a bit embarrassed of his huge cowboy hat. When asked whether she could give up the city, she said she wants some "elbow room" and can't be 70 miles from the closest shopping mall -- when New Yorkers say that, that tends to mean they'd be ok with a house in NJ not in Rocky Top. And he's totally un/underexposed -- at the Chinese restaurants, she was saying to him that this would broaden his horizons, as he pushed his food around the plate. He struggled to explain or understand what a crepe is. I just don't get how two such opposites will make it work, and for her sake, after the newness of marriage and s*x wears off, I hope he understands that rural Tenn. will NOT make his wife happy in the long term and opts to at least move her to Knoxville or Nashville -- where there is plenty of shopping and at least decent Chinese and Mexican food. For as unexposed as this family is, they seemed to handle NYC well. You could tell Kelly, Gil and Nathan are NOT into NYC -- they pretty much said it when they got off the plane. Yet all 3 seemed to like the boat tour; Kelly seemed excited for Chinatown and both Kelly and Gil seemed to like the food; Gil and Nathan seemed to love the ice cream place and Gil was even filming how they were making the ice cream. I LOVED Erin. She seemed to dive right into everything. She was very honest that they rarely try new foods and if they do it's always American, and yet she was chowing down at the restaurant and jumped right in to try making the noodles. And even said -- I can get it with practice, I'm going to do it all the time at home and Chad's going to be wondering why we have noodles all the time!!

18 yr old Joy has been "best friends" with 30 (? I'm guessing) yr old Sierra for 5 years? So Sierra at age 25 wanted a 13 yr old BFF?? That's one screwed up cult -- what does a college aged adult have in common with a preteen?? I love how they're highlighting each girl as a talented individual. Party planning doesn't strike me as Joy's thing -- that was SO made for TV. Typically party planning is a "girly" type of thing -- if you don't like shopping, you're not going to go far in party planning as you are shopping and decorating for every single party as they have different themes and everything has to be just-so. As for Jinger and photography -- if she wants to be a real photographer, can't she get a real client or two?? Is her only choice to photograph Sierra and family? There's really no one else in their area with a wedding, baby, or family portrait need. Real photographers build a book of their work, that's how people decide which photographer to go with for their event; surely if the Duggars are going to fake this, they can do a better job faking it. As for JD -- Kelly Bates had said that JD and Zach were friends and JD was there for Zach when his first courtship fell apart. After that Zach didn't go down the courtship road; rather he was hanging out at Sonic, saw a cute waitress, started chatting her up, they became friends over time -- starting off talking about past failed relationships and how hard it was, and then dated or courted and married. I wish JD would go down this road and look at Zach and realize it's possible. Frankly it's going to be more possible for him that way than the traditional way. The courting model is based on a fundie guy noticing a fundie girl. I'm sure he's capable of doing that bc now he sounds like he WANTS to be married with his own family. Yet after you notice said girl, you run off to her daddy to say you've prayed about it and ask his blessing to get to know you for 6-8 weeks so you can propose. You need daddy to think you're a stand up guy bc he's the one who is going to convince his daughter that this is a good thing and she should go for it. I don't think JD is all that confident -- I can see him saying to himself, why would that father ever say yes, I'm Josh Duggars brother and everyone probably thinks I'm just like that. I can see JD talking himself out of it and not even asking permission to court. I don't think he has any game either, BUT I wish he'd talk to Zach and realize that it's not THAT big of a deal to be yourself and chat with girls until you find one who likes you back. Sure he's dorky, but it's not like dorky guys don't get married. And despite his dorkiness, I think he is a stand up guy -- I think he'll be happy to work hard; I don't see him as the domineering headship type; etc. While dating means he won't meet a fundie girl with 15 siblings of her own, in their area it is still extremely likely that he'll meet a conservative Christian who shares the same views re purity etc.

I almost felt bad for JD bc he sounded so down and desperate when he said -- lord willing I'll find a wife, have some kids and build my own playhouse. The look on his face suggested he didn't thing it'd happen. You feel bad for the restricted life they lead where they have no chances to meet anyone or maybe have w chance once a yr at the homeschooling conference which he's likely aged out of bc he's 26 -- finished school a while ago and in their world should be homeschooling a few of his own kids now and may be thought of as "weird" in that fundie setting bc he's single.

I think it is also good for the Bates that Gil's business is only so big AND if you work in that business, you have to DO WORK. In no way can Gil's business absorb his dozen (give or take) sons plus all the sons in law who'll marry his daughters. Gil knows that, I think his kids know that, and Gil and Kelly seem open enough with their kids that they likely talk about these things -- I mean Kelly was shown talking to Trace about what he wants to do post high school, whether it means working for dad, setting up his own business, college, or some combo. Plus not everyone is interested in climbing trees and chopping them down, clearing brush etc. -- so it's not a business that is a natural fit for everyone. Bc those kids know a paycheck from dad isn't just waiting for them, they and their spouses pursue other things. It also helps that they can't resort to laziness unlike the Duggars. The Duggar businesses mostly involve owning property and owning cell phone towers and the kids/family "manage" them; day to day there isn't anything to do bc whoever is leasing a warehouse from you likely isn't calling you every day, nor does his lease come up for renewal every day. So by being in the family business, the Duggar kids get to sleep in and do a whole lot of nothing all day. Also helps that thus far all the Bates sons in law have their own pride -- and hence their own professions. None of the Bates girls has married an 18 yr old off the street with no education or skill who needs his father in law to provide/make up a job. John is trained in HVAC and owns a business with a few of his brothers and he wasn't about to move up to Tenn. so Gil could provide for him. Brandon went to seminary and has some kind of job at Gothard HQ -- again likely not interested in taking from Gil. Chad moved to Tenn. but has a finance degree and found himself a business job in some small manufacturing company. None of those 3 guys seem like they'd want a manual labor job anyway.