cereality

It's been said before that Zach and Warden can cook and like to cook. It's likely Lawson doesn't/can't cook -- but we have seen him and Nathan before helping Kelly with simple food tasks -- like chopping up vegetables for a salad; so I can see him taking the initiative to slice up the cake. It's good that in such a huge family, they haven't designated cooking as "womens work" -- bc it is obviously a huge chore and while I think Kelly and some of the older girls (Alyssa/Michael?) are/were in charge -- it's good that they have help and can take the day off and it isn't ALWAYS their responsibility.

As overwhelmed as Brandon looks with the family, I will say both he and Michael seem genuinely good with kids. Every time we see him visit, he has a kid attached to his hip from the moment he exits the car until the moment he leaves - as does Michael - and he does NOT seem like he's being forced to carry them around or that he's annoyed at all. If anything -- I feel like he likes the little kids much better than the teens and his peer inlaws. I have a feeling he got married in very large part so he could have a family - and fulfill his Godly duty of repopulating the earth with lots of fundy kids. He likes Michael, sure, but they just don't seem to have the "married" relationship that the others have. I mean when we saw the wedding episodes/honeymoon pics of Zach, Chad, and John -- there were some definite "unholy" looks on the guys' faces -- you could totally tell what part of the day they were looking forward to and it wasn't the wedding cake or the nice dinner. Brandon's honeymoon episode - he acted like they were hanging out with his sister. I hope they figure out and have babies bc THAT is what he is looking forward to -- not just hanging out with each other.

True Kelly was on the phone with Erin for seemingly forever going - well it can't be Chattanooga bc we're on the wrong highway etc. And it seemed very natural - like they call each other any time for any reason without any kind of conversation topic in mind. Seems like her and Michael may be that way too . . . .

This family really loves each other and loves its time together. You can tell it isn't obligatory. I wonder if Gil and Kelly feel bad that they are just less close with Alyssa and John. Alyssa has gotten plenty close with her inlaws and with her first pregnancy even said her sisters in law knew weeks in advance of her family. She hangs out with John's family a few times a week and then you can tell they view her family as a big noisy obligation that messes up her cute house. Just the way Kelly and Alyssa were talking about - how's the pregnancy going - made it seem like they don't talk often; and it didn't seem like a made for tv convo given how short it was and how noisy the background. And noticeable that when Kelly said they'd stay in a motel, then Alyssa said anyone can come. Somehow I picture Kelly talking to Michael daily - I think she was even sending her pics from the train ride. Don't picture that with Alyssa. I know Gil and Kelly understand that each kid and their family will differ and don't force the "you all must be each other's best friends" but I wonder if it does hurt their feelings - they know she loves them but prefers not to be involved.

They have an Instagram that shows their life somewhat. But the pics look very "posed" to me -- i.e. we need to show that we're as interesting as Erin/Chad, Zach/Whit, Alyssa/John -- so lets post that we went to this coffee shop or made this snowman or you brought me roses. It's true that they're more reserved -- but then so are Alyssa and John. Honestly Michael and Brandon still strike me as if they're in that polite getting to know you period -- him sweetly doing the things he thinks he should (flowers; poems); her doing what she should (cooking for him; talking about how sweet her man is); and them doing things they think the other will find "fun" -- like playing in the snow. Yet they strike me as if they are just waiting for kids to come along bc they feel that's when their marriage will REALLY start. In reality that'll just end the awkwardness with each other bc they won't have time for it when they have 3 kids under age 4. The other couples just seem more "real" to me and have built up a true connection in their marriages -- and aren't just living in a super polite courtship. Alyssa * John are reserved with the cameras and her family -- but I think they have a true bond with each other and probably talk to each other all the time; if this were them, Alyssa and John would just talk out whether and when to seek out a dr. rather than John just saying "let's pray on it" with Alyssa politely agreeing but wondering how long they leave this up to God but not wanting to ask. They work together towards common goals -- like their cleaning company. Chad & Erin -- they appear to have more individual hobbies with Chad and furniture and Erin and her music recordings, and they come together to support their partner and then of course Chad brings the overly sugary sweet romance. Zach & Whit -- they don't even seem fundie to me and I wonder if they are officially fundie lite now. They really talk and interact like another other 20 something couple and neither one would have a problem telling the other anything.

And when you're raised to believe that everything is always God's will -- even if you aren't against medical care -- it's got to be hard to swallow that it isn't God's will for you to birth 10 believers in 10 yrs and that may not happen at all and you may need medical help to have even 1-2 kids. I mean these 2 got married in very large part so they could be parents and have a Gil/Kelly type of family and raise them in the manner in which they were raised. He (and she) may be feeling like -- I did everything right -- obsessed about religion since birth; became a minister; never kissed a girl or even held a hand until my wife; never had a girlfriend -- and THIS is how I get repaid??!

Noticed the same thing with Michael holding a sewing machine on her lap! Must be preference though - she could use her tiny kitchen table or the desk Brandon sat at to draw or even sit on the floor and use the coffee table. As for the basketball court, I think they have a lot of land but I don't think that much of that land is flat. There was a pretty big incline behind the court. And they've shown that they have a swing set that pretty much is sitting on a straight incline. Sure they could create a flat plane on a hill but it's more labor intensive and expensive. Shocked they didn't ask Prince Chad to come take care of it.

So it's super obvious that Brandon and Michael are the most fundy of marriages in that family so far. Sorry but she looked a little pathetic and looked like she was getting teary lamenting about how they hit the [gasp] 6 month mark weren't pregnant yet unlike their siblings and friends. And even Kelly -- who normally acts normal -- went on about how she knows it hurts Michael to not be a mom yet. And then even Michael says -- but we have to wait until our 1 yr anniversary to see a specialist. Uh yeah --bc if 2 26-27 yr olds showed up in a panic about how they haven't gotten pregnant in 6 months, most doctors in Chicago (who likely won't be fundy unlike East Tenn. drs.) would roll their eyes and tell them to go have some fun in bed and enjoy their freedom. They're acting like 6 months is more like 6 YEARS. And it's super clear that they got married just to populate God's army bc Brandon even says -- this time [married but not being parents] isn't time wasted. WTH!? I'm sure that's religious speak re how thankful you are to even have a partner etc. But give me a break!? Let's hope you don't consider marriage w/o kids on day 1 to be a waste. I'm fairly sure most people get married bc they love their partner, not just bc they want to make a baby yearly. [Gasp] some people even choose to be married for a few yrs without kid -- it's not some kind of hardship they muddle through as Brandon and Michael appear to be. For their sake I hope they get pregnant quick and then at least 10 more times after that -- bc then the next 2-3 decades of their lives will fly by as mom and dad -- and they won't have to interact with each other much beyond -- Timmy needs new shoes again and can you feed the baby while I tend to the other kids.

There was a part where they said Warden and Zach are both great cooks -- so they probably are. But there was definitely a part where Zach was talking about how boys and girls learn all tasks and as the oldest, he learned and is THE best at all of them. That's when Whit laughed and gave him a "give me a break," and Zach smiled his sly grin and said he was being modest! It's cute bc it's so NORMAL.

While they are fundie and obviously don't talk about religion on camera, I love that this family appears to be what it says it is in regular life. The episode was kind of boring. Yet the highlight was Warden cooking. Interesting that they said there are no boy or girl jobs in their family, everyone learns how to do everything. Yet it wasn't a cooked up, made for TV project. It looks like Warden is the only preteen boy with an interest in cooking, so HE is the one who goes over to Erin's to cook with her -- not him and a gaggle of disinterested siblings. And I loved that she didn't talk it down like a preteen interest -- rather she was encouraging him and saying if he kept going, he could be a chef and lots of chefs are men; they don't seem "embarrassed" as in -- it's womens' work, let's keep it on the DL that you're into this. We've seen Warden cook before as well -- I think he baked the birthday cake for Trace; Gil was watching over him asking -- HOW DID YOU LEARN THIS!? And even then he said, Erin was teaching him. And I tend to believe that they aren't rigid about women/men's tasks. I feel like we've seen scenes where the kids are left at home for a weekend with the older kids and Lawson/Nathan are shown cleaning up and mopping floors after everyone. In the last episode when they were having the whole family over, Lawson, Trace, and Nathan were seen in the kitchen with Kelly and it did not look made for TV at all -- they were doing simple tasks like making salad or washing potatoes, but efficiently so it's likely they do them all the time. Also LOVE Whit and Zach together. When Zach says -- as the oldest, he learned and is the best at everything -- Whitney rolls her eyes and says "give me a break," just like any twenty something couple would do. None of that fawning at the headship BS . . . they just seem like a normal, fun young couple.

I'm actually impressed by how much this family has opened its mind and loosened its grip on its 20+ yr old kids ESP when you think about their friends in Arkansas that lump their 25 yr olds with their 5 yr olds. Interesting that Bobby asked about courting Tori and Gil said - not yet, you need to know each other more. Their "get to know you" period is basically dating and it seems that it is the time where there's no shame in walking away if you find you're not compatible or even if you are but you can't make your lives connect - ie Nathan and his girlfriend from NYC. It seems like "courting" has just become a formality that you enter into to declare that you are getting married; maybe it's just to give the guy a few months to save up for a ring and find the perfect way to ask. And they've even said the engagement is just to give the family time to plan a wedding. But you can tell Gil isn't trying to just get another daughter off payroll - he is invested in them being right for each other and happy for life which will only happen if they have time to really get to know each other. And then with Trace they were talking about Dixie Stampede requiring that he perform and dance with girls. They talked about how they never danced as a family and how Gil views teenage dancing as too up close and personal. But there was NO attempt up control their 20 yr "child" - no discussion of unrighteous desires or sins or whatever - just that their kid was old enough to pursue this job and his interests. And then Zach talked about dancing in a very level headed way saying - all that matters is your intent in doing something. I think Gil and Kelly would agree - they still may not allow their teens to bump and grind at a local club for fun, but there is a difference when their 20 yr old son wants a job in a horse show and part of the show involves doing choreographed dances at a family friendly setting.

I feel like Erin and Chad aggressively sought out treatment and would have done the same if the problem had been with Chad -- though I'm sure they would have kept it on the DL that Prince Chad was having trouble getting his woman pregnant. It just seems like Chad and Erin have a more "equal" marriage -- or at least as equal as a fundie marriage can be. Meaning if Chad had taken the approach of -- it's God's will, we'll just keep trying -- and who knows maybe he did -- I feel like Erin would have felt comfortable saying to him she didn't want to just sit and wait and she believed it was God's will that they seek out medical care and Chad would have moved mountains to get them to the right doctor. With Brandon and Michaela -- I just don't know. I feel like Brandon "controls" the marriage in that quiet, headship way. So if Brandon says --it's God's will -- I bet Michaela just nods along, even if she would rather seek out medical advice; I feel like she probably can't even bring it up and if she brings it up, he'll shut it down and tell her they need to simply pray harder. It's the set up for guilt and resentment for the wife bc she wants something desperately that she isn't getting and she can't seek out medical advice bc her husband says no/it isn't necessary/doesn't believe in it . . . .

Just saw a preview for the new season starting on Thursday -- and it looks like Brandon and Michaels ARE having trouble conceiving and are choosing to be open about it/discuss it on the show. I'm a bit surprised with the openness actually -- though maybe it makes their lives easier this way bc all of their fundie friends and family members won't be in their face as much or whispering about why 18 months post-wedding there isn't a baby yet. In the preview Michaela says that she always assumed when you want to start a family, you start one -- she didn't anticipate/realize there would be problems. And then Brandon said something about leaving it in God's hand and viewing this as God saying -- not right now -- rather than saying no. I hope Brandon turns out to be like Chad -- supportive of his wife no matter what. I mean they're young so they probably will have a baby, but I hope he can still make her feel special/content even if she ends up not being a mom -- given that that was her life's goal.

I bet Iz loves -- or will love when he gets older -- going to Cathy's house. Sure the TTH seems more fun, but at the end of the day he is just one of a pack of grandkids and younger kids who are viewed as a nuisance by JB and Michelle and the older sister moms who must chase after them. At Cathy's, I bet he is the center of attention -- sitting Cathy's lap; her and maybe his step grandpa entertaining him, reading to him, playing with him; and Cathy probably cooking him his favorite foods or having his favorite snacks on hand just for him. Nice to see Cathy reading to him bc you know there won't be much book learning happening in his own home. One can only hope it was a secular book like Twas the Night before Christmas or maybe something about Santa.

I think they're advising men to wait 6 months now if they've been in a Zika country. The initial advisory was only to wait 2 months if you had no symptoms which would make August to Oct ok - but given that they're just now learning about the virus and how long it can live in men even if you're a symptomatic and don't test positive - why on earth would you risk it when you could just wait 4 extra months?!

I have to say I'm slightly surprised they're pregnant. Derick just doesn't look that - um - virile? But for all the snark, I am glad that they are both healthy. Though when did they return from Central America? Maybe they did purposefully decline to conceive in Central America, but didn't they get back just a few months ago. If she's at 3 months, she was pregnant in September? I thought if you were returning from a zika zone, you're supposed to wait for a long time -- like 6 months. I think the mother can be tested to see if she contracted zika/is a carrier, but I think you have to wait bc zika can live in sperm for months. How could she NOT have medical care this time around? Didn't she have a ridiculously long/dangerous labor followed by an emergency C-section? I can't remember which birth was hers and which was Jessa's -- I don't think she was the one that had a transfusion after; I thought she was the one with the C-section. Haven't had kids so I don't know for sure, but isn't delivering normally after a c section a BIG deal even in the hospital with medical care? I know a few women who have wanted to try it and there were strict dr. instructions - as in - at the first sign of x or y symptom, there will be a repeat c section, we just can't risk it. How on earth could you risk it at home without doctors, medical equipment, an operating room, and a team full of MDs standing by just in case!?

How nice would it be for Jeremy -- and for Jinger -- to spend most/all of the holidays with HIS family? If he has to spend it at the Duggars, he'll be blown away by the miserable silence of it all -- though I guess he can pal around with Bin when it gets to uncomfortable. At his house, I imagine things are livelier even with this batshit fundie parents. I imagine his siblings coming and going, maybe he has aunts and uncles that bring some personality, Christmas music playing, baked goods everywhere, maybe they do the 7 fishes on Christmas Eve - or maybe they don't but do a fish dish and/or some other Italian traditional foods, and then of course either they go to grandmas for Christmas or she comes to them - and we KNOW she has some spunk and personality. And then if they're in town for 3-5 days -- they can go up to NYC for a day or two; maybe hang with Luis and his family and Jinger can see what a regular household with married 20 somethings is like etc. All of this would be so good for Jinger. To be around "regular" (albeit fundie) families where there is real laughter, real friends etc. -- not just made for TV friends or an attitude of - oh we don't need friends, my 5 yr old sister is my BFF!! Though I know I had the same "dreams" for Jill -- that being around Derick's college educated, executive mom and being around his college educated friends and being around a college educated husband who presumably is into news, sports, TV etc. would make her more "worldy." We can see how that turned out. Though I tell myself, Jill was/is WAY more of a kool aid drinker than Jinger, so she probably resisted a lot more to any part of Derick's life that she viewed as fundie-lite and instead pulled Derick into her direction of fundy-ism. Plus Derick isn't the manliest of men -- I imagine conversations between them sounding like a 6th grade boyfriend and girlfriend -- i.e. "what do you want to do, I don't know, what do you want to do." So then when Jill suggested Christmas with her family, Derick ran with it. I view Jer as more of the "traditional" headship. If he wants Christmas with his family, he'll make it known and Jinger may actually want to follow bc she seems over her family anyway - besides Jessa; frankly maybe she's even over Jessa a bit bc I imagine it hurt to be "dropped" as she was when Jessa got married and had a baby and decided her new BFF was Jill bc they have sooo much in common now that a single BFF just wouldn't get.

Is the pic above from Jinger's wedding? JD talking to 2 beautiful ladies and even touching their shoulders for a pic?? Here's hoping he chatted it up with some women and thus realized that he CAN talk to women and here's hoping some women realize that he is a hard working, sincere guy - nothing like his father or older brother.

I think the stuff people said about control and making a TV show is right, BUT I think it also has to do with the loser sons in law he is now attracting. Given the family's fall from grace due to all the Josh stuff, they are getting bottom of the barrel candidates for their daughters (and none for their sons). But it's still important for the daughters to marry and have a headship. So while JB is asking the questions re how he'll provide for his wife -- in person and on the 50 pg application -- in reality he can't be all that choosy. He is attracting candidates like Bin and Jer who have no careers and just have vague notions of ministry and are famewhores hoping that being associated with a Duggar launches some kind of revenue generating ministry or he's attracting people like Derick who had a career but then come on board and suddenly realize that a clingy wife who wants them home 24-7 whose daddy can provide a house and a tv show paycheck is an easier life than 40 hrs/wk with a clingy wife who complains that you work too much. So JB feels he MUST take these candidates bc that's all the choice he's got and bc he doesn't want to see his daughters and grandkids starve, he must create a job for them. Right now it's the TV show; when that burns out, I bet he' be doling out revenue from the cell phone towers and warehouses bc he still won't to see his daughters starve. It's different with the Bates. They haven't been attracted sons in law who are losers or famewhores. They have attracted "traditional" candidates who realize they better be financially able to support a wife and up to a dozen children bc their inlaws (or their parents) aren't going to be in any position to help. Thus far the sons in law have included a minister with an actual paid job with ATI; a finance manager at a metals shop; a guy who owns an HVAC company with his brothers who works from sun up until well past sun down; and a courtship partner who is in college and presumably looking to find himself an occupation that'll support a wife. Joy and her husband will be the first ones who will be off and stay off JB's payroll (I have a feeling Jer/Jing will bounce back after 1-2 yrs in Laredo) bc his parents have an established business and he is one of 2 kids so he HAS to run that business.

In a way I don't think it's bad for Jinger to be in a situation where there's some obligation on her time as the preacher's wife. It gives her an excuse to go to work with him daily and actually do something -- though I imagine it may be just minding the children (bc I think they showed a kids room at the church) or simple secretarial tasks. It would allow her to get out of the house and meet the other wives in the "congregation" which can only be good for someone who has never interacted with people who aren't relatives or TLC crew. Plus it gives her something to do besides driving Jer to and from working and pining away for him the rest of the time. Though I will say she may not realize that the preacher's wife in a small congregation does a lot and she isn't exactly a hard working type of person. Though she was raised by Jessa - a bona fide bully - so I doubt she'll work too hard or do anything she doesn't want to do; chances are she'll lord her status as the handsome young preacher's wife over everyone and thus make them do everything she doesn't want to do.

I have a feeling Babe is going to age quickly like Derick. I think these "older" (not old - but not 19 like Bin) fundie guys really get off on marrying these young naïve girls. They get themselves a virgin who has never even touched let alone kissed or even been friends with another guy and she is all theirs. Great. Except a few weeks into it, guys who've had regular lives -- jobs, school, friends -- realize how overwhelming it is to be the only object of fascination for a 22 yr old with no education; no job; no interest in school/work; no friends besides her sisters; no exposure to TV, news, movies, sports, music, or anything else that 20 somethings talk about. I have a feeling Jing will be taking the Anna and Jill newlywed path -- driving Jer to work daily and then sitting in his 2 bedroom church all day while he does his minister thing. And then on days when she can't sit with him at work, she will sit by the window waiting for him to come home and then guilt him about -- Baaabe I miss you so much, you're gone so many hours a day and I'm so lonely here all alone esp. since my sisters aren't here in Laredo. I think it's cute to marry someone so meek and innocent and then it starts to weigh on you quick when you have to explain why it's important to eat vegetables and what hummus is. I mean why doesn't he look happy in the honeymoon video and pics? Don't want to read too much into pictures. Maybe he really is tired from the wedding, 24+ hr flight to Australia, and having to hit it 2-3 time a day. But they married about 2 weeks ago now and he's a young healthy man who shouldn't be THAT worn out from a long flight or getting it up a few times a day. Could it be that hearing -- Baaabe, what do you mean you want to go running and leave me alone hotel for 20 min OR I've never had potatoes like this only as tots -- is already starting to make him wonder what he got into!?

I tend to agree that JB hasn't married off a son yet bc he's not interested in taking on an additional financial burden. In these patriarchal cultures, the reason a girl gets married differs from why a guy gets married. A girl HAS TO get married bc she NEEDS TO. Pre-marriage, her father provides for her -- financially; makes her decisions; "protects her." But obviously parents get older, so a girl NEEDS TO marry bc she NEEDS a man who will provide for her after her father can't; she NEEDS a man who will "look out" for her and make her decisions. And she NEEDS something to do and what higher prize in their faith than birthing babies and raising them and keeping house for a man? A guy -- yeah it's nice if he marries and has a family. But at the end of the day, he can only do that if he is able to financially provide for a wife and kids. That's why in "traditional" cultures (not the Duggars) they put a lot more emphasis on a son's education than a daughters bc they realize a son has to be able support a family, while a daughter doesn't. In this case, JB is getting a string of loser sons in laws that he already has to provide for - so he hasn't even been able to get daughters off his payroll. Then there's the one married son who turned out to be a cheater who can't hold down a job, so he's had to take that daughter in law and those 3 or 4 (can't remember?) grandkids back onto his payroll. Last thing he needs is MORE mouths to feed/houses to provide -- which is exactly what'll happen given that they have never encouraged any of their sons to pursue any kind of college, trade school, or career. Rather when the sons get to be of age, he sets them up with a "business" -- but the reality is that JB knows that buying used cars and selling them out of an open field is not going to support Josh + Anna + their 3-4 kids; plus a wife and 3-4 kids for each of Josiah; Joseph; Jed; and Jeremiah. Selling a used Toyota every now and again can't support 30 people. It seems like JD is the only one of these people who is/can be self supporting, yet I don't think his towing business can take on more than 1 other brother and all the other things he does with construction, police, piloting etc. requires working for other people who won't hire any of his brothers because they have no skills or training and no desire to develop any.

We only saw them for 2 seconds but Joy and Austin act and have the body language of friends, not lovers; she even refers to him as a friend! Hope some chemistry develops. Maybe she get some tips from big sis Jing. They're SOOO conservative that they can't even talk to a guy until he does 50 pgs of paperwork for daddy but it's ok to let the world know how horny you are? I mean when Jing longingly stood outside the church and said "I can't wait to . . ." and paused for so long that Jer had to say - be my wife? Why didn't she just let us know that she can't wait for her man to get it up and put it in and rock her world?!? Yep these people are religious conservatives - not . . . .

Sad that the only time they get individual attention from their parents is when the parents find a man to marry them off to. Then it's all -- oohh we LOVE you SO much and are SO sad you're leaving and you've always been SOOO precious. Where was all this positive affirmation for Jinger and Joy for the last 2 decades!?

I didn't get why Josie's nurse was there? Was she just a guest bc they consider her a "friend" now for 1000 person wedding purposes, so they did a moment with her on camera? Also - no reception? Honestly it would be better to do no reception at all/just take the 2 families out to dinner after than to do a reception consisting of ice cream in a parking lot in November. I thought at the end they were going to be shown walking into the reception as they walked through double doors -- but it looked like they were walking back into the chapel and heading up to the stage to do pictures in front of the V.