cereality

I don't know all the acronyms -- but does your post mean that in order to do missions with IMB both husband and wife have to be educated or theologically trained? I don't imagine that both spouses need such training merely so one spouse can get an M. Div.? Isn't accounting and M. Div a strange combo of degrees? Do most people who get an M. Div do something totally different undergrad and pursue a totally different career first before the M. Div or do most people have an undergrad theology degree. Do we think Derick is going to leave Walmart at some point to pursue more religiously oriented work? Could he become a preacher/minister with an M. Div or does that require totally different training? If he could preach, doesn't JB have the money to start up a church with his son in law as the full time preacher (like that show on TLC)? Anyone else find it mind blowing that Jill's baby daddy not only has a undergrad degree but is also working on a masters? I mean for a family that's so anti education, JB certainly saw the $ signs when a college educated boy came calling for his daughter. But then given Derick's college degree and his masters (which I imagine he started pursuing or was already applying for while in Nepal), I do find it a bit surprising that he fell for the Duggars. I mean he is obviously someone who believes in his faith for real -- not through coercion -- he probably believed in being a virgin before marriage, not going too far etc. So then he comes along to date Jill and is told -- sorry you can only Skype with her if Mama and Daddy are in the same room; you can only text with her if her parents and your mom are on the text; you are never to go anywhere alone; you are never to speak to each other on the phone alone; and forget the idea of kissing or hugging. Shouldn't he have been thinking -- I'm a Christian too, I would never go further than what my faith allows -- but if you have so little regard/trust of me, then maybe I don't need this!? He obviously went through a hard time in college with his dad passing and he didn't have him around to ask about dating etc., but he likely has friends and has seen relationships before -- he really lacks self esteem to go along everything JB said pre marriage and to have Jill stuck by his side 24-7 now because he can't say no. I wonder if he is "allowed' to go out with the guys ever? Could he even say to Jill -- a bunch of guys from college/work and I are going to hit happy hr on Thursday so I'll be 90 min late, or would he so fear upsetting his pregnant wife so much that he just wouldn't go?

I agree with you that there are a lot of things he couldn't possibly have known, but honestly I don't feel bad for him. He was so desperate to marry her that he totally bent to her family's will. I'm sorry but he didn't have to just Skype date her, come back to the U.S., get engaged immediately, get married ASAP and get pregnant on the wedding night. Despite the fact that she's on TV and he wanted JB as a prayer partner, Jill is not much of a catch and JB needed to marry off daughters. Derick easily could have said -- yes I'm interested but we need to date for real when I get back from Nepal; he could also have said after a few weeks of group texts/calls -- look, either you/your family trust me or not, I think I've been a gentlemen -- we need dates without chaperones, texts without parents etc. Guaranteed JB would have prayed about it and decided that for a college educated near fundie, he could bend his rules. Having some time alone with her would have let him realize how clingy she is and how she has no interests beyond her family -- and thus will cling to him. OR it would have made her change her ways and "grow up" a little because she would have realized that her man has had relationships before and wasn't looking for a high school girl to date. Honestly -- he would have had to respect their wishes re sleeping with her, but other than that -- I think he could have demanded normal dates, alone time, normal conversations, and even kissing or at least hugging -- and still kept her. Then he'd know what he was getting. Given that he didn't do all that and barely freaking knew her when they married, he should at least have insisted that they would not be making a honeymoon baby and then need 6 months-1 yr of just them. At that point they're married, JB be damned -- what's he going to do even if his Jilly Muffin tells him later that Derick insisted on condoms through the whole honeymoon?!

Very true. It's cute that father in law can give 19 yr old son in law a job, but the reality is that JB won't be running his businesses forever and will be handing down his properties, cell phone towers, car dealerships etc. to his sons -- in large part because his sons will need sources of income. So eventually it will go from Ben working for his father in law to Ben working for whichever businesses need a handyman/cleaning person at the time. Not sure how he'll feel taking orders from Josh or even Jackson a decade from now. He and Jessa are so young they may not have that kind of long term planning -- now is the time to establish some kind of path or career of his own, so that he isn't on Jackson's beckon call one day. Though I don't know -- the fact that Ben and Jessa have been so quiet leads me to believe that maybe they are cooking up something that they don't want anyone to know about. Maybe it's regarding Ben finishing an AA degree and then going to college for a BS, maybe they're planning to move to Hot Springs where Ben can learn a trade. Who knows -- but I hope they're thinking about it in addition to their baby planning because it is important.

While they're fundie through and through, it is nice to see a family that's close where the kids aren't scared of the parents. There is no way any Duggar daughter would dare say -- if you don't like my cooking, get in the kitchen and cook for yourself, otherwise sit down and shut your mouth -- they say Tori or Carlin did; the Duggars would be too scared of hard labor or the prayer closet or something. That's why Jinger's eye rolls and exaggerated faces were SUCH a big deal bc it was the only way a Duggar child could show they disagreed or were over it or whatever. Whereas a Bates kid can actually speak her mind.

No matter what they say, I feel like all these fundie families will be a bit smaller in the next generation mostly because they have seen the financial hardship of having so many kids to support. Chad is one of 10 kids. With families likely getting smaller in the next gen and with the issues they're having right now -- I bet he'd be happy with 2-4 kids. I realize 2-4 is a lot to think about for a couple that is struggling to conceive their first, BUT she's able to get pregnant and not stay pregnant. I have to imagine there are drugs that'll help keep her pregnant. Given that they seem miserable -- even Chad looked near tears in the interviews every time he said "it's not easy" and looked SO down at the baby shower -- and they're still young, I'm shocked that they don't stop trying for a while. It'll allow them a chance to get a physical work up, to mentally recover, to have "fun" with the -- we're not trying, if it happens it happens mentality. Who knows maybe that way they get pregnant and stay pregnant. But if they don't -- then after a yr or two of not thinking about it, they can go back to the dr., get whatever drugs may be needed and try. I completely understand why they're so sad, but I feel like they may be pressuring themselves as if they're 40 yrs old and saying -- we must conceive NOW because we don't have time left.

Is there any "exception" in Duggar/fundie world for "as many as God gave us"? What if Jill or any other fundie girl has one baby and realizes -- wow labor and delivery was really really painful and I really can't do it again or maybe I can do it one more time to give my kid a brother/sister but that's it. I know women who have hated every single second of giving birth even with an epidural and vowed they'd never do it again and their kid would be an only. If a fundie wife decides this then what -- can her headship "force" her to keep having more kids? I mean sure they can "pray about it" but if the wife just won't change her mind, then what -- would Ma and Pa Duggar be in her face telling her she's sinning or to "suck it up"? Of all people, I could see Derick being the most understanding about this because in his heart of hearts, he probably sees nothing wrong with 1-2 kids coming from a 2 kid family herself; and I could see him being scared of his wife being in pain and not forcing the issue. But how does it normally work where the headship has so much control over the wife and family and in this case the in-laws are so involved?

I agree -- if they had had sex before marriage, even once, there would have been much more physical "comfort" around each other at the wedding. Their wedding kiss at the altar wasn't terrible but awkward -- like they had never kissed before. Same with the kiss when they "ran" away from the cameras into that other room and when they were about to cut the cake. Same with when they saw each other at the first look -- they were leaning on each other in such an awkward way, something you wouldn't do if you had slept together/been physically intimate before because you'd be used to your bodies touching each other. And all of that awkwardness was gone when we saw the first pics after their honeymoon, where I believe Jill was sitting in Derick's lap. Do we know if Jill is currently seeing an OB or is she seeing a midwife -- and is it her own midwife group? I imagine she's doing what her mom usually does -- just don't know what it is. Do we think she'll have a home birth or a birth at her midwife's center, rather than a regular hospital? I've not had a baby yet, but wouldn't it be "weird" to have your ex-boss (the midwife she worked for) and other colleagues be checking you and delivering you? I feel like I'd never be able to be around that person again -- socially or professionally -- once they had seen everything. I realize this is what they do every day and it's no big deal to them to see your stuff or to see you screaming in labor, but how many of us socialize with our GYNs or see them in any other setting beyond the office?

It's possible that Gil and Kelly are preaching self sufficiency from the time the kids -- esp the boys -- are young. At the end of the day, they know they don't have TLC money like their friend JB, so even if they wanted to -- they can't just set up their older boys with a car lot or a towing business or decide that the income from one of the cell phone towers or rental properties goes to a certain son. Sure Gil may be able to take on 1-2 of the boys full time in the tree business, but even then it doesn't seem like he can divide that income 10 different ways, esp. since he has 16 of his own kids at home to support. Thus Gil and Kelly may be telling the boys from a young age that they need to figure out something to do so that they can get married and take on a wife and kids -- maybe for Lawson his own lawn business will be enough; for Zach that means working for the city/county; for Nathan that may mean the ministry. I'm guessing a few of the boys will end up at the same metals company where Chad works. I think that need for funds is also why they don't balk at their daughters figuring out something they want to do. Now -- they're cut from the same fundie cloth so I'm not thinking they'd be ok with a girl who wanted to go to med school or work in a construction business around men. But I think they are ok with their girls preparing for standard "female" jobs -- so Erin probably brings in some extra money for her household with piano lessons and Michaela is a nanny 5 days a week, which at least pays for her personal expenses which would be hard for Gil to cover all the time -- like flights to Michigan to see Brandon and inevitably the new clothes or haircut she wants when she is about to go on such trips.

I vaguely recall Kelly saying that when Zach's courtship broke up, he was devastated and turned to friends and John David was supportive. You'd think JD -- having watched a failed courtship, and then a regular relationship that wasn't an arranged courtship which has now resulted in a marriage and a baby -- would be thinking -- hmm, maybe I go to a restaurant/hang out spot and chat it up with some girls and see if I can get myself some phone numbers?! If it worked for Zach, then when not try it instead of waiting for a fundie dad to call my dad to offer up his daughter?!

Alyssa seems so "formal" when she speaks -- at least in the interview sessions; she wasn't as formal when she was interacting with the little kids and they were saying "you're not pregnant." John also seems super uncomfortable around that massive family. It's not shocking -- he hasn't spent much time with them; I imagine a lot of the long distance courting was by Skype and then when he came to Tn. he was probably taking her out maybe with a few chaperones and not necessarily spending tons of time sitting at home. It seemed like he had no idea what to do when the family was surrounding them during the pregnancy announcement and when the little kids were climbing all over him. The only part they seemed comfortable with was when they were posing for pics -- they seem into the selfie thing and looked like they are used to posing. I got the distinct sense that Alyssa is just fine being away from the family. I'm sure she misses them, but she also doesn't seem like she's so "miserable" about not being there for every family dinner. I thought Carlin/Tori were pretty honest throughout the show and they said -- Chad is like a brother now and Whitney is like another sister and John and Alyssa are too far away. I don't think John has really incorporated into the family like Chad has, and I think John and Alyssa seem fine with that. She told friends about her pregnancy before her family -- according to Carlin/Tory -- and of course her inlaws knew (though it's probably hard to hide it from people you see all the time). Being with John being a senator's son, I think they'll be more mainstream about certain things even if they believe in their fundie ways; I feel like they'll send their kids to school -- regular or Christian -- and may have a large family but not a mega family.

The ones who've married so far have jobs separate and apart from Gil, so they have outside paychecks -- not just what dad/dad in law can provide. I think Zach worked for the county/city for a while and now seems to be a cop/sheriff's office employee; I don't know if she actually works but Whitney is trained to do medical transcription which is something that can be done freelance from home so maybe that brings in a few extra dollars. Chad works for some kind of metals company/plant and Erin supplements that income by giving piano lessons. John works in his brothers/family's heating/air conditioning business. While none of those salaries may be huge, they are more than enough for a couple starting out to put a down payment on a small house or to rent a house or apartment -- which is what all 3 couples appear to be doing. I'm not sure what Lawson, Trace, and Nathan will end up doing, as they all seem to be involved with Gil's tree service and I'm not sure that that business can support Gil's own family plus 3 other families should the boys marry and want to remain in that business. It's possible that the Bates have talked with their kids -- esp with their sons -- about how they MUST be self sufficient before they marry because mom and dad can't create a job for them that provides a living wage for them and their wife and kids. It's not like the Duggars -- JB has enough TLC money that he has business interests, so it's "easy" for him to "create" a job for Josh at a car lot or start up a towing business for JD or even create a job for a son in law. Gil and family are more stretched given that they don't have a decade of TV income to fall back on.

Wait . . . Kelly has black sisters? How do we know this? Is Kelly adopted or are her sisters adopted? Do they live in Tn?

It's not clear when Alyssa announced the pregnancy, but it seemed like it may have been when they went back to the house after the baby shower (bc it seems like Kelly first saw Alyssa at the shower -- so it doesn't seem like they were at the house earlier); it also seemed that way because relatives were coming into the house after the announcement -- her grandparents etc. It is quite possible that Chad and Erin were emotionally spent after the baby shower and decided to go home for the evening or just for a while before reconvening at her parents' house or it's possible they just hadn't arrived at the house yet. Of course it's possible that they wanted to remain off camera and/or have their reactions edited out if they got teary. I honestly do believe that they aren't jealous of the couples having babies, it's just that they so desperately want one of their own that everytime someone else has one -- it opens up the hurt again. This is one of the huge huge downsides of being raised fundie -- you are raised to believe that as a woman, your worth comes from procreating and you only get married to have baby after baby immediately. If they were living in the real world, no one would bat an eye at a 22-26 yr old couple married last here who didn't have kids yet. Hell -- most people wouldn't even realize they were trying already and would figure they were just adjusting to married life for now. And outside of fundie world they wouldn't be around couples who were marrying and having kids immediately -- their peer group would include singles, boyfriend/girlfriends, and some just marrieds so it wouldn't be this constant "comparison." Also if she is "only" having trouble staying pregnant (not with getting pregnant - as demonstrated by the fact that she's been pregnant 3 times in one year), don't they have drugs for that? I wonder if they are going to fertility docs etc. bc who knows -- maybe there is a simple solution. They really really want a baby, and I hope they do whatever is medically necessary because they don't deserve to live with this kind of pain forever; there are couples who you can tell are more -- we want kids but if it doesn't happen, we'll survive. They are not like that -- maybe now they are giving up their dreams of having 8 or 10, but I don't think they can imagine their lives without 1 or 2 kids.

Kelly just seems more like a "real" mom in that she runs the household; sure they have the same view that the older girls help do the work -- part of that is probably fundie belief and part is probably just necessity of having so many people at home. Like a regular mom, she cares that people eat. For the baby shower, she was planning out a decent menu -- chicken salad, deli sandwiches, chips and dip, and a few other things. Even for the regular dinner at home, she said to the girls that she'd rather have too much food with leftovers than not enough. I'm not sure the Duggars put that much thought into their wedding menus, let alone a baby shower or a regular weekend dinner for the family. And when Trace had the accident, her reactions were very "real" -- insisting she come home, wondering if he was really ok or if Gil was just try to "protect" her etc. And Trace is a grown kid -- not sure how old but at least a teen. The reaction was very real compared to Michelle who has had LITTLE kids in accidents/incidents -- falling into the orchestra pit, getting stuck in the staircase, getting lost at Newark Airport -- and her reactions were laughing like a loon and/or handing the kid off to whichever sister mom he belonged to. The Bates seem like a genuinely tight family -- Whitney and Zach live by themselves and could just have been told about the accident later, but they were called right away, I believed Whitney when she said she was panicked, and Zach and Whitney went right over to the accident site rather than just saying -- oh he's ok, we'll see him at home or at the shower later.

I just watched the episode, and maybe it's just me but I have the distinct impression that Chad and Erin are not doing well. Sure Erin was incredibly gracious and said the right things, but you can see the hurt; Chad was teary each time he said "it isn't easy" and even at the shower itself Chad looked pretty down -- almost more than Erin who I guess was busier running around getting stuff done. It would honestly be easier if they didn't live 5 min down the road for the rest of the family. It must be hard from Gil and Kelly and Zach and Whitney's perspective too -- they all seem very caring and of course don't want to flaunt the pregnancy/new grandchild in front of Chad and Erin, but then they also don't want to not give Erin roles in the baby shower or not invite them to stuff because that'll make Chad and Erin feel like "wow -- I guess we're not as important because we can't make a baby right now." I think the only way Erin could step back is if Erin herself said to her mother and sisters -- I'm happy to stop by the shower for a little while but I'm not up for planning it. But I do believe her and Chad when they say they are happy for Zach and Whitney and want to make them feel special; I don't sense any jealousy just more of a "why not us." John does not look the least bit comfortable around the Bates family. I don't blame him, as he hasn't spent much time around them -- long distance courting and this baby shower was his first trip back since the wedding. But you could see when they were surrounded during the pregnancy announcement and then when he had kids climbing all over him, he had no clue what to do. I wonder if Alyssa is a little bit "relieved" to be further away. The sisters were so shocked that she "hid" the pregnancy for 12 weeks and told friends first and Alyssa herself said that she went shopping for the shirt with her sister in law so the Websters knew -- I wonder if she likes the relative "privacy" of not having her entire family in her business all the time.

Absent any problems, I think baby no. 1 is coming pretty soon for Ben and Jessa. Assuming they're not doing anything for protection, it's just a matter of time. But after that I could see them spacing things out -- whether that means NFP or using BC on the down low or whatever because I honestly don't see Jessa wanting to deal with labor and delivery over and over just for the chance to have more and more blessings she doesn't want. I feel like her fundie mom and sisters see it as a "wow look at all the pain and sacrifice I went through to bring a baby into the world, this is my purpose, I must do it again," I see Jessa thinking -- I'm not freaking doing that more than once again, that sucked. I could see her being the one who does things to prevent pregnancy on the DL so that she doesn't have to deal with all the physical aspects.

Well I think the Kellers themselves either live in trailers or a pre-fab home; only reason I remember this is they definitely have a trailer or two parked on their property and Josh said something about staying there early on in the relationship. I imagine that with that type of set up, he was super excited to see a daughter who has a 3 story home, multiple bathrooms, a real master bedroom etc. He probably does feel like "wow -- one of MY kids has this much" and probably things Josh is like Bill Gates for being able to provide those things for his daughter.

I agree with everyone -- a young fertile couple having sex on the regular without protection = baby eventually, no surprise there. But the thought of a 19-20 yr old father with no education makes me cringe. Don't get me wrong -- if he was in the military or had a skilled trade or had a secure spot in a family business (not odd jobs for JB but an actual skilled trades kind of business where he could learn a trade that would make him employable somewhere else), it would be different. I don't believe everyone has to have a 4 yr degree and frankly given the unemployment rate, I don't think certain degrees are even worth it. But I do think everyone needs to have a way to provide consistently before making babies. I'm sure they'd say - we have a TLC paycheck that's much better than all the other fundies out there. Sure but that kind of thing isn't consistent and doesn't last forever; all you need is the public losing interest (which is likely after 10+ seasons and eventually the whole wedding and baby thing will get old too) or another mega family coming on board and you're yesterday's news. It would be a much better/happier surprise in their case if they DON'T announce a pregnancy for a yr or 2 as that would be an indicator that they are using BC on the sly and there ain't nothing mama and daddy can do about it if that's what headship Ben wants. Though that's wishful thinking.

Maybe he's already gotten that clue, but what is he really supposed to do about it? He's the new son in law who frankly probably just wants some privacy in his own marriage and some opportunity to hang with his own family. I don't think he's going to put it on his agenda to rock the boat and tell the Duggars how they raise kids is all wrong. We don't know that he doesn't want Jana, Jinger, Joy, JD to come along on such outings -- if he says it, I'm sure JB would chuckle like a doofus and say "nah, when they have husbands and wives, this is just for us married folk" and his idea would be shoved aside -- so why is he going to take it upon himself to even open his mouth? It would be best for Derick and Jill if Derick was from someplace else and they settled down there and only visited the Duggars a few times a year; alas that will never happen -- though Derick can probably get an accounting job a few states away, I don't see him wanting to leave his mom and brother just to get away from the Duggars -- at least not unless/until his inlaws become more unbearable.

When was their first MC -- sometime near the spring? If they've had 3 MCs in like 9 months, why not just stop trying for a while in order to recover emotionally -- even if physical recovery isn't an issue? I mean I'm sure they want a baby really badly, but to be on this cycle has got to be so painful for them, esp as others in their circle are getting pregnant left and right. It would be so much to be easier to be able to say to family and friends "it was a hard year for us, we're recovering and when the time is right we'll have kids." I feel like they could take the time to go to fertility drs who may very well tell them nothing is specifically wrong and then they can try whenever they feel like it -- they have years ahead of them; rather than feeling like every cycle is a change to try.

I tend to agree. Jinger was very emotional when Jessa got married and in large part I think it was bc she knew she was being "left behind." Not only would Jessa be spending most of her time with Ben -- which happens in any marriage -- but any time she did spend with others would mostly be with other married couples and alas Jinger isn't married. It just speaks to JB and Michelle's douchy-ness that they treat their married kids different and better than the singles; what the 24 yr old unmarried ones don't ever want a dinner out without 4 yr olds clinging to them!? If the married couples want to go out by themselves, fine I guess. More appropriate would be all the "age-appropriate" siblings going out together -- so include JD, Jana, Jinger and Joy. But you can't "force" the married couples to take their siblings with them. BUT if JB and Michelle are going out with the older kids, they can absolutely "require" the inclusion of JD, Jinger, Jana, and Joy, so as to set the tone that ALL the kids are equally important whether they are married or single or will remain single their whole lives. But who are we kidding -- in that family, your stock only rises when you put a ring on it and make a baby.

In the limited amount of exposure we've had to the Bates, they just seem better raised than the Duggars. Gil and Kelly are hard core fundie, yet they seem to know and love each kid as an individual, not simply as Blessing No. 3 or 13. If Chad and Erin aren't trying right now or have had to go on BC and Gil and Kelly know (not that they have to share - but it may have come out at the hospital that the dr. told them not to try for a while or whatever), I imagine Gil and Kelly saying "take care of your health right now and do what the dr says, when it's your time you will have a bus load of kids." If it was Josh and Anna going through the same thing, I can imagine JB making some version of the "well pray about it" -- i.e. I don't agree with you and drs. don't know everything, pray about it until you get to the conclusion that baby making is the only option -- which would only make the couple feel that much worse about not only losing a pregnancy but also being looked down upon by their family. And then if the couple still didn't get down to business, then I'd see JB making his dorky "son you'll never be able to get to my record of 19 if you don't get busy. HAR HAR" comment. I just see Gil and Kelly treating each kid/couple as individuals. They probably realize that some of theirs may have a dozen kids of their own and some may only have 1 or 2 or be childless, and I don't see them ridiculing any of those things. Because their kids don't feel so judged or so "worried" about what their parents think, they act more like all other young adults. I'm sure Erin was able to be gracious with Whitney's shower because while I'm sure she's sad for herself, she knows she's loved by Chad and her parents and her mom isn't thinking any less of her. When asked by Nightline if she'd want 19 kids, Alyssa was very honest in saying she could not handle that many and couldn't see having more than 6 or 8. No Duggar offspring would feel comfortable being so honest bc of Mama and Daddy's wrath and would have to resort to "whatever God gives us."

I don't know why but the Bates just strike me as a bit more "reasonable" than the Duggars, even though they all have the same beliefs. They talk openly about how chemistry is important when courting and in a marriage, so I highly doubt they are abstaining -- or even able to abstain -- during the first year of marriage after having waited forever for sex. I wouldn't be shocked if they're using some BC or at least rhythm if doctors have told them to not get pregnant for a certain amount of time. I don't know why but Chad strikes me as the "protective" type, and as the headship I can see him being ok with BC or even insisting on it if it was a matter of Erin's health. Though the slippery slope with BC is that they may start using it and liking the freedom and not want to go off of it right away or want to go off to get pregnant and go back on for a while to ensure some time between pregnancies; though at that point they may be reminded that that's not what God/Gothard wants and once the medical need is passed, it's time to put it back in God's hands again.

I haven't seen the episode, but I tend to check Chad's blog and instagram from time to time and I'm happy to see that it looks like they're doing well. Now of course social media isn't always the best representation bc people only post happy pics, but it looks like they're getting out and doing stuff together, rather than just sitting in church 24-7 praying for a child. Erin is still teaching music lessons, and in the last year it looks like they've taken several trips by themselves to the beach, mountains, etc. I'm sure they'd rather just have a baby just like Zach and Alyssa, but since that hasn't happened for them yet, I'm hopeful that maybe they are really believing "when God wills" instead of other fundies who say that but expect a child 9 months after marriage. Reality is they are so young -- I mean Erin can't be more than 22-23 max since she graduated after she married Chad; that gives them years to try for a child, and sure -- if it takes them longer to have the first or longer between kids, they may not end up with 8 or 15 or whatever, but they still have many chances to have a child and likely even 3 or 4 kids. Somehow Gill and Kelly seem more "genuine" to me, even though we know they have the same beliefs as the Duggars. I see that family caring more about each other, and I'm hopeful that regardless of it all -- Gil and Kelly just want to see Chad and Erin happy. I wouldn't be surprised if they are really preaching "it'll happen when it happens, in the meantime go enjoy yourselves" rather than giving helpful "tips" or suggesting doctors or treatments or whatever. I feel like if it was the Duggars, JB would be telling Derick to "get on it and get it done," whereas I can see Gil telling Chad "so what -- you'll have one next yr or 2 yrs from now or whenever, it's not a contest with Zach or John Webster."

Anyone watch the Christmas video they put on YouTube? They showed Jana setting at that desk just inside the side entrance of the house -- it's set up in such a way as to give it the vibe of a cubicle or a private office, but it looked so cramped in there and the Jana popped up from behind the desk. With a house so large, why exactly do they need a desk/filing cabinets and whatever that other furniture was to be cramped into an area which would be a mudroom/tiny lobby entrance in most other houses. Jana said she was sending out Christmas cards -- I'm assuming to their admirers who send them gifts etc. and I'm guessing maybe also to the other fundie families they see on occasion like the Bates, Paines, and now the Kellers, Dillards, Seewalds etc. Does anyone know if this is another one of Jana's tasks? I could see how it makes sense to give it to one of the older girls -- better handwriting and they'd write something appropriate, whereas the boys in that house cannot be trusted with such things. But doesn't Jana do enough re the raising of the 15 siblings still at home that now Christmas cards are her jurisdiction too??