Paige: The Private Investigator

[SunnyBeBe]

My issue with Paige is that she cannot be trusted.  She's a huge liability and a threat that her parent's woefully underestimated.  She's super spoiled, very judgmental and cannot be relied upon by her family.    I don't find that amusing, especially within their family dynamic.  Perhaps by next season she will have undergone a transformation.  I certainly hope so. 

[Chaos Theory]

She is an American teenager raised by Russian Spies.. The Jennings couldn't have raised a better American if they had actually wanted too.

I find that incredibly ironic and a great story. Plus the conflict. You can't have a show like this without conflict.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[AllyB]

I'm doing a rewatch at the moment and and nearing the point where Paige learns the truth. And I was thinking about what the future might hold for the Jennings if Paige telling Pastor Tim who they are can't be fixed. The Jennings would all have to be exfiltrated back to Russia. They would all live in a very carefully created environment there with a comfortable life, surrounded by people who admire them. While P&E would work training new KGB recruits, some of whom would be ordered to form friendships with Paige (and Henry), both to improve their own American-ness, to convert Paige to the cause and to help her understand what her parents were like as teenagers. The Centre might also arrange for the Jennings to travel to Cuba and Nicaragua (again of carefully organised trips) to learn more about the wonders of Communism and the damage US foreign policy has caused in those countries. Maybe even to South Africa as Paige has shown an interest in ending the state sponsored racism that Reagan was supporting.

 

And after the Jennings kids were suitably convinced that Mother Russia was good. The Jennings would get new identities, maybe as Canadians, and sent off to live somewhere like suburban London with KGB duties similar to Maurice and Lena Cohen's. P&E definitely wouldn't be left to waste in Russia. Even with their deep cover blown, they would still be too valuable as long-term western cover field agents. If Paige and Henry couldn't be brought around enough to be trusted in the west, they would be left to work Americanising new KGB spies, in relative comfort and kept as 'bait' to ensure P&E did as they were told.

 

I know we won't ever see that but I'd be so interested if the story did go there. Paige and Henry adjusting to life in Russia that was not in reality like life in Russia for most people. While the Centre works hard to bring them around. They could even meet Nina. A spy convicted of treason but still given a second chance to prove her worth to her wonderful country.

Edited February 9, 2016 by AllyB

[crgirl412]

Those would be interesting story lines!!  If they moved to Canada would the show be called The Canadians?  ;)     

[crgirl412]

She is an American teenager raised by Russian Spies.. The Jennings couldn't have raised a better American if they had actually wanted too.

I find that incredibly ironic and a great story. Plus the conflict. You can't have a show like this without conflict.

I agree and that their problem now.  I've said before that they raised their kids not to be liberal enough or to think that real socialism isn't so bad.  Basically, they're too Conservative-not that they're Reagan-ites and read National Review at home but even to have them listening to NPR and seeing a copy of The Nation on the kitchen counter would make me feel better.  I would think that the Center would have a given them lots of guidance on how to raise American kids in way that will be to their benefit in the future but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. Even Elizabeth told Claudia or Gabriel that she "thought" that Paige "could be a Socialist."  When you are Russian Communist spy raising kids in America you had better be further along than just "thinking."  

[sistermagpie]

I agree and that their problem now.  I've said before that they raised their kids not to be liberal enough or to think that real socialism isn't so bad.  Basically, they're too Conservative-not that they're Reagan-ites and read National Review at home but even to have them listening to NPR and seeing a copy of The Nation on the kitchen counter would make me feel better.  I would think that the Center would have a given them lots of guidance on how to raise American kids in way that will be to their benefit in the future but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. Even Elizabeth told Claudia or Gabriel that she "thought" that Paige "could be a Socialist."  When you are Russian Communist spy raising kids in America you had better be further along than just "thinking."

 

 

I think that's one of the things the show kind of shows, that the culture does its own work to raise Americans. Even kids who are raised socialist openly don't always turn out that way--Philip says it in the pilot "This place doesn't make socialists." Whatever they tried to teach Paige politically of course she's going to be a real American. It's her entire frame of reference. Ironically probably one of the best chances they might have had for raising her more like them would be if they were openly Russian and Paige thought of herself as Russian (in the shorthand American sense meaning Russian-American/American of Russian descent). That way she might have embraced it as something that made her special and thought of Russia in a romantic way. (Maybe.) 

 

But there's also no indication the Centre was thinking of this program before now. The kids were just supposed to be a cover and as such the main directive for them was to be normal. If the Jennings had wanted to instill some political believes that probably would have been fine (and to be honest there are times when they are doing that because they can't help it) but I think that was their choice. 

 

Elizabeth is also at a disadvantage there because she seems to have never really dropped her Soviet-colored glasses to understand the US from the inside. She thinks everyone could be socialist because to her socialism=person with a conscience. She sees this church as just being the first place to take advantage of the passion for justice and self-righteousness that Paige has--and she's basically right. That doesn't mean Paige would have reacted equally well to socialism, though. If this church was more conservative in its values I think Paige would have gone for that too. 

 

Because another aspect of Paige that's a sticking point isn't just her being American or now Christian but Paige being a bit of a goody-goody. She doesn't have a taste for chaos or "by any means necessary" behavior. She's grown up in a safe world and seems to really react badly to non "upright" behavior (part of that maybe be coming from her sneaking suspicion that her parents were "up to something"). Pastor Tim calls her a rebel but...he's kind of intentionally flattering her when he says it. She's a person who believes in the system because the system has always worked for her. Even when she sees inequalities her instinct is to use the system to make changes. 

 

Even now that she's blindsided by the truth about her parents her focus naturally goes to that sort of thing. She believes in change, but you can't go around "robbing banks" or dealing drugs or telling lies. She really doesn't want to get her hands dirty. I think that's a bigger sticking point than socialism. And there, again, is where her upbringing comes into it because she just has no experience with ugliness. And I think by going to Pastor Tim she really thinks she can find a way to "do the right thing" and make everything better without any ugliness.

[Chaos Theory]

The Jennings (Especially Elizabeth) were never particularly hands on parents. I could possibly see them raising socialist if they had been told to from the start. If raising socialist children from the start had been the mission perameters I could see Elizabeth and Paige actually being closer but Elizabeth is a true believer being ordered to act like a good American and raise a good American family so that is what she did. The rules changed when Reagan took office.

[sistermagpie]

The Jennings (Especially Elizabeth) were never particularly hands on parents.

 

 

I think they are hands-on--as much as an average person of the time, at least. Or maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by the term. I think Elizabeth and Paige do suffer from a lack of understanding sometimes, but that probably would have been true even if Elizabeth was allowed to be open about who she was and what she believed. In fact, I think Elizabeth herself put too much stock in secrets as the thing that would solve her problems with her daughter. But Paige would still never have been Elizabeth 2 and never interacted with her mother the way Elizabeth acted with her own. I guess Paige might have at least had more of an idea for how her mother wanted her to behave if she was raised that way, but she would probably still have asserted herself against it. Especially since Philip seems so committed to letting the kids be who they are. (Granted, I think that's something he could be more passive about until recently, so it's only now that he's really taking a stand on not wanting to raise the next generation of KGB. But if Elizabeth was actively pushing this stuff from the start I think he might have started pushing back sooner.)

[BennyB]

 

If they moved to Canada would the show be called The Canadians?

Yeah!  What's wrong with that, eh??? :-D

Edited February 19, 2016 by BennyB

[Umbelina]

The Jennings (Especially Elizabeth) were never particularly hands on parents. I could possibly see them raising socialist if they had been told to from the start. If raising socialist children from the start had been the mission perameters I could see Elizabeth and Paige actually being closer but Elizabeth is a true believer being ordered to act like a good American and raise a good American family so that is what she did. The rules changed when Reagan took office.

True, but children don't really have control of their mouths, and they could have given something away in class or with friends, or in front of neighbors. 

 

It was critically important that Phillip and Elizabeth be seen as "true blue Americans" and you don't really risk that by putting it in the hands of a child. 

 

As we are about to find out when this season starts!  ha.

[sistermagpie]

It was critically important that Phillip and Elizabeth be seen as "true blue Americans" and you don't really risk that by putting it in the hands of a child.

 

 

One of the things I'm so impressed by with this is that people often want the pastor to be some operative himself, but what makes the whole thing so dangerous is that Paige and the Pastor are so clueless. Philip and Elizabeth are basically brought to their knees by them not because they have better tradecraft or professional power but because they love Paige and so they can't kill her. And by extension they can't just kill him because of how that would upset her. So the two of them (Paige and Pastor Tim) can continue to feel safe the way they've been their whole lives, and treat the whole thing like a test for them as Christians or heroes or a teaching moment. 

 

Although I think Paige, having far more at stake in the matter, might come to see differently. Unfortunately she can't take back what she said. The family's always going to have this person with relatively little interest in Philip and Elizabeth's safety holding their fate in his hands. If he wants to turn them in, he just doesn't have the kind of reason not to do so as most other people we've seen.

Edited March 16, 2016 by sistermagpie

[SunnyBeBe]

I think the show painted themselves into a corner with this storyline (Paige knows who are parents really are and it is a huge liability) and now the avenues out are rather limited.  We'll see, but I can't imagine Paige taking Pastor Tim's death very well, no matter how it's carried out.   And what other option is there?  

 

Does anyone recall when Paige was involved with the protest group? They went to a demonstration once.  Wasn't that demonstration sponsored by Pastor Tim's church?  

[topanga]

Personally I thought Paige's storyline is what made Season 3.  I would be very disappointed if they drop it too quickly in Season 4 without fully exploring all the ramifications of her finding out the truth about her parents.

I think her story is compelling, and I'm someone who loves the actress playing Paige (I know others disagree). She's your typical naive, curious, passionate, and selfish teenager without being a stereotypical TV teenager. I find Paige to be a realistic character. 

 

I want to know how Philip and Elizabeth (especially Elizabeth) will handle this new threat:  a person who knows their true identities, their covers, and has told other people this classified information. So she's a threat whom they normally would kill without a second thought. But she also happens to be their daughter. 

 

I'm fascinated to see how this plays out. 

Edited March 30, 2016 by topanga

[sistermagpie]

Does anyone recall when Paige was involved with the protest group? They went to a demonstration once.  Wasn't that demonstration sponsored by Pastor Tim's church?

 

 

It was a protest that many church groups went to, so probably not sponsored by Pastor Tim's church but Paige went with a group from the church. They didn't have the money to make it look like what it really should have looked like (it should have had way way way more people) but there would have been youth groups from probably all over the east coast--and not all of them Christian. There'd probably be Jewish groups too, for instance. 

 

I find Paige to be a realistic character.

 

 

I think she's totally realistic. And also specifically a lot like her mother. I think she's a total combination of herself as an individual, herself as the child of these two people (especially her mother) and also a type - the Christian youth group kid of this flavor of Christian for instance.

 

I'm particularly finding it interesting that this story is happening at the time when for the first time we get a glimpse of Philip's life as a kid. We've already gotten Elizabeth's and it was hard in a certain way and the Elizabeth/Paige relationship is important and the parallels have been obvious for a while. But what's interesting about the Philip stuff is we see him as a young age living with actual brutality and it's coming just at the moment where Paige's typically middle class white American sense of safety being both a danger and something Philip personally really wants to protect. He'd love to just be able to go behind her back and take out anyone who's a threat to her or the family (like he did with that guy at the mall in the pilot) without her having to know it. 

 

Elizabeth's basically proud of who she really is--she thinks her kids are getting a lame-o version of their mother not knowing she's a badass who does what needs doing and works for a higher cause. Philip thinks she'd just be ashamed and horrified of him. And he's pretty much right, imo. Paige obviously not in a place where she can empathize with Philip-even child-Philip--at all. 

[SunnyBeBe]

What was the protest for?  Nuclear weapons?  Human rights?   I can't recall. 

[Moose135]

Nuclear weapons - it was held at an Air Force Base.

[Tetraneutron]

I think the show painted themselves into a corner with this storyline (Paige knows who are parents really are and it is a huge liability) and now the avenues out are rather limited.  We'll see, but I can't imagine Paige taking Pastor Tim's death very well, no matter how it's carried out.   And what other option is there?  

 

Does anyone recall when Paige was involved with the protest group? They went to a demonstration once.  Wasn't that demonstration sponsored by Pastor Tim's church?  

They could try to blackmail him. They could scare him into running away and never contacting him again, or behaving so horribly that Paige no longer respects him. They could try to turn him (I think that one's unlikely and I hope they don't go that route because it sucks out all the tension). I suppose they could try to kill him in such a way that would either fool Paige or that P and E aren't involved. There are possibilities. 

 

Personally I like that Paige knows because it makes everything more exciting with higher stakes. And at least there's someone on this show that isn't completely oblivious. Like Martha. Or Stan. 

[Chaos Theory]

I think the show painted themselves into a corner with this storyline (Paige knows who are parents really are and it is a huge liability) and now the avenues out are rather limited.  We'll see, but I can't imagine Paige taking Pastor Tim's death very well, no matter how it's carried out.   And what other option is there?  

 

Does anyone recall when Paige was involved with the protest group? They went to a demonstration once.  Wasn't that demonstration sponsored by Pastor Tim's church?  

 

This show was never built as a twelve season show.  It has maybe 6 season at the high end in it and we are already in season 4.  Yes I can see the show winding down now that Paige knows and that is not writing itself into a corning it is writing itself into a finale.  I can Paige spending the season contemplating her actions and next season being what the actions actual are.   Her turning into a spy  without ever intending but against her parents and not for them.

 

One of the things I'm so impressed by with this is that people often want the pastor to be some operative himself, but what makes the whole thing so dangerous is that Paige and the Pastor are so clueless. Philip and Elizabeth are basically brought to their knees by them not because they have better tradecraft or professional power but because they love Paige and so they can't kill her. And by extension they can't just kill him because of how that would upset her. So the two of them (Paige and Pastor Tim) can continue to feel safe the way they've been their whole lives, and treat the whole thing like a test for them as Christians or heroes or a teaching moment. 

 

 

Thats why I am almost convinced that Pastor Tim is exactly what he appears to be.  The show only makes sense that way.   Its not the big things that get you.  Elizabeth and Philip have always looked out for the big dangers but then get blindsided when their daughter says she wants to go to church and her best friend is the pastor at the church.  Thats the kind of thing that gets you in the end but it loses potency if Pastor Tim is a spy.  

[sistermagpie]

There's an interesting thing about the way Paige has been this season. They've had her mostly focused on whether her parents do bad things etc. I assume that's just the main way they wanted the story to go--it gave her a reason to talk to Pastor Tim and it's the basis of the suspense about whether or not Pastor Tim will tell. So I can understand why they made that choice.

 

But what's interesting is that since S2 one of the biggest things Paige pointed to as her reasons for being suspicious was them not having any family. She took that fateful bus ride to meet "Great Aunt Helen," her self-righteous justification of that trip (she has no family and wanted to meet her) was the reason for the first time Philip really yelled at her about something (her entitlement over thinking she needed more family than just the three of them). She brought up the family issue when she confronted her parents in Stingers. She showed them a picture of some random guy they met once and demanded to know if he was really a cousin. Philip confessed to her that Aunt Helen wasn't real and showed her pictures of Henry's birth to prove that the family they did have was real. This was the entire reason for that trip to Germany--Philip said she thought she had no family so he wanted to give her some real family. 

 

So isn't it funny how Paige literally never asks about her family at all? Her parents have confessed now--we don't have family because Philip and Elizabeth Jennings are false identities. Our real families would be back in Russia, like your grandmother. But she has no interest in the subject. She reacts when Elizabeth is sad about her mom, but doesn't ask about her or her family.

 

Is it just that Paige felt so disconnected from this woman in Germany she no longer thinks family offers anything for her? Is she just so torn about her own identity that she doesn't feel like she'd get anything out of hearing stories about Uncle Fyodor and his accordion playing? Would she feel like those stories are infringing on who she wants to be, like they're another burden? Is it just what she said to Elizabeth when Elizabeth tried to share stories of her life, that she doesn't believe her? Does she sense her mother, in particular, wants to share this stuff so she's refusing on principle? Does she fear that knowing about these people would tie her to them irrevocably? Do they just not really count in her mind if they're so foreign?

 

I just wonder about it. I don't think it's a flaw in the writing or anything. It seems like a deliberate choice and there's many reasons why Paige wouldn't want to ask about it. It's just kind of interesting how they can have her go so full-court press on this issue and then once the door is open seem to lose interest or deliberately refuse to walk through it. I guess part of it had always made sense to me because it does seem like a later phase of you relationship with your parents. First you realize they're real people with lives outside of you, that they can be flawed in ways you think are terrible. It's only later that you see them as people like yourself with their own experiences. Even back when Paige was demanding to know about her family her questions were never about them. The fact that dad's father may have died when he was six only mattered in so far as he didn't have a grandfather to offer so what else ya got?

[Umbelina]

Or maybe she was focused on the whole "family" thing simply as the biggest reason she felt something was "off?"  Along with her parent's weird schedules and hanging out in the basement so much?

 

I dunno, could be.

[Hecate7]

There's an interesting thing about the way Paige has been this season. They've had her mostly focused on whether her parents do bad things etc. I assume that's just the main way they wanted the story to go--it gave her a reason to talk to Pastor Tim and it's the basis of the suspense about whether or not Pastor Tim will tell. So I can understand why they made that choice.

 

But what's interesting is that since S2 one of the biggest things Paige pointed to as her reasons for being suspicious was them not having any family. She took that fateful bus ride to meet "Great Aunt Helen," her self-righteous justification of that trip (she has no family and wanted to meet her) was the reason for the first time Philip really yelled at her about something (her entitlement over thinking she needed more family than just the three of them). She brought up the family issue when she confronted her parents in Stingers. She showed them a picture of some random guy they met once and demanded to know if he was really a cousin. Philip confessed to her that Aunt Helen wasn't real and showed her pictures of Henry's birth to prove that the family they did have was real. This was the entire reason for that trip to Germany--Philip said she thought she had no family so he wanted to give her some real family. 

 

So isn't it funny how Paige literally never asks about her family at all? Her parents have confessed now--we don't have family because Philip and Elizabeth Jennings are false identities. Our real families would be back in Russia, like your grandmother. But she has no interest in the subject. She reacts when Elizabeth is sad about her mom, but doesn't ask about her or her family.

 

Is it just that Paige felt so disconnected from this woman in Germany she no longer thinks family offers anything for her? Is she just so torn about her own identity that she doesn't feel like she'd get anything out of hearing stories about Uncle Fyodor and his accordion playing? Would she feel like those stories are infringing on who she wants to be, like they're another burden? Is it just what she said to Elizabeth when Elizabeth tried to share stories of her life, that she doesn't believe her? Does she sense her mother, in particular, wants to share this stuff so she's refusing on principle? Does she fear that knowing about these people would tie her to them irrevocably? Do they just not really count in her mind if they're so foreign?

 

I just wonder about it. I don't think it's a flaw in the writing or anything. It seems like a deliberate choice and there's many reasons why Paige wouldn't want to ask about it. It's just kind of interesting how they can have her go so full-court press on this issue and then once the door is open seem to lose interest or deliberately refuse to walk through it. I guess part of it had always made sense to me because it does seem like a later phase of you relationship with your parents. First you realize they're real people with lives outside of you, that they can be flawed in ways you think are terrible. It's only later that you see them as people like yourself with their own experiences. Even back when Paige was demanding to know about her family her questions were never about them. The fact that dad's father may have died when he was six only mattered in so far as he didn't have a grandfather to offer so what else ya got?

 

 

It's her age. Kids that age really only think about themselves, and only care about people in a very loose way, in terms of "how is this about me?" So nothing that's really not about her actually matters much to Paige, and it won't until she's much older. That's why the adults didn't really worry that much about her being hard to fool or anything like that. Just satisfy her about herself, and you're good til she's 20.

[sistermagpie]

Or maybe she was focused on the whole "family" thing simply as the biggest reason she felt something was "off?"  Along with her parent's weird schedules and hanging out in the basement so much?

 

 

It's her age. Kids that age really only think about themselves, and only care about people in a very loose way, in terms of "how is this about me?" So nothing that's really not about her actually matters much to Paige, and it won't until she's much older. That's why the adults didn't really worry that much about her being hard to fool or anything like that. Just satisfy her about herself, and you're good til she's 20.

 

 

 

Totally agree with both these ideas. I guess it just seems like another really interesting, subtle point that Paige hasn't embraced any of this as part of herself. I feel like she just doesn't think she can. Like, if her parents were normal immigrants she might have gone through a phase at this age where she was all about "being Russian" in her totally American way because it made her special etc. (Of course it would be just as believable if she rejected everything Russian and was totally American.) I just think her lack of interest in the subject is really interesting--and totally realistic. Like she's accepted that her parents have these totally other identities but is very much only able to process them in terms of what they mean to *her.* It doesn't seem like she's even ready to imagine that there could be this other culture that's also part of her, if that makes sense.

 

So I guess basically I think the show is making a point of *showing* this about Paige, that she's continuing to deal with her parents the way she always has, as figures who are a part of her life and don't much exist outside of that. She's starting to get some cracks in that with her panic over whether telling Pastor Tim will hurt them, but it's still a very limited world with Paige at the center. Another teenager taking a more normal trip to meet her grandmother might have liked the idea of incorporating a foreign country into her identity in some way--maybe thinking it made her special. But Paige seems particularly not about that. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by sistermagpie

[sistermagpie]

As much as I love this show (and it really IS my favorite show in the history of television), I still find it's depiction of Paige's religious experience really unrealistic. Not long ago she was a die-hard Jesus-freak, and now she's dating a guy who's not only not part of her church, but who's showing no interest in God whatsoever? I just don't buy it. She would, at the very least, feel conflicted - VERY conflicted. And re: sex, she would have a whole different perspective on that having been indoctrinated in a Christian youth group the previous year. 

 

This is something I was discussing elsewhere--I totally agree. When she got into the Youth Group she started framing her morality specifically within that framework, even if she didn't do it in a way that sounded like the very Christian teens I have met. (Again--Pastor Tim and his unusual church.)

Now she's forced to go to church and Pastor Tim betrayed her--so okay, totally believable that her feelings about it have changed in some way. It's also believable for a kid to go through a big religious phase and then get out of it (and Paige wasn't even religious beforehand).

What's weird is that Paige's shifting ideas about morality and her confusion about it are central to the plot yet this aspect of it isn't there *at all.* I mean, the whole mugging thing goes right to the heart of one of the first things Paige used to go on and on about when it came to church: Pastor Tim and Jesus were explicitly linked to pacifism in her eyes. Moving from that to more aggressive stuff was one of the first things Elizabeth brought up when trying to work up to revealing herself. Paige's attitude about Gregory went from warm to ice cold when she found out he was a drug dealer. Now her pacifism has been challenged by her facing real danger for the first time, but it's only being dealt with as a PTSD issue.  She questioned whether Elizabeth had to kill the guy but doesn't seem worried that this was an evil act, one that she may be grateful for, and what would Jesus think of that? Pacifism isn't so easy when faced with actual danger--and now Paige is learning self-defense. A self-defense where the first lesson is that killing is sometimes necessary and protecting yourself is the priority.

Now she's still walking around wearing the cross (was that the necklace her parents gave her for her birthday? It's like it just sprouted from her neck at some point), she's forced to deal with Pastor Tim even more than before, yet we have no idea if she's praying to try to figure out what she should do. We don't see how she talks to Pastor Time--We know that she no longer considers him a mentor but it's not like he doesn't consider himself one, and as a pastor he should be framing this all in a Christian way. Paige is also forced to go to church and Bible study every week. Is that resonating for her in some way? She herself said it would be clear if she "wasn't into it" at Bible Study--how is she faking that, since she's incapable of hiding her distress with Stan? Is she acting like Philip at EST, telling adjusted versions of the truth and finding the pat answers she gets there unhelpful? She used to read the Bible for answers and have it filled with stickies. Is she looking in there for any of this? Does she find herself impatiently arguing with kids at the church group now? Or wanting to argue? It's like not just Paige but Pastor Tim, too, suddenly stopped being religious and decided all that mattered was how we treat each other. Even when Alice was threatening to turn them in she didn't invoke her God as protection--the way very believable Christian lady Viola did back in S1.

It's certainly possible that Paige finds Pastor Tim's previous promises about God and the Bible to have fallen short, but faith is central to the show. She wouldn't just give that faith up without a fight. People who were heavy into this sort of thing do certainly grow up to be atheists sometimes, but probably not overnight and not without a period of transition. Does she feel grief at losing God? Does she think God is mad at her? Is she looking for something to replace him? Does she separate Tim's flawed nature from God's perfect one? Does she feel like she never really believed/he was never really there at all? Pastor Tim himself even described her as, like her mother, a person who gave 100% to everything. Right now she's confused, unable to give 100%, but she'd be conflicted. We've never seen her once even try to pray, ask for forgiveness, look to God for comfort. The last time she mentioned prayer it was to say she prayed with Alice for Tim's safe return from Ethiopia. Unclear whether she meant she thought the prayer helped or that she saw herself as praying for Tim to be protected from her parents' own evil gods.

And yes, a church that heavily into the Bible, one that appealed to a kid who suspected her parents of having an affair and who seemed to find other kids whose parents had affairs or bad marriages etc. in youth group, probably would have gotten a heavy dose of discussion on the proper place for sex. It honestly seems like sexual misbehavior was central to the bond those kids had. Martial infidelity or problems was brought up multiple times. (Pastor Tim at one point even seemed to be nudging Paige together with another boy in the Youth Group.) I always thought that was a big part of the draw of the church, that it was full of people Paige saw as normal and honest compared to her lying parents. That, again, would be an interesting contrast to her parents' pragmatic views on sex and hard-earned wisdom about intimacy. But it's not even like Paige's later decisions to drink beer and maybe have sex are shown as a rejection of the Youth Group culture that she's still having to pretend to be into. She's not having to pretend to be straight-laced at church and then going to the extreme other direction in secret at home. The church just seems to have no influence on her behavior at all. Despite the fact that Philip and Elizabeth's views on sex would presumably be diametrically opposed to them.

Some have accused her parents of doing this by "poisoning" her relationship to Pastor Tim by making her report on him, but I don't think that's true at all. Paige changed the nature of that relationship when she handed him the secret and made him a threat. It made sense that she did that at the time--she wanted to go back to the way things were before where Tim was just the safe guy with easy answers she could bitch about her parents to and he was always on her side. She wanted her anchor back and wound up tying it around her own neck. But if that poisoned her relationship to the church and God, that would be its own thing.

Basically, the main things the show associated with Paige's Christianity were: non-violence, political activism that was mostly within the system (Tim got arrested), sexual infidelity (she originally assumed her parents' issues had to do with affairs) and oh yeah, lying. She didn't want to be a liar like her parents. She called Tim to say her parents were trying to make her a liar too. The Church also seemed to give her community--surely that's not the same now. The only other thing was what she described to Elizabeth about prayer, that it does make you feel like someone is there with you. All the other things are being explicitly attacked and destroyed. The last one almost seems forgotten about.

[methodwriter85]

I feel like every episode since the show had Paige find out seems to be about pointing out all the ways in which she is NOT suited to become a spy, and how Elizabeth refuses to see it while it's dawning on Phillip that Paige is simply not able to handle that kind of lifestyle because she's a fragile, neurotic person who can't stand lying.

I did think it was interesting how Paige is slowly realizing she's just not really into Matthew. That's what dating is, sweetie!

Edited April 9, 2017 by methodwriter85

[sistermagpie]

34 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

I feel like every episode since the show had Paige find out seems to be about pointing out all the ways in which she is NOT suited to become a spy, and how Elizabeth refuses to see it while it's dawning on Phillip that Paige is simply not able to handle that kind of lifestyle because she's a fragile, neurotic person who can't stand lying.

It really does seem like that, doesn't it? So often people will react to an episode by saying that Paige is "becoming a spy" because she lied about something or read Pastor Tim's diary when to me she seems like she's needing instruction on things that most 16-year-olds would be way ahead on already.

[SlovakPrincess]

On April 9, 2017 at 7:16 PM, methodwriter85 said:

I feel like every episode since the show had Paige find out seems to be about pointing out all the ways in which she is NOT suited to become a spy, and how Elizabeth refuses to see it while it's dawning on Phillip that Paige is simply not able to handle that kind of lifestyle because she's a fragile, neurotic person who can't stand lying.

I did think it was interesting how Paige is slowly realizing she's just not really into Matthew. That's what dating is, sweetie!

Yep.  

Paige has Philip's sensitivity and tendency to brood ... without the hard life experiences that helped mold him into a good (if miserable and on thin ice with the Centre) spy. 

The ideas of nature vs nurture are interesting here.  Personality-wise, Paige is basically Philip, but without being raised in deprivation and with the belief that your life is not your own but belongs to your country.  Philip is intelligent, but he hates it and really just gets by as a spy because he had and has to.  Elizabeth has more of an affinity and zeal for spying ... but if she had been raised as a well-off American, she might have applied her skills very differently.   

Paige is lacking both the natural temperament to be a good spy AND the environmental influences that might have molded her into one.  She is intelligent and would excel in a lot of professions - just not the one she may be forced into.  

Edited April 13, 2017 by SlovakPrincess

[sistermagpie]

52 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

The ideas of nature vs nurture are interesting here.  Personality-wise, Paige is basically Philip, but without being raised in deprivation and with the belief that your life is not your own but belongs to your country.  Philip is intelligent, but he hates it and really just gets by as a spy because he had and has to.  

I actually think it's more like personality-wise she's more like Elizabeth but without being raised with the deprivation etc. Elizabeth, her own mother notes, demands truth. She hates pretending to be what she's not. But she does it because she's a fanatic--that's where she's like Paige. They both want to dedicate their life to a higher cause that makes them always right and gives them an authority to guide themselves by. It can justify both killing and spying.

Philip is actually a totally natural spy. He acts like a spy in his personal life as well as his professional life, splintering himself into different personas and living all of them somewhat honestly. He's the one who's linked to "making it real." Even as Philip Jennings he's often giving answers that the other person wants to hear, being the person they need him to be. He believed he could just disappear into the fake role he plays because it's as real as any other. When Elizabeth "makes it real" with somebody it's generally been because they had something that specifically appealed to the real Elizabeth.

It's the killing and the hurting Philip doesn't like. When he's got a fake persona he's devoting himself too he naturally starts caring about the people he's with and even trying to help them in some ways. But then he winds up having to stab them in the back and hates himself. Or he just kills a person and empathizes with them too much to just write it off. Maybe because killing is something he did as himself before he was recruited.

For further evidence, that's the reason that the people who are devoted to Elizabeth are devoted to Elizabeth herself--her real self. Gregory and Hans knew her as a KGB spy and that's who they wanted to follow. Philip's devotees are people like Martha and Kimmie, people who came to love a fake persona who was created to be exactly what they needed. His "real life" romance with Irina ended with a lie and when he slept with her again later he was, in the words of I think the actor, taking a vacation from his "real" self by being someone else, a version of his past self. I would bet that if Philip hadn't been recruited he'd be incorporating spy-type behavior into his real life. 

[TheBride]

Paige is as interesting as a cardboard box. I'm hoping they nix her from her growing plot. It's clear that Henry is the brains of the offspring and he may figure this all out by himself. Who would know...he's used to not sharing. At any rate, I fast-forward her parts!

[sistermagpie]

Quote

 

I agree that the focus on Paige serves to emphasize Elizabeth's character and back story. And perhaps that's part of my problem with the storyline. Paige seems to exist not as a complete character but as a plot device that reflects back on Elizabeth and her commitment to the cause.

Why does Paige feel that she can no longer have a "normal life?" Because her parents are spies? We never really saw anything to indicate that she was uncomfortable around her peers (other than Matthew) or teachers. It has been depicted largely as an internal struggle. It may have helped to show her in class with everyone debating world politics, oppression, etc. 

Perhaps we will see it now since she is in college but I would have liked to see the journey that brought her to the present. Yes, we have not seen her doing any independent research about world politics. She asks Mom and Dad questions in that nervous voice and does little beyond that to form an opinion. How much does she really know about the business of spying? Is she aware that murder and honeytraps are part of the job? So far, this show has not given me sufficient reasons to accept why Paige would follow Mom down this path. 

 

To me it seems like the whole "I can't have a normal life" thing comes from her drama over having to lie. In her church group we rarely heard about actual relationships with other kids, but I think the idea was that she preferred feeling part of the group with Pastor Tim as the center. She had friends because they were connected through their shared belief in God/saving the world. Her original anger over feeling left out at home became more self-righteous with the church group preaching honesty etc. She used to announce that she wasn't a liar a lot. That, it seems to me, is supposed to be the thing that gives her an excuse to say she's cut off from a normal life. She can't share herself completely with people because she has to keep the secret. As she explained to Philip, her romance with Matthew was her attempt to try out a normal life--she used to have a crush on him and now he liked her. But it just made her feel worse, so that's it for her. She's unique in her isolation. Nobody can understand her because of her burden.

Heh. Maybe she's even still demanding their attention, really. They "ruined her" like Pastor Tim said, so they broke her, they bought her. No matter how much she loves doing it, I'm sure she'll blame her parents for her choices if she feels like it at some point. 

But all that is just stuff I'm trying to pull together from what we've seen, because you're right, she really has rarely strayed from being little Elizabeth. Henry's social life, even though it's on the fringes, has been presented as much more realistic, imo. He used to mention actual interactions with friends like they meant something. When he got interested in Stan he just thought Stan was cool. He thought Matthew was cool. Then he moved out of that phase and was heavily into a social life with kids his age. Paige has pretty much only ever been interested in parental figures. Either she was begging to be her parents' friend or begging to be Pastor Tim's friend. 

And another thing that just struck me is that Paige told Pastor Tim all her problems and wanted him to give her answers. We absolutely never see Pastor Tim share anything personal with Paige that isn't specifically chosen to be part of his mentoring/youth pastoring. He's only ever an authority figure, perfect or flawed. His personal life is off-limits to her except as defined by him (like having her babysit). 

With Henry and Stan, there's a little mentoring because Stan's older and got more experience, but that's different. Henry tells Stan stuff he wants to tell him, but he holds a lot back at his own discretion. Then there's that scene last season where Stan actually shares something significant with Henry about not trusting anyone. He's not treating him inappropriately and laying adult problems on him, but he obviously understands/respects Henry enough to think that he'll get what Stan is telling him, you know? He's not teaching him, he's talking to him as an individual kid he knows. I don't know exactly what I think the significance there is, but it does again seem to hint at Henry being a kid with a lot of sides to his personality while Paige is just constantly seeking guidance and reassurance. And in fact, Henry seemed more genuinely interested in Stan the person in that moment than Paige ever seemed with Matthew, in whom she sometimes seemed to be interested only as a springboard to focus on her own thoughts.

Edited February 21, 2018 by sistermagpie

[Umbelina]

I don't see ANY correlations, except contrived ones, and the fact that Paige and Elizabeth both have vaginas and long brown hair. 

Elizabeth was raised in a war torn country, deprived of some basic needs.  Her father was a deserter and her mother hated him for bringing shame on the family.  At a very young age she was recruited into tough KGB training, and also raped.  She learned fluent English and routinely kills people.  Elizabeth kept her mouth shut and did her duty to her country..  For Elizabeth it's all about ideals,and she will suffer and endure whatever she must for those.

Paige was extremely privileged even by American standards, and far and above the average Soviet citizen even in good times.  She has two parents, good schools, and clothes and anything she wants to eat, and vacations, etc.   She's whiny and erratic (the church thing, the hitchhiking) and she is far from mature, she's not even smart enough to read up on the USSR after finding out her parents spy.  She betrayed her parents the first chance she got, and she's betraying her country now.  She has NO loyalty to anything, parents, church, or country.  It's all about Paige ALL the time for Paige. 

Don't TELL me writers and actress, SHOW me. 

 

Major fail.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

She betrayed her parents the first chance she got, and she's betraying her country now.  She has NO loyalty to anything, parents, church, or country.  It's all about Paige ALL the time for Paige. 

This part's really important because presumably they want us to see Paige as showing some sort of impressive character by doing this. Sure we know that Elizabeth always claims that "The Cause" is international, but you can't separate it from the individual countries involved and they never have before. Of course Elizabeth doesn't see the USA as a country worth being loyal to at all. Plus she probably sees Paige as some honorary Russian or something.

But Paige really is more as you're describing her, not really loyal to anybody and really not seeming to even understand the stakes of disloyalty. She felt justified in telling Pastor Tim about her parents (Paige herself said it was her parents' fault for putting her in that position), she probably thinks she should be able to work for the USSR because it's "right." Even the time she told on her parents the guy wound up protecting them.

A big part of Elizabeth's commitment is fear. She grew up in a recently invaded country where disloyalty was the worst thing one could have. She experienced the shame of her father's death, her mother telling her that patriotic memorials were *not* for him. She lived in a country where she was encouraged to inform on anyone who seemed disloyal. We know she's done it herself and the consequences of that would be real for her. Paige has grown up in a country where she can protest freely and express any opinion she wants. If she has fear when she's out spying with Mom I suspect it's more on the level of a middle class white girl buying pot for the first time.

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

Don't TELL me writers and actress, SHOW me.

This best summarizes my feelings about Paige's character development. I haven't seen anything to indicate that she is smart or mature or quick-thinking...all traits that would be important for a junior spy. As a parent, I watch in horror as P&E moved their child down a path that, to me, will end in disaster and disappointment. It seems to completely disregard the type of person that Paige is portrayed to be: insecure, confused, lonely. It also seems manipulative and, in the long run, cruel.

As I said in a previous post, I believe that the Paige-as-Spy story line is much more about Elizabeth and what she is willing to sacrifice for the cause. We have been given little reason to believe that Paige would be a successful spy. Elizabeth was unable to control/influence Phillip. His conscience - and his love for her - made him doubt their purpose. Instead, Elizabeth now views Paige as someone that can carry on their commitment. 

Meanwhile, I'm not sure that Paige could walk a dog without complications.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

As I said in a previous post, I believe that the Paige-as-Spy story line is much more about Elizabeth and what she is willing to sacrifice for the cause. We have been given little reason to believe that Paige would be a successful spy. Elizabeth was unable to control/influence Phillip. His conscience - and his love for her - made him doubt their purpose. Instead, Elizabeth now views Paige as someone that can carry on their commitment. 

To me it seems like she wants it both ways. On one hand she's giving her daughter to the Cause, just as she was given, just as she believes she should. Otoh, having Paige in the Cause means that Elizabeth has Paige by her side. She gets the mother/daughter relationship she always wanted where she's not sent away, she's praised and admired and there's not even any conflict between the Cause and the parenting because they're the same thing. She ignores all the ways it would be bad for Paige and how Paige isn't like her just as she ignores so many other things in her work.

It all seems like it should lead to disaster. There's been so many crossroads where Elizabeth confidently marched everybody in the direction they're going, winning every conflict with Philip on the issue (defection, running back to the USSR, retiring to the USSR, not telling Paige, not recruiting Paige). It seems like a cop out to never have a pay off to her tunnel vision, especially given the tiny moments where reality creeps in (with Young-hee and Betty).

Edited February 22, 2018 by sistermagpie

[VCRTracking]

It does seem to be a no win situation. If they show Paige to be incompetent and useless viewers will hate her even more. If they show her to be actually good agent(which I think is believable after 3 years), fans will roll their eyes and call her a "Mary Sue".

I because they weren't able to have viewers really empathize with her in the beginning. They just trusted viewers would because she was a 13 year old girl. They didn't realize people HATE kids on adult shows.

Edited February 24, 2018 by VCRTracking

[sistermagpie]

29 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

It does seem to be a no win situation. If they show Paige to be incompetent and useless viewers will hate her even more. If they show her to be actually good agent(which I think is believable after 3 years), fans will roll their eyes and call her a "Mary Sue".

TBF, I doubt they intend to show her as either. I think Elizabeth is just beginning to train her in the basics of watching out for herself, surveillance etc. She hasn't actually become an agent in the 3 years since we saw her. She's starting this kind of training. Sometimes she'll handle something well and get praised, sometimes she'll do something wrong and Elizabeth will yell at her like a rough coach and Paige will sad face. The plan is for Paige to become Martha with a much much better job, so Elizabeth presumably wouldn't want to be putting her into situations where she'd get into trouble before that could happen. (Although that would hilarious if that happened.)

[jrlr]

Paige has been consistently portrayed as book-capable but life-stupid, without a curious or original thought in her head.  She glommed onto religion for identity, now she's glomming onto an identity as a spy for a country she really has no relation to at all - especially since she only recently learned the truth about her parents and their agenda.  Given that plus the fact that the actress is utterly bland and monotonous, I can't see how this will work without more suspension of disbelief than this series has ever required (and it has required quite a bit).

BTW, do P&E remember that they have another kid?  Where is Henry - who would make a much, much better and more interesting junior spy than Paige - supposed to be during all of this?  

[Umbelina]

I don't think people hate ALL kids in adult shows.

I loved Sally in Mad Men, which was beyond doubt an adult show.  I still love all her scenes.

It depends on the directing, writing, and acting.  In The Americans?  NONE worked for Paige.  Not one.  I can't remember ever  liking her, although I did like Henry quite a bit.  He was by far the more natural actor, and I believed his scenes.  I loved Kimmy too, and she had a difficult role, but she didn't bore me silly either. 

There have been plenty of amazing child actors who worked with adults, although the best performances were probably in movies rather than TV.

Could a more skilled an interesting actress have pulled off this role, in spite of the iffy writing?  Yes.  Most child actors work with adults by the way, and many have worked in dramas.  Had this role been filled by a young Anna Paquin, Jodi Foster, Jenifer Lawrence, Dakota Fanning, Drew Barrymore, hell, even Emma Watson?  I would probably not spent most of the time cringing at eyebrows or watching either OTT acting or underplaying to the point of falling asleep.

I don't understand this casting at all.  I DO think it could also be horrific direction and scripts that would take a stellar actress to be even slightly interesting or believable.

[sistermagpie]

14 minutes ago, jrlr said:

Paige has been consistently portrayed as book-capable but life-stupid, without a curious or original thought in her head.

One of the weirdest quotes I read about this season referred to Paige as still being "curious and intelligent." Which were like the last two things I would imagine leading to her deciding to work for the USSR in 1987 as an American kid. I guess they mean she's still curious about every single thing about her mother and becoming like her and just intelligent enough to follow her mother's instructions? Paige's intelligence and curiosity pretty much all went into working out that her parents were up to something. All outside research disappeared as soon as she learned the truth. She only even picked up Marx because Pastor Tim mistakenly thought Elizabeth was following it by coming to the food bank with Paige. Her only pushback upon reading it was that he didn't like religion much.

Henry's intelligence and curiosity is more consistent. We've seen him go through lots of phases of interest where he gave himself a little expertise on things on his own, and when he turned that interest toward school he effortlessly rose to the top. Early on, in the first season, Paige was the one who occasionally would say something about learning about the USSR in school. She had a teacher who had her writing a paper on how the Soviets cheated on arms control and I believe she once casually told Henry that Poland was "part of Russia." (I think Elizabeth asked if it was that same teacher who told her that.)

[SusanSunflower]

What sort of life awaits Paige, unless the Centre can play matchmaker and make her a match.  I guess that's why we needed an off-stage 3 years, however, when William's wife was sent back to Russia, he was crushingly lonely in part because he could not deal with the normal getting-to-know-you chit-chat sociability required to have a social life.

Paige (and every 15 year old) is in need of social-life experience which she should be getting NOW in high school -- dating, doing things with school friends and activities that reflect her interests and/or aspirations ... even working for a political or social cause -- nada.  Let her go to the local dojo for karate lessons, to develop a crush on her her instructor or (the alpha male among students_ only to discover that all "mentors" are not "Pastor Ted" and some are quite willing to cross those line ... blah blah blah

Phillip and Elizabeth "had" each other long before they even liked or knew each other and they had a (cover) life to construct and inhabit, ... and in fairly short order, they had kids to parent and other parents to interact with, for better or worse, like them or not.  Paige seems destined for a life of alienation, just acting like a cog in her parent's spy machine. 

We'll see how much autonomy she's been granted since we've seen her last and what she's (hopefully) seized ...  she was a virgin last we saw her ... is she still?  if not, are the circumstances of that "dangerous intimacy"  relevant?  

 

Time to take wing grasshopper Paige ... 

[sistermagpie]

21 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

What sort of life awaits Paige, unless the Centre can play matchmaker and make her a match.  I guess that's why we needed an off-stage 3 years, however, when William's wife was sent back to Russia, he was crushingly lonely in part because he could not deal with the normal getting-to-know-you chit-chat sociability required to have a social life.

And Paige is just a US citizen spying for the USSR. She's not an Illegal at all (that's the whole reason they want her). The Centre didn't find partners for Charles or Gregory or Martha or Hans or whoever  (though there was a degree of romance with P&E with most of them--faked in 2 out of the 3 for manipulative purposes.) I would imagine Paige would be expected to just live her life herself. She can spend her life alone with a dozen cats for all they care, I'd imagine. Maybe part of her conflict will be that in college she actually starts to realize there's something valuable in having friendships outside your mom and interests beyond saving the world in some vague way.

Elizabeth, it seems, herself never had much of a social life outside the cause. She met Gregory through a job that had her going out in disguise and meeting people to recruit them--she wasn't locked into a true identity with a security clearance job to protect. She wasn't really planning a life with romance and a family. She didn't even want a partner at first, it seems. Certainly didn't want children. She's come to value her partner especially, according to what she said to Tuan, but she maybe just imagines herself providing all that or Paige, maybe with Philip's help.

Edited February 26, 2018 by sistermagpie

[White Sheep]

Phillip & Paige Fight.  

Season 6 Promo Trailer 

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/cSxLa

https://imgur.com/gallery/iTZNA

[Chaos Theory]

On 2/25/2018 at 12:34 PM, sistermagpie said:

And Paige is just a US citizen spying for the USSR. She's not an Illegal at all (that's the whole reason they want her). The Centre didn't find partners for Charles or Gregory or Martha or Hans or whoever  (though there was a degree of romance with P&E with most of them--faked in 2 out of the 3 for manipulative purposes.) I would imagine Paige would be expected to just live her life herself. She can spend her life alone with a dozen cats for all they care, I'd imagine. Maybe part of her conflict will be that in college she actually starts to realize there's something valuable in having friendships outside your mom and interests beyond saving the world in some vague way.

Elizabeth, it seems, herself never had much of a social life outside the cause. She met Gregory through a job that had her going out in disguise and meeting people to recruit them--she wasn't locked into a true identity with a security clearance job to protect. She wasn't really planning a life with romance and a family. She didn't even want a partner at first, it seems. Certainly didn't want children. She's come to value her partner especially, according to what she said to Tuan, but she maybe just imagines herself providing all that or Paige, maybe with Philip's help.

 

More likely “asked” to marry an up and coming Politician.   Sneak her in the ground floor to a future President.  Nancy to the next Ronald Reagan.  

Edited March 13, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[sistermagpie]

48 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

More likely “asked” to marry an up and coming Politician.   I man to sneak her in the ground floor to a future President.  Nancy to the next Ronald Reagan.  

LOL! What a slap in the face. Turns out Paige's American citizenship isn't worth that much at all if she isn't capable of getting a job with security clearance herself so can only aspire to be some Republican wife picking up gossip and eavesdropping on her husband. 

[crgirl412]

On 2/9/2016 at 2:00 PM, crgirl412 said:

Those would be interesting story lines!!  If they moved to Canada would the show be called The Canadians?  ;)     

There is a parody/political satire on Amazon called The Canadians.  It's funny!!  

[SlovakPrincess]

I think Paige went off the rails when the show decided that P and E would simply blurt out the truth to Paige one night.   Before then, Paige was poking around in the laundry room and increasingly suspicious of her parents -- and we looked forward to the day when she might discover the truth herself (and thereby justify the label of being "curious and intelligent).  She also had that incident with hitch hiking and beer drinking, which served to show that she might rebel one day.

 Since P and E told her the truth, Paige has been pretty boring.  Maybe that makes sense - of course she would feel isolated and depressed as she processed it.  But it hasn't been super interesting to watch.  Other than the short-lived relationship with Matthew, she barely interacts with other teens, ever, so  we don't even see any of the innocent American teen / college life Paige is going to have to sacrifice if she goes down her parents' path ... she's already so isolated.  

We got one good dramatic plot out of P and E simply telling Paige the truth (when she confessed to Pastor Tim and we thought P and E might murder him), but that ultimately got tedious.  We got an almost good dramatic twist when she was briefly dating Stan's son ...  but that went nowhere, too.  

I really hope she has meaningful interactions with other people next season, and not just targeting them as a spy.   

[sistermagpie]

16 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

 Other than the short-lived relationship with Matthew, she barely interacts with other teens, ever, so  we don't even see any of the innocent American teen / college life Paige is going to have to sacrifice if she goes down her parents' path ... she's already so isolated.  

It seems like she's always been like her mother in that she never really felt comfortable in regular life anyway. When she joined the youth group it wasn't a social life to her meaning other teens, it was the place where she was the Youth Pastor's pet. (And a place to bond with her mom.) He's the one she wanted to follow around. She prefers authority figures to peers. We don't know completely about Elizabeth's life but all flashbacks are about her mother and then authority figures like Zhukov. Paige seemed to consider her relationship with Matthew (outside of the part where she was spying for her parents unasked) to be a wash and proof normal relationships weren't for her. Remember as soon as she got into the church she dropped her other school activities. Even when she first joined the church she described it as some antidote to the "craziness" of her perfectly stable, ordered middle-class life.

The only time Elizabeth allowed herself a friendship that wasn't all about the cause was with Young-hee, and that was, of course, ultimately about the cause. It's a marked contrast to, say, those few times Philip and Sandra Beeman were allowed to talk and clicked surprisingly well. I remember when they were talking about Jared living with the neighbors back in season 2 Elizabeth noted that they didn't have any friends with whom their kids would stay besides the Beemans (Philip's connection) and he muttered "Isn't that how you wanted it?" It seems like she feels better with people who not only ostensibly care about her, but care about her because she's earning their approval.

[Umbelina]

That's another thing that makes Paige more of a plot point than a developed "whole" character.  What relatively normal teenage girl in the eighties doesn't have a best friend?  Or a group of girlfriends?  OR, isn't thinking about boys, or going on dates, or you know, basic biology of been interested in sex during those years, or at least romance?  It's biological. 

Stan's son was another plot point, and showed a tiny bit of that, but no crushes?  No flirting with other boys or having her heart broken, or talking on the phone for hours to friends?

 

Oh please...

[sistermagpie]

29 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

That's another thing that makes Paige more of a plot point than a developed "whole" character.  What relatively normal teenage girl in the eighties doesn't have a best friend?  Or a group of girlfriends?  OR, isn't thinking about boys, or going on dates, or you know, basic biology of been interested in sex during those years, or at least romance?  It's biological. 

Yeah, to me it's less believable when they try to pretend she's supposed to be normal because a person who's a social outcast has more reason to be drawn to movements that create the illusion of a social life. Like there was a point where whenever she'd mention a friend I appreciated her youth group because I could just assume whatever somebody said was shared with the group and not with Paige herself. (And it fit because the stuff she was talking about always sounded like it came out of group.) The youth group provided the illusion of a social group without any kids taking an interest in her personally.

The thing is, if you were imagining somebody who thought it was a good idea to do this in 1987, it would make sense if they were a social outcast. It's too bad they didn't just embrace that as she grew up instead of obviously wanting to make her seem like her cause made her cool, like Elizabeth. Most of the Americans who have worked for the USSR in the story have been decidedly not cool.

It's not like they don't know the difference. Henry is consistently shown as being social, engaged with pop culture and what's going on at his school. His friendship with Stan was also about curiosity about social things and people. He also always dressed better. (Even during the whole season where Paige was supposed to have stopped caring what she looked like as evidenced by her washerwoman ponytail she never dressed down.)

[SusanSunflower]

Paige's interest in "doing good" and helping the poor at the Church seemed to hinge on Pastor Tim's approval, even as she smiled and was saintly to others in the vicinity.  I'm not certain that she ever realized that Tim's interest and pride in her was because of the shine that reflected back on him.  

 

Paige met that vivacious curly headed girl on the bus and -- I thought at the time -- wanted some of "what she had" and followed her to Pastor Tim's door (she then sadly disappeared except for odd moments when she seems to have been channeled into -- the insecure but growing up and getting better -- Kimmie).  Three years is a long time in a teenager's life.  We can only hope that Paige has had a "growth spurt" into some kind of boundary-setting selfhood.  (I still eyeroll over Paige telling Pastor Tim about the family secret and everyone being still alive) 

[SusanSunflower]

Funny, but I just realized I've seen no speculation (that I remember) about a scenario in which Paige is revealed to be a spy -- independent of P&E -- bringing the FBI and others snoops (including Stan) to the Jennings' door.   While most academics were more concerned (even paranoid) about FBI on-campus investigating supporters of liberal causes,  Paige's snooping for the KGB might result in an inquiry by an already FBI-complicit professor or student as to who this new kid was working for.