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Past Seasons: Where The Bodies Are Buried

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I'm still re watching the early season and my god Danielle's daughter is gorgeous! She looked like Christie Brinkly when she started modeling.

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Bravo marathon today and so good to see Danielle and Dina and all the other "Bubbies" but to the rest of us Boobies. The old episodes of various franchises are the only ones I can re-watch. I now rarely re-watch any thing from the last two years.

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I still think Jaq was so pretty in S1. Not gorgeous, but really pretty. Oh course I also thought she was an immature, shit stirring, resentful bitch.

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Oh, for the early seasons, when the women wore regular clothes...Jeans, capris, even flip flops.  When they actually looked normal, relatively speaking, as compared to the over-the-top appearances now.

 

I've been working and DVR'ing the old episodes.  I can't wait to get to the one where Caroline talks about shaving her face every morning in the shower.

 

And the one where she asks Al to retire and he looks at her as if he can literally see the bats flying from her belfry.

 

And the episode where Dina hosts that Ladybug charity event and actually expects the other ladies to help in preparation and they hide in the bathroom because (a) they don't want to help and (b) they don't want to make her mad.

 

Danielle and that younger guy storyline never fails to make me laugh.  She's a grown-assed woman and had to know on some level this was just for shits and giggles and the guy was not in any way, shape or form interested in a long-term relationship with her, but there she is, waxing poetic about him wanting to make the relationship serious and SHE wasn't ready for it...While he'd been telling Joe and Teresa all along he was just going over for an hour a day to get a blow job.  Spin fail, Danielle, spin fail!!!

 

I agree with the poster above.  The initial 2 seasons of any of these franchises are usually the best, before these people can read a lot of press about themselves and start trying to tailor themselves to what they think the viewers want.

 

Maybe I should tweet Caroline and ask her how that daily face shaving is working out for her.  If she hasn't already blocked me on Twitter, that is.  Oh, make that "my friend" should tweet her....  

Edited by Persnickety1
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Danielle's younger guy was "25" but looked 38 with a receding hairline.

 

The Manzos were all in good shape the first season and had a trainer coming over a few times a week to work them out in their home gym.  I guess that gave way to the ham game and then ultimately lap bands all around.

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It's interesting and sad at the same time watching Albie and the law school storyline. He was so determined to get into another law school, and then it seemed like it was never mentioned again. Guess Black Water is easier than The Bar Exam.

 

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It's interesting and sad at the same time watching Albie and the law school storyline. He was so determined to get into another law school, and then it seemed like it was never mentioned again. Guess Black Water is easier than The Bar Exam.

I felt bad for him too. That would be a really embarrassing thing to go through on TV. It does happen all the time. The first year of law school is supposed to be crazy hard and lots of perfectly smart hard working people don't make it through. And Seaton Hall is a good school so it's not like he flamed out of Big Bob's Online School of Law and Truck Driving. I always liked Albie (all the Manzo kids to varying degrees) and I felt for him having to go through such a big defeat in front of the whole world.

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I'm glad to see that people are empathetic to Albie. It's nice to hear a different perspective. Personally though, I saw a pattern of excuse-making (primarily from Caroline), and I remember that, on TWOP, many commented that Albie seemed to spend most of his time fame-whoring on the show rather than actually studying. I don't see Albie as someone who is interested in the law or particularly scholarly or hard-working in any way. I believe that he (and the egotistical and delusional Manzos) thought it would be 'faaaancy' to have a lawyer in the 'fambly.' When my friends were in law school, I NEVER saw them except on holiday breaks. They were always holed up studying or in class...not throwing ham around the kitchen. 

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I've been enjoying watching the reruns of past seasons.  It makes me realize how much I liked this franchise before the Gorgas joined the cast.  They totally ruined it for me just like Tamra ruined the OC for me.   I'd much rather watch Danielle and Kim G than the Gorgas.

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I've been enjoying watching the reruns of past seasons.  It makes me realize how much I liked this franchise before the Gorgas joined the cast.  They totally ruined it for me just like Tamra ruined the OC for me.   I'd much rather watch Danielle and Kim G than the Gorgas.

Co-sign all of this. There was a sweetness to Theresa and Joe and their little girls. I'm not saying they were perfect, but they weren't NASTY and calculating like the Gorgas and that evil and despicable Tamra.

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I'm glad to see that people are empathetic to Albie. It's nice to hear a different perspective. Personally though, I saw a pattern of excuse-making (primarily from Caroline), and I remember that, on TWOP, many commented that Albie seemed to spend most of his time fame-whoring on the show rather than actually studying. I don't see Albie as someone who is interested in the law or particularly scholarly or hard-working in any way. I believe that he (and the egotistical and delusional Manzos) thought it would be 'faaaancy' to have a lawyer in the 'fambly.' When my friends were in law school, I NEVER saw them except on holiday breaks. They were always holed up studying or in class...not throwing ham around the kitchen.

Without a doubt Albue is responsible for the situation, but it's a hard situation that happens to a lot of people. I agree Albi wasn't prepared for grad school (it's a different ball game than undergrad) and this was his first big failure in life. Which is interesting. Everybody has a couple of big humiliating failures in life. They're as much a learning experience as our successes. And maybe it's just me, but I don't think a failure with like that where someone tried and found out they just aren't good enough to compete in a certain environment are really things to be ashamed of. All self-help mantras to the contrary, you can't achieve anything just be working hard enough. Sometimes your never going to be good enough at some stuff and that's ok. There was no amount of hard work that would have turned me into a pro athlete. As for if Albie worked hard, I'd say we don't know. I think S1 was filmed in summer when he was on break and S2 was toward Christmas or Thanksgiving so it's hard to tell how much studying he was doing.

Good fucking god Danielle was crazy! I'd forgotten the way she could read a threat into anything! The strange thing is she was in the right a lot (like when Ashley grabbed her hair. Not ok) but she went so far out of her way to creat drama it was like people would snap after a while.

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I agree. My problem was that they wouldn't accept that Albie wasn't good enough. The Manzos immediately tried to place the blame on the law school and the professor. I would have liked to have seen Albie's parents give him some guidance on how to move forward with the situation rather than just getting angry at the school. I respected some of the things his dad said, though.

 

Yes! Danielle was cuckoo!

Edited by StevieRocks
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I agree. My problem was that they wouldn't accept that Albie wasn't good enough. The Manzos immediately tried to place the blame on the law school and the professor. I would have liked to have seen Albie's parents give him some guidance on how to move forward with the situation rather than just getting angry at the school. I respected some of the things his dad said, though.

Yes! Danielle was cuckoo!

Agreed. I actually thought re-focusing on a MBA program would have been a good option to consider. Since Albie graduated from Rutgers and was admitted in Seaton Hall (again both very respectable accomplishments) I'd guess that he was capable of many things. It seemed to be the amount of reading and the speed at which he had to do it that Albie had an issue with. To be fair, law school has an insane amount of reading even by grad school standards. Maybe a program that didn't have the sheer volume of reading would have been a better fit. As someone said up thread, it's not like I got the impression that Albie had a burning desire to be a lawyer so much as he was a smart kid who liked school and law school seemed like a logical step, but there are other options.

Ashley and Jaq had the worst relationship. Ashley was a brat, but Jaq had such open contempt for her that it was creepy. Jaq just had no interest in having to put up with her starter kid.

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Re: Albie and law school-  My daughter graduated from law school in 2012 and I know it's no walk in the park.

I didn't mean to sound critical of him. It was just sad to see it played out on tv.

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What was that dinner Danielle was always in in S2? Such a random place for her to meet her ex-con boyfriend so they could schedule her mob hits.

She was just so weird. My favorite Daniellr moment was when she said Gia was too short to model at 4 feet. She was 8!

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OMG! I'd totally forgotten that S3 brings it with episode 1 and starts with the christening! The most violent christening since the Godfather! Man, I love Jersey!

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I watched a lot of the repeats.  At Gia's birthday glam party, when they get to the salon, who is standing there all pregnant on the steps to welcome the big, pink limo but Melissa!  And then again at the Christening the camera pans by their table and you catch Melissa's profile.  Kathy Wakile is also straining her neck around the church at the christening (of Audriana - not the brawl christening) and is at the table at the party.  So it seems that the producers back then got plenty of looks at the Gorgas (contrary to Melissa's assertions that they were never invited to filmed events) and didn't find them too interesting.  They were at Teresa's house warming too I think because Teresa introduced her brother Joe.  I didn't see Joe Go or Richie at the Christening at all.   

 

But Danielle was nuts.  just crazy paranoid.

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 The most violent christening since the Godfather! 

Bwah!

It's funny to watch the old shows when Theresa was the darling. It's also interesting to juxtapose the two christenings. Both were ott, but Theresa's was so sweet and lovely, and Melissa and Joe's was so nasty and vile (and as you said) violent. I always thought that the Theresa hate was completely motivated by jealousy (largely because I think Caroline was slated to be the star of the show and thought that America would think that her shiftless brood of ham-throwing losers was as adorable as she thinks they are), but now it's completely clear that it was all motivated by jealousy...at least initially. jmho.

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I second those who think the Gorgas/Wakiles ruined the show. The first two seasons with psychotic Danielle are Real Housewives classics. Like seriously..what was Andy thinking replacing Danielle with Kathy?! Kathy, IMHO, is one of the worst additions to any of these shows..and she lasted as a full time HW for 3 seasons! I'm actually disappointed she's back in a reduced role this year.

Rewatching the series on Hulu Plus and I've gotten to what was the start Melissa's singing storyline..I think I'm gonna barf. Besides Teresa, it's so much harder rewatching the S3-S5 cast. They were quite bland and I remember in the initial airings fast forwarding through everyone's scenes except for Teresa's.

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Why did Danielle leave the show? I thought it wasn't that Bravo didn't like her as a cast member, but something else happened. Some legal issues of some kind? Homegirl was shadey as they come.

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Since Dina is back, they should also bring Danielle Staub back.  I was watching a marathon and she was crazy over the top drama queen and she knew it.  I also think that's what made the show click better in the earlier seasons.

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Just caught most of Season 2 yesterday. These ladies were so much likable in Season 1 before they decided they were "stars" (I'm looking at you Teresa) or everybody's "conscious" (I'm looking at you Caroline). Whatever happened to Teresa's cute natural curly hair? Will it return during her prison stay or will she find another inmate to be her "stylist"?

Glad not have to watch Danielle anymore. Forgot how BSC she really was (ie - armed bodyguards). No wonder she was fired. I actually always felt somewhat sorry for her since there seems to be some deep rooted physcological issues (not a psychiatrist).

The reunion was priceless to watch again. "Teresa according to the NY Post you and Joe filed for BK for $8M". Teresa says with disdain - you consider the NY Post a reliable source?". Our Andy never let's anybody off that easy (probably knew all details of the filing). "It says you have $100K in credit card debt from Neiman's, Bloomingdales and Nordstrom". Teresa again - "that's not correct". Oh yes it was.

Edited by Jennifersdc
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Damn, that S3 christening never gets old. Everybody dressed like they're going to the club, Joe Gorga being sooooo drunk at his own son's chrstening, Mellissa's creepy family egging him on, Teresa doing her usual "who me?" routine, Joe Guidice faking the runs to try and get out of going, everybody being named Joe (I swear there were like 5 guys named Joe) and the fight! The best brawl ever! The only fight I've ever seen end because some stood on a table and yelled "get a hold of yourselves! You're at a fucking kid's christening!" God I love Jersey.

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Was that on today? I was disappointed when I looked this am and didn't see the marathon for Season 3. Bizarre power outage last week (I live 5 blocks from the US Capitol and all power is below ground and backed up so really never happens) that wiped out the DVR and the ability to record and we've been too busy to figure it out (probably TMI).

Too bad, cause that Christening was awesome in a really excellent train wreck way. I proudly have no shame for enjoying it, as I'm not the one who made the bad decision to be on reality TV so we all can mock you . Way to make a great first impression Gorga's! FozzyBear thanks for the memories!

Edited by Jennifersdc
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I'm glad to see that people are empathetic to Albie. It's nice to hear a different perspective. Personally though, I saw a pattern of excuse-making (primarily from Caroline), and I remember that, on TWOP, many commented that Albie seemed to spend most of his time fame-whoring on the show rather than actually studying. I don't see Albie as someone who is interested in the law or particularly scholarly or hard-working in any way. I believe that he (and the egotistical and delusional Manzos) thought it would be 'faaaancy' to have a lawyer in the 'fambly.' When my friends were in law school, I NEVER saw them except on holiday breaks. They were always holed up studying or in class...not throwing ham around the kitchen. 

I agree.  I think Caroline's kids are quite spoiled, and she is unable to see their limitations

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Was that on today? I was disappointed when I looked this am and didn't see the marathon for Season 3. Bizarre power outage last week (I live 5 blocks from the US Capitol and all power is below ground and backed up so really never happens) that wiped out the DVR and the ability to record and we've been too busy to figure it out (probably TMI).

Too bad, cause that Christening was awesome in a really excellent train wreck way. I proudly have no shame for enjoying it, as I'm not the one who made the bad decision to be on reality TV so we all can mock you . Way to make a great first impression Gorga's! FozzyBear thanks for the memories!

I've been watching on Hulu. Melissa and Joe are so gross. I've watched three episodes and I'm already sick of hearing about their sex life. Maybe it's a family trait, Terresa talks about her sex life all the time too.

The worst though is Kathy. Such an annoying meddler. She and Jaq should become friends.

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Holly crap! Kathy has Jesus tiles in her kitchen! Her small decorative tile pieces are pictures of Jesus! How did I miss that! God I can't stand Kathy and Rich. They're like Heather and Terry over on the OC.

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Both Kathy AND Melissa are just revolting. It's just so obvious how thirsty they both were. It would be frustrating to have something that was 'your thing' like Theresa and the show and then have your thirsty relatives glom onto it like a pack of hyenas. They were so desperate. 

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Both Kathy AND Melissa are just revolting. It's just so obvious how thirsty they both were. It would be frustrating to have something that was 'your thing' like Theresa and the show and then have your thirsty relatives glom onto it like a pack of hyenas. They were so desperate.

They are both so mean girl bitchy about the way they don't actually say anything. Kathy especially is the master of that move. There was always a ton of implied critism in her tone of voice but she never said much so on paper she could deny anything. I could actually see how Teresa who is not too bright and has no filter felt completely flummoxed by people who would constantly say one thing in a way that implied they meant the exact opposite.

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Exactly. And I think that's why Theresa was so appealing at the start. There was an innocence to her naivete, and once her sneaky and conniving relatives came on the scene as a bunch of snarling interlopers, I think it really changed Theresa.

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I'm actually willing to believe that Terresa said some shit to Mellissa because she is really rude and lacks any self awareness, but I also think Mellissa would blow everything out of proportion when she told Joe about it later and I'm sure she reminded him of everything she did for his family all the time. She's just so conniving. And her sisters? Man, it's like a cackling witches coven when they're together.

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I watched a lot of the repeats. At Gia's birthday glam party, when they get to the salon, who is standing there all pregnant on the steps to welcome the big, pink limo but Melissa! And then again at the Christening the camera pans by their table and you catch Melissa's profile. Kathy Wakile is also straining her neck around the church at the christening (of Audriana - not the brawl christening) and is at the table at the party. So it seems that the producers back then got plenty of looks at the Gorgas (contrary to Melissa's assertions that they were never invited to filmed events) and didn't find them too interesting. They were at Teresa's house warming too I think because Teresa introduced her brother Joe. I didn't see Joe Go or Richie at the Christening at all.

But Danielle was nuts. just crazy paranoid.

I think Melissa said that once Teresa got on the show she didn't want her family around much, but acknowledged they were invited to some of the events that got filmed. Something about Teresa wanting to have large groups shown at her parties. I don't remember Melissa ever denying that she was at some of the filmed stuff.

I have always believed that having the Gorga's and Kathy around for some of this stuff is what landed them on the show at the end of the day. As Alex from the NY show and others have said, part of the job of the producers is to get close to these ladies and become sympathetic to their issues. I would imagine they saw first hand that Teresa detested her SIL and to a lesser extent Kathy. Teresa probably talked quite openly about how horrible they were, and they probably talked the same about Teresa. This is the one show on the franchise that has always been based largely on family. Except for Danielle, everyone cast originally was related in some way to another HW. I think the producers smelled blood when they realized they had a whole fucked up family dynamic they could exploit.

Since Dina is back, they should also bring Danielle Staub back.  I was watching a marathon and she was crazy over the top drama queen and she knew it.  I also think that's what made the show click better in the earlier seasons.

I believe that Danielle actually quit. When she was in WWHL last year she told Andy that she was really hurt when the press reported she had been fired and that he never corrected them. She said that he knew that she had quit. Very interesting that he didn't deny this was the case.

I do think she would have been fired and she knew it. My understanding is that all of the ladies refused to film with her. Sure, they could be forced to do joint events with her, but if no one ever went to lunch with her or interacted with her in any manner, there would be no reason to keep her around. As it was she spent the last part of S2 just doing stupid stuff that involved no other gals and it was boring as hell.

Both Kathy AND Melissa are just revolting. It's just so obvious how thirsty they both were. It would be frustrating to have something that was 'your thing' like Theresa and the show and then have your thirsty relatives glom onto it like a pack of hyenas. They were so desperate.

No doubt about it, but I never blamed them for this. Teresa would have done the same thing. One thing that was clear to me was that Teresa was desperately jealous of Melissa, and even Kathy. Had one of them been on a show and were getting press and some small amount of fame, I think Teresa would have been seething with jealousy. She would have lunged at fame and potential fortune the same way she lunged after houses, cars, jewelry and clothes she wanted. She has shown herself to be the one who is willing to cross immoral and illegal lines to get what she wants and thinks she deserves.

Edited by motorcitymom65
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Is Greg Albie's or Christopher's boyfriend?

I wonder the same thing. I'd forgotten how much I hate Gregg until I started watching the reruns.  It's sad how the show lost all its charm with the addition of him, the Gorgas, and Wakiles.

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I don't think Danielle elected not to come back.  I think believe her option wasn't picked up.  There was no storyline going forward with her with the rest of the cast. 

 

Sometimes I wonder if TPTB put too much stock in Twitter and Facebook.  I think it is a huge mistake to one continue with Teresa. The show is suppose to be entertaining-the idea people want to watch the kids suffer through the indictment and plea process is not entertaining.  It is also not sympathy provoking to me-it just speaks of exploitation. Secondly to bring Dina back.  Dina is good only if she is the top dog.  I find so much of her unbelievable.  The one advantage RHNJ has-the Sunday night time slot.

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One thing that was clear to me was that Teresa was desperately jealous of Melissa, and even Kathy.
 

 

I think those three are all desperately jealous of each other. If one person gets something or does something, the other two get jealous.  They used to put on a nice face when they were around each other. The Gorgas ruined the show for me. Kathy is just boring. 

 

Caroline and her family are.just.not.interesting. Period. That's why it's boring to watch them. Caroline is so blinded by her love of her children it is impossible for her to see their shortcomings. I felt for her with Albie and law school, but it wasn't the school's fault. I used to work in a law school and at orientation, the dean would tell all the students to look to the person to the left and to the right. One of you three won't be here in a year. And he was right. Law school is incredibly rigorous WRT reading and more reading. If a kid struggles with reading, law school might not be the best fit. That doesn't mean it's the fault of the school if a student can't hack it. I always felt that there were so many missed opportunities for life lessons with those kids. People just got tired of Caroline and her oohing and aahing every time they took a dump. 

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There is soooo much tension during S3. Some of it is really obvious, like the Gudice legal issue. But some of it? Jaq looks really depressed half the time, Lauren looks angry all the time, everybody just seems sort of pissy all the time. It always made me wonder if there was some shut going on that didn't make the show.

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I think one reason for the tension is that these families are so delusional. They had the impression that their lives were so over the top fabulous that they were going to come on television and instantly become media darlings/rock stars. I don't believe it ever occurred to any of them that their purpose was/is to perform like the silly dancing apes they are and then be snarked upon. By S3, it had probably become quite clear that they were perceived by most (in spite of their desperate attempts to show off their money) as nothing more than upper-middle-class white trash. I think Caroline had the rudest awakening of all. She really thought that her idiotic spawn would be revered like the Kennedys. I know this sounds mean, but her silly children seem like they're barely literate, and they are extremely vulgar.

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I think this show had started to change long before the Gorga's joined it - not that I have ever been a big fan of theirs. 

 

IMO everything changed with that table flip.  Not just on this show, but on all of the shows. Suddenly this show in general, and Teresa in particular, were getting all kinds of media coverage from the mainstream media. It wasn't just Radar On Line or Stoopid HW's talking about it. I woke up, per usual, to "Morning Joe", and heard them talking about the table flip the next morning. My husband was stunned. He said "isn't that the HW show you watch? They are talking about it on a news program". They were getting a lot of press not for the good, positive, fun stuff on the show, but for the drama and violence. It continued the next season with Teresa basically chasing Danielle down the hallway at that Fashion Show, and continued with Jaq's daughter pulling out Danielle's hair. This show became dark, and it continued down that path once Danielle left and they needed to find replacements. They could've gone in a million directions when she left. The other gals got along very well. Instead they decided to stick to the formula that had brought them so much attention and continued along with the violence and drama.  Then of course you had the very real world stuff with the realization that Juicy and Teresa were nothing more than common criminals. The Gorga's didn't cause this show to go downhill, they just jumped on and went along for the inevitable ride. 

Edited by motorcitymom65
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There is soooo much tension during S3. Some of it is really obvious, like the Gudice legal issue. But some of it? Jaq looks really depressed half the time, Lauren looks angry all the time, everybody just seems sort of pissy all the time. It always made me wonder if there was some shut going on that didn't make the show.

Wasn't there a trip they took somewhere where a fight broke out after Teresa did something to people from the Midwest, I believe...and the Manzo boy tried to defend her, and they were arrested....this episode was never aired because of the legal problems. Here's a link:http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/real-housewives-new-jersey-cast-200932

Edited by tulip555

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Wasn't there a trip they took somewhere where a fight broke out after Teresa did something to people from the Midwest, I believe...and the Manzo boy tried to defend her, and they were arrested....this episode was never aired because of the legal problems. Here's a link:http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/real-housewives-new-jersey-cast-200932

I had forgotten about this. It happened when they were in Punta Cana. They were all out partying and Teresa opened a bottle of champagne that got some folks wet if I remember correctly. They got pissy at Teresa and the Manzo boys and Greg were protecting her.

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I had forgotten about this. It happened when they were in Punta Cana. They were all out partying and Teresa opened a bottle of champagne that got some folks wet if I remember correctly. They got pissy at Teresa and the Manzo boys and Greg were protecting her.

That would explain why the editing during Punta Cana is a little off. They spend so much time on every little detail and then all of a sudden we jump ahead a few days and everyone's packing to leave.

Lauren's season long bad mood has always been a real mystery to me. She is sincerely pissed all season for no reason. Teressa (no matter how you feel about her and her part in creating the mess) really did have a lot on her plate. I think Carolyn probably always found the younger crowd of Teressa and Jaq and their squabbles a little annoying and was completely over it by season 3 as well as disturbed by all that was coming out about the Gudices. Jaq was dealing with Ashley (badly. God she's a horrible mother) and I think this is when they started to notice something was off with Nicholas. But Lauren? Why the bitch face Lauren? She had a very sweet boyfriend and she was opening her own business. Why the mad at the world routine? Maybe it was the diet she was on, maybe she was hungry?

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I had forgotten about this. It happened when they were in Punta Cana. They were all out partying and Teresa opened a bottle of champagne that got some folks wet if I remember correctly. They got pissy at Teresa and the Manzo boys and Greg were protecting her.

Thank you...Punta Cana; I never remember the name, lol

That would explain why the editing during Punta Cana is a little off. They spend so much time on every little detail and then all of a sudden we jump ahead a few days and everyone's packing to leave.

Lauren's season long bad mood has always been a real mystery to me. She is sincerely pissed all season for no reason. Teressa (no matter how you feel about her and her part in creating the mess) really did have a lot on her plate. I think Carolyn probably always found the younger crowd of Teressa and Jaq and their squabbles a little annoying and was completely over it by season 3 as well as disturbed by all that was coming out about the Gudices. Jaq was dealing with Ashley (badly. God she's a horrible mother) and I think this is when they started to notice something was off with Nicholas. But Lauren? Why the bitch face Lauren? She had a very sweet boyfriend and she was opening her own business. Why the mad at the world routine? Maybe it was the diet she was on, maybe she was hungry?

I think Lauren is just simply a spoiled kid

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Wasn't there a trip they took somewhere where a fight broke out after Teresa did something to people from the Midwest, I believe...and the Manzo boy tried to defend her, and they were arrested....this episode was never aired because of the legal problems. Here's a link:http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/real-housewives-new-jersey-cast-200932

So is that why Caroline went from tolerating the Gudices to all out war. There's a big shift at the end of S3 with her attitude. Not that it haven't been a long time coming, Caroline started getting annoyed with them during the S2 trip to Italy, but she goes from sort of eye-rolling annoyance to all out hate in just an episode or 2.

S3 is really the winner for small pieces of information being dropped that gave clues as to how shady that whole cast was. Ashley and Jaq had a ton of those moments. The entire Ashley Jaq conflict is kind of fascinating to watch because Ashley is a huge brat and Jaq is right about her behavior, but man does Ashley have her mom's number! She'll drop these little comments about Jaq being two faced or Jaq always being in the middle of drama that are really spot on. It takes their conflict to this weird 80% Ashley being a spoiled little shit and 20% Ashley being the only person in Jaq's life that really calls her on her trifling, immature, shit stirring, gold-digging ways. They both have this disturbing "takes one to know one" dynamic with the other.

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So is that why Caroline went from tolerating the Gudices to all out war. There's a big shift at the end of S3 with her attitude. Not that it haven't been a long time coming, Caroline started getting annoyed with them during the S2 trip to Italy, but she goes from sort of eye-rolling annoyance to all out hate in just an episode or 2.

S3 is really the winner for small pieces of information being dropped that gave clues as to how shady that whole cast was. Ashley and Jaq had a ton of those moments. The entire Ashley Jaq conflict is kind of fascinating to watch because Ashley is a huge brat and Jaq is right about her behavior, but man does Ashley have her mom's number! She'll drop these little comments about Jaq being two faced or Jaq always being in the middle of drama that are really spot on. It takes their conflict to this weird 80% Ashley being a spoiled little shit and 20% Ashley being the only person in Jaq's life that really calls her on her trifling, immature, shit stirring, gold-digging ways. They both have this disturbing "takes one to know one" dynamic with the other.

Yep!

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So is that why Caroline went from tolerating the Gudices to all out war. There's a big shift at the end of S3 with her attitude. Not that it haven't been a long time coming, Caroline started getting annoyed with them during the S2 trip to Italy, but she goes from sort of eye-rolling annoyance to all out hate in just an episode or 2.

 

I guess I never saw it like this. As you mention, Caroline started showing her irritation towards Teresa when they went to Italy, especially on the cruise when she asked Caroline and Al to babysit her bunch of wild things so she and Juicy could have some "alone time" (gross).  During S3, there were all kinds of glimpses that Caroline didn't like what she was seeing. The Christmas episode where Teresa threw a gigantic fit when the Gorga's didn't stay for dinner. Caroline told Teresa she was nuts for ruining what time she did have with her brother. She was clearly irritated with her and said so in her TH interview. The horrific way Teresa behaved when Kathy had her tasting, with all of that incredible food, and Teresa just bitched and moaned about everything. The Punta Cana trip where Teresa behaved like a total loon, first with her bikini fashion show (which was enough to make Caroline plead a headache and spend the day in her room), and later when she went bat shit crazy on Kathy. All of that crazy talk about opening up a restaurant and making it seem like Al didn't know what he was talking about when he said it was very hard work. I think that Caroline started to slowly see Teresa for who she really was. To me it was a slow revelation and things just started to add up, week by week. If Melissa and Kathy were half as bad as Teresa claimed they were, Caroline wasn't seeing any of it. Then of course you had the cookbook deal which I believe was the last straw for Caroline. To me it has always seemed like one of the best reveals ever on one of these shows. It wasn't one thing that ended a relationship, which is rarely the case in real life.  It was a slow build-up of seeing someone's true character.

 

I also always wonder what role the whole Dina deal played in it as well. I have never completely understood what happened between Caroline and Dina, and whether or not Caroline had any real reason to think that Teresa played a role in it, or perhaps could have helped to mend things between them.

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I guess I never saw it like this. As you mention, Caroline started showing her irritation towards Teresa when they went to Italy, especially on the cruise when she asked Caroline and Al to babysit her bunch of wild things so she and Juicy could have some "alone time" (gross).  During S3, there were all kinds of glimpses that Caroline didn't like what she was seeing. The Christmas episode where Teresa threw a gigantic fit when the Gorga's didn't stay for dinner. Caroline told Teresa she was nuts for ruining what time she did have with her brother. She was clearly irritated with her and said so in her TH interview. The horrific way Teresa behaved when Kathy had her tasting, with all of that incredible food, and Teresa just bitched and moaned about everything. The Punta Cana trip where Teresa behaved like a total loon, first with her bikini fashion show (which was enough to make Caroline plead a headache and spend the day in her room), and later when she went bat shit crazy on Kathy. All of that crazy talk about opening up a restaurant and making it seem like Al didn't know what he was talking about when he said it was very hard work. I think that Caroline started to slowly see Teresa for who she really was. To me it was a slow revelation and things just started to add up, week by week. If Melissa and Kathy were half as bad as Teresa claimed they were, Caroline wasn't seeing any of it. Then of course you had the cookbook deal which I believe was the last straw for Caroline. To me it has always seemed like one of the best reveals ever on one of these shows. It wasn't one thing that ended a relationship, which is rarely the case in real life.  It was a slow build-up of seeing someone's true character.

 

I also always wonder what role the whole Dina deal played in it as well. I have never completely understood what happened between Caroline and Dina, and whether or not Caroline had any real reason to think that Teresa played a role in it, or perhaps could have helped to mend things between them.

I've wondered about the Dina, Caroline, Teresa drama as well....drives me nuts when we don't get any explanation for the drama that is only mentioned as something that would explain the changing dynamics of these women.

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