RedheadZombie

Jill has the advantage over most other Gothard girls. First of all, she has learned that (at least during labor) a woman's body is nothing to be ashamed of. No matter how conservative her midwifery books are, there would be A&P which would include clitoris, etc. I would think she would have learned at least a little about human sexuality. I still remember my surprise when I took this class in college, and not only were there very explicit diagrams, but there were also long detailed descriptions of the stages in an orgasm. It also differentiated the male and female experience. I refuse to believe that, at least after becoming engaged, Jill did not seek out some of this info. It is not salacious, just cut and dried medical facts. She also probably has a superior understanding over the whole reproductive system, and hopefully figured out that once you go off birth control pills (like that slutty Michelle) there is no way it would cause a miscarriage in a subsequent pregnancy. She also will have that helpful knowledge about peeing after sex to avoid UTIs, etc. I'm curious to see if Jill ever pursues nursing. I'm a nurse, and it's very difficult to work in a field based in science, while also being a person who denies science. I'm curious to see her evolution (couldn't resist).

Robyn likes to say that Solomon is "everybody's baby", but I think that role is filled by Logan. He was the first and it's obvious that everyone, including Meri, adores him. I think he's just a great kid. He's doing his own thing, while continuing to respect the adults. Of course he knows they're a train wreck, but you don't see him mocking the adults or encouraging his siblings to do so. The parents want Logan to be a role model - which he is of course. But the best way he's going to influence his siblings is to model hard work, education, monogomy. He's never flat out rejected the idea of being polygamist, but he's had a front row seat to all of the drawbacks, and I don't think there's any way he will take that route. He's just too good to insult his parents' way of life.

You know, I try really hard to not think about these people having sex. Having said that, I can't help but be concerned when these sheltered girls are thrown into marriage with it's incredible intimacy. Having seen the Instagram pic above, I think we can stop worrying about Jill. She seems very satisfied. Good on Derick. By the way, maybe we can encourage Jill to delay, or at least slow down, the baby making machine, by telling her that days spent cuddling in your hubby's lap are long gone when the rug rats start coming.

I liked Loreal, but it's quickly wearing off. Someone needs to tell her not to say, "Hi y'all". Has she not heard of Paula Deen? I'm still liking Emma and Nicole, and Lenny is growing on me. I am glad Christopher went home. He comes off (to me) as extremely arrogant and I don't feel he takes direction well. There's an air of superiority about him.

I'm not sure what to think about the pilot. I found myself disliking, if not hating, the majority of the cast. I like the chief, his son, and kind of his daughter. I figured out immediately that the chief's wife is alive. I don't know what the white-wearing cult is all about, but they annoy the shit out of me. I'm hoping the houses burn down from that excessive smoking, and I hope the chief's wife is the first to go. There is absolutely no way I can feel what I'm supposed to feel about that cult when they are constantly smoking - for no other reason than to annoy. Even worse, most of the actors handle cigarettes like non-smokers. The teenagers are totally lost - choking, burning, and fucking each other at the spin of a phone. I don't like Jill's slutty friend, and she seems to have her eye on the chief. I can barely tolerate Jill, but I'm giving her another chance because she was humane to the dead dog. I have an extremely low threshold of tolerance with injured animals. I couldn't even handle the dog being shot, and it went drastically down hill. When the chief first spotted the deer in the yard of the lady who didn't care about her dead dog, it looked half real/half fake. After the chief started talking to the deer at the end, I thought he'd seriously lost his grip on reality. Had he previously ran over the deer and dreamed about it later, or is he having some sort of premonition? And if there are raging packs of feral dogs running around the town, how come the only guy who notices is the bald guy with the license plate- less truck? Didn't like the mayor. For a small town politician, she said "fuck" at least three times in the first episode. She also ignored the chief's request to not hold their stupid rally. I don't understand Liv Tyler's character, but I don't really care. She did her typical - look miserable and talk in a whiny little girl voice. I hope she's the second to die in the house fire. I don't know why she so disliked her David Beckham looking fiancé. The Duke of Norfolk looks to be a nut job, but I've really liked him in other roles. Is he really the only person in town who's figured out the people weren't taken for being good? The prophet black guy is too stereotypical of a cult leader, replete with young girls in bikinis. I have absolutely no interest in the gummy worm eating girl, and I don't get her role in that cult. Are they sexing up everyone or just the cult leader? I like the chief's son Tom. Other than obsessing over bikini girl, he was very likeable. And I actually surprised myself by tearing up at the scene where he has to go underwater and scream so no one will hear. Were those whip marks on his back? I also like the chief. I'm not really familiar with most of JT's work, but I always like tormented and troubled men. He's clearly got a drinking problem, he's also not really clear when he's dreaming or in reality. He doesn't seem to know what his son's wrapped up in. Hopefully he gets a chance to tell his wife how his children are suffering while she devotes herself to obsessive smoking - I mean come on, they sleep holding cigarettes and matches in their hands. I'm guessing that's something that worked in the book, but doesn't translate to TV.

I think Janelle's problem is and always has been her diet. She doesn't cook so I doubt she's eating sensible meals. I also noticed Maddie is putting on a little weight - at the commitment ceremony, I mistook her for Mariah. All these women feed their kids garbage. Aspyn dropped a ton of weight at college. Most freshmen gain ten pounds or so. That leads me to believe eating relatively healthy food makes a difference.

That story is familiar. The only part that surprises me is that Jana was allowed to have something of her own. Jessa learned young how to manipulate.

I don't like Caliban, but I think the actor does a good job. I wonder what the writers' goal is for the character. I got over the Proteus murder, felt pity for him, and then he murders Van Helsing for no reason. I don't know how symbolic the opening montage is. Some of the symbols are on the nose - a wolf followed by Ethan, and bloody hands and scalpel followed by Victor. The image of a fly caught in a spider's web precedes an image of Caliban. Is that how the writer's envision the character? That's not how I view him.

Was that after Carole claimed Aviva has Munchausen Syndrome?

I have no idea if Jana secretly wishes she was married and having her own children at this point in her life. I am sad that she is losing her closest friend and co-hardest worker in the family, Jill. Jana already seems such a meek and lonely girl, as if she has a private life inside her own head. That's only going to be magnified now. I'm know I'm judgmental, but I feel Jessa and Jinger are lazy and mean spirited gigglers, who probably pick on Jana. Jessa's head was huge before she got "her man", and it's ever growing. I wonder if Jana feels like she doesn't have a friend in the world now. Her work load will have doubled - Jessa is too busy courting, and Jinger chaperoning. Jana is the MVP of the family. I think Jim Bob may want his oldest girl to be happily married, but Michelle controls that household, and she's not letting the real mother leave. Jana's a lifer - she'll be stuck with her parents as they age, and then she'll get the miracle Josie when they die.

I didn't appreciate Barb so much on the first go round. On my second viewings of the show I'm appreciating her a lot more. She agreed to the principle because she was unable to have more children. Maybe Bill coerced her, maybe not. She does right by her family, and typically puts others before her. She has a true love and appreciation of her sister wives, and I think she works hard at avoiding the manipulation that's inherent to women in polygamy. I've seen several times where Nicki steps in on Barb disciplining her own children, and she tolerates it pretty well. I loved the scene where Nicki caught Ben sneaking into the house. Ben is bitter and lashing out at his mother and saying he wants to be a polygamist, and Nicki reaches out and twists his ear and tells him to stop torturing his mother. Barb doesn't believe in physical discipline, but she doesn't reprimand Nicki in front of Ben. Barb knows she's head and shoulders smarter than Marge, and ten times more emotionally healthy than Nicki, but she rarely pointed these facts out to them.

Call me a prude, but I do think they go at it in an immodest manner. I've been to a lot of weddings, none of them who saved the first kiss, and even they do a modest public kiss. Open mouth at the alter is just too creepy and inappropriate. The funny thing is, everyone at these weddings is into the kiss. They go about it like a bunch of freaky voyeurs. It's like it's the fundy version of HBO for these people.

I actually like Bill. I like the background of his grandfather being prophet of Juniper Creek (and probably murdered by Roman Grant), and then being cast off at age sixteen as a "Lost Boy". I think the writers researched scrupulously. The inter-mixing of those born to the principle and those converted fascinates me. I loved how they portrayed Bill overwhelmed enough to turn to Viagra, and actually asking for one night off from the wives' a week - Barb refused, then granted him two days a month off. I think he's a conflicted man, but honestly tries to do the right thing by his faith. He has the conflicted relationship with younger brother Joey, who is a former football player, alcoholic, and sweet guy but weak. Bill's father is almost evil, and his mother Lois is the coolest character on the show. I found myself amazed at what Bill accomplished coming from a cluster fuck of a family and background. I love those moments when Bill is sucked back into the Juniper Creek drama, for instance when the Greens got his parents and Ben in Mexico. Bill knows he came from a twisted and corrupt background, and tries to keep his family away from that corruption. Bill is not perfect, by any means - and I'm glad. I did not like his storyline with Anna. He knew his religion would not have approved of having sex with her outside marriage. He kept her a secret because he knew he was not handling the situation right. And his foray into Weber Gaming - he knows that gambling is wrong, but was looking for a bit of vengeance against Roman, and also was allowing himself to fear for the long game in protecting his family financially. Bill was also driven by anger and vengeance when he allowed Roman to hide in Nicki's house after he was shot. Bill usually recognizes and acknowledges his short comings. Something that I wish the show would have handled more in depth - Bill's sister. She died somehow, and I've never been clear on it. I remember a phone conversation between Lois and Bill, and Bill maybe thinking Lois was unaffected by the loss, but Lois was too overwhelmed by emotion to even speak on the phone with Bill about her. One of my favorite Bill moments: Joey is in jail for poisoning Albie (even though Wanda did it). Lois has attempted to manipulate Wanda into taking Lois' gun and shooting someone (Albie?) at the courthouse. Wanda takes Lois' gun, puts in the baby carrier with Baby Joey, takes it into the courthouse, and shoves it at Bill, telling him Lois was going to kill someone. Bill's reaction was absolutely slap stick and he ends up dumping it in the trash. Bill Paxton does humor and drama equally well. I also really like the scene where Margie convinces him that Nicki wants him to perform oral sex on her, and when he attempts, Nicki starts slapping him over the head.

Haven't the Duggars made statements to the effect that they would pay to have a plastic surgeon repair a cut on one of the girl's faces, but not the boys?

In the episode where Michelle water skis and accidentally exposes her knees, she clearly states that keeping her knees covered is her own personal conviction to God, not required by their religion. I think that's proven to be not true by the obvious attempt to insure that even the littlest girls keep their knees covered, even to the extent of adding a separate material to the bottoms of the bridesmaid dresses.

I found the reunion a little boring, but that's probably because they didn't all seem drunk of their asses like last season. The set looked stupid - I couldn't figure out what they were sitting in or on.

I found it interesting that Zach and Devin had opposite strengths and weaknesses. Devin was weak physically, but strong enough mentally to finish. Zach was the strongest guy there, but very weak mentally. I think Zach was unable to shake off the disastrous canoe leg and his absolute certainty that he was going to drown, freeze to death, fall off a cliff, etc. He's like a doomsday hypochondriac. I agree that this wasn't the most difficult challenge ever. Probably the biggest reason why - they didn't have to eat huge amounts of disgusting food that they either vomit back up (causing dehydration) or carry around like a brick in their stomachs. Also, they did have a period of sleep and warmth. I think it was in Rivals II when they spent the entire night with one partner standing on a rock while the other slept. Neither partner ending up sleeping much, and they seemed cold through the night. I don't like Nany, at all, but for a girl who's not super athletic, she was impressive. Her crying was extremely annoying to me, and I bet Devin was pissed that the producer talked her out of it. In fact, there's no way the producer could have refused to allow Nany to quit. All she had to do was march over to the tent and lay down. I like Laurel, although not as much as Rivals I. Her trash talking and intimidation are often seen from males, and I think it works for her.

Zack probably had an electrolyte imbalance and/or dehydration. People often underestimate the need to stay hydrated when exerting in the cold.

I don't know if I believe that Carole has been posting comments under a fake name on her blog. But I don't think it's wise for Carole to shift the blame to Aviva, saying Aviva has all this free time to make up lies. It reminded me that Carole laughed about screwing with Wikipedia and manipulating data.

That's the first thing I wondered. New York accent, loud obnoxious personality, obsessing over a guy she's known for five minutes, and already worried she'll be voted out before making a love connection with him. I agree with you, but it's probably no accident that he looks just like them. Amber calls herself a model, yet the show labels her an esthetician. She reminds me of Nic who made it to the top two on America's Next Top Model. The talking heads are too try hard already.

Nike! I think it's Mackynzie. Her only purpose in life is to be a wife and mother. I have no doubt that this obsession with weddings is encouraged. By process of elimination, it has to be Jinger. I don't know if I've ever seen her without a hideous perm. Typically I would agree with you, but three crosses is one of the religious symbols I really like.

They also make a fortune in alterations. One of the bridesmaid dresses I wore was meticulously measured for. The old lady even made me strip off the snug thin top I was wearing. It still ended up too long (interesting since I'm 5'9"), too loose in the waist, hips, and bust, and the sleeves were so loose they fell off. So I paid for the alterations - a fee for every area, including each sleeve. It's a racket, no doubt about it.

It's also been re-airing M-F on HBO. I requested this forum and I'm really excited to talk to other viewers.

After twenty-three years of waiting, I'm sure my dog would seem like a good kisser too. When will these people get that talking about the quality of kissing and your sex life is not modest?

Re-watching Where Have All the Children Gone reminds me of how awful Vivi was. The number is so somber, yet there she swings with a grin on her face. The strange part is, Vivi's resting facial expression is rather flat, and she seldom smiles. When Vivi and Mac entered and exited the stage, Mac sprints, and Vivi walks like Frankenstein's monster. I also noticed that Abby looks thinner now than the first season.