kitticup

I would love it if because of his rejecting the darkness and sacrificing himself to end it, that Hook is immune to Dark One's Magic and Excalibur. I think that would be fun twist. I still want to see some really negative side affects fir Rumole taking in all that darkness.

It took me awhile to process this episode. This episode is like this whole arc. There was so much potential and the acting was stellar, but the plot holes were just too much for me. So much so that I could never fully buy into the arc or this episode. I probably write more about the overall plot holes in the thread for all seasons and focus on this episode only in this post. First I liked the baby killian flashback. It was one of my head cannons that killian was forced into servitude. This works because hook seemed so offended when Claude called him a slave way back in season 2. Hook was also quick to tell Zelena he was no one's toy. Hook always believed in individual choice, whether it was Milah's choosing a new life or Emma choosing him or crushing a heart. It might also explain hook's need to lash out when he is hurt or betrayed. Never being able to have choice and express anger to your master has probably built up in him and now that he has control and can express himself he goes overboard. It gives new insight to his betrayal of Bae in Neverland. He gave Bae better deal than he himself got and Bae threw it in his face. I am not saying hook was right to behave as he did. For the record, he was not. Regina's line about destroying a family likely would call to mind the hurt Bae felt upon learning his mother abandoned him. However, his need to punish Emma was way over the top and didn't make sense nor did his inability to fight the darkness until the last minute. This episode was better than last week's which totally assassinated hook's character. At least hook chose to do the right thing in the end. He didn't chose to be a better man for Emma; he choose to be the man he wanted to be for himself. He knew that the regret would be the only thing he revenge would give him, not satisfaction or peace. I liked the actor playing papa hook. When papa hook realized that the pirate might be Killian, his reaction went from disbelief/shock, not wanting to deal with an ugly past to a flicker of disappointment at who Killian had become, followed by a realization that he was big reason for how his son turned out, and finally acceptance of his son and a desire to make things right. What didn't work was shoehorning the Regina hook flashback into the timeline. The other thing that did not work was Rumple being able to transfer all the darkness back into himself. Of all the things in the arc, making Rumple a hero, win a duel to get Excalibur, and conveniently have a potion that would be able to enchant one of the most powerful magical relics required too much suspension of belief. I also don't like that rumple is being rewarded for his duplicity. I am tired of the wonky morality of this show. I sincerely hope there are very negative side effects to Rumple for having so much darkness. Emma's light magic better be stronger than anything rumple has. It would have worked better if hook wanted to be in charge of all the dark ones given his hatred of being under other's control, then have Nimue whispering sweet nothings to rumple to take the mantle from hook because he wanted to be the top dog. Rumple's status as a former dark one would enable him to see Nimue. She could remind him that without his power he would be at the mercy of a town who hates him. Maybe even have smelled vandalize his shop. JMO did an excellent job acting, but please never use the dark swan voice again. Also I like Zelena in small doses. Lon live pistachio.

I would think Zelena would be part of Cora's unfinished business. It's too bad that zelena is very unlikely to meet Cora. I really want Leopoldo to appear and his unfinished business is with Regina and how badly he failed Snow by taking Regina as a wife. Regina killed him, usurp snow's rightful place, tried to kill his daughter and granddaughter. I want robin to react to finding out Regina killed her husband, her not fully consenting lover and her father. That sound set up warning signs. I've been thinking that hook might revert to Lt. Jones in the underworld. He would be united with his brother and he would be the man he was meant to be had his path never crossed the Stilskin clan. Hades could point out that waking hook from his new life would be cruel because of all the loss and suffering he has encountered. Hook is at peace now. I would love to see everyone react to meeting Lt. Jones. Ps I loved that movie. Only in the 70's would you have roller skating gangs.

In Barrie's Peter Pan, Hook's eyes are described as turning red when he kills. That should be part of his dark one change. It would be a great call back and a sign of the darkness physically manifesting in him. Right now there is little change.

I am not sure if this belongs here, but here goes. I have been thinking what I would have done different with Dark Hook assuming Dark Hook had to happen and there is no long con going on. If A&E wanted to make him dark, then make him fun and SMART. I need my dark ones to be clever otherwise they are total buffoons to me. Ideally the dark one's antics should also make me laugh. I like Captain Innuendo from season 2. Right now he's a total idiot and weirdly ineffective dark one to me. He wants revenge on Rumple - how hard is that to get. Why does he need any of the other dark ones? He doesn't. Of all the characters Hook has done the most realm jumping and he has always been resourceful. Now that he is bad all he needs is the wand that only black magic users can use and taken himself back to Storybrook. He is clever enough to know this. He was the one to realize Zelena was key to getting them to Camelot. No need to give control to any other dark one. That loss of control is driving Hook's anger so he shouldn't give it to anyone freely. And the glaring plot hole of Merlin brewing the curse is unneeded and hot Merlin can stick around. Challenging Rumple to a duel. Ehh. Ok he was funny about it, but instead of showing Excalibur, he should have threatened to gut belle like de fish unless Rumple showed. Of course, he shouldn't have lost, because he the f'ing dark one. You want me to take Dark Hook seriously then don't make him lose a laughable fight. There is no way a depowered rumple should beat him at all. If he had to be kept dark and belle has to live, the way to get revenge is to tie Rumple to the mast and then give belle a lesson in empathy, meaning have Hook cast a spell curse that every time Belle thinks about Rumple she experience the pain and suffering of his victims, so she can never look at rumple with love but only with pain and suffering and bonus points because she will see what a monster he is. Rumple would be crushed because he knows he doesn't deserve Belle's love and he believes Belle will only see the monster. Let Rumple be on the receiving end of the Dark one for a change. Another option, If they needed to set up the Underworld scenario, is either banish Belle to the underworld by forcing rumple to do it using Rumple's roughly squeezed heart or force Rumple to go himself to spare Belle. To further show how Dark Hook is without killing anyone, have him dictate his terms to Nimue, not be a lackey for her. Basically, he is the captain and not taking orders from anyone. Let him call the other dark ones his dogs as a call back to the original Peter Pan -- I believe Barrie's Hook referred to his crew as dogs. If Nimue wants out of hell she and the other dark ones pledge their loyalty to him. Nimue won't like that so have her turn to Emma or rumple (my preference because de powered Rumple is boring and heroic Rumple offends my sense of justice and order in the universe) to get them to stop Hook. Hook can be wreaking destruction in creative ways while he waits for Nimue to accept his deal and make him the boss of everyone. Nimue should be trying to get the upper hand. The dissension among the dark ones should be their downfall and the cooperation should give the heroes the edge. Now I can believe Hook is the worst and he is effective. Although to be frank the rapidity at which hook gave up the fight to be good still bothers me, at least Dark Hook would not bother me as much. Right now I feel like hook's character is being assissinated without any up side for his character. None of his actions make any sense if his goal is to avenge himself against Rumple.

Wait what??? Is Obama holding a press conference?

Seeing hook suffer while Rumple gets a clean slate after centuries of hurting people forcing people into deals he manipulated from the beginning, killing people, abandoning his son completely unlike Milah who left him with what she believed is a loving father, would make me quit this show. Milah better not forgive Rumple. there should be no closure for Rumple for what he did to his wife or how he abandoned his son because there is nothing he can do to make it up to them for all suffering he caused them. Bae spent centuries in Neverland with Pan. How can Rumple make up for that? He can't. Just like Regina can never make it up to all those she killed and their loved ones who suffered because of her. Let's not forget Rumple had a strong hand in creating the monster that she is. Regina is still responsible for everything she did but so is Rumple. He knew what he was doing with her. Hades better tell Regina and Rumple that no matter what they do they still will at least spend time in the worst part of Hell to work off their evil deeds because they can't change the past to atone to their victims.

I don't have tumblr, so I was wondering what the general consensus on this episode is? Frankly I hated it completely and may stop watching the show altogether. I would think only SQ would like it.

Worst episode ever!!!! Birth was such an awesome episode but this was pure unadulterated crap. It makes Bleeding Through seem like a master piece. I am completely disgusted by the morality of the show and actually have little desire to watch the mid season finale. I was so excited for this episode and my heart was more cruelly crushed than Merlin's. Hook's actions made no sense at all. Why would he do anything for Clippy Rumple if the smug Rumple is still around? I am disgusted that Rumple gets a complete whitewash and that he is presented as a hero. Sorry no, he's a rat bastard. I hate that they have brought Hook down to a Regina's and Rumple's level. If this isn't a elsborate long con by Hook from the beginning I am done with this show. I am not even sure that will be enough for me to continue with this show.

I just had an idea. Maybe Hook raised the other dark ones and has them marking everyone so that he can have all the marked ones turn into Dark ones. In his anger, I could see him lashing out like that. Edited to correct auto correct.

Tink also takes no nonsense from hook. I would love aside adventure with Hook Ariel and Tink.

My head cannon is that Liam gave the ring to Killian when he was very young. I am assuming Killian was a cabin boy and his ship Amy have been sent to battle. Liam gave the ring to alleviate Killian's fears and possibly protect him. He may have told him it was ring his mother gave him that she said was imbued with magic.

I think Merlin put the sword in the stone because he was afraid the Dark Ones would use it to cut away the lightness.

So I've been thinking.... Scenario A - what I want For 200 years in A&E time, hook has wanted nothing more then to kill the Dark One. What if he is fighting Rumple and head worm Rumple appears, making killian realize that he becoming just like Crocodile and he doesn't want that and it stops him for killing rumple. Instead he decides to kill the darkness entirely - the true dark one. Once Hook has a mission he is all in and wiling to die for it. He will de-darks Emma by taking the darkness and ends up dying. He is also the one villian that would give up everything for love - his home, power and his life. So maybe he is the one Merlin spoke of as being able to handle the darkness. Scenario 2 - what I think is A&E scenario Hook goes full on dark. He doesn't do things half way. So what stops him from killing Rumple is that he wants him (rumple) to suffer like he did. So he decides to crush belle's heart. Emma and others are able to protect belle long enough for her to drive over the county line in Rumple's car. And I think she will turn out to pregnant with Rumple's kid, but we won't know that until she comes back, baby or baby belly in tow. Hook resurrects the other dark ones proving that when he goes for something he goes all out. He might struggle with himself. Maybe he is able to break free of the darkness hold for a bit. Maybe it's Henry who helps break the hold by reminding hook about who he used to be and a call back to Bae's you're just like my father would be nice. It is long enough for him to stop the darkness and Regina to kill him. Worst case for me is all of the above but it's Rumole who kills him and now rumple becomes the one to be able to handle the darkness without surcombing to it. Proving once again there is no reason to be good and every reason to be bad.

OMG!!!! I just watched the Birth. I loved it. I was on the edge of my seat. I knew Hook was going to be tethered to the sword, but wow I was not expecting Dark Hook! However Hook should realize that he hasn't surcombed to the Darkness. The darkness should have been working to take control.

We are talking about A&E who think Harold and Maude is an acceptable first date movie for young teens.I just had a totally random idea. What if the ring was given to him by one spinster women who took in young Rumple. I always thought they seemed like the fates. They would have weaved Kiliian and Rumple together. I know this a total long shot.

I forgot to add - I thought it was a bit much for Belle to expect everyone to put Rumple first when Rumple was more than happy to kill everyone or let everyone die. Even in this episode he wanted to get out of town leaving everyone behind.

Ok for me the absolute worst thing about this episode is Rumple being set up as the truest greatest hero who lived. If A&E really go that route, it might be the straw that breaks the camels back. He should not be the one who stops Dark Swan given all the stuff he is done. Rumple always chose to be dark. He did not chose to be good. The apprentice cleared his heart. Neither he nor belle get to be self-righteous. Belle's desire to make Emma seem as bad as rumple is another case of false equivalents that A&E love to do. I feel bad about Merida and the actress who plays her. I think the casting team did a great job with finding Amy but she is falling flat. She is irrelevant and taking away from more important stories. I want to see the core cast and see them working together or understand what is happening with Emma. I hate that A&E give us filler that goes nowhere every half arc. It happened in Neverland, wicked, frozen. Only exception is the author arc -- that was a mess from the beginning and I ended up liking the Ursula and Cruela centrics and very little else. Merida reminds me of Mulan. I didn't like Mulan until much later.

This! A million times. Arthur is someone who tried to do the right things. I'm don't think he is evil for wanting to destroy the DO. Heck, I always felt hook's quest to destroy the Dark One was understandable. The problem for both men they got obsessed and stared to let their valid goals cloud their judgment and justify the shakier actions. As for speculations, I think it would be cool if Emma makes a deal with Hades to capture some lost souls escaped from The UW. it could harken back to her bails bond woman days. Hook would be able to help, but if they don't get enough in x number of days, hook goes back to the UW. It would be great if they could track these souls in New York, but that is asking too much.

Although it pains me to sat this, i don't find Hook's sword play to be smooth and well coordinated as Charming or Rumple. Josh especially moves well in sword fight. Hook not so much. Maybe it's the 50lb jacket.

Frankly, I am glad DO Emma has done anything too bad. I don't want her to stoop to Regina's and Rumple's level. I want her to be redeemable and able to live with herself after the curse breaks and she is no longer the DO. Perhaps her innate goodness is keeping her from literally crushing Hook's heart for breaking hers or hurting the dwarves. I like the episode. I like seeing Charming sword fight. Josh makes it look so good. I like that Charming was frustrated at not being able to help Emma. He wants to be a save his daughter , like a hero should. I like that Snow was the one to come up with idea to talk to Merlin and that Regina complimented her brilliance. I liked the Snowing scenes. Ginny looked very good tonight. I liked her Camelot outfit more than the ball outfit. I loved the dwarves and the October goblet. I like that Hook realized that Emma had tried to distract him from the door previously and again on the ship. I had trouble hearing over the music, so I am a little annoyed. I did like his self-awareness. I think Bae's anguish at learning his mother ran away with Hook filled him with regret. I liked Hook and Hood. I am not sure how evil Arthur is. He may be misguided. The only thing I didn't like was the Regina/zelena scene. I was so glad I was spoilt for that so it didn't have the same impact. Seriously, the writers must realize what a hypocrite Regina is. Almost forgot but I thought Belle looked gorgeous in Camelot.

Ok I've been thinking about the spoilers. I can see Hook agreeing to go to the underworld in lieu of Emma. I could see maybe Davy Jones wanting Hook to be his replacement or for him make Hook part of his crew. It may be why Hook isn't actually killed in order to enter the underworld. My crack idea which will never happen but makes me cackle with mad delight what if Persephone (assuming there is one and she is the villian) is a dead/spirit Cora. Cora is truly frightening and you would not want her running the underworld. Heck, you never want a Mills woman to run anything ( think Zelena in Oz, Regina in the EF, Cora in wonderland). I could see her charming Hades or Davy and rule with an iron fist. if her spirit self (for lack of a better word) is with Davy, it really twists that family tree into something from a very dark nightmare Forrest. I would love to see Cora telling Zelena that she was the daughter she should have kept and raised, while Regina watches. Of course Cora's powers would be limited in the world of the living but she could still appear. As to who should be the hero, I just cannot get on board with Rumple being the one to pull Excalibur. I can see Emma setting him up to do so but failing. I actually think I would prefer Regina to pull the sword over Rumple and that is saying a lot. My order of preference as to who should pull the sword: 1. A rejuvenated Snow who is strong and fierce, motivated by a need to protect her daughter and kingdom. I want to see the old Snow back. Good doesn't have to be boring. See captain America. 2. David - He loves Emma and tries to do the right thing. I want him to be a hero again. 3. Belle - I would love to she her declare that darkness must be destroyed, thus becoming the hero she always wanted to be, while redeeming the Disney character and letting her save Rumple. 4. Henry/Hook because they love Emma and are acting on that love. 5...n Basically everyone else in Storybrook N->infinity: Robin, Zelena, Regina rumple. I waver on the order of the last two.

I completely agree. I am not a table flipper and don't that worked up by the show's warped morality. But this scene takes the cake, This is truly the first time I really wanted to flip the table. i have always disliked zelena. I don't like her on my screen , but between the two wacked out sisters, I side with Wicked. The Mills women have serious issues. The writers have to know that Regina is a hypocrite. On Deep Space 9, the writers were so troubled by fans that defended Dukat, they made it a point to show what an evil,man he was. They have to set Regina up for the same thing.

Wow! Tim and Jennifer Cohen's behavior was completely unprofessional and uncalled for. Nothing I saw justified either's behavior. Jennifer should not been a model at all. She did not come into this challenge in good faith. Her demands were unreasonable. The way she was acting you would have thought she was modeling Laure's Neverland outfit. She knows what this show is and didn't try to work with him at all. She was worse than Vincent's sister who totally screwed over Robert that season with Jeff, Laura, Michael Knight. I have no words for Tim's abominable behavior. I will finish this season, but I am done with Project Runway. Berating and humilating a contestant is not acceptable. Tim's feeble attempt to try to justify his behavior rang completely hollow and as an attempt to cover his ass. Swapnil handled what happened better than most would have. He just withdrew completely within himself after that tongue lashings and who can blame him. He didn't come off well on the runway but it was already done. I also called BS on the narrative they are trying to paint to make it seem like Swapnil has been a bottom performer when he really hasn't been. ETA I would have sent Candice home. All I could think when I saw her look was that Vampira cheap costume. Ashley blew it too, but Candice was the worse.

I am still waiting for mine too.