cereality

50 or so layoffs in a huge corporation are really not that "significant" and I imagine that they are going after "higher priced" people, not people who are being paid a starting salary like Derick. In any event, while I'm not a fan -- why are people "wishing" for a layoff for him? That's a terrible thing for anyone to have to go through in any stage of a career. If anything I hope this makes him "realize" that things like this can happen to anyone at anytime and maybe he should focus 100% on his work at work, rather than texting Jilly, making lunch plans with her, or taking days off or whatever else it is he does.

The Duggar son/son in law would just ask for JB and Michelle to send over a sister to take care of cooking, laundry, and cleaning. I'm impressed at Chad's initiative in acting like a husband and dad and just taking care of household stuff himself. I do think Erin is conditioned to having child after child, but I tend to believe them a little -- if a dr. told them to stop or that they needed to wait a significant amount of time between kids bc she couldn't be on heparin again immediately, I feel like they'd wait or at least consider waiting. I don't see them limiting to 1-2 kids -- I think they'll do everything possible to still have a large family, but large may mean like 4-6 and not 12 or 19.

Derick and his mom are definitely kool aid drinkers -- can't tell about the brother yet. I mean he sought JB out. Even if he wasn't doing it to get a daughter's hand in marriage, I find it hard to believe that you can live in NW Arkansas and not know who the Duggars are; they are local celebrities and have been on TV for a decade. Even if you don't watch the show, you know they are known fundies. Someone who wasn't into that or didn't want anything to do with that would not seek out that family as prayer partners or even for mission funding. You'd instead reach out to your own (Baptist or whatever he is) church and find prayer partners and/or financial support that way. I think Cathy seems annoyed around the Duggars, but I don't know if that's bc she necessary disagrees with their religious values. It's likely because she disagrees with their "social" values -- skirts; no education; girls can't work/leave the home/text a boyfriend/have a boyfriend etc. -- and likely bc she also finds them loud, boorish and quick to overtake her and Dan. I mean she made a snarky comment to Michelle when Michelle said something about how well Derick was raised and she said "well we used the same book you did." But I don't think she necessarily disagrees with their religious perspective too much.

Beards are in generally -- every other guy I know has a scruffy beard going on right now. Plus in that family it's all about what you're "allowed" to do. Once Derick showed up with a beard, Joseph and Josiah could follow suit without JB telling them to go shave -- I mean if your son in law has a beard, why can't I? I haven't seen any recent pics; I'm a bit surprised about Joseph though -- Crown College seems SO conservative that you'd think they'd have rules about haircuts and beards -- i.e. all men must be clean shaven.

Maybe this isn't accurate, but I always felt like guys learn how to be manly by hanging with other guys their age and by being competitive -- everything from football practice to trash talking over video games. I feel like fundies separate out their boys from society -- they all homeschool, they aren't a part of their communities (though Derick was in college) so they aren't playing on sports teams etc, they're being raised by men who are generally duds, and the emphasis is always on "what would Jesus want" and keeping sweet. I don't find the Bates boys to be as feminine, yet even in that family I feel like if Kelly heard Lawson trash talking with a friend, there would be a lecture about how it wasn't Christian -- instead of a "eh it's what 20 yr old men do." So that results in guys who are pretty feminine, including Derick. I don't find Ben to be feminine, and it appears that he actually has his own friends as well as a best friend in college, if his wedding party is an indication-- so maybe there's something to that. All the Duggar men fall into that category of being feminine, including the same vibe from Derick as he's willing to profess his girl-ish excitement regarding a pregnancy test and his child; I'm not saying that men aren't excited about these things, but they express it differently. I think Chad is hot and would never imagine him being feminine, and when I saw the episode re the miscarriages, it seemed like he was ready to cry every time he talked about it in the TH and said "it wasn't easy," but then I thought -- they lost a child, it's hard on the father too, and he has to watch his wife suffer. Then I watched some web clip of them where Erin had just got done saying that her dream was some fairytale princess proposal and she was so worried that she'd get with a guy who wouldn't understand how important it was to her, and again we have Chad with tears in his eyes and his voice shaking saying "I didn't want to mess anything up." It's like -- dude -- grow a pair; I mean do a nice job, but you really don't have to cry about whether or not it'll be everything she hopes bc she's just thrilled that you put a ring on it and will give her babies soon.

I don't know if the Bates/Duggar friendship has soured or if there wasn't that deep of a friendship to start with. The first time the Bates ever appeared on the Duggars' show, they said something like -- we met at a homeschool/other fundie conference and we haven't seen each other in 5-10 years. How close friends are you if you don't see each other regularly? Then it seemed like TLC wanted story lines and the Duggars probably mentioned the Bates so we got treated to trips to Tn. showing how 2 mega families interact. I'm not sure that that makes you BFFs. Of course it was the Christian thing to do for the Bates to invite the Duggars in, and they benefited too -- getting a home renovation they desperately needed and a short lived TLC show; I bet they thought of the Duggars as a "blessing" -- i.e. they needed a bigger house and some money and God sent them the Duggars and TLC. Since then I bet they've kept in touch bc the Bates know they may benefit more in the future -- and frankly the exposure on TLC obviously played a part in them getting a following, which I'm sure leads to all kinds of fan gifts and love offerings at Erin, Zach, and Alyssa's weddings, people who will buy Lawson's CDs, a show on UPTv, easier for their kids to get jobs because there's a chance people in Tn will say -- oh right, you're Erin's fiancé, we saw you on TV -- we could use another worker at our metals factory and we know you're a stand up guy moving here to marry the Bates daughter. I'm sure through all this the families have gotten to know each other better than they did when they just saw each other at conferences. It's likely that Kelly and Gil do see the Duggars as being boorish. Their howlers are unruly, while the Bates' little kids seem well behaved. I mean JB thinks nothing of showing up with his brood of 19 on short notice or just staying extra days after he shows up; I mean having that many extra people visit is an inconvenient no matter how nice your hosts are. Just because you stopped to fellowship on your way to DC doesn't mean you have to park yourselves for an extra 2 days because your hosts are kicking you out and you're in no rush to get to DC. I don't see Tori/Carlin with Joseph. I feel like the girls (whichever one he supposedly wants to court) won't go for it. Or Kelly may quietly tell them -- don't start a "get to know you period" unless you REALLY want to court him bc it'll look "bad" or lead to tension with a "known" family in Gothard world if after 2 weeks you decide he's a dud and it'll hurt the girls when they're looking for a real fundie courtship bc word may have gotten out that they've rejected a Duggar. I mean I think a Tori-Joseph marriage could work, but wouldn't be fun for Tori. She seems sassy and real and seems like she has friends and wants "excitement' and he seems like a dud just like JD, who'd be happy living a herp derp country life and probably sees Nashville as a BIG vacation. Meanwhile I feel like she'd want someone like Chad -- someone who wants to do stuff, saves up to take her to Ireland on a honeymoon, and generally seems to be funny/have some personality. OTOH -- she could wear the pants in the marriage bc Joseph seems so reserved and clueless that just getting sex may be enough for him to say yes to anything -- it could look like a Ben and Jessa pairing, though he's no where as hot as Ben and has the typical Duggar male look -- I can see him getting pudgy by age 25 and he already has the receding hairline.

New Duggar commercial airing on TLC for the new season in Feb -- it was on during the Kate + 8 show. It shows them sitting down with the family with Derick announcing "the pregnancy test said positive" -- with a requisite shot of the older sisters with Jana squealing with excitement. I guess they re-created it for the cameras, but Jill had said that her sisters urged her to take the test, Derick was in there with her, and when they came out of the bathroom the sisters were like "OMG you're pregnant." Guess the cameras weren't around to capture it, so they had to re-do it. There's also a shot of an ultrasound with Derick saying "hi baby I'm you're daddy." I know people on here like him, but the dude seems so girly and lame to me; not that other fathers won't say that but it's just his overall affect -- of OMG bald eagles mate for life and OMG I'm so emotional seeing my baby. I don't think it's uncommon for fundie guys to be lacking masculinity . . . .

I really like them and am really happy for them, but am I the only one who feels like this has been a little over the top? People on this site are saying that she must be 15-16 weeks and Chad's blog says they waited longer than normal to tell because they're high risk -- so I think she's probably into month 3 or 4. Just FOUR episodes ago, they were both on SO teary about how "this hasn't been easy" and they're heartbroken at not being able to be parents and looking generally miserable at Z+W's baby shower -- particularly Chad. I get it -- I'm sure the losses hurt A LOT. BUT before that episode was to air -- just one month ago -- they knew they were pregnant. Couldn't they have gone to TLC and said "we need to tone down our interviews a bit, yes we were sad but not THAT sad and hopeless and things have worked out now." IIRC Zach had a Christmas time wedding and they were 1-2 months before that. That means if they married in Oct 2013 and right now she's 3 months along -- she was pregnant around Oct 2014. Is it THAT big of a deal that it took a WHOLE year to conceive?? People face these kinds of challenges and it isn't pleasant, but they act like they're 45 and if they don't have a baby ASAP they may never have a family. To act like it was SO traumatic for them and then to announce a month later -- yeah it's all worked out -- seems like a slap to women (including fundies) who may be watching and not be able to conceive at all or have it take 3 yrs or 5 yrs or whatever. Knowing a pregnancy announcement was coming -- they could have just changed episode 1 to take the tone of -- yeah it's been hard but we've decided to relax and enjoy behind newlyweds and when it happens, it happens -- oh look, it happened.

Likely yes in the moment. I feel like Michelle will be there for the birth and a few sisters, and JB and crew will arrive shortly thereafter in the bus. Maybe Cathy and Dan will get to arrive when JB and co. do but 20 loud pushy relatives vs. 2 quiet ones -- no contest. But I do see Derick and Jill being sensitive to his mom and brother and carving out time with just their side. It won't be that day and may not even be right away, but Jill does hang out with his side of the family -- Thanksgiving, some eagle tour etc. -- so I don't see them completely saying "whatever" when it comes to his side. I think Derick will be super sensitive re his mom who has had such a rough time health wise and is looking forward to meeting her first grandkid who is also only her 3rd blood relative.

I'm really curious to know what a couple can do Saturday before lunch or Sunday afternoon that is so much more scandalous than say Saturday after lunch!? Are they thinking sex is more likely to happen on Saturday morning than Saturday night!? How is Joseph adjusting to this? They have never lived on a schedule in their whole lives -- they stay up until midnight, roll out of bed whenever, wander through the kitchen and eat whenever. And now he has to be up by 7:30 and probably at breakfast by 8 or 8:30. I bet if/when the schedule thing ever comes up - JB will be saying HARDY HAR HAR, we don't do that -- we're on Duggar time.

I'm not in the education field and don't know these religious schools, but I'm not understanding this -- how can a school have rules about dating? Who cares if a school defines dating as sitting next to each other at a meal or as lying in bed together, aren't they there to grant a degree and that's about it? I mean I've heard of some schools that have mens and womens dorms and opposite sex friends can't be in the dorms past a certain hour, doors must be open etc. But this goes much past that. Is Crown able to have such rules simply because it's unaccredited -- i.e. no state/national guidelines? And what happens if students break these rules? What if Joseph decides to sit next to a black girl at lunch at a private restaurant? Is this the kind of place where passerbys will report him to the school and then what -- he'll be kicked out? I'm just trying to wrap my brain around it -- went to an east coast ivy and even if it had such rules, I couldn't imagine any student caring enough about who someone sat next to at lunch and running to the dean to report it. I do wonder if this is an FU to Josiah or if things go well for Joseph, Josiah will get to follow. Josiah, Jed, and Jeremiah seem to be the more "academic" ones in that family, which I always lumped Joseph in with JD -- happy in a country town doing projects/manual labor. Josiah has expressed some interest in studying accounting. Apparently Crown offers business courses taught from a "Christian perspective." Not quite sure what that means as a net present value calculation is done the same way whether you're Christian or Buddhist, but it could at least give him some exposure to a field he finds interesting.

UP's website has very short (6-10 min total) clips of every episode. I'm not sure if this is the same episode in which Carlin and Tori took their drivers' tests, but on the clip -- Zach and Lawson went out driving with them and the commentary was totally what you'd expect between brothers and sisters. Lawson was telling them "slow down you're on the mountains of east Tn, you don't want to fly off the side of one" and later was standing behind the van as one of them was trying to park and saying "if I was a car, you would have hit me by now." Just good natured teasing and good humor that happens between siblings. I think the kids get along like friends in part because they HAVE friends and thus know how to interact with peer age groups. I think for the same episode, they had a web exclusive of one of the girls turning 14 and while it was just a have cake with friends can of party -- there were friends there who looked to be the birthday girl's age -- not just another mega family who was invited with their kids ranging from age 2 to 25. I remember the same being true when they showed Alyssa's birthday party on their last TV show (on TLC) -- GIl made a comment the next morning about how everyone was going to sleep in because when the teens' friends come over parties end up going pretty late. Nice to see normal social interaction.

Crown College claims to have somewhere between 900-1300 students. Even if 1/3 of them are girls, I'm having a hard time believing that JB and Gil Bates know 300-400 fundie girls enrolled there, such that they definitely know who Joseph is crushing on and her entire family history and Joseph and JB have had a chance to "pray about it" before taking her out to dinner and potentially giving away a piece of a heart. Chances are that a good number of people enrolled there are not fundie but conservative Christians like Whitney who are unknowns to the Gothard folks. So I still think Joseph showed up on campus and like any red blooded male, started chatting it up with some girl he found cute without giving too much thought to whether JB approves or not; good for him.

Damn -- that was quick. When did he start college -- January term or Sept? Even if it's Sept -- it only took 4 months of him out from under JB's thumb to decide he's a normal male who likes to talk to girls and there's nothing wrong with eating dinner with one on occasion to get to know her better. I guess he's brain washed enough to bring a chaperone, though I guess he knows that news travels fast esp if he's living with or hanging with the Bates and he wouldn't want one of the Bates boys to tell their parents "why do I need a chaperone, Joseph has been going out with a girl without a chaperone for months" as that'll result in a quick call to JB and that may put an end to the college thing and Joseph's newly acquired freedom. Though in a college setting, a chaperone doesn't look so bad esp if you don't call them your "chaperone," since so many college kids do the group dating/hanging out with the opposite sex thing rather than one on one formal dates. Wonder what JB and Michelle think of this? I mean the males are allowed to find their own girls -- I mean Josh did. But the parents still expect to "counsel" and I'm sure Josh had to do a lot of groveling about "but I've prayed about it for months and God has laid it on my heart that I should court Anna." Here they let Joseph out of the house for a hot second, and he finds himself a girl that I'm sure JB knows nothing about!? I wonder if JB and Michelle are realizing that despite all the indoctrination, their sons are red blooded males just like anyone else or if they're regretting letting him go??

Who are the people who generally follow the Duggars? Not being snarky -- I'm actually curious bc I looked at that posting re Joseph's 20th birthday and how he's at Crown College and there are 100s of comments where posters offer congratulations, talk about how wonderful the fam is, how Godly they are, how there's nothing wrong with marrying at 19 with no education and the goal of having 10 kids etc. All of this is on Facebook -- where names are visible -- not nicknames like Jill's IG -- so I wonder who these people are? I keep it to myself that I watch the Duggars and snark, I certainly wouldn't be posting my like or dislike of them any place my friends and colleagues could know about this guilty pleasure. It can't be other fundies bc I though many/most were against tv/internet -- or is that just a Duggar rule? So it's conservative Christians? Or some other population that holds them in SUCH high regard?

Has this been shown on the Bates' show? I don't get UP and the episodes aren't on youtube. I'm guessing JB could have asked Gil and Kelly if they'd house Joseph for 2-4 yrs of college and I'm guessing they'd say yes as it would be their "duty" to help another family. But I don't know -- it's kind of a burden to ask a family with 16 kids at home to house and feed yours too -- though I doubt it would cost more than a few cents per day to cook up another serving of casserole or oatmeal or whatever. Assuming he is in TN and not stuck on a computer doing online school, it's good for him -- he'll go in knowing Nathan and Tori and will make friends with other students -- something those kids sorely lack as they have no outside exposure. I wonder if he enrolled there bc a courtship is in the works with Tori already? Even if there isn't, I wouldn't be shocked if after spending time together throughout school, they eventually do court.

Anyone else see this as big news?? I mean we're talking an unaccredited school not Harvard, but just the fact that a Duggar child was able to leave the home pre-marriage is HUGE, no? Joseph could easily meet a girl at Crown College, since it's co-ed (that's where Erin went) and flirt with her and date her like a normal 20 yr old male without chaperones. Or he could meet a conservative Christian in Knoxville -- again dating like a normal guy who doesn't have to bring his sisters with him -- and end up settling down in TN rather than on the Duggar homestead. This sort of proves that a Duggar kid -- esp a male -- can get out if they choose to -- sure they have to go to a fundie approved and JB approved school and maybe be stuck studying something they don't love if the school doesn't offer regular majors, but it's still a path to freedom, your own friends, your own apartment/dorm room, and maybe finding your own mate.

I'm glad he's broadening her horizons from Nepali food to Chinese to hummus to Broadway to the State of the Union. But he is really just as lame as her and the rest of her fam in some ways -- according to his IG, on their eagle watching tour, he was so impressed with the fact that eagles mate for life and if one dies they do a mourning period and then find another mate and thus eagles are SUCH an awesome example. Sounds like something lame a Duggar would say. I know he married into the family, but is he required to behave like them!? Though maybe this is just who he is and it's this stuff that attracted Jill.

I thought the same thing. Why would Zach reach out to JD for support if JD had never been in any kind of courting relationship/conversation ever -- what would JD possibly have told him? In that case, Josh would've been a better choice. My bet is that JD asked a fundie dad for permission to court and permission was denied -- maybe bc the dad didn't want it or likely the daughter didn't want to even consider JD so it was easier to have dad say no. Or maybe JD got to the beginnings of a "get to know you" period and then the girl broke it off, which would lead him to have the same feelings as Zach. Though if that's the case, I'm shocked that Josh isn't "encouraging" JD -- or making fun of him knowing Josh's arrogance -- to get back on the horse bc he'll never "become" a man until he finds a girl and he'll fall way behind on the kid race.

I think they'd be thrilled to have the problem of needing a bigger bed to accommodate Erin. Chad's a pretty handy guy -- build a whole deck behind the house -- so I'm guessing it would be no problem to put together a queen size bed frame and then they'd hit 1800 Mattress or whatever is in the next big town to get a mattress for it. How rural are they -- does anyone know? Is it like 30 min from small town/city or 30 min from a place like Knoxville or Nashville? Can't really tell as it looks really rural -- esp when they were showing where trace had the car crash.

Did Jill announce her pregnancy as soon as she realized she was pregnant or after the first tri? Anyone find it curious that there's no Ben/Jessa announcement yet, or would they be "waiting" to announce? IIRC they've been married for 2-3 months -- I'd imagine it happens immediately at their ages with constant unprotected sex, no?

I think JD can definitely get married if he wants to. I doubt he'll be able to pick up a chick at Sonic like Zach bc you know -- he'd actually have to talk to her and not come across like a dork. But I definitely think there are fundie dads who'd be salivating at the idea of a Duggar son in law. It seems like there is a lot of poverty in the fundie circles, so I can see someone like Pa Keller thanking his lucky stars if a dork like JD who has a towing business, will inherit property from JB eventually, is a volunteer constable - who could maybe possibly turn that into a real gig (doubt it but they'd think that), and has a freaking private plane -- came calling. As for him being an ugly dork, I think most fundie parents would overlook that and would convince the bride to be that -- (I) looks and personality don't matter; (ii) she'll have a good life; and (iii) they've prayed about it and this is what God wants so she better live with it. Why would Tabitha Paine be interested in him? Simply bc she's 29 and MUST get married asap? I mean she knows that hot fundie boys exist -- her brother Chad is one of them. Though I suppose she can't hold out/her parents won't let her anymore given the age.

I don't know why but they strike me as the type of couple that pretty much talks about (i) the baby/pregnancy; or (ii) faith/church/religion. We obviously have no way of knowing this, but they just seem like that type of couple that will talk about their kid in painstaking detail or right now -- about the pregnancy -- and about their faith and how blessed they are and how Godly they will raise their child to be bc they have nothing else to talk about. Unless Jill has changed behind the scenes, I don't imagine she's watching any TV or the news or reading books besides the Bible; even if Derick is doing those things -- it's not like he can say -- hey did you hear about that protest in Paris today, it was over a million people -- because she'll have little idea. I doubt he talks to her about stuff that happened at work -- as in, so I did a coffee run with Jeff and he was telling me that he and his girlfriend . . . . Because I feel like her reaction to that will be "you went to coffee with Jeff -- that wasted 10 min that you could have been working and then you could have left work at 4:50 instead of 5 pm, I've been missing you soooo much." Or she'll find the stories from work too salacious -- if it's about unmarried people dating or living together or traveling together -- which is often what people talk about in their mid 20s to their work friends. I'm guessing besides those 2 topics they talk about the Duggar family a lot -- when Josh is visiting next; which sibling is building a go kart; who ran a phone through the dishwasher etc. I imagine Derick politely listens to that stuff, but how much can he possibly care about her 18 siblings??

I just don't get the bizarre manner in which that household revolves around JB and Michelle. Sure -- when you're little, you pretty eat what your parents eat and do the activities your parents do. Lots of kids grow up not eating certain foods because their parents never ate them. But by the time you're in your 20s living at home with dozens of siblings, does it even matter what your parents like/dislike? By the way Jill's been going various places with Derick, she seems to like food that isn't standard American fare. As a 20+ yr old woman living at home who liked Chinese or Mexican or whatever, couldn't she say -- girls night tonight, Jana, Jessa, Jinger and I are going out for Chinese -- see you in a few hours!? Granted with them they have childcare issues, but they could even rotate so a few girls went out each time to eat wherever they wanted to eat and the others stayed home with sibs. I mean are JB and Michelle so scary and restrictive that 25 yr old Jana can't say -- man I'm in the mood for Italian, I'm taking Joy . . . she really has to stay home and eat tator tot casserole because that's what her parents think everyone should eat!? And it's not like they don't have the money to be able to give the girls some cash for these outings . . . .

Nice to see a Jill and Derick date night at PF Changs. No big deal to most of us who grew up eating Chinese takeout, but I highly doubt Jill had much exposure to it in her parents' home. And I agree with the poster above who said that it seems like they're dating now. It must be so nice for them to go out to dinner alone and talk about whatever they please without having to keep a 7 yr old chaperone occupied or having to not get too personal about the conversation in front of a 25 yr old chaperone who gets what you're saying.