cereality

So apparently Audrey and Jeremy are married according to People. Honestly they seem made for each other -- kind of vapid and dumb but pretty. From the shows it seemed like Jeremy stayed in Santa Barbara even after getting his for-profit college degree; they made comments about how they don't see each other often and when they do, it's all about wedding planning. Any idea where they're planning on living or how they'll support themselves? I'm guessing Jeremy fancies himself a photographer and while it may not be a National Geographic level job, I guess he'll set up a website and jump into the wedding and/or senior portrait scene. Though Ca. is expensive -- are they planning on living in Or. instead -- Jeremy was making comments about his kids growing up on the farm. My first thought when I saw the previews that Zach was going to propose to Tory was -- he's doing it to keep up with Jeremy. They are twins, and he does always try to keep up when they go through big milestones. I remember all the "advice" Jeremy was giving him when he went away to college and Zach didn't; I can see Jeremy advising him on relationships as well. Of all the kids I can see Zach working on the farm and then ultimately taking it over. While Jeremy has been away for the last 3-4 yrs, Zach's been in town and has been working pumpkin season as well as the crazy projects that come up. Alternatively I can see him turning his part time soccer gig into a full time job. Not suggesting that it's the best job in the world, but there are plenty of people who raise families while working as a manager of a retail/service store -- I can see him doing that. Plus unlike Audrey, Tori is a teacher -- there was some talk a few yrs ago about her having a job kind of far away. I feel like between a teacher and a retail manager with some TLC income here and there, they'd do fine. It seems like Tori is sensible, and I can see Zach "stepping up" to take care of her and provide her a decent life; even when he was young, he didn't respect Matt because Amy was working and doing a lot more while Matt was coming up with grand plans for the farm. I can see how he wouldn't want that for his wife. Jeremy and Audrey honestly seem too vain and cocky to plan or work hard for anything.

I don't disagree that Ben is an idiot who is in this for sex and fame. So guess what -- JB could have said NO to the courtship. This was very much of a suitor approaches my daddy, daddy checks him and the family out and approves/disapproves the courtship -- scenario. It's not like a normal family where she met him at her school or work or match.com, and her family had to deal. If JB thinks he is so dumb and horny, then say no to the courtship. But if you have decided that Ben is good enough to court, then you should treat him with some respect when he is around your family -- even if it ultimately does not work out. That doesn't mean you have to be buddy-buddy -- because you are still "checking him out." But that means treating him the way you'd treat any guest in your home -- i.e. maybe start with NOT making him scrub the toilets.

Josh and Anna seem happy on their own in DC. The vibe seemed so relaxed from them -- probably because they aren't getting calls from JB saying "come over now" or "all 22 of us are dropping by in an hr" or "Josh go work on x for my properties." I think it's probably been great for their marriage and for their kids to get away from Arkansas. He's making enough money (or being comped) that they do go back a lot but even spending a week back there a month means they get 3 weeks on their own in DC. And as homogenous as their world is -- I hate to say it -- but I was thrilled when I saw his kids interacting with Steve, a big AA man. When kids are raised so "closed off" from the world, you always wonder what it'll do to them, though I guess little kids gravitate towards anyone who is nice and shows them attention no matter the race/gender etc. so I'm glad his kids get some of that.

Josh and JB would have pitched a fit if Josh had to do anything for the Kellers other than pledge to the dad that he had prayed about marriage and was committed to having kid after kid. Frankly even any legit questioning about Josh's car lot would not have been taken kindly -- like if Anna's dad had asked to see the books or wanted to come see the business to make sure it was a legit business -- I suspect Josh and JB would have been totally insulted and moved on fast. I can get why Pa Seewald is calling out JB. I thought it was a bit much if it was just because JB was making him wait until he could maybe provide for her. But living on JB's property and cleaning toilets to prove your worth as a son in law -- WTF!? And where exactly were those bathrooms? I know JB owns a bunch of commercial properties and warehouses, but if that's what the bathrooms look like -- clearly those properties haven't been rented in years. But if they're running a business (property rental) and that business requires providing services like cleaning -- wouldn't they have those big carts that janitors have, along with huge gloves etc. rather than making their future son in law scrub that bathroom with his bare hands?? I felt bad for Ben when he said he used to be a germophobe and asked his mom for a biohazard suit for when he had to clean a bathroom -- presumably one in his home that gets cleaned every week or so and thus doesn't look like that one. I feel like one of them -- either JB/Michelle or Ben or Jessa made a comment about where they'll live after marriage. I hope they high tail it back to Hot Springs where he resumes his office job, community college or whatever else he'll do to make ends meet, and I hope Jessa supports that -- i.e. I will live in a studio apartment with you working 2 jobs, if it means that we get away from my parents. I hope she doesn't convince him to stay on her parents' property to be treated like the loser son in law forever. Honestly if I was Ma and Pa Seewald and I cared one bit about my son I'd be leaning HARD on him to cancel (or "put off") the wedding having seen last night's episode. They have to have some huge doubts about how he's being treated -- if they had any notion of "JB will set him up with a career just like Josh" -- they can put that to rest. Josh is their son and he'll be given the opportunities that get him to DC, while Ben will be relegated to whatever manual labor JB and JD can dig up and he had better be grateful for it. If he refuses to leave, if I was his parents I'd at least make him be very clear with Jessa that the day (or hour) after marriage, they are out of there and to Hot Springs -- be it an apartment or his childhood bedroom until he can afford an apartment.

Honestly I hope the Duggars get some kind of citation from the city/county for using the warehouse as a residence. There are requirements for what can be deemed a bedroom when you are undertaking construction -- I'm pretty sure a metal warehouse with no air conditioning and limited air circulation through those panels which have not been shut with glass -- does not meet the requirements for a bedroom. I know in NYC, a room can only been deemed a bedroom if it has an outside facing window of some kind. I think that's happened before to the Roloffs -- they proudly aired something on TV only to be shut down and fined by their city/county as all the local officials were watching this local "celebrity" family; at least whatever they were doing was not a residence but some kind of zoning thing related to their farm.

JB certainly is confident that no man could EVER walk away from a Duggar daughter, no matter what the family puts him through. Every couple seasons on the Bachelor you have a "couple" that ends up together, then gets a few months to hang out alone before the show airs and without cameras around and truly finds out if they are compatible or not, they stay together through that, and THEN when the show airs -- they break up or have problems as they see what their partner did with other contestants or what their partner said about them in interviews etc. I realize that breaking up doesn't really happen in the fundie world, but the wedding is still a good 6 weeks away. Ben had to sit through an airing of yesterday's episode undoubtedly with 19 people laughing at him. His own parents watched and are presumably pissed and may be calling saying -- I don't know if this is such a great idea. A few more episodes air and isn't it possible that Ben and/or his family pull the plug and say "sorry to break up weeks before the wedding but better now than 6 weeks or a yr from now?!" If this is how they treat him now, does he expect they'll respect him more when he is living in their house and relying on them solely for financial support?? Honestly I say it every week but I don't see the desperation for marrying Jessa. She's fine but so are a million other girls at community college who would get with him just bc he's hot. And in NW Arkansas they are likely conservative enough that they would date and marry quickly, so it's not like he'd have to date for 5 more yrs; he could be married to a different girl by next spring if he REALLY wanted. And I don't get the emphasis on manual labor. It's great that JD is so handy -- good for him. But Josh and Derick are clearly not -- evidenced by the fact that they have chosen office jobs. Why is it ok for them and yet not for Ben -- who was an office assistant before this whole mess of a job. I don't think anyone asked Josh or Derick to install a window or a fence or clean a toilet before agreeing to give their daughter's hand in marriage and yet for Ben those hurdles are required??

That's certainly a possibility -- that dr's. have told Anna/Josh to wait after 3 quick pregnancies -- however if that's the case, it's definitely something that needs to be kept on the DL from his family. Their view is -- God will protect you no matter what, so go ahead and get pregnant and roll the dice; in some ways they don't "believe" what drs' say because of their belief in God. Michelle trying for babies after Josie and Jubilee kind of proves that. If they were to say to his family -- maybe we'll have more but we're waiting for Anna's blood work to get back to pre pregnancy levels and that's taking time -- I guarantee Michelle and JB would pooh-pooh that fancy DC healthcare and say "what -- we had a child per yr and did fine, y'all are a bunch of sissies."

If Jed is deemed the sissy boy -- then in JB's mind, he's in the same category as Josiah. JB and Michelle don't seem to do well with book-learnin' kinds of boys; they are better with the manual labor kinds of boys. Is he also the one who had an interest in video/cameras etc? I seem to remember one of the twins sticking an iphone through a dishwasher a few years ago to see what they could record. Dumb but shows some curiosity. Him and Josiah would likely both love to go to college because they seem like they WANT to learn, as opposed to the others who treat school as an obligation.

How old are James and Jason? What is known about them -- anything about their likes/dislikes, what they want to do when they grow up etc? Honestly I haven't paid attention to anyone younger than Josiah. Was James in Jill's buddy group? It seems like Derick will be a good influence on him -- and any others than hang around them. There was an IG pic of Derick giving James a trumpet lesson, and he was sitting with them at the Razorback game as well. It may broaden his horizons just a bit to have Derick as a brother in law -- nothing earth shattering but who knows maybe he gets to try new foods at their house or maybe Derick talked to him about what the college days were like as Pistol Pete or wandered around U. of A with him before the game. All of these things will give the younger ones a glimpse of life outside the compound in a way that the older ones didn't have -- it may give them some motivation and hope that they can find a way to pursue some of these other things. Jason (I think -- the one w Jessa) seemed sweet. I loved him saying that he had faith that Jessa would shoot better than Ben because she's his sister; nice to see him not taking the -- of course a girl can't shoot as well as a boy -- approach. Maybe he has some realization that his bro in law is a dud.

Re earlier posts re how many kids Josh and Anna want. Somehow I view Josh and Anna as the type who both don't want too many more, but won't talk to each other about it because it's un-Godly not to want more in their culture. Josh has openly said that 2-3 would be fine if that's what God wills; he said that right when they were getting married but of course had to keep up the usual "as many as God gives us" line that is expected or else Anna's father wouldn't have handed her over. Anna OTOH I think wanted 6-10 kids and even said it after they had Mac, but now I'm thinking with 3 kids under 5, being alone in DC without a gaggle of sister in laws who can help at a moment's notice, not being able to drop off the kids at the Duggar home for free babysitting, and not being able to pop by the car lot to have Josh help for a few hours a day -- she may be re-thinking just how hard it'll be to have 3 more little ones right now. I do think she wants more, but they may only have 1-2 more and be done, or they could be one of those families that has 3, takes a break, has 2-3 more when the first three are 8-10 years old. In the meantime, if she isn't talking about getting pregnant, I bet Josh is counting his lucky stars and not saying a word about it either. People say that it's hard to maintain a relationship in the bedroom when you have little kids -- you affirmatively have to try to schedule time; I bet they're both just not scheduling time. I also think Josh likes life in DC (Anna too) -- esp being out from under his father's thumb. Sure he only got the job because of his name and he's back in Arkansas all the time, but at the end of the day -- he goes to his parents' knowing he'll be back in his own home in a week or so. It's possible Josh is feeling financial pressure when he thinks of the future. He isn't well educated but I think he's savvier than any of the other boys. He may realize -- this job/paycheck won't last forever, and if we want to stay in DC I need to save up/keep my eyes open for something that pays similarly or else there's a car lot with my name on it. With that in mind, he may be thinking that it'll be easier to stick around DC financially with just 3 to provide for, rather than 6 or 8 or whatever.

Looks like Derick and Jill took in the Arkansas college football game with his brother and one of the younger Duggar boys -- can't tell which one. It's good that they're out on weekends doing their own thing. It would be better if they could do that alone or with his family without ALWAYS having to involve one of the Duggar siblings.

I wonder if Ben is expected to spend his non-sleeping and non-working hours at the TTH, where a herd of kids can keep an eye on him and Jessa and possibly under the guise of the family getting to know him better. Otherwise, how hard is it for Jessa to sneak out of the TTH for hours at a time? I imagine Jana and the other older girls are doing housework or child rearing all day, the older boys are off "working" at JB's odd jobs, and the howlers are doing who knows where. With that many people, who would notice if one was missing for 45 min? She could walk/run up to the warehouse (presuming the path to the warehouse isn't in plain view of the kitchen or something) and sneak in 45 min with her boyfriend -- no need to save the first kiss or anything else for the wedding day. How do these families raise kids so that they are STILL afraid of the parents at age 19?? I get the fear as a child -- probably physical punishment. But as a 19 yr old, it seems like Ben is living with the Duggars because his dad and JB came to an agreement ahead of time and railroaded him with it in an effort to "move the courtship along" (even though it was perfectly fine for Josh and Anna to be many states apart and Jill and Derrick to be international). Okay -- so he's willing to give it a try and goes along, fine. When he got to his 110 degree "guest house" in the warehouse and spent a few days moving the lawn and sitting around awkwardly in the Duggar house in his time "off" with Jessa and a dozen chaperones, I don't understand a parent-child relationship where the 19 yr old "child" wouldn't call home and say -- look I tried it out, and while this girl is fine, this family owns me and will continue to own me for years to come so I'm getting out now and coming home. I don't see too many parents objecting; I mean if a kid was quitting college or something, parents may try to talk him out of it but even then a 19 yr old is an adult and doesn't really need "permission." I don't see why Ben has to deal just because both dads want him to. I realize he has nothing to his name -- but this should be all the more incentive for him to find some resolve to make something of himself -- whether a college grad; an officer worker; an insurance agent; or a construction worker or even a day laborer -- anything so he won't have to rely on JB for food and shelter and thus be pushed around for the rest of his life. AND he and Jessa don't seem in love enough where this is justifiable. I think he just really wants sex, and I'm honestly not even sure what she wants. When sex isn't so new and shiny anymore, then what -- he is stuck with this arrangement for life, and these aren't exactly open minded people who will be open to him finding a path that works for him. It's not like he will be able to say to JB 2 yrs from now that he has decided to take college classes or whatever because JB will surely veto it if it doesn't fit what he wants.

Did anyone catch the kid (don't remember which one) who in his Mother's Day greeting said something like -- "can't wait for no. 20, just kidding." Way to hit Michelle where it hurts. All of the MD greetings were forced, as evidenced by the kid (maybe Hannie) who said something like -- she gets us Christmas and birthday presents -- which isn't exactly going out of the way, as most families acknowledge those two days for their kids (if they celebrate Christmas). But that kid took the cake.

Why exactly is Ben SO desperate to marry Jessa? I get that he's a horny 19 yr old boy and he's pretty close to sex, but if he were to break it off -- he could get into another fundie courtship and be married in another 3-6 months. I think that's worth it to avoid being owned by JB all his life. Alternatively he could just not marry and date other conservative Christians -- I get that he wouldn't get to have sex, but I think they could still hold hands, hug, kiss etc. so maybe he wouldn't be as desperate. He's 19 and 19 yr old boys tends to be opinionated about what they don't want or won't do. He could have put his foot down about living in JB's house or living in that room and Jessa could have blamed it on "he's his own man, this is what he wants to do."

(1) Do Ben and Jessa want to get married? There are moments where I can see a connection in a -- self important, fame whoring, I have someone to take selfies with -- kind of way, like in the TH when they're talking about how the next step is a rock with a piece of metal. But when JB offers him a place to stay, Ben looks to have ZERO interest and says the usual fundie line to delay things -- "we should pray about it." Instead of his dad picking up that clue or even waiting to talk to Ben alone to see what he wants, he announces in front of everyone who it would be a great experience. And then in the TH the mom talks about how much the Duggars love Ben. Ben almost seems like he isn't ready to leave home because he even made a statement how it was his first time moving away. (2) Given their enormous home, they couldn't offer the kid anything better than a "guest house" which is a room upstairs in a warehouse that has no external windows and isn't air conditioned -- in the Arkansas heat? Even if you hate the kid, he doesn't deserve that. Any chance JB is looking for a way to drive Ben off -- so it doesn't have to be "the Duggars broke the courtship," but rather than Ben backed out?? Though I guess it didn't work since they're engaged IRL. (3) Still like Derrick and you can see how much pain he is in and how worried he is about his mom. You could see it just in his eyes when he had the mask on at the hospital. I agree that requiring a chaperone in the hospital was ridiculous -- he was there with his mom and stepdad, what do the Duggars think will happen -- sex on the hospital room floor?? Do they think Derrick's mom and step dad will "encourage" the couple to kiss? I mean I can see that kind of fooling around with certain kind of parents -- you know when they're NOT sick in the hospital in isolation. (4) Why was it SO important that the Dillards and the Seewalds would be meeting for the first time at brunch? Who cares -- I can see why the first meeting of two families marrying each other matters, but the Dillards will be no relation to the Seewalds. (5) Derrick's bro does not seem happy/thrilled about this whole thing. Now chances are he too is also really stressed about his mom, but I wonder if he's wondering why the hell his bro is jumping into the craziness when he can date and marry like a regular guy. I wonder what his girlfriend Chelsea's deal is -- I don't suppose she's fundie? (6) Josh, Anna, Josiah, Jana, and Joy Anna seemed PISSED that Jill and Derrick are getting the mansion. Can't say I blame them -- they are the ones who are old enough to understand that housing is a big part of a budget and here Jill gets a HUGE house for free. (7) Jana seems sad overall; it was nothing she said but just the affect.

Do the Duggars believe in "well woman" exams before marriage? I know LDS families typically do this and the woman uses that opportunity to discuss BC options (even rhythm). I don't see that being the case with the Duggars, since Jessa would have to bring a sister-chaperone so any discussion with the OB-GYN or any run to pick up BC wouldn't be private; I would see Jessa or maybe even Jinger keeping such a secret but not Jill. If she REALLY doesn't kids for a while -- why not schedule the wedding for a relatively non-fertile time to increase the likelihood that there won't be a honeymoon baby. Then when she returns from the honeymoon, she can be out and about alone -- allowing her the option of going to a dr. and getting BC and taking it on the sly. She may have to push off Ben for a few nights/week until she gets an appointment and everything takes effect, but let's be honest she will be pushing him off a lot. They travel a lot though on the big old bus -- press tours, random trips to visit the Bates or homeschool conferences. They may want gift cards to restaurants they've seen/visited on the road in an effort to get some date nights away from the bus or the 'all you can eat pizza buffets' they'll otherwise be visiting with JB and the herd of siblings.

I honestly think people probably also take the Bates family more "seriously" -- meaning they are likely seen as a family that is living their testimony. The Duggars are on TV, making money from books, on book tours etc. and that probably scares a lot of the decent fundie suitors off. If they want to live according to what they believe, they probably don't want to consider marrying into a family that's on TV and may expect them to participate in the TV empire. They may also just not like how "in your face" JB and Michelle are; the Bates seem like they are probably more reasonable as inlaws. Of their married daughters so far, only Chad seems like he'll be living in town for a while or forever -- I don't see Gil trying to control Chad; he has his own job and seems to spend his weekends with his wife doing whatever they please. I'm not sure if the Duggars are that easy going as in laws. Maybe with Derick because he had his own life prior to Jill and may not be showing up every weekend to dance to JB's tune, but they practically own Ben.

If the whole family builds and gives a house to Ben and Jessa -- esp one as large as the parents' home -- doesn't JB then "owe" such a home to each of his kids? I get that parents can give whatever they want to whichever child, but if Derick and Jill eventually have to buy their own home or Jana and her future husband end up living in a cottage like Erin and Chad -- won't that mean that Ben and Jessa get rewarded for being lazy, uneducated, and unmotivated?

I wonder if Jessa is disappointed but stuck. When they first got together my impression was that she wanted to court anyone just to be the first to marry and the first to get off the compound. Jill beat her to the altar and given Ben's dependence on JB for work, they're not getting off the compound anytime soon. As conceited as she seems to be, she may be noticing that there are other fish in the sea -- guys like Derrick who can provide the life she desires -- but a year long courtship in that world is practically a life commitment and she or JB may have insisted on an engagement just to save face and now she's stuck with this kid living under her parents' thumb for life.

In this article Jill says Jana and JD are likely the next ones to court and marry. Maybe Jana is in a get to know you phase with someone.

If I were Jana, I'd be calling cousin Amy and honestly saying -- look who can you introduce me to that is a conservative Christian but will play along with the fundie courtship thing for my parents' sake so that I can get out of there and once I'm out, I'll be conservative Christian just like him. Amy is social and always seems to have boyfriends and frankly is outgoing enough that she would LOVE to set up her cousin, gossip about dating with her, go on double dates etc; the only reason that she likely hasn't gotten involved is because she probably thinks all her cousins want the fundie arranged marriage and she doesn't want to over step her bounds. I honestly thought life was going to get easier for Jana as her sisters were married off; even if she's stuck on the homestead for a while -- with Josh, Jessa, and Jill married -- she "only" has 15 kids to look after in terms of coordinating meals, laundry, school etc. But if JB and Michelle are starting the trend of -- we'll let our daughters marry guys who are basically uneducated children and it's no problem because we can create a job for them and they can start in the guesthouse and then we'll put a small house/trailer for them on our land -- that means Jana is stuck with a whole new generation of babies to raise. Frankly it looks pretty bad to let a son in law do this because it demonstrates to the world that he CANNOT provide. If a son in law can do this. surely they'll be less strict about their sons leaving and cleaving as well. And it's not like Ben and Jessa have enough sense to say -- ok this is our starter home, let's buckle down with school or work, make money, move out and THEN start a family. It would be hard to hold off on a baby without birth control, but it can be done even for newlyweds -- using rhythm or being intimate without going "all the way" every time. Nope -- I'm predicting a baby announcement by Christmas time. I feel like the responsibility falls on Jana and Joy Anna these days -- I'm not clear on how much Jinger actually does.

Why don't the Duggars see that it's a bad sign that their future son in law is moving in with this already? This is just the beginning of the road of JB providing housing and income for Ben and Jessa. I don't understand why it's SO difficult for him to find a job on his own? Chad Paine moved to Erin's town before they got married, but Chad neither lived with the Bates nor worked for the tree service; I believe he picked up a job (through a Bates friend) at a metals company. JB knows everyone in their small town -- surely he could get someone to hire his future son in law for some no-skills required type of manual work? I kind of understand Pa Seewalds' frustration now. He said things in his blog about a girl's family being too controlling or making you jump through too many hoops. He may think it's a bit too much to dangle a guesthouse, which of course allows him time with his girlfriend all day, every day, as well as a "job" in front of his horny 19 yr old because now -- no matter what his own mom and dad say -- this kid will never figure it out on his own because he knows the Duggars will provide. All the teens are so full of $hit. I LOVE Ben talking about how he was so excited for a job opportunity allowing him to move to the area; um -- your future father in law made up a job for you. Do you REALLY believe that he desperately needs your help with construction or lawn mowing when he has 10 strapping sons of his own -- at least 5 of whom are of age to take care of those jobs?? And does anyone need marriage or courting advice from the wise Jill and Derick -- despite their 2 full months of experience?? I LOVE Joy Anna -- loved how she said they will start charging $5/hour to chaperone so they'll make money or maybe the relationship will fizzle -- and Jana kind of nodded in agreement. Love Joy Anna -- she is smart enough that she sees this for the $hitshow that it is.

Watching the marathon -- the episode with the auction -- Michelle seems like a cartoon. I think she has gone so far overboard on the "women must sound sweet in order to seem feminine" that she sounds unbelievable. Extreme sing-song voices and "awws" when talking about dollar figures?? No wonder they believe that a woman can't be a business-person -- I mean can you imagine anyone at any Fortune 500 taking you seriously in any capacity if you sing the numbers to them in a budget meeting?

It annoys and amazes me how much the older Duggar kids don't ever stand up to their parents. I don't even mean for the big things like college or career or courting -- because that kind of disobedience would get them sent to the prayer closet and/or ALERT. But I'm shocked that they don't whine for little things like TV, books etc. Maybe that's just how kids become when you beat the will out of them? But we all know how persistent teens can be when they want something. I think we've seen social media pics of some of the kids at Razorback games. You'd think Josiah or Joseph would come home from that and beg his parents for a TV. When they say no -- it's defrauding -- you'd think he'd try every argument in the book --- we could block everything but ESPN, games aren't defrauding; you could watch with us and make us turn it off if you thought it was inappropriate; but Josh and Anna have a TV don't you think they're good Christians -- and on and on. I feel like they could win on a few things as their parents are pretty much checked out -- if they only tried. Is this just a lack of critical thinking skills? Just giving up on life?

If Jill's birth ends up on camera, it is entirely Jill's doing and no one else's -- I'm not sure that I'll feel bad for her like I did for Anna. Anna is a sister in law who married the eldest son. Whatever Josh and JB and Michelle said went. She was a naïve fundie girl who married young and likely had probably heard "birth is hard but God will take care of you." If she had never been to a birth before, or not paid close attention to any home birth her mom may have had -- she may have had zero idea what it would really be like -- the pain, what it feels like to be completely out there for everyone to see, where doctors/nurses hands go etc. It's not like she had the ability to watch a birthing video or even a TLC program on birth. If she expressed any fears -- which most first time moms do -- I'm sure her mother in law and/or mom just provided the religious perspective and downplayed the whole thing and then Josh strong armed her into birthing on camera. These fundie girls are a bit overwhelmed because of how sheltered they are and the lack of info they have, and then JB and Michelle just take advantage of it to make a TV show. There was an early pregnancy appointment for Anna where the dr. said they had to do a transvag ultrasound. Anna had a look of horror on her face -- as I'm sure many women have when they have to do certain ob-gyn procedures for the first time. The camera was up in her face to record that look of horror and even the dr. looked like she felt bad and patted her on the shoulder and said it was not that bad. With Jill -- she has more idea than anyone -- including her mom -- of what birth is really like. She has attended a LOT of them even in the short 6 months to 1 yr she's trained. She knows the pain, awkwardness, nervousness and everything. She can easily say -- sorry Pops, I know it's good for TV ratings but no way can I do that in front of anyone besides Derick. What exactly would he do? He can't strong arm Derick who isn't his son, doesn't rely on TLC income, and isn't the one giving birth; if his daughter says no, JB is kind of stuck to find other programming.