Whedonverse Mafia

[Lady Calypso]

I agree with Silver. I'm not a fan of lynching on the first day, only because we have very little information to go on and it is a huge risk to lose possibly two heroes rather than just one. I'm going to look through the story again and see what pops out at me, though. I am in the middle of exams, but I finish next Tuesday. So if I am quieter this week, that's why.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Lady Calypso

[JayKay]

Whoa, I wasn't expecting to lynch on Day 1 and now I'm up for DL? I'm not even done making suggestions. If you're not villainous then let's talk about this, CP, because I'm certainly not. We've still got a little less than a day.

edited for spelling

Edited April 21, 2015 by JayKay

[Athena]

I'm not big on first day lynches either. There is a lot we don't know yet. Hmm.

[Guest]

Whoa, I wasn't expecting to lynch on Day 1 and now I'm up for DL? I'm not even done making suggestions. If you're not villainous then let's talk about this, CP, because I'm certainty not. We've still got a little less than a day.

 

Sure thing.  I'm always willing to take a look at the criminal mind.  (hee)

[Drogo]

The beauty of the voting is that if no one else agrees, the DL just doesn't happen.  I can see a legitimately TJ-style clue in the piece JayKay pointed out, so I'm down to take action.  And when another clue comes up that I see validity in, I'll jump on that DL too.

 

I've only played one game before, and we didn't DL on Day 1.  And then dragons started flying around and making shish-kabobs out of wise dwarves and brave knights. 

[Meredith Quill]

The beauty of the voting is that if no one else agrees, the DL just doesn't happen.  I can see a legitimately TJ-style clue in the piece JayKay pointed out, so I'm down to take action.  And when another clue comes up that I see validity in, I'll jump on that DL too.

 

I've only played one game before, and we didn't DL on Day 1.  And then dragons started flying around and making shish-kabobs out of wise dwarves and brave knights. 

 

I do like the clue....but....see reasons in my post above, plus:

 

1. If we judge too soon and get it wrong then we lynch a hero, that means we're actually helping the villains which would annoy me more.
2. Whether we lynch today or not, the villains will still kill someone tonight (and everynight unless they're protected or whatever).
3. There are hero investigator(s) who can help us out come day 2.
4. That clue isn't going anywhere and I prefer to wait, watch & evaluate more, we can always use that clue at a later point if the gameplay evidence backs it up.

 

As you correctly say Drogo, people will vote or not as they choose, I'm not trying to convince anyone, just giving my own personal reasons for not wanting to act rashly.

[Oinky Boinky]

So what are the powers of the town:

DL

Protector/physician

Investigator

Day 1 night one the physician has not one clue who to protect. He may protect scum by mistake

Day 1 night one the investigator investigates a random player with no idea who to target. Day 2 who does she tell? Zero gain for the town.

Day 1 DL. A pretty wild shot but 40 % chance of hitting scum.

Day 2 gameplay - town will read the story,hunt for a clue with a good chance of missing it again. Will DL someone because they have to but this vote is pretty much another shot in the dark.

Makes sense? No. Some of you are just in a no lynch day 1 camp for 'a' reaason. Day 1 DL is the town using the only power it has knowing it is a risk but no riskier than the day 2 DL you are all going to do.

[Machiabelly]

A non vote is not the same as non contributing.

As a 50 year old man I am not one bit ashamed to say that the Princess Bride is my favourite movie of all time.

[Lisin]

I have to admit. I really think the CuriousParker clue is just "punny" enough that I'm really tempted to vote, however as a hero I'm also tempted to wait and not kill one of my fellow heroes if I'm wrong. I'm so torn! I will be back later with more. I'm working on a more solid outline for characters/alignments as well. 

[Oinky Boinky]

A non vote is not the same as non contributing.

As a 50 year old man I am not one bit ashamed to say that the Princess Bride is my favourite movie of all time.

No of course it isn't. I'm talking about non posters. They don't help at all and it is a good way to lay low if the town lets them do that.

It's a great strategy to avoid the early DL or NK (unlike what I do). Games I have been in they are early targets for those two reasons. We know it as flying under the radar. 

 

Understand about the PB my ex husband and my two daughters watched it so many times I know I have imbued the entire movie from the atmosphere in my house. I am all set for PB mafia. 

[egavasc]

As someone who doesn't often post (because I am both busy and frequently have nothing useful to add to the conversation) I just want to chime in. Not trying to fly under the radar, just don't know if I have anything useful at this time. I get the argument for lynching day one and I get the argument for not lynching day one. TJ's clues are notoriously difficult and I am just as bad at finding clues as I am coming up with them. And there isn't a lot of gameplay to go on so far. But it's not like there's much more visible game play in day 2 either. Just the results of what happened at night when the town has little power (although who knows what powers are at play!). The CuriousParker clue looks good but also potentially too easy. So I am unsure how to best proceed from here.

[Oinky Boinky]

Egavasc said...

And there isn't a lot of gameplay to go on so far. But it's not like there's much more visible game play in day 2 either. Just the results of what happened at night when the town has little power (although who knows what powers are at play!). The CuriousParker clue looks good but also potentially too easy. So I am unsure how to best proceed from here.

 

Exactly Egavasc. We will be in the same amount of dark on day 2 and no one will not DL on day 2.

(for whoever above expressed the double negative love)

[Drogo]

I've never voted No DL and today's not the day I start. ;)

FWIW, more than half of the GoT Day-1-No-DL votes ended up being villains.

[halgia]

The CuriousParker clue seems possibly legit, but I am definitely wary of helping out the villains by killing some rando with little evidence... I'll probably jump on if it seems like it'll go through, but let's keep looking while we still have time methinks.

[BizBuzz]

FWIW, more than half of the GoT Day-1-No-DL votes ended up being villains.

 

Well Drogo, you just made it harder for any hero to start a  NO-DL on Day 1 ... you pretty much crucified anyone that wants to start a NO-DL on Day 1 ...

 

Hmmmm...

[SVNBob]

FWIW, more than half of the GoT Day-1-No-DL votes ended up being villains.

Considering about half the players in the GoT game were villains (4 in my House, 3 in the other, and 2 for the SK team) I'm not surprised by that fact in the slightest.

I wouldn't use that game for calculations. It's a statistical outlier.

The "clue" for CP does seem like a TJ clue, but I'm also not convinced just yet.

[JayKay]

I don't really want to vote today and had no plans to, so I threw out some halfbaked thoughts on clues that could point toward Caprice, TMunz and CuriousParker but only one of them decided that I'm an evil-doer who must die. When I'm a Hero I prefer to put all of my cards on the table just to generate discussion and get some reaction or reassurance. In this case, I'm alarmed by the reaction but I'd still be surprised if it turns out that she is evil. I'd feel better about it if someone were to look into CuriousParker first.

[Drogo]

Considering about half the players in the GoT game were villains (4 in my House, 3 in the other, and 2 for the SK team) I'm not surprised by that fact in the slightest.

I wouldn't use that game for calculations. It's a statistical outlier.

The "clue" for CP does seem like a TJ clue, but I'm also not convinced just yet.

There's a few shows in this one though.. I would guess a ton of villains, like GoT.

& Biz I'm not crucifying anyone. I just said No DL's a popular day 1 action because villains join in... they like watching us waste our time.

To be clear: Someone starting a No DL right now shouldn't be assumed villainous.

[Meredith Quill]

Not sure I understand why the villains would choose No DL, if it isn't one of them, surely they'd be all for it as it would despatch a hero FOC?

[Drogo]

Not sure I understand why the villains would choose No DL, if it isn't one of them, surely they'd be all for it as it would despatch a hero FOC?

There are recruitables with powers out there. (I was one in the last game.)

[Meredith Quill]

There are recruitables with powers out there. (I was one in the last game.)

 

Meh, they don't always exist in every game, and the Day 1 No Lynch in GoT was voted for by 6 heroes & 5 villains, so a pretty even split.

[Drogo]

*Baelish was a recruitable, not a Hero, and Joffrey (Jay) was in the middle of voting No DL when the vote ended.

As far as this game and recruitables I can only go by the show watchers' since I've never seen any- and a few were of the opinion that we have recruitable characters.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Drogo

[Meredith Quill]

*Baelish was a recruitable, not a Hero, and Joffrey (Jay) was in the middle of voting No DL when the vote ended.

As far as this game and recruitables I can only go by the show watchers' since I've never seen any- and a few were of the opinion that we have recruitable characters.

 

Technically LF was neutral so neither a hero nor a villain and the final result as in actually voted, was 5 heroes, 5 villains, 1 neutral.

 

If I were a villain I'd be all over a DL day 1, the chances of hitting any possible recruitables are far less as a villain than hitting a hero as a fellow hero, I'd like those odds. If it's allowed (not sure) would any of the villains from that game care to enlighten us why they chose a No DL? TJ & Stacey can't for obvious reasons, which leaves Lisin, caprice & TMunz.

[The Crazed Spruce]

I'm totally down with a Princess Bride mafia game. That may well be the perfect movie. It's got something for everyone, and is entertaining as hell.

I tend to suck at finding clues on the best of days, and this is really no exception. The parking thing seems as good a clue as any, but I'm still nervous about DLing someone on the first day. But then again, I'm not really sure I buy her defence....

Hey, has anyone heard from photo fox? I'd like to hear what she has to say.

[Oinky Boinky]

Technically LF was neutral so neither a hero or a villain and the final result as in actually voted, was 5 heroes, 5 villains, 1 neutral 

 

If I were a villain I'd be all over a DL day 1, the chances of hitting any possible recruitables are far less as a villain than hitting a hero as a fellow hero, I'd like those odds. If it's allowed (not sure) would any of the villains from that game care to enlighten us why they chose a No DL? TJ & Stacey can't for obvious reasons, which leaves Lisin, caprice & TMunz.

Totally. I put forward my rationale against no DL days because it is what I believe truthfully from my heart. However I switched my vote, wasted my second day vote and was fairly gleeful that there was a no DL. I knew one of my team was not going to be DL'd and putting the town down a day was just fine by me. 

 

I will not be as gleeful with a no DL this day. 

[Lisin]

The reason I voted for No DL on Day 1 as a villain was because photo fox had targeted my team member (Hanged Man) with a clue and to vote with HM against PF would have possibly showed my hand as being on his team, so even though we had initially decided "Yay! We'll all vote to DL jessied112" since that DL had been started I voted to No DL in hopes of ending Day ASAP and saving HM. Does that make sense? We definitely were happy about a DL on Day 1 which is part of why I'm now hesitant to do it since I'm a hero this time around. Day 1 of the GoT game had several voting options and No DL seemed the safest only because the other DL garnering any real interest was against my teammate. 

[Drogo]

we had initially decided "Yay! We'll all vote to DL jessied112" since that DL had been started

The first vote cast in the last game was to DL jessied112 with no information other than the Day story.

Who cast that vote? Curious Parker- who now feels that starting a Day1 DL is villainous. ;)

[Lisin]

Ooooooh. That's interesting. 

[Jesse]

I'm convinced.

 

3 to DL CuriousParker (Oinky Boinky, Drogo, Jesse) 7 to get down to it
1 to DL JayKay (CuriousParker) 9 to take the offensive like we've been practicing

[Oinky Boinky]

I just had a thought (yes just one) who or what makes you damp without touching you?

 

HVAC does. Egavasc comes closest. What are your thoughts.

 

I am going to reread the story and let my brain ramble a bit. 

[egavasc]

I'm really not sure I follow that logic at all. Also that would be the worst superpower. "Oh no! I'm wet! I'm hysterical and I'm wet! And now I have to go home so you win Mr. Damp Man!" is how I see that playing out.

[TMunz]

would any of the villains from that game care to enlighten us why they chose a No DL? TJ & Stacey can't for obvious reasons, which leaves Lisin, caprice & TMunz.

 

Because I thought voting for a DL on the first day might look too eager/bloodthirsty. 

 

I cannot wait for the PB game. Have fun storming the castle!

[TJtrack99]

MOD ANNOUNCEMENT!!

 

~12 hours remain in the Day. stacey and I have talked about it, and we've decided to set a numerical limit in order for there to be an extension on a Day. So if at least 50% of players have voted, Day will get extended. For Day 1, this extension would be 12 hours (until 11:15 PM on Wednesday).

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Day, already in progress.

[photo fox]

Hey, has anyone heard from photo fox? I'd like to hear what she has to say.

Sorry, Spruce, RL has been kicking my ass lately, and honestly I'm still a little mentally exhausted from the GoT round! :-/

The CP vote makes as much sense to me as any, but I really haven't taken time to comb for clues. Personally, I'm never against a Day One lynch, assuming there's a reason. I understand being cautious, but sometimes I think we default to a no-DL without much consideration. Casting some shade on Day One and watching how people react can be as valuable as clues.

[halgia]

Since I don't know if I'll be able to stop in before nightfall:

4 to DL CuriousParker (Oinky Boinky, Drogo, Jesse, Dougal) 6 to break out Mr. Pointy

1 to DL JayKay (CuriousParker) 9 to take the offensive like we've been practicing

[SVNBob]

I'm totally down with a Princess Bride mafia game. That may well be the perfect movie. It's got something for everyone, and is entertaining as hell.

My exact thoughts, on both game and movie.

I'm still nervous about DLing someone on the first day.

Of course you are, Spruce. If someone is snuffed in the first round, it's been tending to be you.

[Guest]

The first vote cast in the last game was to DL jessied112 with no information other than the Day story.

Who cast that vote? Curious Parker- who now feels that starting a Day1 DL is villainous. ;)

 

I never said that a Day 1 DL was villainous.  I'm all for a Day 1 DL when it's against an actual villain!  

[BizBuzz]

I am a hero ... and as such, my job is to beat the bad guys.

 

However, I am not down with all the posturing ... it could lead to a fellow hero being DL'd.  I am not into the possibility of making a mistake on the first day ... the odds are against us.  The first day for me is all about giving myself food for thought. 

 

Call me badass, I am starting a No Lynch:

 

1 to No Lynch (BizBuzz) 9 to keep the body count as low as I can

4 to DL CuriousParker (Oinky Boinky, Drogo, Jesse, Dougal) 6 to break out Mr. Pointy
1 to DL JayKay (CuriousParker) 9 to take the offensive like we've been practicing

[MarkHB]

I'll be honest: I still really haven't had time to read the D1 story.... I worked Monday and yesterday, went to Boston for the Batman v Superman IMAX trailer screening Monday night, and we had company last night.  So I am slacking.  However since it was called out in discussion I looked at this:

 

"about a man somehow making her hair damp without touching her.” “What does that-”

 

and I am of the mind that either it was put in just to troll those of us who spend too much time on the Dirty Mind Sectional (think it over... it's not hard) or else it was to ensure that the story got a PG-13 rating.  In any event, I am leaning away from it being a clue., particularly in relation to the parking thing.

 

Regarding the voting, while I am fine with the No DL option I am not a fan of specifically voting for one when there's an express time limit; it artificially cuts off discussion.  So this vote is strictly strategic:

 

1 to No DL (BizBuzz) 9 to keep the body count as low as I can

5 to DL CuriousParker (Oinky Boinky, Drogo, Jesse, Dougal, MarkHB) 5 to go all Duke Crocker on her
1 to DL JayKay (CuriousParker) 9 to take the offensive like we've been practicing

[Drogo]

I don't think so, JayKay.  I think we're looking at a genius and it seems to me that the rest of you have your list of villainous suspects now.

 

2 to DL CuriousParker (Oinky Boinky, Drogo) 8 to skip over the kissing parts

1 to DL JayKay (CuriousParker) 9 to take the offensive like we've been practicing

 

 

The first vote cast in the last game was to DL jessied112 with no information other than the Day story.

Who cast that vote? Curious Parker- who now feels that starting a Day1 DL is villainous. ;)

 

 

I never said that a Day 1 DL was villainous.  I'm all for a Day 1 DL when it's against an actual villain!  

 

But your Day 1 DL wasn't for an actual villain- it was for Jon Snow, a Hero.  And now you're all for a Day 1 DL against JayKay, because he found the question/parking clue.  So maybe you're all for a Day 1 DL, unless you're the target?  Sorry, but true. :)

 

After the DL was started, by OinkyBoinky (!) - you started a DL on JayKay (who originally found the clue, and will always be Joffrey to me no matter how many games we play)- and in the same post you quoted JayKay, myself, and SilverStormm and say that everyone else had their list of villainous suspects now.  My point is...

 

If we attack and villainize players who bring up good clues, as I believe JayKay did - then no one will bring up good clues.  And we'll all just be sitting here and TJ/stacey's awesome stories about characters I don't know at all will be wasted.  So everyone should vote exactly how they want to vote, and/or start DL's or No DL's that they feel strongly about.  

[BizBuzz]

If we attack and villainize players who bring up good clues, as I believe JayKay did - then no one will bring up good clues.

This is interesting ... something I might have to consider for future strategy.

[Guest]

But your Day 1 DL wasn't for an actual villain- it was for Jon Snow, a Hero.  And now you're all for a Day 1 DL against JayKay, because he found the question/parking clue.  So maybe you're all for a Day 1 DL, unless you're the target?  Sorry, but true. :)

 

After the DL was started, by OinkyBoinky (!) - you started a DL on JayKay (who originally found the clue, and will always be Joffrey to me no matter how many games we play)- and in the same post you quoted JayKay, myself, and SilverStormm and say that everyone else had their list of villainous suspects now.  My point is...

 

If we attack and villainize players who bring up good clues, as I believe JayKay did - then no one will bring up good clues.  And we'll all just be sitting here and TJ/stacey's awesome stories about characters I don't know at all will be wasted.  So everyone should vote exactly how they want to vote, and/or start DL's or No DL's that they feel strongly about.  

 

So maybe you're all for a Day 1 DL, unless you're the target?  Sorry, but true. :)  Oh that's fair.  And?  TRUE! HA!

 

On to your other points, I was also a hero in GOT.  My reasoning behind it was the clue sounded good to me and because Lady Calypso aka Jessied112 was posting more than she did in other games. 

 

I would argue that the clue brought up by JayKay is not only a poor clue but no clue at all.  I added all of you guys because you all jumped on it so quickly.  That, to me, looked like a team jumping on something to prevent being looked at themselves.

 

At any rate, if I do get DL'd, people will see that I'm one of the good guys.

[MarkHB]

On to your other points, I was also a hero in GOT.  My reasoning behind it was the clue sounded good to me and because Lady Calypso aka Jessied112 was posting more than she did in other games.

 

(Italics added). I do have to have a certain amount of sympathy for someone who gets pilloried for just showing up.

[caprice]

So what are the powers of the town:

DL

Protector/physician

Investigator

Day 1 night one the physician has not one clue who to protect. He may protect scum by mistake

Day 1 night one the investigator investigates a random player with no idea who to target. Day 2 who does she tell? Zero gain for the town.

Day 1 DL. A pretty wild shot but 40 % chance of hitting scum.

Day 2 gameplay - town will read the story,hunt for a clue with a good chance of missing it again. Will DL someone because they have to but this vote is pretty much another shot in the dark.

Makes sense? No. Some of you are just in a no lynch day 1 camp for 'a' reaason. Day 1 DL is the town using the only power it has knowing it is a risk but no riskier than the day 2 DL you are all going to do.

To the best of my memory, we've played exactly one game (when we were still at TWoP) where the mod stated her clue at the end of the story. That's probably the only game that had daily lynches. Now, now all the clues were correctly read, but still.... With this game, if we DL or not on the first day, at least we've got people TALKING on Day One. If we have a protector, which I'm sure we do, that person will get an idea of who to help based on all this discussion, as will the investigator(s).

 

As to how the investigator will share information, that depends on who was investigated and when/if that person becomes targeted for DL.

 

I've never voted No DL and today's not the day I start. ;)

FWIW, more than half of the GoT Day-1-No-DL votes ended up being villains.

As has been mentioned, I wouldn't hold onto that for too long. We normally only have one team of villains.

 

I don't really want to vote today and had no plans to, so I threw out some halfbaked thoughts on clues that could point toward Caprice, TMunz and CuriousParker but only one of them decided that I'm an evil-doer who must die. When I'm a Hero I prefer to put all of my cards on the table just to generate discussion and get some reaction or reassurance. In this case, I'm alarmed by the reaction but I'd still be surprised if it turns out that she is evil. I'd feel better about it if someone were to look into CuriousParker first.

Even being one of the people being tentatively suggested, I appreciate that you were trying to start discussion.

 

Technically LF was neutral so neither a hero nor a villain and the final result as in actually voted, was 5 heroes, 5 villains, 1 neutral.

 

If I were a villain I'd be all over a DL day 1, the chances of hitting any possible recruitables are far less as a villain than hitting a hero as a fellow hero, I'd like those odds. If it's allowed (not sure) would any of the villains from that game care to enlighten us why they chose a No DL? TJ & Stacey can't for obvious reasons, which leaves Lisin, caprice & TMunz.

Sorry, I'm dealing with neighborhood politics which are bringing on another damn migraine. I'll chime in when I can.

 

I also have a history of never being able to find one of TJ's clues. He once gave me the power of knowing the paragraph his clue was in... and I still failed miserably.

 

I just had a thought (yes just one) who or what makes you damp without touching you?

 

HVAC does. Egavasc comes closest. What are your thoughts.

 

I am going to reread the story and let my brain ramble a bit. 

Wow. There's so much I could say to that, but I'll leave it at this: If your HVAC is making you damp, your HVAC is broken.

[Lisin]

"about a man somehow making her hair damp without touching her.” “What does that-”

 

and I am of the mind that either it was put in just to troll those of us who spend too much time on the Dirty Mind Sectional (think it over... it's not hard) or else it was to ensure that the story got a PG-13 rating.  In any event, I am leaning away from it being a clue., particularly in relation to the parking thing.

 

 

 

That's where my brain went with that one too... seemed very "Faith like" to be "dirty" and it made my brain go exactly where you're insinuating it would. Because apparently I'm part of the DMS. 

 

So, because the reasoning behind a DL on day 1 makes a teeny bit more sense to me than a No DL on day 1 (when we have what feels like a credible clue I mean) insomuch as we're never really "sure" of these things and because I have a meeting that will begin right around the time Night is called if I do nothing I'm going to hope for the best.

 

1 to No DL (BizBuzz) 9 to keep the body count as low as I can

6 to DL CuriousParker (Oinky Boinky, Drogo, Jesse, Dougal, MarkHB, Lisin) 4 to squeeze my eyes shut and hope we're on the right track

1 to DL JayKay (CuriousParker) 9 to take the offensive like we've been practicing

[Drogo]

 

As has been mentioned, I wouldn't hold onto that for too long. We normally only have one team of villains.

 

I blame caprice for inviting me to start playing Mafia in what appears to have been the most against-the-norm, villains-running-amok game y'all ever had.  ;) 

[caprice]

That's where my brain went with that one too... seemed very "Faith like" to be "dirty" and it made my brain go exactly where you're insinuating it would. Because apparently I'm part of the DMS. 

Not that I ever watched Dollhouse, but wasn't that one of Dushku's lines as seen in a trailer? "Is my hair damp?"

 

I blame caprice for inviting me to start playing Mafia in what appears to have been the most against-the-norm, villains-running-amok game y'all ever had.  ;) 

"Blame?" As I recall, you enjoyed yourself. ;)

[The Crazed Spruce]

I can't guarantee if I'll be able to check back before time runs out, so I'm casting my vote now. And although I usually prefer a no-DL in the first round, I really can't see a valid reason for not bowing to the majority (and I'm not really buying CP's argument), so....

1 to No DL (BizBuzz) 9 to twiddle our thumbs

7 to DL CuriousParker (Oinky Boinky, Drogo, Jesse, Dougal, MarkHB, Lisin, Spruce) 3 to get something done

1 to DL JayKay (CuriousParker) 9 to try something else

[Oinky Boinky]

Great discussion going here.

 

Not sure if I understood the new math from the mod which will determine day end. 

 

It appears the only non poster so far is TMunz. Hey where are you? 

 

Some people have impressed me, I will support those people, you know who you are. 

 

I play a much more aggressive form of this game than you all. My history is playing in RPG forums where it is mostly young men with testosterone. None of them knew I was the sex and age to be their grandmother. 

 

It puts a target on my back. I am going to say my role in this game is not that spectacular but if someone wants to protect me tonight it might be a good choice.  Thanks

[Drogo]

Not that I ever watched Dollhouse, but wasn't that one of Dushku's lines as seen in a trailer? "Is my hair damp?"

 

"Blame?" As I recall, you enjoyed yourself. ;)

 

I don't know about HVAC (I'd call a repairman, Oinky) but I knew a few guys in high school who thought making a girl's hair damp was their superpower.  (Any room on that sectional?)

 

I definitely did enjoy myself.  :)  I still am.  But multiple villain factions, a SK with allies, the Jaime/Cersei death connection... that game was twisty and taught me to think twisty thoughts to root out Ze Bad Guyze.