S05.E14: Today and Tomorrow

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 2019.09.15

Quote

An encounter with a survivor sends Al and Morgan into a dangerous settlement where Al chases a lead and Morgan has an epiphany. Grace and Daniel make a connection.

[Proteus]

I had a feeling Al wouldnt find Isabelle tonight since I can't see these cowboys connected to the black ops soldiers. But seeing Al's determination to find her was a nice bone. I'll keep hoping for their reunion.

I hope Grace doesnt die. Morgan needs some happiness.

I enjoyed Grace & Daniel in tonight's show.

[SamBeckett]

You know what concerns me. Going back to when Madison was still with us (bless her soul), we spent so much time (relatively) being introduced to the baddies in the RVs. Then, BOOM, they were gone (as was Madison).

Then, this season (maybe it started at the end of last season) we had Max Headroom as the Big Baddie.

Then, BOOM, he was gone.

Now we have the horses-and-hats people. Putting aside the actresses horrible voice and acting skill, why am I supposed to care or get invested in her and her squad? Because if history plays out, she will, BOOM, be gone.

This show seems incapable of writing a bad guy. Not having something like that sucks any drama this show might have. 

Of course, there are the helicopter people. But who knows where, or when, that will develop. But see, it’s that word develop. TPTB seem incapable of developing character. Witness Nick, Strand, and now Daniel, a former master of torture who is now everyone’s favorite uncle.

[nitrofishblue]

WOW, was that one mess of an episode!! This entire season has been one huge WTF. The story lines have been aimless and stupid. People going around trying to HELP others and that is about all. This show while not the greatest used to be fun to watch. Now it is painful to watch. They have turned Morgan wimpy wimpy as he runs around telling people he wants to help them.

[bc1795]

1 hour ago, SamBeckett said:

This show seems incapable of writing a bad guy. Not having something like that sucks any drama this show might have. 

you should have stopped at  "This show seems incapable" 

[nodorothyparker]

So that episode ... happened.  While I think they were going for the same this isn't nearly as innocuous as it all seems vibe with the condo HOA of doom that the mother show has done multiple times, it wasn't fleshed out nearly enough to give me any real sense of that.  It was more like oh, here's some gated condos, zombie pool fight!, horrible actress emotes horribly about something something something in a hat, the person you're looking for wandered off I guess, oh here's your stick back.  So from the map we're to get that they apparently have a chain of settlements across Texas.  And?  This is all feeling uncomfortably too much like the introduction of the Saviors, which also happened in spurts partway through the back half of a season seemingly out of the blue.  Except, and I feel dirty even typing this, the Saviors actually made more sense as warlords sprung up in a landscape with a sudden vacuum of any larger central authority.

I don't hate this kinder gentler version of Daniel The Torturer (mostly because I do enjoy Reuben Blades) and thought he had nice chemistry with Grace, even if I'm amused by nuclear fallout girl suddenly being the belle of the middle-aged ball and having unspecified TV illness symptoms that of course result in her jumping to self-diagnose herself as fatal.  I can sort of buy Daniel saying fuck it and deciding to go along for the ride after wandering alone for however long and connecting with an Ofelia substitute, even if I would have expected him to be a bit more savvy than to be all in with the hokey "we help people" mission and not immediately understanding that yes, sometimes bad guys are bad and we can't just play nice with them. 

The fact that they're spending entire episodes carrying the cat around in the carrier I'm guessing speaks to the reality of how difficult it is to get cats to cooperate to do anything until they just feel like it.  As much as I appreciate the cat representation in the ZA, I can well imagine the crew having planned having it roam about or interact with the actors and at some point after so many takes going oh the hell with it, just carry him.   But they've saddled Daniel with a cat, so now we'll be forever looking for it if he's not in the scene.

[OoohMaggie]

Mmmmm, six comments says a lot, another dull episode, haven't we seen the 'people running away and being chased by a seemingly good person who is really a lunatic' someplace before?

Is the guy voicing Grace's tapes the one who played 'The Sandman' in the horror movies? He also played a soldier in 'The Rock'.

Edited September 16, 2019 by OoohMaggie

[Ohwell]

I never thought I'd say this but I hate this Annie Oakley bitch more than I hate Negan.  

[Boofish]

I like the concept but I wish they made the stories more interesting. It's honestly more realistic that a bunch of Morgan's, Aaron's, Herschel's and John Dory's would still be roaming the planet. I, for one, could not see myself killing another living soul "just because" or blindly following some lunatic for shelter and protection. I would think regular me would still be in there somewhere and would pass on the deal. Given the chance I just find it hard to believe that half the people on the planet would not come together to help each other.

The mothership seems to think that the end of the world turned everyone into a murdering shithead while this show goes in the opposite direction. There has got to be a happy medium.

[DrNowsWeightScale]

I just left a few links in the 'FTWD In The Media' thread, about how fans are very angry about the downward spiral in quality of this show, and they are letting AMC know.

I was preoccupied while last night's show was on.

I even sat through the show twice, but I was not able to give it my full attention both times, so I'm only vaguely aware of what was going on.

I did think the underwater fight scene, where Al had to fend off a zombie in the swimming pool, looked pretty cool.

Ginny the Cowgirl lady offered Al and Morgan some strawberry preserves at a later point. 

I think I remember seeing Daniel and Grace sing a duet of an early 1990s /late 1980s "Traveling Wilbury's" song
(Traveling Wilburys = great band, by the way. I used to have their album on cassette tape back in the day.)

Beyond that, I'm not all too clear on what exactly happened, but I did learn a little bit from reading some recaps provided by other sites.

I am hoping all this convoluted, weird, at times very boring and unclear story telling and plot lines will have a huge, great, entertaining pay off at the season finale - which is next week or the one after??

I feel for the actors. I don't have a problem with the majority of them. I love the John Dorie character, I like Strand and several other characters, but the storylines for this past season are the pits.

Edited September 16, 2019 by DrNowsWeightScale

[DrNowsWeightScale]

4 hours ago, SamBeckett said:

You know what concerns me. Going back to when Madison was still with us (bless her soul), we spent so much time (relatively) being introduced to the baddies in the RVs. Then, BOOM, they were gone (as was Madison).

Then, this season (maybe it started at the end of last season) we had Max Headroom as the Big Baddie.

Then, BOOM, he was gone.

Now we have the horses-and-hats people. Putting aside the actresses horrible voice and acting skill, why am I supposed to care or get invested in her and her squad? Because if history plays out, she will, BOOM, be gone.

The other show kind of has the opposite problem. 

A little bit of Negan goes a long, long way.

He was basically only onscreen for seasons 7 and 8, but his foreshadowing in 6 was so long, it felt like he was on screen for all of six, too.

I do think this show has had some fairly weak bad guy characters.

IMO, they're damned if they do or if they don't.

For me, I sometimes get a little tired of the original show's premise, which is usually The Good Guy Group spends a season of two battling whomever That Season's Arch Nemesis Is.

It's sort of nice (to me anyway) to have a ZA show that does not trot out the "big bad guy" plot line as a focal point every season.

Every hero is only as good or interesting as his or her arch nemesis. Batman might be rather boring without the Joker.

Maybe if "Fear" had better or more interesting villains, it would improve the plots or make the shows  more interesting.

Edited September 16, 2019 by DrNowsWeightScale

[DrNowsWeightScale]

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I appreciate Daniel's affection for vinyl.   Vinyl is the best music medium by far and it isn't close.   I don't give a shit about the advancement in music mediums since then.   The sound just isn't the same..

In addition, the best musical decades were the 60s, 70s, and 80s.   In the 60s and 70s, it was all about talent, looks didn't matter.

I hope they let that cat out of the kennel more often  when they are in an indoor location.  I hate to see that little guy cooped up in that kennel all of the time.

Agreed with all that, including the part about the cat.

I hope the cat does not get killed on this show.

A headline from a few days ago says that for the first time since the mid or late 1980s, vinyl albums are now out-selling CDs for music.

Vinyl Is Poised to Outsell CDs For the First Time Since 1986

[DrNowsWeightScale]

40 minutes ago, Boofish said:

(The original Walking Dead show seems to think that) 
The end of the world turned everyone into a murdering shithead while this show goes in the opposite direction. There has got to be a happy medium.

Most excellent, succint way of putting things, and it's all true.

Edited September 16, 2019 by DrNowsWeightScale

[OoohMaggie]

39 minutes ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

I am hoping all this convoluted, weird, at times very boring and unclear story telling and plot lines will have a huge, great, entertaining pay off at the season finale

😂😆🤣😂😆🤣😂😆🤣

And after several decades of waiting expectantly, I still want to hear Rudolph's hooves on my roof on December 25th!

[OoohMaggie]

48 minutes ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

I feel for the actors. I don't have a problem with the majority of them. I love the John Dorie character, I like Strand and several other characters, but the storylines for this past season are the pits.

I did post a week or so ago, that up to then we had had something like 9 directors and 11 writers in this season alone. I said I felt for the actors having to deal with such a confusing setup, how the hell could they form a useful working relationship with so many different people, never mind what effect such a disjointed mess would have on the show. I think we're seeing what effect it's having quite clearly.

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, Boofish said:

I, for one, could not see myself killing another living soul "just because" or blindly following some lunatic for shelter and protection.

While I agree with the first part, this is the part on this show (and the mother show) that I really don't understand.  

[DrNowsWeightScale]

1 hour ago, OoohMaggie said:

And after several decades of waiting expectantly, I still want to hear Rudolph's hooves on my roof on December 25th!

I'm usually a pessimist, too. I guess I'm just being naive now.

[OoohMaggie]

36 minutes ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

I'm usually a pessimist, too. I guess I'm just being naive now.

I think realist is more fitting than pessimist, although we can all hold out hope.

[nodorothyparker]

3 hours ago, Boofish said:

It's honestly more realistic that a bunch of Morgan's, Aaron's, Herschel's and John Dory's would still be roaming the planet. I, for one, could not see myself killing another living soul "just because" or blindly following some lunatic for shelter and protection. I would think regular me would still be in there somewhere and would pass on the deal. Given the chance I just find it hard to believe that half the people on the planet would not come together to help each other.

Both shows in the franchise have forever wrestled with the idea that people would trade away a lot of themselves to do terrible things to keep themselves or people they care about safe in a world where there is no more larger society or institutions of central authority to provide that.  This show seems less convinced that everyone would be so quick to turn cannibal or mow down other people just because the head lunatic of wherever they happen to be is convinced that's what has to be done.  Both shows though lean pretty heavily on the idea that most people will go where they're led, whether it be wearing corpse masks and living as feral animals or abandoning ever dwindling supplies they may genuinely need later by the side of the road on the off chance that it may "help" someone.

[heisenberg]

3 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

I did post a week or so ago, that up to then we had had something like 9 directors and 11 writers in this season alone. I said I felt for the actors having to deal with such a confusing setup, how the hell could they form a useful working relationship with so many different people, never mind what effect such a disjointed mess would have on the show. I think we're seeing what effect it's having quite clearly.

Another effect is...  Cell phones. 

In modern tv show's the cell phone is very important.  It gives the opportunity for the producers not to regroup the actors all the time and it saves a ton of money by doing it.  It also helps to do some screen time with an actor that is not very avaible.

To be able to do it on this show they just told themselves "Hey let's give them a walkie-talkie each so we won't have to care for group scenes!"

Imagin the actor(s) coming alone or at two on different sets passing a few days talking in a walkie-talkie saying different sentences while not knowing what everything is about.

To me it sure looks that it is what is happening most of the time.

[DrNowsWeightScale]

A few more links - the guys at Forbes really do not like this show.

'Fear The Walking Dead' Season 5, Episode 14 Review: This Zombie Apocalypse Sure Is Boring

Excerpts:

Quote

Honestly, I'm not really sure what's going on with FearTWD these days. It's so boring. 

...All these actors--Ruben Blades, Alycia Debnam-Carey,Garret Dillahunt, etc.--deserve better roles in better shows, and if AMC can't get Fear back on track, I can't imagine they'll stick around for long. I can't imagine thatKim Dickens or Frank Dillane have any regrets at this point.

Fear the Walking Dead Star Colby Minifie Reveals Backstory Behind New Villain Virginia

Excerpt:

Quote

“Virginia is a utilitarian. She only cares that the most number of people survive and thrive under her leadership. Before the apocalypse, she was an efficiency expert,” Minifie shared with the AMC blog. “She was hired to assess what was redundant in a company and eliminate jobs that weren’t necessary.  She does the same thing post-apocalypse, but ‘elimination’ means something a little different…

‘Fear The Walking Dead’ Boldly Pivots Back To Making No Sense

Excerpt:

Quote

I’m not sure what exactly is so controversial about building communities that it requires mass capital punishment, but this gang seems kind of rinky-dink compared to other villains in series history, and I think it’s too bad that they weren’t connected to the helicopter people, as that would have actually been interesting.

[ctlady]

On 9/16/2019 at 11:18 AM, Ohwell said:

I never thought I'd say this but I hate this Annie Oakley bitch more than I hate Negan

Mr. Ctlady referred to her as 'Calamity Jane'.  The actress is horrible.  They're trying too hard to make her sarcastic and snarky.  Stop trying to duplicate Negan on this show

Was it me, or did the the voice narrating Don Quixoti (spelling?) Grace was listening to sound a lot like Ezekiel?

My mom loved that song by the Traveling Willbury's

[CloudySky]

On 9/16/2019 at 6:57 PM, DrNowsWeightScale said:

Maybe if "Fear" had better or more interesting villains, it would improve the plots or make the shows  more interesting.

Agreed. But if they can't or don't want to do that on this show, they could start with making the heroes more interesting! It would be a lot more engaging to see them actually work hard to help the people they encounter. Instead everything just gets handed to them or happens off screen or gets solved with a deus ex machina or the villain just decides to let them go for no reason other than they're regulars on the show.

We're two seasons in and most of the cast has barely had any scenes of significance together. It's always the same people interacting with each other and reiterating the same beat. Everybody is best buds after being enemies one episode prior. That Tess actress posted a picture of herself with Lennie, Alycia and Karen and I thought she was a member of the crew at first because she's been that insignificant despite being on for several episodes.

[Iguessnot]

This show is so pitiful. This infantile interpretation of "we help people" should be limited to the Hallmark Channel or Sesame Street. Al and Morgan will march into a compound so save someone's sister (whose name they'll yell since they have no description) because they are teflon. Some punk writer had Morgan say he would ask these people to tell him everything he wants to know just because he's all sugar and spice.

Why didn't the incoming riders lead their horses to the stables where Morgan and Al were hiding? I guess they just headed to the rental office for no good reason.

Daniel said they damaged the truck with the oversized load they were carrying, even though it wasn't remotely full. Grace radios in that they will be delayed. The person says let them know if they need any help. Grace does not respond to this because trucks are self repairing in the zombie apocalypse. 

I'm so ready for Grace to kick the bucket. For one, the actress keeps flashing HUGE smiles that mess with the flow of the scenes. Secondly, having her hauling supplies, walking miles to a cabin, playing a ditty on the guitar and then having her catch her death of the Victorian vapors was cheesy. The upcoming reunion with Morgan will be cringe worthy.

[OoohMaggie]

5 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

then having her catch her death of the Victorian vapors was cheesy.

The speed of her deterioration was the fastest since my near death condition, to avoid a double date with a girl who smelt like sour milk, Oh memories

[SamBeckett]

7 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

Why didn't the incoming riders lead their horses to the stables where Morgan and Al were hiding? I guess they just headed to the rental office for no good reason.

I thought it was because the FWTD world is SO nice valet parking is available.

[TWOPrefugee]

That about does it.  I'm done with this boring talk-a-thon.  Doesn't help that this newest villain is even more of a cartoon than Negan ever was.  Seriously, she never takes off that ridiculous ensemble? Not even the hat?  I see the biggest mistake this season was introducing Al and the stupider than stupid video tapes. Good god, enough with the video interviews already.

[heisenberg]

14 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

The speed of her deterioration was the fastest since my near death condition, to avoid a double date with a girl who smelt like sour milk, Oh memories

She's not supposed to lose her hairs, skin and nails first or something like that before going "all out"?  She looks like she's dying from a cold.

Edited September 20, 2019 by heisenberg

[OoohMaggie]

8 hours ago, heisenberg said:

She's not supposed to lose her hairs, skin and nails first or something like that before going "all out"?  She looks like she's dying from a cold.

She was checking for lumpy lymph nodes, but yeah, maybe its just a cat allergy 🐱

[nodorothyparker]

That would be beyond hilarious, to survive an extinction-level ZA only to be felled by an allergy to cat dander because one guy in your convoy insists on lugging an uncooperative cat around in a carrier everywhere he goes.

[OoohMaggie]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I am not going to touch that with Morgan's four foot pole (fighting stick).  

I felt the same at the time 😷and I wondered why he walked with a limp 😜

Edited September 20, 2019 by OoohMaggie

[OoohMaggie]

8 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

That would be beyond hilarious, to survive an extinction-level ZA only to be felled by an allergy to cat dander

We live to learn, that's the first time I've ever heard that expression, cat dander, and now I know what it means, Woohoo!

[Gobi]

On 9/19/2019 at 11:29 AM, TWOPrefugee said:

That about does it.  I'm done with this boring talk-a-thon.  Doesn't help that this newest villain is even more of a cartoon than Negan ever was.  Seriously, she never takes off that ridiculous ensemble? Not even the hat?  I see the biggest mistake this season was introducing Al and the stupider than stupid video tapes. Good god, enough with the video interviews already.

Couldn’t ageee more, especially about those god awful video interviews. I’ll probably bail after this season.