S03.E08: The Sperm is the Baby

[Birdee]

On 9/23/2019 at 1:49 PM, Pepper Mostly said:

If a woman wants the father for his help and for her comfort, well, have at it. Having parents, grandparents, best friends, the UPS guy, and that nice cashier at the Jiffy Mart in the delivery room, like its some kind of event, is so over the top and silly to me. The hospital staff must go insane with all this.

The number of people in that room was insane. Maybe since I delivered at a smaller hospital and didn't have the space, we were limited who could be in the labor room. I also made it very clear when people started asking about my birth plan (umm..have a baby and go home ASAP?) that if you were not on hand for the conception, you were not going to be around for the delivery. Even my occasionally over-the-top MIL was on board with that. 

[RoxiP]

3 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I think I'm the poster to whom you're referring, because I was the only one who compared Alex's demeanor to that of an athlete.  Please understand I would never compare him to an NBA player--that would be an unfair comparison.  Those guys almost always had years in college or years of playing in Europe to get groomed for public speaking.  I purposely compared Alex to an NCAA athlete--a college athlete--and a lot of these college guys are groomed too, but a lot of them come from rough homes and poor neighborhoods (LeBron James has a Showtime documentary series about football-playing kids coming up in in Liberty City, FL).  Very few of them are shown the way as much as they figure it out because they're perceptive because they have to be.

What I was saying in my first post was that even the dummies in NCAA seem to be able to speak coherently, even if it's apparent there's not a lot of brain power going on up there.  It's about presence.  Alex has it less than almost anyone I've ever seen, and he's not 11 or 15--he's 18 or 19.  He's an adult, and IMO he should be more of an adult--on the 25 y/o track--now that he has an infant.  I agree that those crazies didn't do him any favors, but he has to take responsibility and ask a teacher or a guidance counselor how he can be more mature.  There are tons of programs out there, but people don't tap into them.  I don't know if Kentucky has a Police Athletic League, but that's a resource.  

What I find is that there are very few young fathers who want to be good dads, but they just don't know how.  I'm sure if Alex approached almost any responsible grown man in his life--a gym teacher, even a cop, I dunno--and said those exact words, "I want to grow up so that I can raise my daughter well"--he would get help.  But instead, he tucks his chin, looks down and avoids the situation, and I will continue to give him shit for that.  If he's so shy, maybe he shouldn't...be on TV?

----------------------------------

On a more positive note, I did think Anthony and Rilah did the baby shower well, and they looked and acted really sweet and grateful, and it was touching. I think that baby is pretty much Anthony's now, whether it's his genetically or not.  Once his name goes on that birth certificate, it can be an uphill battle to disprove paternity.  In Florida, a court can hold a man responsible for paying child support even if it's proven that the child is not his through a DNA test if the man acted as the father and supported the child and didn't demand a test right away.  So strap yourself in there, bud (though I would strongly hope he would get a paternity test, I doubt it's going to happen).

------------------------

ETA:  Unpopular opinion, and I'd like to know what others think, but is Alex's grandma that bad?  Like, I know the mom is a toxic freakshow, whispering to the baby that she's going to show an ugly side, but the grandma is willing to watch the baby, she came to the baby shower, and her only issue is that she doesn't want Tyra sleeping at the house, an issue on which she was willing to yield right away?  She is of a generation where she really may have thought that Tyra and Alex were just friends, so she let the girl sleep over, which was dumb, but once she realized that they were having sex aka Tyra was pregnant, she banned the sleepovers.  I mean, that's a defensible position, even if it's not something thought out by Plato himself...

What Alex's grandmother needs to do to build trust, in my opinion, is to create distance between herself and that female Austin Powers, her daughter.  If gran is quick enough on the uptake to realize her daughter is the problem--and she should be able to pick up on that-- and she can reassure Tyra that her daughter won't be alone with the baby, that would go a long way toward me being willing to let the great-grandmother watch the baby.

If she takes on the mentality of "it's me and my daughter in this together against y'all," then she's cut out of the equation unless Alex wants to take the baby over for a supervised visit.  That's how I look at it anyway.

Thanks for your response and I apologize for my error.  I'm new to this forum and not really good yet at following the posts and responding to them.  I agree that once you become a parent you should start behaving like one but I'm willing to give Alex a little grace...but only a little...in order to do the best for his baby.

I think Alex's grandmother probably is a decent person (although I still am irritated that they stood there and let Tyra unload all the stuff from the car and carry it in the house instead of meeting her at the car and helping her...of course I was irritated that they stopped on the way home from the hospital in the first place - the last thing you want to do after giving birth is stop and visit relatives on the way home!).  Loved your "female Austin powers" description of the clueless mom.  

[LibertarianSlut]

^^^ 

Oh my gosh, it's ok.  Never apologize for confusing the NBA with NCAA on an Internet forum about teenage mothers lol!!  It's the same concept too.  I saw where you were coming from and I got your point.  I like your posts.  That's a good point that Alex's grandmother can't be too compassionate if she let Tyra waddle up to her home post-episiotomy without offering to help with the baby.  Actions speak louder and all...

I am very hard on the guys on this show for some reason.  So I was definitely expecting someone to respond that there is a difference between Alex and famous athletes.  And I get it, there is.  My opinion--that I've probably shared too many times to count--is that once you bring a life into this world (and you choose not to put it up for adoption), you gotta grow up big time and I'm not cutting any slack.  It's kind of a tough stance, so I appreciate when people disagree with me.

I guess I'm not as much of an asshole when it comes to the moms (with the exception of McKayla, toward whom I hope I am a consistently huge asshole) because they show more signs of maturity to me.  Even Chloe, who is probably the second-least mature mom, gives me less to complain about than Caelen, who is probably the most mature dad.  The fact that Caelen procreated with the utter human garbage that is McKayla for a second time is almost unforgivable to me.  Almost.  I've been softening up on him the last few episodes.

Well, I've said a mouthful.  I'll have to tell my husband you liked the Austin Powers reference!  Once he said it, I couldn't unsee it.  Glad no one called me out for being mean, although there's still time lol 🙂      

[BallisticNikki]

4 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

But instead, he tucks his chin, looks down and avoids the situation, and I will continue to give him shit for that.  If he's so shy, maybe he shouldn't...be on TV?

IDK anything about his life or personality but boys who never had any kind of father around often struggle to understand what their role is as a father. And when they didn't have a mother either, their self esteem tends to be pretty low. Having a grandma is not the same as having a mother and he's prbly terrified of alienating either one of them. But yeah, he comes across like he's basically 11 years old. 

And my positive note is....btwn Alex and Tyra's mother, that baby will have more thick, gorgeous hair than it ever knows what to do with.

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 9/24/2019 at 7:30 AM, Kdawg82 said:

And you've got to love McKayla's birth mom's (whatever her stupid name is)

Her name is Shannon, a refreshingly not-stupid name.

.

5 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

ETA:  Unpopular opinion, and I'd like to know what others think, but is Alex's grandma that bad?  ... She is of a generation where she really may have thought that Tyra and Alex were just friends, so she let the girl sleep over, which was dumb, but once she realized that they were having sex aka Tyra was pregnant, she banned the sleepovers. 

Alex and Tyra have different stories on when Tyra wasn't allowed to spend the night there any more.

But more to the point, I assume Alex's grandma is in her 60s or so, as am I.  Now, I don't have kids, but do people this age really think that boy/girl sleepovers involving 16-year-olds are "just friends"?  In fact, I'm trying to think of any generation that would think that.

[Mr. Miner]

Why would Tyra want to stay there overnight? What little I've seen, Alex's mom is kind of a POS.

[RoxiP]

Sleepovers were not allowed in my home for my (now 22-year old) daughter.  I'm not naïve enough to not realize that teenagers can find someplace to have sex if they want to, but I'm not going to give them an open invitation in my home.  One of my daughter's friends lived with me for a while after my daughter went to college and she thought I was trying to control her with my house rules (no guys on the second floor, no drugs or drinking in my home and as a courtesy please let me know if you aren't coming home at night (no problem if you choose to sleep elsewhere by the way) so I can lock the house up tight.  My daughter had the same house rules and anyone who is living there rent-free had to abide by my rules, which to me was perfectly reasonable.  Most of all be courteous and respectful of the person who is paying the bills for that home!  LOL!

[RoxiP]

I'm not sure that I don't dislike Chloe more than McKayla.  Although I think McKayla is an entitled, spoiled, demanding brat (and those are the nicest words I'm willing to post), I can see how her background (father dying of an overdose, mother becoming addicted, grandfather with anger issues and alcohol issues, etc.) have made her into the diva that she is.  Take into account that (like her or not) she is extremely attractive - she has an unduly high opinion of herself and has bought into her own fantasy of how the world is supposed to be.  I don't get Chloe's excuse.  To me she is just spoiled and entitled and quite honestly not that attractive.  She hooks up with Max, who is by all accounts a total loser, just to get back at her mother who seems to fit the definition of a helicopter mom.  She is willing to overlook the warning signs about a bad drug addiction just to stick it to her mom.  She is willing to put her adorable little girl (sorry she looks like Max but on the baby it looks a lot better!) into danger just to prove that she can.  She totally annoys me!

3 hours ago, Mr. Minor said:

Why would Tyra want to stay there overnight? What little I've seen, Alex's mom is kind of a POS.

For some reason I got the impression that Alex's mom was not at Grandma's house until recently...perhaps when Tyra used to stay there?

[BallisticNikki]

20 hours ago, RoxiP said:

McKayla ... is extremely attractive - she has an unduly high opinion of herself and has bought into her own fantasy of how the world is supposed to be.  I don't get Chloe's excuse.  To me she is just spoiled and entitled and quite honestly not that attractive. 

Wow, McKayla is extremely attractive? I mean, she's Ok looking. But what? 

I really wish Chloe would have her jaw/dental issue corrected! I think she'd be lovely if she did. I don't understand why her parents never did that for her. Insurance would surely cover some of it.

On 9/26/2019 at 9:46 AM, Mr. Minor said:

Why would Tyra want to stay there overnight? What little I've seen, Alex's mom is kind of a POS.

For the eggplant sandwich, clearly.

[Pepper Mostly]

On 9/25/2019 at 5:19 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

But more to the point, I assume Alex's grandma is in her 60s or so, as am I.  Now, I don't have kids, but do people this age really think that boy/girl sleepovers involving 16-year-olds are "just friends"?  In fact, I'm trying to think of any generation that would think that.

No. No they don't. I'm in my 60's too. I can say with complete assurance that when we were teens, co-ed sleepovers were not commonplace.

[LibertarianSlut]

2 hours ago, BallisticNikki said:

Wow, McKayla is extremely attractive? I mean, she's Ok looking. But what? 

I really wish Chloe would have her jaw/dental issue corrected! I think she'd be lovely if she did. I don't understand why her parents never did that for her. 

Yeah, I agree.  McKayla looks ok, I wouldn't call her a dog, but she looks like a kid.  No sex appeal whatsoever.  I don't think she's pretty either.  She's bordering on cross-eyed, and her gaze is way too intense.  I don't think she has doe-like features; I think she actually resembles a deer and should wear an orange vest during hunting season.

No idea why Chloe's parents never fixed her jaw either!  Her face is unfortunate, but at least she has long, lithe limbs, almost like a model, and a very pretty, lush head of hair.  

I guess I just came from a really naive household.  My sister was allowed to have her boyfriend sleep overnight in her room with her when she was like 19, and my parents probably didn't think they were having sex.  I don't think it crossed their minds.  I would be much stricter if I had kids, especially after watching this show!

[SunnyBeBe]

Is the title of the show a misnomer?  I mean, these babies were not actually unexpected were they? It seems the girls want to have long term boyfriends.  Some how, they think that a baby makes that happen.  It's really sad to see the immaturity and unfortunate situations with the babies. 

[lovesnark]

I still haven't made it all the way to the end. But, I was listening to the part where McKayla tells us that SHE decided that SHE wanted to be induced because SHE is so tiny and SHE is tired of being pregnant. Excuse me, you selfish brat? If you haven't gone past your due date and everything looks good in there, leave it be and the baby will be born when it's ready. Sorry being pregnant inconveniences you, bitch. I'm actually surprised her doctor agreed to induction for no reason other than she was tired of being pregnant.

I wonder how grandpa, grandma and great grandma are enjoying raising a toddler and newborn while McKayla is posting selfies to Instagram and texting them to bring her a beverage?

[EssieMay]

There’s no question that McKayla is a nasty piece of work, but I’m starting to see something that makes me feel a little empathy. All the adults in her life have not been there for her in one way or another, her biological parents literally not present and her grandparents not there as fully functional parental figures who can set limits. Children need limits to feel safe. It gives them the confidence to learn who they really are because they know there’s a safety net, somebody who will yank their chain and keep them from falling if they get too close to the edge. Her grandparents were so caught up in their drama that it was easier just to give her stuff than tell her no. I think a lot of her bravado is over compensation for profound insecurity and unresolved trauma. Plus now she has some real power because everybody wants a piece of that baby so for now she’s got some real leverage. Then when Caelen and his mom try to be there for her in a way that is authentic, she doesn’t trust it. Everyone has rejected her in one way or another so she’s playing the I’ll reject you before you can reject me game. I don’t know, it’s just starting to look familiar to me. She is still obnoxious AF though.

[salvame]

I can't help but laugh when Tyra says she couldn't stay overnight at Alex's house once she was pregnant. Isn't it a bit like closing the barn door after the cows have gotten out? How about if you're going to let them sleep in your house - ever - you make sure they are responsible about birth control, first.

I can't take either McKayla or Chloe, or their respective families, for that matter. Everyone associated with McKayla totally gives in to her bitchy diva behavior, including Caelen, more often than not. I think I would have turned her out to sink or swim a long time ago. (but then again, if that is how she was raised...)

Chloe and Jessica seem to be in a weird "see who can hurt first" spiral. The more Jessica pushes, the more Chloe pushes back. They act the same age, rather than like mother/daughter. It would not surprise me at all if the producers set up the whole scene with the photo taken inside Jessica's house. (You know, the ONLY RULE Chloe has. My ass...) Perhaps if her parents didn't back her into a corner, but instead stepped it up and actually made her feel loved and supported, Max would not be so appealing. 

[readheaded]

On 9/27/2019 at 1:10 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

Yeah, I agree.  McKayla looks ok, I wouldn't call her a dog, but she looks like a kid.  No sex appeal whatsoever.  I don't think she's pretty either.  She's bordering on cross-eyed, and her gaze is way too intense.  I don't think she has doe-like features; I think she actually resembles a deer and should wear an orange vest during hunting season.

No idea why Chloe's parents never fixed her jaw either!  Her face is unfortunate, but at least she has long, lithe limbs, almost like a model, and a very pretty, lush head of hair.  

I guess I just came from a really naive household.  My sister was allowed to have her boyfriend sleep overnight in her room with her when she was like 19, and my parents probably didn't think they were having sex.  I don't think it crossed their minds.  I would be much stricter if I had kids, especially after watching this show!

Chloe chose not to have her jaw fixed because it involved surgery she didn't want to have.

[readheaded]

On 9/25/2019 at 5:19 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

Her name is Shannon, a refreshingly not-stupid name.

.

Alex and Tyra have different stories on when Tyra wasn't allowed to spend the night there any more.

But more to the point, I assume Alex's grandma is in her 60s or so, as am I.  Now, I don't have kids, but do people this age really think that boy/girl sleepovers involving 16-year-olds are "just friends"?  In fact, I'm trying to think of any generation that would think that.

I have 3 sons, aged 23, 19, and 16 and it seems that many parents are either too lazy or too needy (as I have to be cool or my kid's friend) to not allow co-ed sleepovers.  My middle son dated a girl a year younger in his senior year of high school.  She lived about 20-25 minutes away, but her parents were just fine with asking my son to stay over and sleeping in her bed with her.  He was 17, just about to turn 18 at the time.  He asked his father and me if we thought that was ok, we told him no and he didn't stay, even after he turned 18 and could make that decision for himself.  He told me later that it didn't feel right to him.  (No worries, even though I think he got that one right, he did and I'm sure will do, plenty of other dumb teenage stuff, lol)

Once, they went with this girl's father at this hotel opening event downtown (about 45 minutes away) he and his partner were attending.  Her father got drunk and couldn't drive home and he told them he'd just get them a hotel room.  She was 16.  Who does that?  I try not to judge other peoples' parenting, but I have my limits when it involves my kid.

I understand that teenagers are going to have sex, but I'm not going to turn down the bed for them.  In Tyra's case, I think the grandmother didn't want her to stay over any more after she got pregnant because then people had tangible evidence in the pregnancy that she'd already been allowing that.  It makes no sense, whatsoever.

Edited September 28, 2019 by readheaded

[StatisticalOutlier]

17 hours ago, readheaded said:

I have 3 sons, aged 23, 19, and 16 and it seems that many parents are either too lazy or too needy (as I have to be cool or my kid's friend) to not allow co-ed sleepovers. 

Okay, I said I can't imagine any generation that would tolerate that (in response to an assertion that people in my generation would assume that Alex and Tyra were just friends wanting a sleepover), but I'd forgotten about the current generation of parents of teenagers.  

I get the neediness angle, but my parents were plenty lazy when it came to childrearing, and none of their five kids ever had a person of the opposite sex over for a sleepover.  Granted, no one ever even suggested it, but that's because it was simply unthinkable.  But I have no doubt that if one of us had, the answer would have been an immediate "no" and that would be the end of it.

[jacksgirl]

Hate McKayla's whole family. Sure hope her doctor had a medical reason to induce the delivery.  There is some troubling new research about babies that are induced and possible complications later in life. Don't get me wrong, inductions can be medically necessary but seems like not in this case. Caelyn looks so defeated. Get a lawyer now.

The only reason I am staying in shape at my age is the strong possibility that I will be watching my future grandbaby. Unlikely that Alex's grandma is physically able to watch a baby. A newborn,  maybe, but an active 6 month old, no way.

[Rescue Mama]

19 hours ago, readheaded said:

Chloe chose not to have her jaw fixed because it involved surgery she didn't want to have.

Did they say this on the show?  If not,  how do you know? 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Rescue Mama

[jacksgirl]

46 minutes ago, Rescue Mama said:

Did they say this on the show?  If nit,  how do you know? 

Just coming to ask the same question. It wouldn't surprise me, Jessica seems like she would have wanted it done for Chloe.  Do you know these people Readheaded?? Inquiring minds need to know. Or is it Enquiring minds?

[Rescue Mama]

58 minutes ago, Rescue Mama said:

2 minutes ago, Rescue Mama said:

58 minutes ago, Rescue Mama said:

9 minutes ago, jacksgirl said:

Just coming to ask the same question. It wouldn't surprise me, Jessica seems like she would have wanted it done for Chloe.  Do you know these people Readheaded?? Inquiring minds need to know. Or is it Enquiring minds?

I've seen every episode and I don't remember anything being said about Chloe’s jaw at all.  

Please excuse all of the quote boxes.  I'm still trying to figure out my new phone.  

Edited September 29, 2019 by Rescue Mama

[readheaded]

16 minutes ago, jacksgirl said:

Just coming to ask the same question. It wouldn't surprise me, Jessica seems like she would have wanted it done for Chloe.  Do you know these people Readheaded?? Inquiring minds need to know. Or is it Enquiring minds?

She said it in one of her You Tube videos. 

[readheaded]

2 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Okay, I said I can't imagine any generation that would tolerate that (in response to an assertion that people in my generation would assume that Alex and Tyra were just friends wanting a sleepover), but I'd forgotten about the current generation of parents of teenagers.  

I get the neediness angle, but my parents were plenty lazy when it came to childrearing, and none of their five kids ever had a person of the opposite sex over for a sleepover.  Granted, no one ever even suggested it, but that's because it was simply unthinkable.  But I have no doubt that if one of us had, the answer would have been an immediate "no" and that would be the end of it.

If it wasn’t a question, then your parents weren’t as lazy as you’re thinking because they’d already done the work in the ensuing years.  IMO, really lazy parents are willing to let their kids do whatever because they don’t want to have to deal with what happens when they say no.  Then, when the kids are teenagers, the requests are bigger with more serious consequences, but then it’s that much harder to deal with the fall out of saying no. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

10 hours ago, readheaded said:

If it wasn’t a question, then your parents weren’t as lazy as you’re thinking because they’d already done the work in the ensuing years.  

I think it was more society than individual parents in those days.  I graduated from high school in 1975.  There were 700 kids in my senior class, and we had one girl who had a baby while in school.  That's not saying that others didn't have abortions or disappear, but pregnant high school girls was not a thing.

A mere 20 years later, I was dating a high school teacher.  We went to a football game and he was identifying which cheerleaders had babies, and the plural is intentional.  I couldn't believe it.  One the one hand, good for them for not dropping out of school, but damn.

[Honey]

On 9/23/2019 at 12:18 AM, Rescue Mama said:

Wow.  Ava looks just like Max.  

Yup.  Poor child.  Though I'm not sure looking like Chloe would be an improvement.  At least with her resembling Max she has a jaw she won't trip over.

[Honey]

When I delivered my only child our local hospital had just finished remodeling their maternity floor.  All of the rooms looked like an actual home setting.  Low lighting, very comfortable.  For the delivery, they only allowed 2 outside people present, so I had my husband and my Mother there with me.  My Mom stayed for about an hour after my Daughter was born, then the hospital staff left us alone to bond with our baby.  We spent hours there together, just the 3 of us.  He had amazing dinner catered, which we enjoyed while I nursed.  It was a very special time and we went home the next day.

Mckayla is an idiot.  They had a nice start on beginning their lives.  Caelan is hard working, and he provided a home where both kids could have their own rooms.  After a couple of months Mckayla could have gone to work, and had free daycare from her and Caelan's families.  If he was affording that place on his pay alone, most of her pay could have gone into savings.  For 2 kids so young, it was very good start, and she blew it.

[Kdawg82]

On 9/25/2019 at 5:19 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

Her name is Shannon, a refreshingly not-stupid name

No offense!!! I Legitimately didn't know her name but maybe I shouldve said "whatever her stupid self" is called. Insult directed at the individual and not a name. I actually happen to like Shannon Beador.