cereality

Flame being around shows HOW MUCH these "kids" need friends. He was only with the boys for a few hrs and he and his wife were at the house probably no more than an hr but it livened up the joint. Everything from playing the cello for a few min to walking around with the Arkansas t-shirt and boots and making fun of himself. He and JD were chatting it up in the truck and when JD was telling him how to operate the equipment. Seems like Joseph was hanging out in his forklift and talking to him. We know it was all made for TV to show they have diverse friends and in return Flame got at least 1-2 min of "video" in the middle of the episode and the potential for some fundies buying his album. But in any event, I haven't seen any of the kids that animated in yrs -- even during their "fellowship" with fundie families that the parents SWEAR are real friends -- like the Bates. Shows how much these kids need their own friends, people to chat/joke with, a life (individually for each kid - not 1 life for all 19). Hate to say it but I was "impressed" that JD, Joseph, Jed/Jer etc. jumped in and hung out with him without being the slightest bit phased that he's black. Maybe there's some hope for them if they can get away from their freak show of a family.

So in that IG pic (with the broccoli) why are they watching Dave Ramsey? Money problems for the Dillards? Must be weird for the Dillards to have to do some financial planning rather than - God will provide and the TLC show will be on forever.

While it's nice to fantasize, I just don't think Jinger's situation will be any different than the standard Duggar marriages. It's nice to think that a college educated guy who is talking back a bit - or at least not deferring to JB - with a mom who may want to take Jinger under her wing is going to move Jinger away from the TTH, allow her to have some dreams and actually pursue them - maybe in things like photography, have ~5 kids not 20 and use birth control, and live an independent life in Texas. I mean we said the same about Derick. A college educated accountant with 2+ yrs living overseas with a Fortune 500 job and a mom who was a senior exec in corporate America. He was going to push her to get some education; they'd talk about worldly things like the news; she'd draw some inspiration from his mom; they'd definitely use BC and have 2 kids; they'd hang out with his college educated friends; he'd introduce her to things like Broadway and Indian food. And now look . . . he quits his Fortune 500 job for a made up ministry bc he is too lazy to work 40 hrs/wk. We EVEN said it about Bin. Sure he was an uneducated fundie. But he has a dad who hustles. He has a mom who seems attached/involved -- SHE was the one who shed tears when seeing Jessa in her wedding dress, not Jessa's own mom. We hoped he'd move Jessa to Hot Springs, finish his AA degree, make insurance sales his real job or pick up some trade, and Jessa would get to experience a loving family where [presumably] no one is molesting anyone else and where the men work. Now look . . . cleaning toilets for JB and trying to launch a fake ministry. Sadly I think we'll see the same with Jer. The reason I think this -- this is a college educated guy. Soccer ends [which is fine - minor league careers don't last forever and aren't lucrative]. Instead of then making use of his degree and finding some kind of professional job, he too jumps into fake ministry -- presumably bc it means "working" -- i.e. lecturing -- a few hrs a week, not having to grind out a 40 hr work week. Add to that a 30 yr old with "experience" (presumably there were some girlfriends in college or high school or at least some dates) is seeking a virginial 22 yr old who is SO inexperienced and sheltered that she comes across as if she's 13 and said 30 yr old has said that he seeks a "meek" wife -- and I don't see this marriage being so worldy or different. I see the same -- no birth control, honeymoon baby, and Jinger being miserable like Jill a yr from now and then there will be another baby, another etc. I don't think it's SOOOO telling that he doesn't kiss JB's ass. I think it's just how he was raised. He's from Philly -- we tend to be blunt, even though we may say it with a smile. He IS fundie but I think he came to fundy-ism later in life; he was raised in an Italian Catholic family -- VERY VERY blunt atmosphere in those families; he went to high school and college and is an alpha male athlete -- those types of guys say what they want. He wasn't raised surrounded by all fundies in rural Arkansas. So I don't think he is trying to be rude/standoffish when he says to JB -- "I'll pray to God re timing, I'll let you know what he says." I don't think he's purposefully snuggling up to Jinger on the couch to say FU to JB. I think they are BOTH HOT for each other and he thinks -- ok -- I've been told no hugs or kisses, this gets me super close w/o hugs or kisses. Jinger OTOH IS saying FU to JB. She KNOWS that snuggling so close to a guy on the couch that your shoulders, torso, butt and thighs are in full contact IS NOT ALLOWED or APPROVED AT ALL, and yet she KNOWS that JB NEEDS to get her married off to keep the TLC circus going; she KNOWS Jer is the only potential suitor; she KNOWS Jer is a grown ass man, not a boy like Bin, so she KNOWS that JB can't say anything to either of them re her cuddling bc JB can't risk pissing off the only potential suitor. FWIW -- I think JB hates Jer. He has to dance to JB's tune bc there's money on the line -- but a good looking (relatively though I don't see it) athlete who is a grown ass man who won't take direction from JB (for a few more months at least, until he is on JB's payroll which he will be) -- JB hates that lack of control. I bet he almost prefers the 19 yr old boys who he can put thru hazing rituals by making them do tree jobs and clean toilets before they can have his daughter's hand.

WTF is wrong with these people? What 29 yr old MAN is SOOOOO excited to see his 22 yr old girlfriend that despite texting/facetiming 24-7, 2 weeks apart feels like MONTHS? What 29 yr old is SOOOOO blown away by a string art project done by her girlfriend which is probably an art project that they're doing in 4th grade these days? What 22 yr old is SOOO blown away by a 1 bedroom apartment that she is exclaiming "OMG BABE" every 2 seconds? What girl's father feels it is ok to open his daughter's boyfriend's closet and walk in -- not peek inside but actually open the freaking door? What did he think Jer could have been hiding back there -- another girlfriend? And to me the JB comment of -- your modest salary may not be enough, you'll need a 2nd job was such a set up for a conversation whether a month from now or a yr from now -- look you're living 700 miles away from us on a pittance, come back to Arkansas, you can preach here, and I have tons of free housing available. Even more telling than that though was the fact that Jer had NOTHING to say on that point. I know he was put on the spot, but come on, he has watched close enough to know some made for TV drama coming. And even if he didn't, I feel like most guys -- esp. of a patriarchal culture -- would feel their pride/worth was being questioned and would say SOMETHING, whether -- actually I make a good salary enough for 2 people and a family; I wouldn't be looking to marry until I was financially stable; I have a budget worked out . . . something. My first thought at Jer's silence was that he was STUNNED that money was an issue bc he thought he'd be benefiting from the Duggar fortune/TLC money and that's why he's signing on for this whole thing. And Jinger's over the top excitement about a very normal 1 bedroom was sad. It just shows how unexposed she is. Everyone my age lives in/lived in that kind of apartment and/or all our friends do . . . so there is nothing so magical about an ordinary first apartment. But obviously Jinger has probably never even been in one before. LOL at her comment re his HUGE bed; I'm sure she was thinking . . . I'll be enjoying it soon . . . .

I'd respect the "alone@ conversation more if it meant that any one of the daughters stood up for anything they wanted in the marriage even once. As in - I intend to go to online college after marriage; or I honestly don't see myself birthing more than 2-4 times so we may end up on BC; or I do/don't want to end up in Texas, overseas etc - so if that's a problem for you, speak now. Though knowing the Duggar girls and their desperation to escape, they dare not say anything expressing any type of opinion which could possibly be contrary to their loser boyfriend's wishes, lest they scare said loser boyfriend away. Yet it appears to quietly be happening in other fundie families. One of the Bates sons in law was raised in the same patriarchal culture and gainfully employed in Okla, yet he moves to Tenn to court a Bates daughter, stays so she can finish college and lo and behold 3+ yrs and 2 kids later, he's still in Tenn. Clearly that daughter stood up for herself and let her preference for staying close to home be known and her husband decided he was willing . . . .

Didn't realize Bin and Jessa texted BY THEMSELVES!? Ooooh the scandal . . . . When did they admit this?? But really how hard is it to get around parents these days? Ask any 10 yr old and they'll tell you mom and dad don't understand technology. How hard is it to set up a group chat with your intended + mom/dad. You use that one for "nice" non controversial discussion like -- how's the weather in Laredo; here's this Bible verse I woke up thinking about; what's your favorite color. Mom and Dad think you're all wholesome. And then you have another text that's just you + your intended -- where you can talk about how you want to use birth control [gasp] bc you have watched your sisters' births and can't bear to push out 15 kids; you do or don't want to move to Texas and is he ok with that etc. You know -- the actual things that people talk about before marriage. How would mom and dad ever know? If you're super paranoid and think they/a sibling will grab your phone to check, keep deleting off the texts after you respond so they won't see all your views on life, love, and marriage . . . .

Realistically - nothing. I mean they all don't work either and they've never seen any male go off to work 40 hrs a week. They've known their bro was molesting their little sisters and later cheated on his wife. And all of that was A-OK. So Bin or Jeremy being lazy and/or not working isn't enough to form a negative view of them. And with Derick they couldn't have said a word about him -- I mean he graduated college; did a 2 yr mission; and was working at a Fortune 500 when he came courting . . . . So what exactly can JD say is SO inadequate about him?

While the Bates are just as fundie, they are more "normal" in their family interactions. It is a real love between those siblings. And therefore we see the siblings talking to each other; joking around; making fun of each other; fighting; etc. All of that is "allowed" bc the love is there and Gil and Kelly realize just naturally certain siblings will have more in common with others, so they don't flip their shit when 4 yr old Jeb says Trace is his favorite and his best friend. He doesn't get a lecture re -- no no, they are ALL your favorite and ALL your best friends and in fact your only friends ever and you're not allowed to gravitate to one over the others. So bc those kids grow up seeing all the positives and differences of their siblings -- they know that Michael is the introverted but kind one and she needs similar guy and thus Brandon better fit that bill and be doing things to make her feel special and loved in her reserved way. Those siblings have more to say about each other than the Duggar standards of -- he/she is Godly; sweet; has a servant's heart. They'll tell you straight up who is LOUD; who is a neat freak; who can't cook; who loves to cook etc.

Where's wise old JB and all the brothers who are checking out the guy? I almost don't blame the girls (almost). They are so sheltered and isolated and SOOO excited when they see a future (i.e. I will get to leave the TTH and live my own life bc a guy arrived) and SO stoked just to have a "friend" that is theirs bc they never even had that growing up -- that I can see them not noticing/caring about hmmm -- this guy is ALWAYS available ANYTIME I want to talk or text, doesn't he have a JOB? But shouldn't wise old JB notice that all of this prospective sons in law (Bin and Jeremy) have been REALLY REALLY way TOO available? Or how about the brothers who have anointed themselves to be their sisters protectors who are checking out the guy!? It doesn't bode well with respect to being able to make a living and provide for your daughter if your son in law seems to have no work obligations whatsoever. Sure most people in relationships will text throughout the day these days -- but it's on and off -- and sometimes they don't touch base at all bc they are in a deposition all day or in surgery or clinic with patients or on a job site or whatever. And most couples will save their longer FaceTime kind of chats until the evening or even weekends. I mean I have broken up with people before bc they were SO available they expected me to talk/text multiple times a day and then be done working at 5 pm and then they flipped out when I clarified that I can't be texting while writing a brief and sometimes there are 8 pm conference calls and I can't just pull the -- sorry I've worked 8 hrs today thing. I'd venture to guess Jinger would flip out if Jer was unavailable for a WHOLE day bc he had to say go do ministry in a prison or someplace where you can't walk around with a phone in your face.

I want to know what there is text about constantly. I mean I text a lot with my friends but it is always discussions starting with whatever weird thing happened that day - bc we have jobs, leave our home, live in NYC/DC where there's always random stuff happening on the streets; are you watching Real Housewives - OMG Teresa is insane; are you watching this football game - turn it on right now, this QB is amazing; can you believe Trump/Clinton just said x. We all know that NONE of those topics applies to Jinger. Maybe she has some idea re the Razorbacks due to her brother in law but even then I'd venture to guess that the females can't be talking about football in any detail bc it's unlady-like for women folk to know that much about competitive sports. But it's not like she's leaving the home and interacting with anyone else so it's not like she can say - hey I was talking to Joann at work and did you know . . . . I mean how long can -- I LOVE you, no I LOVE you, I can't wait until we're married -- possibly take? Sometimes you can get to know each other by text so maybe there's some of that going on but even that'll be at a superficial level like favorite foods or colors or whatever. I can't imagine any discussion re how many kids do you want, would you oppose if I worked outside the home, if I worked how would we split housework or whatever -- bc you know, GOD and headship. She is likely playing the same role that Jilly Muffin is playing as wifey, when Deric asked -- what are your goals for this year, and Jilly said -- the same as yours, what are yours?? It doesn't even occur to them that they could/should have interests or goals in anything besides whatever the husband's interests are.

I think Derick's dad passing away has had a profound impact on his life and the decisions he's made. While they are/were a religious family, they aren't Duggar-fundie-crazy. He loses his dad as a college frosh. He obviously is grieving, stunned, everything and turns to faith to carry him through. That's fine. But I think he fell into the trap of doing what he thinks an uber religious man should do -- not mess around with girls; take a wife; raise a family, quick. Add to it he isn't the smoothest guy in the world and he's grieving, so it likely wasn't easy to find a girlfriend. But he's at a big southern school where people commonly get engaged at age 21 and marry right after college graduation at age 22. And here he is headed off to a mission in Nepal that was supposed to be 1-2 yrs and the whole time he's thinking, I'll be 24-25 when I return, who is going to marry me then. So he reaches out to the most fundie family he's heard of in Ark. knowing that he can impress the dad by being a godly young man and thus will be granted a wife immediately upon his return. So BAM -- he comes back and is engaged and married to a girl who made all the right noises about wanting to serve the Lord but it turns out then he gets to know her, all she wants is a baby every yr -- which will mess with his plans of living in the developing world -- PLUS is scared to death of leaving her comfort zone and her 18 siblings in Arkansas. So now he's married and of course w/o birth control they get pregnant asap and he is stuck and dragging his wife along to try to live the life he wants in the developing world. I feel like if his dad was alive, he may not have gotten involved with Jill. His dad may have had the perspective to be able to say -- son, go to Nepal, live your life and you will meet the right girl when the time is right, don't do cartwheels to impress anyone's dad and don't feel like you need to meet someone via skype and put a ring on it asap, get to know them a bit . . . . After all Dan is probably 25-26ish and not married and I believe was dating a girl who was off doing some kind of internship/study in DC. He doesn't feel the rush/panic that Derick did and I feel like if Derick had had an older male tell him to slow down and look out for himself first, he may have done it.

Wish any of the Duggars was smart or savvy enough to figure out Jeremy's game. With Bin -- whatever he was a dumb 19 yr old dying to have sex and he knew he couldn't do that without marriage so he reached out to the daddy of the hottest local girl he'd ever seen on TV, likely not ever believing it was possible -- I mean even his mom said she was out of his league, and BAM -- instant courtship and marriage and Bin gets to hit it. Derick -- I think he knew he was a total dweeb who needed an arranged marriage. I mean the mascot of the football team at big state u spends 4 yrs around cheerleaders, women in band, and about a zillion female fans and can't get himself a girlfriend?? And then he's headed off to Nepal for 2 yrs knowing that that's another 2 yrs lost from a dating perspective and by southern standards, 25 is an old man. He realizes that he'll be parent approved though -- educated; religious; mission work etc. -- so he seeks out an arranged marriage bc he knows his only chance is if someone's daddy says -- you should marry this guy. Plus having grown up somewhat fundie himself -- I have a feeling he realized the whole headship thing could work to his favor. He knew he wanted to live in the developing world and not work 40 hrs a week -- as someone's headship, he could require that they live that life. If OTOH he had married a girl from OU, she would not have been following him off to Central America, nor would she likely have supported him quitting a job at a Fortune 500 while she was pregnant to sit home and do basically nothing. Jeremy OTOH -- the reasons seem more nefarious to me. Unlike Bin and Derick, he doesn't come across like he can't get a girl or can't have sex. I'm sure he's had plenty of both. Yet he's a 29 yr old man CHOOSING to be with a 22 yr old who he knows (from watching the show and now from courting for like a yr) has the emotional maturity of a 14 yr old girl who is likely doodling her first name + his last name with a heart around it?! He says he wants a MEEK wife!? On top of his (erroneous) belief that Duggar "fame" will help him launch a ministry, I have creepy, control freak vibes from him. It'll obviously be about living how he wants to live (which Derick is doing too), but on top of that it may be EVERYTHING -- with guilt thrown in bc he was willing to have her and consider her "pure" even though she'd been violated by her brother. Jinger has depressive tendencies -- we saw something wasn't right with her in previous seasons as she was crying at the drop of a hat, looking miserable, looking thin, and broke down at Jessa's wedding bc she was such a sinner or some such thing. Sure right now it's all smiles bc a boy likes her. But I feel like all of that emotion will come flooding back in the next yr when marriage isn't so new, when she's isolated from her siblings in Laredo, and when she has to suffer through a natural, at home birth with a 10 lb baby . . . .

Also loved the "anniversary dinner" where Derick asks -- what are your goals for the next yr? And Jill's immediate response is -- hopefully the same as your goals, what are yours? Um -- Jill you ARE allowed to have your own goals in life. And Derick your goals CAN be something other than a PhD in Jill Dillard. WTF!? I'm pretty sure they do have cards or at least nice stationary in Central America -- even just paper that isn't ripped out of a notebook with the edges still attached. They couldn't have splurged for something nicer to write letters on since they likely will keep them!?

OMG how has Jeremy not run away screaming already?? He seems to have grown up normal-ish, went to college, played pro sports and in all that time likely hd a girlfriend or friends who were crushing on him and he on them, at least. He must realize it isn't normal for a 22 yr woman to be unable to go more than a few min without calling, texting or sending selfies to her boyfriend no matter how much she loves him. I mean clearly he watches the show and is in this for fame -- why does he think that Jinger won't be a clinger given her behavior now and given that she has learned from women like Jill -- who was smothering her husband to the point of driving him to/from work and then needing to go have lunch with him at work -- for the 9 months he actually held a job. WTH is wrong with Jessa and that couple they showed!? They are all mid 20s-- do they REALLY have nothing to talk about besides -- when did he laugh; when did he roll over; how much diaper rash has he had!? Seriously?? You have NOTHING you want to say to each other besides comparing how many times a day your precious baby boys pee? And Jessa and Bin "reminiscing" about how it was to have a baby that age is effing ludicrous. You have a 8 month old. They have a 3-ish month old. Are you really reminiscing about how life was earlier this year?? Newsflash -- the kid you have, also a baby -- why not enjoy that one?? Jill is so miserable in Central America. She almost looked teary as she talked about the carpeting and the shower and how it was like back home in the US. How can Derick not see that his wife is miserable? Or does he want to avoid a cubicle farm life so much that he just doesn't care and thinks she'll pray it away? Awesome to hear Derick say the best part of the wedding for any guy is what happens after. Is this proof that Derick couldn't get any without an arranged marriage? Also nice to see next week's preview where JB and Michelle think nothing of embarrassing a 22 yr old daughter bc her 28 yr old boyfriend puts his arm around her . . . that's apparently TOO FAST for the parents . . . .

Why did they need to borrow the RV from a "friend"? Didn't they used do have a huge bus and an RV or two? Have they fallen on hard times and sold those off??

The puppy love thing is so annoying. We get it -- he's your BEST friend EVER. Guess what - it feels like he's your BFF bc he's pretty much your ONLY friend ever since you weren't allowed to have those -- unless they came with a fundie mega family attached and then I guess they are ALL your friends. But seriously the amount of "concern" about not having cell reception in the woods? I guarantee they were not there for more than 2 nights -- the first night in the RV and the 2nd night it looks like the previews show everyone sleeps outdoors. And then I bet they left. So you can't survive 48 hrs w/o your man!? Looks like they have some advertisers again -- saw a Black and Decker commercial; some allergy med etc. But clearly there's not enough bc there were some LONG TLC commercials. What was the whole clip re Styling with Spurge?? Instead of just showing some outfits, we get to watch Bin strip his son and wrangle him into a onsie?? Seriously TLC -- need to kill 3-4 min??

It's Downingtown Pa a suburb about 30 min away from Philadelphia; though you couldn't hear it the way Jinger said it or she doesn't know the difference.

Kind of glad they catered that meal for Jeremy. Though given how wealthy they are and knowing you're feeding an Italian (i.e. people who love good food), couldn't they have ordered something more than a lasagna + salad?? Like a few sides? I sincerely hope when they meet Jeremy's parents -- if it happens in Arkansas -- they cater again and splurge for a full meal. I can already foresee some irritation from his family when they realize their son's wedding won't feature a sit down meal but rather Costco sheet cake or Dixie cups of ice cream or whatever it is Jinger likes for dessert. And love how Bin and Jessa know they have to plant themselves in a conversation in order to get the camera on them to keep the TLC money rolling. LOVED Bin's well thought out question of -- Jeremy do you still have an appetite? REALLY? Bc when I met Jessa I lost 10 lb in one week!?

I don't understand the older siblings' obsession with -- these times are soooo special bc we don't get to hang out anymore. Um -- 19 kids and 16 of you live and home and none are gainfully employed (though JD does stuff) or in school, you really don't have time to grab a coffee with Joseph or Jedidiah if you miss them so much?? And yes, I too wish the instructors had said - no skirts, go to Walmart and buy some jeans and meet us back here in 20 min if you want to participate. And when they showed the picnic table with that night vision camera -- didn't it look like there were open bags of chips, remaining paper plates etc. left there? I hope I saw that wrong bc who does that out in the woods where there are bears? Could Jill be any more miserable in Central America? Derick does seem happy though. I honestly don't think he's bothered by the living conditions or anything, and I REALLY think he is NOT interested in being a white collar type of guy who needs to sit at a desk 40 hrs/wk. I think he wants to be out and about all day long -- and if that means he needs to do bogus missions in remote places, he's up for it even if he has to be the headship and drag his wife along. Jeremy looked more handsome in this episode. What's the deal with him -- why does he look different in every photo and video?? He is a Philly Italian -- he just is, having grown up with so many of those guys. He mentioned Italian food and his mother/grandmother's cooking so many times. He's going to have some expectations of Jinger whipping up dinner for him if his basis for comparison is his Italian mother's cooking. And how can Jinger grow up in a household of 19 where the girls run the household and NOT know how to cook? Has she really never cooked?? Or did she not want to say bc they typically just throw together processed things involving canned food or tater tots?

Tyler is such a douche. He recognizes that B&T could close the adoption/not allow further visits and he DOES NOT CARE EXCEPT that it will affect his "career" which consists of "telling stories" about his life and his life includes someone else's kid. Guess what bro - they don't care if you're "career" is affected. They have given you 2nd, 3rd, and 4th chances when you have defied their requests regarding posting pics of their kid and whatever else. They have said ON CAMERA that they wouldn't hold Carly away or close the adoption when you were fighting with them re your "right" to post pics; I realize they could change their mind, but honestly they could have closed the adoption right then and there 2 yrs ago. They came to your freaking wedding. They didn't want their kid to meet your freak show of a family but stood by and smiled as your heroin addicted jail bird father met their kid. The only reason they've not closed the adoption for so long is bc of Cate. I think they do like her. They feel for her and her life and how it must be to give up her baby -- esp. Teresa. I liked that he said "if they said you could only see Carly if you live in a tan house, you'd paint the house tan" and she simply said "yes I would." That's a selfless mother you douchebag -- she'll do ANYTHING for the 1 hr/yr she gets with the baby she had to give away and she recognizes that she is not that child's parents and will defer to that child's parents' wishes so as not to offend them so that she can still keep in touch. It really is Tyler who thinks he is still Carly's parent and that she'll come running back to him at age 18 and that she thinks of him/calls him (WTF?) daddy. Cate OTOH gets it. Even at the wedding when Carly asked to dance with Tyler and Cate -- Cate's first words were -- did you ask your mom? Let's go see what she says. And if Teresa had said no, I fully believe she wouldn't have taken the child up to the dance floor. Tyler OTOH would've been like -- it's MY kid, I can do what I want.

Tyler irks me for so many reasons but his fixation on Cate's weight is ridiculous. He eats the SAME things she eats. When he made that heifer comment, he was acting like she was eating a HUGE chicken and cheese quesadilla while he was eating a garden salad -- and that totally wasn't the case. And if he thinks he still looks he looked 7 yrs ago in high school, he needs to grab a mirror. He was truly skinny in high school. Now his face has puffed up. Given a lifestyle of sitting around and not even working and both of them eating take out junk all the time, if he gets into the habit of cracking open a beer after a long day of social media "work," he is right on track to be a tubby 35 yr old man.

That kind of explains why Jen and Larry have pretty much always been on Maci's side since day 1. I'm sure they had issues once in a while, but by and large they have given a lot of credit to Maci for raising their grandson -- likely bc they realize what it's like to have to do that in your teens. And it explains why they seem so happy for Maci now -- despite a teen pregnancy, she managed to make herself an empire and is now engaged with 2 more kids. Things are falling into place for her now, while their son -- 7 yrs after the fact -- appears to be living at home and pretty much doing what he was doing in 2009.

How did parents like Jen and Larry raise a 28 yr old "kid" like Ryan? They really do see happy for Maci and I almost feel like Larry is thinking -- wow had my son made it work with Macy, it would be him with a house, a wife, and 2 sons and a daughter. I laughed when he said -- I'm not worried that he's not with someone at 28, but by 30 I'm going to panic. Lol. Very southern. He and Jen seem like they're probably 50-ish, which means they had Ryan a 22 and probably married right around that age. So while they're trying to be "cool" -- a 28 yr old should be married with a mortgage and a few kids by now and yet theirs just fails to -- or refuses to -- launch. It was sweet the way that Larry thanked Jen for his life, his family -- and all her effort into Ryan and Bentley. I'm glad he recognizes it, though somehow I don't see Ryan ever acknowledging any woman he's with that way -- he'll just assume it's her God given duty to birth the children and raise them.

I have to say while Jen and Larry clearly did things that enabled their own son to be an irresponsible loser type, I love how hard they work to make the entire group a family. When she announced the engagement at the MTV party in LA -- Larry is seen hugging Maci; Jen is hugging Maci's fiancé; then Larry is seen holding Jade -- who is not even his grandchild -- while hugging Maci's fiancé and giving him a kiss on the cheek as you would for a son. They really are trying to make a family for Bentley and showing that they will accept his mom, stepdad and half sister even though they aren't related to these people in any way.

So are Derick and Jill back for good or is this another one of those -- here for a month, Central America for a month things? Also where do they live when they're back -- do they have the mansion still? In that insta video that they posted congratulating Jessa and Ben -- that was made in the US right? Seemed like it from the background, furniture etc. So my question is -- why on earth is Derick sporting a greasy man bun now that he's back in the U.S. where he has access to running water - hot and cold - 24/7 and has access to a Hair Cuttery every few miles? I can see not bathing as much when he was living someplace with rolling water outages, but what is the excuse here??!