S09.E08: Prisoner’s Dilemma

[chitowngirl]

An old foe forces Harvey to account for past actions. Esther has a problem only Louis can solve.

[nittany cougar]

I didn't follow the Harvey case since I don't know the history with Mike.  However, I have a hard time believing that Harvey would talk without having his lawyer present.  

How would Faye have time to represent someone new?  She is supposed to be overseeing the firm operations, but suddenly she can take outside interests just so she can screw Harvey over.

I really hated the reveal of Harvey's mom's death at the end.  It was very cold and seemed tacked on for shock value.  All the Donna and Harvey interaction was lacking.  Can they at least act somewhat romantic for the last two episodes? 

Edited September 12, 2019 by nittanycougar

[Bulldog]

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 2:46 PM, chitowngirl said:

Esther has a problem only Louis can solve.

Seems Samantha and Katrina did a lot more to solve Esther's problem than Louis did.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Is Gabriel Macht okay? He seems to be losing a lot of weight. His face is getting noticeably thinner, almost gaunt.

Sam looked great this episode. This may have been the first time I've been impressed with her attire.

Oh, I forgot Louis and Sheila weren't married.

[nittany cougar]

10 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Is Gabriel Macht okay? He seems to be losing a lot of weight. His face is getting noticeably thinner, almost gaunt.

Sam looked great this episode. This may have been the first time I've been impressed with her attire.

Oh, I forgot Louis and Sheila weren't married.

I noticed his face, too I figured it was due to the camera work.  There were lots of extreme close-ups.

This was the first time I realized that Louis and Sheila weren't married. 

[Orbert]

I actually liked this one.  I like it when they're trying to outmaneuver each other and trying to screw each other, and it's so convoluted that I can't quite follow everything, but I can follow enough to know who's right and who's wrong so I can root for the good guy.  It's so much more entertaining than personal drama and angst.  I can't even tell anymore whether Malik has a legitimate gripe against Harvey or it's just a personal vendetta, but I liked seeing him go down because he's a smarmy smug bastard either way.

[mommalib]

Harvey and Donna have no sexual/romantic chemistry at all, they don't even try.

[lookeyloo]

17 minutes ago, mommalib said:

Harvey and Donna have no sexual/romantic chemistry at all, they don't even try.

I read that they have been best friends for over 25 years. They can probably manage the flirtatious dialogue but that’s about all. 

[Dowel Jones]

I agree about the lawyering up.  Only a fool has himself for a client.  Additionally, Harvey said he wanted to call his lawyer when the PD put the cuffs on him.  By law, the prosecution cannot question him at all, period, without his attorney present after that moment.  Presumably that goes for Cahill, too.  And that cop is going to be in a lot of trouble for smashing his phone, now that Harvey won.  And did Faye tell Cahill to take the deal?  That may be bordering on incompetent counsel.

When Harvey and Sean were talking shouting at each other on the street, Harvey kept looking up and to his left.  Was Macht reading cue cards?

On 9/11/2019 at 7:48 PM, nittanycougar said:

I didn't follow the Harvey case since I don't know the history with Mike. 

It was really convoluted.  Eye-rolling, head-shaking, face palming convoluted.  You just have to accept it.

[Orbert]

Since this was probably Sean Cahill's last appearance, it was a pretty good one.  I guess he's supposed to be one of those guys who's a hardass and sometimes an outright asshole, but is doing it for the "greater good" and all that.  Last we knew, he never wanted to see Harvey ever again, and I can't believe that they came up with a way to bring him back, but it ended with them "winning" and Cahill asking Harvey if he wanted to grab a beer.

Harvey and Donna have a certain chemistry, it's just not the normal smoking, lustful kind.  I agree that it's a limitation of the actors, but to me it comes across on screen as people who've known for so long and are so comfortable with each other that when things went to the romantic level, it just didn't change their outward behavior a lot.  And that's fine with me.  I don't want to see them clinging all over each other or making cutesy-talk.  A lot of couples that have been together for a long time (think older married couples) have a casual comfortability with each other in public to the point where you'd never even know they're together.  I figure Harvey and Donna just went straight to that stage.

Alex suddenly being there and helping Harvey with the case was a surprise, since they don't do/show that kind of thing very often, but I guess it made sense and was a way for Alex to be in this episode.  Katrina was easier to shoehorn in due to being female and a much greater potential for a relevant connection to Esther's case.  But now they're just grasping at reasons for Samantha to even be around.  Bleah.  Oh well, they're being paid; might as well get them into the episode somehow.

[ctlady]

On 9/11/2019 at 10:48 PM, nittanycougar said:

How would Faye have time to represent someone new? 

I may have to rewind and watch that first scene between her and Harvey, but I could've sworn I heard him say something like, "You're not even a lawyer' to Faye.  Did I hear that right?

On 9/11/2019 at 10:48 PM, nittanycougar said:

I really hated the reveal of Harvey's mom's death at the end. 

UGH, me too.  At least they should've shown his mom having displayed some sort of health issues to make it look as if it didn't come out of left field.  Of course, as soon as Donna said 'I have something to tell you', Mr. Ctlady immediately thought 'I'm pregnant'.

On 9/11/2019 at 11:31 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Sam looked great this episode. This may have been the first time I've been impressed with her attire.

Yes, she looked amazing - especially that scene at Louis' house.  That trench coat she wore was so sleek and well cut.  I wish I knew who the designer was (not that I could even afford it!). I know they list all that in the credits, but with all the faboosh clothes they wear, who knows what's what!

17 hours ago, Orbert said:

I can't even tell anymore whether Malik has a legitimate gripe against Harvey or it's just a personal vendetta, but I liked seeing him go down because he's a smarmy smug bastard either way.

He always came off to me as a kid that had been bullied in school and now that he's big and important he's going to pull out all stops to take said bully down, even if he has to go to the ends of the earth.  Harvey was right, dude - let it go.  But you didn't and now you're going to join your cohort Forsham in jail.  

13 hours ago, mommalib said:

Harvey and Donna have no sexual/romantic chemistry at all

I can't agree with this enough.  I was never on the Harvey/Donna train as I found her character to be too full of herself (I'm 'The Donna') and Harvey to be too distant for either one of them to take seriously in a relationship.  Frankly, I liked her better with Thomas and really felt the chemistry there.  The last scene of last season where she and Harvey was so cringey I couldn't even watch it

7 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

When Harvey and Sean were talking shouting at each other on the street, Harvey kept looking up and to his left.  Was Macht reading cue cards?

I saw him do that a couple of times during the episode.  Probably cue cards.  These actors have to recite so much history, witty comebacks, threats and legal jargon that it's got to be a challenge to do that all by memory

[theredhead77]

10 minutes ago, Orbert said:

Harvey and Donna have a certain chemistry, it's just not the normal smoking, lustful kind.  I agree that it's a limitation of the actors, but to me it comes across on screen as people who've known for so long and are so comfortable with each other that when things went to the romantic level, it just didn't change their outward behavior a lot.  And that's fine with me.  I don't want to see them clinging all over each other or making cutesy-talk.  A lot of couples that have been together for a long time (think older married couples) have a casual comfortability with each other in public to the point where you'd never even know they're together.  I figure Harvey and Donna just went straight to that stage.

This whole snip, but especially the bolded part, sums up my feelings on Harvey and Donna and I am here for it.

I think the characters are pretty close to the actors IRL ages and they're in their mid 40s. I don't want to see them crawling all over each other in public, or cutesy talk, or any of that nonsense we do in our teens and 20s and it doesn't fit the personalities of Harvey and Donna. At most I would expect to see them walking very close to each other, hands barely touching when not at work or cuddled on the couch.

4 minutes ago, ctlady said:

At least they should've shown his mom having displayed some sort of health issues to make it look as if it didn't come out of left field.  Of course, as soon as Donna said 'I have something to tell you', Mr. Ctlady immediately thought 'I'm pregnant'.

I also thought she was going to be pregnant. Heart attacks come out of nowhere, I'm fine with them not showing any underlying health issues. I hate that they added this so late in the final season because it's not nearly enough time to have the sub-plot of Harvey handling it (or not handling it) fleshed out.

[Joimiaroxeu]

10 minutes ago, ctlady said:

Yes, she looked amazing - especially that scene at Louis' house.  That trench coat she wore was so sleek and well cut.  I wish I knew who the designer was (not that I could even afford it!). I know they list all that in the credits, but with all the faboosh clothes they wear, who knows what's what!

Per Worn on TV it was a Burberry trench coast. Close to $3,000. (Which I guess must be the "gently used" price because other retailers are selling it for $6,500. Either way, yikes.)

Whoa, Donna possibly being pregnant never occurred to me. Isn't she sort of in the "high-risk" category, age-wise? There's already a high-risk pregnancy storyline going on with Louis and his fiancée. If Donna and Harvey have a baby I'd expect them to use a surrogate.

[theredhead77]

54 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Whoa, Donna possibly being pregnant never occurred to me. Isn't she sort of in the "high-risk" category, age-wise?

She's firmly in the high risk category due to her age. That's not being ageist, either, that's just how life works. I don't want them to go down that path, either.

[nittany cougar]

2 hours ago, ctlady said:

I may have to rewind and watch that first scene between her and Harvey, but I could've sworn I heard him say something like, "You're not even a lawyer' to Faye.  Did I hear that right?

He did say something like that.  I think he meant that, although she has a legal education, she has limited expertise in litigation.

15 hours ago, mommalib said:

Harvey and Donna have no sexual/romantic chemistry at all, they don't even try.

I agree.  I understand that the actors are friends, and it is awkward for them to do makeout scenes. I just don't get why they would not show some affection that would make the couple thing more believable, such as casual touching or a quick kiss. 

[ctlady]

5 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Per Worn on TV it was a Burberry trench coast. Close to $3,000. (Which I guess must be the "gently used" price because other retailers are selling it for $6,500. Either way, yikes.)

Wow - thanks for the link to that site.  And I was right - can't afford it!

[dsteele]

On 9/13/2019 at 1:35 AM, Dowel Jones said:

When Harvey and Sean were talking shouting at each other on the street, Harvey kept looking up and to his left.  Was Macht reading cue cards?

Considering he's one of the worst actors on the planet, that would be my guess. 😱

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 9/11/2019 at 10:48 PM, nittanycougar said:

How would Faye have time to represent someone new?  She is supposed to be overseeing the firm operations, but suddenly she can take outside interests just so she can screw Harvey over.

It doesn't seem like overseeing the firm operations takes too much time and pressure for her to take on a client. Mostly the partners do things and she reacts to them. I don't think the job of special master involves intimately managing every case in the firm, just steering the ship when something needs it.

On 9/13/2019 at 2:35 AM, Dowel Jones said:

And did Faye tell Cahill to take the deal?  That may be bordering on incompetent counsel.

I don't think so. If they hadn't realized there was no deathbed testimony, that deal would have been the best Harvey and Cahill could hope for. Disbarment for Harvey but no prison.

On 9/13/2019 at 9:38 AM, ctlady said:

Of course, as soon as Donna said 'I have something to tell you', Mr. Ctlady immediately thought 'I'm pregnant'.

That's what my mother and I thought, too.

[Sake614]

I thought Harvey told Faye ‘you’re not a real lawyer’ which I took as more of an insult because she wasn’t practicing or had limited litigation experience. Translation: you’re not even in the same stratosphere as me.’ I imagine she’d have to be an actual lawyer to be a member of the bar and appointed special master of a law firm.

[Orbert]

That was my thought as well.  She's not a real lawyer, not the kind that actually gets down into the trenches and mixes things up on a regular basis.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 9/11/2019 at 9:48 PM, nittanycougar said:

I didn't follow the Harvey case since I don't know the history with Mike.  However, I have a hard time believing that Harvey would talk without having his lawyer present.  

How would Faye have time to represent someone new?  She is supposed to be overseeing the firm operations, but suddenly she can take outside interests just so she can screw Harvey over.

Harvey is so arrogant and has such a mouth on him, I could totally see him talking without his attorney present.

Representing Cahill in this case doesn't seem like it would take up a ton of time. Basically it would involve looking over the plea agreement, possibly calling for some changes and maybe one court appearance. IIRC, Cahill and Malik had agreed on the broad strokes of the plea agreement and then Malik suggested that Cahill replace Harvey with Faye. Faye had suggested she take over the case from Harvey because of the conflict, but got rejected. She was certainly right from an ethical perspective that it would be a good idea for Harvey not to represent the person he was accused of colluding with, but that's the thing about the show: it wants us to accept that basic ethics are for suckers, and if they get in the way of the greater good, forget about them.

On 9/12/2019 at 2:55 PM, Orbert said:

I actually liked this one.  I like it when they're trying to outmaneuver each other and trying to screw each other, and it's so convoluted that I can't quite follow everything, but I can follow enough to know who's right and who's wrong so I can root for the good guy.  It's so much more entertaining than personal drama and angst.  I can't even tell anymore whether Malik has a legitimate gripe against Harvey or it's just a personal vendetta, but I liked seeing him go down because he's a smarmy smug bastard either way.

Harvey absolutely is guilty of everything Malik accused him of. The show tips the scales in Harvey's favor by making him such a smarmy smug bastard, and by having Malik (and pretty much anyone else who would call Our Heroes to task) knowingly cheat and commit crimes in his overzealous pursuit of Harvey rather than just be in pursuit of justice.

[bros402]

I wish Malik hadn't done anything shady. If this show ended with Harvey in prison, or at least something high stakes going into the finale (No, Faye helping the firm follow the law doesn't count), that'd be good.

It took me like 2 hours to watch this episode because the USA site makes me refresh the page like 5 times at each commercial break in order to let me load the next like 5 minute chunk of show